Jonny Manziel documentary on Netflix is great

[Just in Atlanta]

2 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I came away from this wondering how the Browns ended up drafting Baker Mayfield over Allen. 
 

Arent Manziel and Mayfield the same player?  Texas boys, good at playground football, a bit short, ocassional alcohol issues?  Surprised that they didn’t learn their lesson with Manziel. 
 

but really glad they didn’t draft Allen17. 

The Browns have had 17 starting QBs since they drafted Manziel in 2014.

 

What a shitshow of an org. But to be fair, there were a number Bills fans who wanted Mayfield over Allen. 

[Shortchaz]

27 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

The Browns have had 17 starting QBs since they drafted Manziel in 2014.

 

What a shitshow of an org. But to be fair, there were a number Bills fans who wanted Mayfield over Allen. 

And now we know why the Browns draft the way they do. The owner wants the nearly guaranteed jersey sales $ of someone like mayfield. 
 

shrewd but seems myopic (unless it keeps repeating) 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Shortchaz

[Cray51]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Every owner has done this.  He's just really bad at it.

I dont disagree

27 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

The Browns have had 17 starting QBs since they drafted Manziel in 2014.

 

What a shitshow of an org. But to be fair, there were a number Bills fans who wanted Mayfield over Allen. 

Mayfield had incredibly poor support coming into the league.  And Freddie Kitchens was an awful head coach. 

 

Not trying to bring up my relationships with internals in the Browns org at that time, but they claim if the Browns continued with Gregg Williams as their HC instead of having Freddie Kitchens, Mayfield would be a better QB then what he is today.

[Buffalo716]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

LOL...Georgia probably had 25 guys on the field who have been or will be selected in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft, including at least 10 first round picks...and they had a QB at least as good as Houston's.   The fact that Jonny Football flamed out in the Factory of Sadness, because he wanted nothing to do with pro football, has absolutely zero to do with any hypothetical Georgia v. Texans matchup.

I never said manziel had anything to do with the matchup... Someone in the thread ... Used an example and said why a college team could never beat a pro team... Which they can't 

 

And I responded by using last year's worst NFL team... Texans. . and used the best college team Georgia.. and gave my prediction 

 

And at the end of the day that Georgia team has 25 NFL players ... And most won't be impact guys in the NFL...some will flame out and a few will be really good 

 

The Texans have 52 NFL players at the end of the day no matter if they were in last place...

 

I was just agreeing with the poster who said the best college team can't beat an NFL team... Protecting the QB would be a real issue 

 

Ohio State almost beat Georgia... And stroud is gonna really struggle in the NFL ... And he didn't struggle against Georgias defense

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Matt_In_NH]

56 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

The Browns have had 17 starting QBs since they drafted Manziel in 2014.

 

What a shitshow of an org. But to be fair, there were a number Bills fans who wanted Mayfield over Allen. 

There were many more who thought we picked the "wrong Josh".

[NoSaint]

29 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

I dont disagree

Mayfield had incredibly poor support coming into the league.  And Freddie Kitchens was an awful head coach. 

 

Not trying to bring up my relationships with internals in the Browns org at that time, but they claim if the Browns continued with Gregg Williams as their HC instead of having Freddie Kitchens, Mayfield would be a better QB then what he is today.

disclaimer: Gregg’s not good either and baker wouldn’t be their starter long term under him either

[Royale with Cheese]

4 hours ago, mannc said:

 Maybe on a team like the Bills, but the 2022 Texans had a very thin roster.  I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm guessing a high percentage of their rostered players last year were not even drafted. 

 

At any rate, I wasn't suggesting Georgia would beat the Texans on a regular basis, only that they would be able to hold their own against lower-rung NFL teams and wouldn't be drubbed 60-7, or whatever it was you said.  Georgia would not be over-matched physically, that's for sure.    

No its not just the Bills.  The entire leagues second and third day draft picks don’t start.  
 

Yes, it be absolutely one sided.

In the last two draft classes from UGA, how many are regular starters or contributors?  Like 3.

 

Stetson Bennett is one of the most decorated college QB’s ever.  He’s not good enough to start in the NFL but is good enough to beat an NFL team with college talent?

 

Why was Johnny Manziel not able to dominate the NFL like he did in college?  

[MikePJ76]

Everyone came off as horrible people.  Texas A&M more than any individual, which is not surprising at all.  

 

The guy is a disaster and needs help.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Cray51 said:

I dont disagree

Mayfield had incredibly poor support coming into the league.  And Freddie Kitchens was an awful head coach. 

 

Not trying to bring up my relationships with internals in the Browns org at that time, but they claim if the Browns continued with Gregg Williams as their HC instead of having Freddie Kitchens, Mayfield would be a better QB then what he is today.

lol Gregg Williams…

[Jauronimo]

Kingsbury comes off looking like a total dbag which really shocked me. Poor Johnny had no one reigning him.  Everybody knew what was up and no one intervened. At his own admission, it probably wouldn't have changed his course.  

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Kingsbury comes off looking like a total dbag which really shocked me. Poor Johnny had no one reigning him.  Everybody knew what was up and no one intervened. At his own admission, it probably wouldn't have changed his course.  

How did Kingsbury come off looking bad?  I thought he was one of the few who came out of it just fine…

[DC Greg]

On 8/11/2023 at 4:19 PM, TheDuke55 said:

I thought the documentary was good. Definitely changed my initial impression of him a bit. Unfortunately, this will forever be the image in my head when I hear his name. 

 

"Welcome to the League, punk." - Kyle Williams

[Jauronimo]

Just now, mannc said:

How did Kingsbury come off looking bad?  I thought he was one of the few who came out of it just fine…

Kingsbury admitted that they knew Manziel was off the rails and he didnt care so long as he performed on the field.  He used his one year of enabling Manziel to get a head coaching spot.  I believe he said something to the effect of "we all knew we were going to get rich off of him".

 

Kingsbury could read the phone book and come off as a dbag.  Hes a natural.

[mannc]

9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Kingsbury admitted that they knew Manziel was off the rails and he didnt care so long as he performed on the field.  He used his one year of enabling Manziel to get a head coaching spot.  I believe he said something to the effect of "we all knew we were going to get rich off of him".

 

Kingsbury could read the phone book and come off as a dbag.  Hes a natural.

 Kingsbury was powerless to do anything to rein in Manziel.  Even Kevin Sumlin was powerless.  (It is interesting that Sumlin was not interviewed for the documentary.)

Edited August 15, 2023 by mannc

[AmishRifle]

Just watched it.  Agree with the negative sentiments regarding Kingsbury.  You kind of pick up on expectation from the parents of having a program that would discipline Manziel, but disappointed that it never happened.  

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Kingsbury comes off looking like a total dbag which really shocked me. Poor Johnny had no one reigning him.  Everybody knew what was up and no one intervened. At his own admission, it probably wouldn't have changed his course.  

 

KK got them million dollar abs and tang stacked many feet high.  he speaks freely...not fearful of our judgement

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Kingsbury comes off looking like a total dbag which really shocked me. Poor Johnny had no one reigning him.  Everybody knew what was up and no one intervened. At his own admission, it probably wouldn't have changed his course.  

 

We had an interesting experience with our son at rehab. It was a “nice one” in Minneapolis called Hazelden. One weekend they brought in some young folks who had been there a while and had at least tasted sobriety. I’ll never forget one kid, top of his class and a 4 or 5 star football recruit with a full ride to Penn State. Maybe partially a plant, but he seemed incredibly sincere and said basically everybody takes too much credit and too much blame for what we kids do. We are going to do what we are going to do. Sure, we listen some, but then we do what we are going to do. 

 

I don’t know how much support Johnny had, or what the quality of that support was. I do know that sometimes there is just stuff that nobody else has control over.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

We had an interesting experience with our son at rehab. It was a “nice one” in Minneapolis called Hazelden. One weekend they brought in some young folks who had been there a while and had at least tasted sobriety. I’ll never forget one kid, top of his class and a 4 or 5 star football recruit with a full ride to Penn State. Maybe partially a plant, but he seemed incredibly sincere and said basically everybody takes too much credit and too much blame for what we kids do. We are going to do what we are going to do. Sure, we listen some, but then we do what we are going to do. 

 

I don’t know how much support Johnny had, or what the quality of that support was. I do know that sometimes there is just stuff that nobody else has control over.

it’s a weird spot to put a guy. 
 

at the crossroads of a million dollar opportunity that you’ve worked years for… do you bench the kid hoping he actually changes and likely tank your own success, or just ride the ride for 18 months and cash in?

 

at a distance it’s easy to try to save the kid. At the highest level of competition and with tiny windows with them, most accept the meat grinder. Whether it’s the mental health issue, physical health, academic accountability, etc… most programs extract what they can and move to the next guy 

[Goin Breakdown]

I think the documentary was mainly for the purpose of getting his story out there "rise and fall" kind of a thing. That's is totally fine. I really don't think it was very intentional to make awareness of mental health. They kind of just slid that in there almost like an excuse. I'm not fully convinced that this country as a whole really cares a ton about the subject. May was mental heath awareness month. I didn't even know until around the end. It's really not brought to light like other issues perhaps because it doesn't push politics or make money idk. My heart goes out to those who struggle for sure. I hope the best for Johnny and his future. 

[Coach Tuesday]

20 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Kingsbury admitted that they knew Manziel was off the rails and he didnt care so long as he performed on the field.  He used his one year of enabling Manziel to get a head coaching spot.  I believe he said something to the effect of "we all knew we were going to get rich off of him".

 

Kingsbury could read the phone book and come off as a dbag.  Hes a natural.

That was certainly my takeaway too - after watching that I now understand why Kingsbury was totally unfit to be an NFL head coach, or at least the coach of a team with another undisciplined athlete at QB.  
 

Also, lots of great commentary in this thread, the reactions are really interesting, but no one mentioned the fantastic choice for opening credits music:

 

I mean they had me sucked in with this song, hook line and sinker.  What a track from the GOAT.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Coach Tuesday

[cle23]

On 8/14/2023 at 4:47 PM, NoSaint said:

disclaimer: Gregg’s not good either and baker wouldn’t be their starter long term under him either

 

I disagree.  Mayfield was never going to be a top tier QB, but he could have been middle of the road, decent starter.  Hell, he's going to be a starter again this year.  Constant change in offense and coaches isn't good for anyone.  

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

I disagree.  Mayfield was never going to be a top tier QB, but he could have been middle of the road, decent starter.  Hell, he's going to be a starter again this year.  Constant change in offense and coaches isn't good for anyone.  

middle of the road decent starter as in QB14-18 range or like fringe top 10 guy?

 

cause I could buy the lower being his likely upside and that’s a guy you try to replace.

 

I’ll also say the comment was specifically referencing in Greggggg which I think is still a situation that would limit his upside too as that’s not a dream offensive coaching setup for him. No way gregggg was bringing elite offensive talent into the building.

Edited August 16, 2023 by NoSaint

[cle23]

47 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

middle of the road decent starter as in QB14-18 range or like fringe top 10 guy?

 

cause I could buy the lower being his likely upside and that’s a guy you try to replace.

 

I’ll also say the comment was specifically referencing in Greggggg which I think is still a situation that would limit his upside too as that’s not a dream offensive coaching setup for him. No way gregggg was bringing elite offensive talent into the building.

 

I'd say 12-18 range, with any given year jumping to 8ish. Not consistently,  but if he could limit turnovers.