Rewatching the Week 3 Dolphins game

[Charles Romes]

Anything to increase the number of stops on Mahomes/Burrow to more than 1 per half. 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson were the starting safeties iirc

 

Tough to blame that on Frazier

Yeah.  Most teams won't bring a blitz with Waddle and Hill on 3rd and 22.  Especially when we had that rookie CB practice squad player in who's name escapes me.  Just terrible execution from an inexperienced secondary.  If I remember that play correctly the Dolphins only had three WR's running down the field as their TE chipped Miller and their RB stayed in to pass protect.  Three against eight shouldn't lead to a conversion on 3rd and 22.

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson were the starting safeties iirc

 

Tough to blame that on Frazier

Fraizer's defenses consistently played poorly when the playoffs came around. His defensive scheme just wasn't good for upper tier teams. 

3 hours ago, mrags said:

Really hope your right. For all Bills fans. If your wrong we’ll finish the season just like the last few and be extremely disappointed . 

Yep and most fans will still think McD walks on water. 

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

It's one thing to say "attacking defense," it's another to have the personnel to run it effectively w/o undue risks.  

 

Do we have the pass-rushers to be able to do that w/o having to blitz regularly.  Remains to be seen, but unless we get some consistent pass-rushers, it remains to be seen.  No one should be thinking that Miller will return to what he was at 34 and coming off that injury, and who knows when.  Rousseau was very inconsistent and came out strong in his first four games last season but then disappeared.  Floyd comes in at 31 which should help.  

 

I'm not sure we have the talent to attack as such effectively.  

 

 

Add on the defense looks to be weaker at the LB position with Edmunds gone and a young unproven replacement. 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

You blitz on third long specifically so those long routes don’t develop. It’s better to try to make tackles on a dump off from pressure than it is to allow a qb to sit back there and take his time to make his reads and calculate his shot. 

The Ravens tried that the week before that game and got burned multiple times in the 4th quarter.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, buffblue said:

I acknowledged that in the OP. When your secondary is severely shorthanded and facing a team with arguably the fastest pair of WR's but a weak OL in a 3rd and 22 spot, that situation is screaming to send the house

 

See I totally disagree with that. Which is fine, it's just a different way of looking at football and at playcalling. I would not send the house when I have a team down 3rd and 22 and I know I have two vastly inexperienced safeties. I'd try and protect them. Especially when the Bills defense is NOt a good blitzing defense. You go back and think about back breaking plays over the past two seasons and so many of them come when the Bills have tried to blitz. 

 

The playcall didn't work, so it's easy to second guess it, and I'm not saying he got the exact call right, but I am saying I think blitzing there would have been a mistake. 

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, mrags said:

Really hope you’re right. But it’s hard to argue the fact that Frazier was the DC for years. Even after the .13 debacle they stuck with him. There’s more proof out there that McDermott was not only accepting of it, that it’s his in the first place. We’ve all been over this before though and it won’t go anywhere except multiple people arguing with each other. Fear not, just about every thread right now will be shelved in just 2 days as camp starts. 

You can have the best playbook in the freaking game but if you are not using it right... what does it matter? Frazier was not using it right. How much of a hand McD had in the playbook is meaningless compared to play by play calling. There is a reason MCD was well respected on the defensive side of the ball. I trust that.

[mrags]

10 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

You can have the best playbook in the freaking game but if you are not using it right... what does it matter? Frazier was not using it right. How much of a hand McD had in the playbook is meaningless compared to play by play calling. There is a reason MCD was well respected on the defensive side of the ball. I trust that.

Well. I guess you can say he was a terrible delegator then. Because if I was a well respected defensive minded coach and my DC continually screwed up play calling and I didn’t fire him, the failure would be on me would it not? End of the day he held on to Frazier way too long if Frazier was the problem. All fingers point to McDermott being perfectly fine with what Frazier was doing. Screwed up a huge lead in the Texans game. walked all over against the Chiefs in the first playoff loss to them. .13 seconds. Than this debacle against the Bengals.  End of the day it’s McDermotts team. 

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well. I guess you can say he was a terrible delegator then. Because if I was a well respected defensive minded coach and my DC continually screwed up play calling and I didn’t fire him, the failure would be on me would it not? End of the day he held on to Frazier way too long if Frazier was the problem. All fingers point to McDermott being perfectly fine with what Frazier was doing. Screwed up a huge lead in the Texans game. walked all over against the Chiefs in the first playoff loss to them. .13 seconds. Than this debacle against the Bengals.  End of the day it’s McDermotts team. 

Now this narrative i 100% agree with.  HC is accountable for everything. I get that. 

[buffblue]

For those who feel sending an extra rusher would have been unwise due to inexperience, would you at least agree that sending 3 was a poor decision in hindsight and completely futile? 

Edited July 24, 2023 by buffblue

[Bill from NYC]

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson were the starting safeties iirc

 

Tough to blame that on Frazier

I agree 100% with @mrrags. It isn't very tough to blame McDermott.

[boyst]

mcdermott is more aggressive than frazier was and his habits and tendencies are proof. in carolina he never had stellar DL and was effective.

[buffblue]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

mcdermott is more aggressive than frazier was and his habits and tendencies are proof. in carolina he never had stellar DL and was effective.

That's what gives me a bit of hope. I followed the Panthers pretty closely here in Charlotte during McD's tenure and they were never as timid as the defense has been run in Buffalo

[SectionC3]

7 hours ago, mrags said:

Really hope you’re right. But it’s hard to argue the fact that Frazier was the DC for years. Even after the .13 debacle they stuck with him. There’s more proof out there that McDermott was not only accepting of it, that it’s his in the first place. We’ve all been over this before though and it won’t go anywhere except multiple people arguing with each other. Fear not, just about every thread right now will be shelved in just 2 days as camp starts. 

The more I think about it, the more I think McD stuck with Frazier after 13 seconds because he didn't want to have three new coordinators last year.  Daboll left by choice, Farwell more or less had to go, and then there was Frazier. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I totally disagree with that. Which is fine, it's just a different way of looking at football and at playcalling. I would not send the house when I have a team down 3rd and 22 and I know I have two vastly inexperienced safeties. I'd try and protect them. Especially when the Bills defense is NOt a good blitzing defense. You go back and think about back breaking plays over the past two seasons and so many of them come when the Bills have tried to blitz. 

 

The playcall didn't work, so it's easy to second guess it, and I'm not saying he got the exact call right, but I am saying I think blitzing there would have been a mistake. 

I get that train of thought. It certainly is valid. 

 

My thinking is you just shouldn't allow a QB all day to throw in that situation. Pressure the QB and jam the WRs isn't a terrible strategy. However, it's not what the Bills do often or excell at. I suspect this is why teams are more successful on their and long. I remember joking with my brother saying I would have have the Bills D in a third and short vs long. 

 

The real issue is two fold here. As stated the Bills are not an effective blitzing team. Also, they lack a consistent pass rush even in 3rd and long situations. Both weaknesses are not optimal. It's really a compliment to the coaches that statistically they are a top defense with such deficiencies. 

 

I'm certainly hoping McD's D will improve on third and long. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

JaQuan Johnson got caught flat footed. It’s Waddle, what was he thinking? You can’t run with Waddle Johnson.

 

Sending 4 wouldn’t have made any difference. They played Cover 2. Quarters should’ve been the coverage. Not sure why they played cover 2 there. It’s like they guessed Miami would just throw a short pass for YAC.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I totally disagree with that. Which is fine, it's just a different way of looking at football and at playcalling. I would not send the house when I have a team down 3rd and 22 and I know I have two vastly inexperienced safeties. I'd try and protect them. Especially when the Bills defense is NOt a good blitzing defense. You go back and think about back breaking plays over the past two seasons and so many of them come when the Bills have tried to blitz. 

 

The playcall didn't work, so it's easy to second guess it, and I'm not saying he got the exact call right, but I am saying I think blitzing there would have been a mistake. 

Not to mention the QB has a noodle arm and can't get the ball anywhere the sticks in that scenario fast.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, buffblue said:

This is correct but I will gladly let Tre go one on one with Hill this season, especially with Hyde/Poyer back in the fold. I don't think White is anywhere near washed. I also think the additions of Ford, Rapp, and Floyd will give the Bills a better ability to keep fresh and match up against different personnel groupings

Lol. Tre even in his prime could not handle Hill one on one. Not even a knock on Tre. There are so few CBs that can play man coverage at an elite level.  Tre was an elite zone corner. He is not and never was an elite man cover corner. Unfortunately I'm afraid Sauce may be one of those guys and Diggs will have to face him twice a year.

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, buffblue said:

I think we might if we employ a versatile rush scheme that doesn't rely on a single guy to put heat on the qb. 

 

Also, one thing not to overlook is the possibility of the MLB pressure. As good as Edmunds could be he was a relatively ineffective blitzer. I think one of the replacements could be utilized in a highly aggressive role

 

Well yeah, of course, I'm not even sure we have that ability to do it effectively.  

 

And blitzing the MLB, a good OC on the other side, and seasoned QBs of which we play a lot this season, can pick that apart too.  

 

We'll see soon.  

 

LB unit seems so weak, weakest that I can recall.  

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by PBF81

[mabden]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Hamlin and Jaquan Johnson were the starting safeties iirc

 

Tough to blame that on Frazier

 

That's why you help out your inexperienced and not as talented backfield with a pass rush.

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Add on the defense looks to be weaker at the LB position with Edmunds gone and a young unproven replacement. 

 

MUCH weaker.

 

IMO this is going to be a serious lesson in how the grass isn't always greener ...

 

... and Beane's management aside.  

 

 

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Yeah.  Most teams won't bring a blitz with Waddle and Hill on 3rd and 22.  Especially when we had that rookie CB practice squad player in who's name escapes me.  Just terrible execution from an inexperienced secondary.  If I remember that play correctly the Dolphins only had three WR's running down the field as their TE chipped Miller and their RB stayed in to pass protect.  Three against eight shouldn't lead to a conversion on 3rd and 22.

 

A lot of things shouldn't be happening against a regular season #1 or #2 ranked Defenses in the playoffs.