Rewatching the Week 3 Dolphins game

[PrimeTime101]

28 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I don't think it's the wrong example at all.  Someone should have been fired after that, OR McD should have come clean that it was truly his fault instead of "accepting responsibility" while implying that it was someone else's, thereby hanging Frazier out to dry like he did.  

 

But to pick on the coach whose entire starting unit was unavailable to start in 20 of 32 starts between them, while still performing well with backups, to me is unconscionable.  It also reinforces the point made.  

 

Your point completely ignores that and the original point that I made.  It doesn't matter that McD gave him a shot, he's also given a bunch of coaches that haven't anteed up shots, but they were from Carolina with him and they weren't fired.  

 

And I mean really, what, it was Salgado's coaching that caused us to lose?  LOL  That's a ridiculous proposition.  

 

IMO McD doesn't have what it takes to get rid of coaches that aren't performing.  

 

This season he has most of his former staff at Carolina under him, he's successfully transition their coaching staff from 2011-2016 to Buffalo for the most part.  Count me in among those that think that this is closer to not working out for him than it is for working out for him, but this season will certainly tell.  

 

At least it seems to be a growing mindset that should we underperform again that there won't be anywhere for him to assess blame besides himself.  ... which will be refreshing if he can't perform up to standards and the talent that he has.  

 

 

 

By implication you see that the Safeties coach was more responsible than any other for our poor playoffs performance.  I have no idea how that's rational.  

 

Otherwise, see my post above.  

 

 

How the heck do you know how good of a job a coach did? Answer that and catch up with me. 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Salgado was only safeties coach in 2022. He was a defensive quality control guy for 3 years and then a nickel coach in 2020 and 2021. The safeties struggled last year. Health and inexperience was an issue but the playoff loss was Jordan Poyer's (who was injured in fairness) worst game as a Bill. I think it is very legit to say the safeties coach last year did a poor job.

 

And he cannot claim to have had the "best unit on the team" before that.

1000%. This is when one bad narrative tries backing up another bad narrative. Again.. You I? the General Fan? Has no clue how good of a job any coach is really doing outside of HC, OC, DC. 

[YattaOkasan]

29 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I don't think it's the wrong example at all.  Someone should have been fired after that, OR McD should have come clean that it was truly his fault instead of "accepting responsibility" while implying that it was someone else's, thereby hanging Frazier out to dry like he did.  

 

But to pick on the coach whose entire starting unit was unavailable to start in 20 of 32 starts between them, while still performing well with backups, to me is unconscionable.  It also reinforces the point made.  

 

Your point completely ignores that and the original point that I made.  It doesn't matter that McD gave him a shot, he's also given a bunch of coaches that haven't anteed up shots, but they were from Carolina with him and they weren't fired.  

 

And I mean really, what, it was Salgado's coaching that caused us to lose?  LOL  That's a ridiculous proposition.  

 

IMO McD doesn't have what it takes to get rid of coaches that aren't performing.  

 

This season he has most of his former staff at Carolina under him, he's successfully transition their coaching staff from 2011-2016 to Buffalo for the most part.  Count me in among those that think that this is closer to not working out for him than it is for working out for him, but this season will certainly tell.  

 

At least it seems to be a growing mindset that should we underperform again that there won't be anywhere for him to assess blame besides himself.  ... which will be refreshing if he can't perform up to standards and the talent that he has.  

 

 

 

By implication you see that the Safeties coach was more responsible than any other for our poor playoffs performance.  I have no idea how that's rational.  

 

Otherwise, see my post above.  

 

 

So your point is he was fired (unfairly in your opinion) and thats throwing him under the bus.  I dont see McD pointing the finger at him or anything.  They let go a coach they had put time and effort into developing so you just conclude that its to throw him under the bus?  Will note your opinion for how the season works out.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

How the heck do you know how good of a job a coach did? Answer that and catch up with me. 

1000%. This is when one bad narrative tries backing up another bad narrative. Again.. You I? the General Fan? Has no clue how good of a job any coach is really doing outside of HC, OC, DC. 

speaking of bad narratives lol

 

your argument that the DC can be fairly judged by the 'general fan' but the positional coaches are just completely inscrutable is quite something

[SectionC3]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Tua threw over the Ravens secondary when they blitzed in a very similar scenario the week before.

I watched that game.  He can’t get it anywhere with velocity. 

[PrimeTime101]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

speaking of bad narratives lol

 

your argument that the DC can be fairly judged by the 'general fan' but the positional coaches are just completely inscrutable is quite something

now you are putting words in my mouth. Never said a DC can be fairly judged. All the fan knows is play calling. Way more happening then the general fan knows in the background. My point was only to show we can tell slightly by those positions in coaching more than any other

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

So your point is he was fired (unfairly in your opinion) and thats throwing him under the bus.  I dont see McD pointing the finger at him or anything.  They let go a coach they had put time and effort into developing so you just conclude that its to throw him under the bus?  Will note your opinion for how the season works out.

He wanted Mcdermott to fire himself.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Not directly threw him under the bus but personally didn't appreciate how he labelled the Diggs situation 'very concerning' then left Allen to take all the media arrows and eventually ended up pretending like nothing happened

Weak-  not directly is right.  It’s so right that you shouldn’t even have posted it.  

 

zero relevance to the question that you replied to. 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I watched that game.  He can’t get it anywhere with velocity. 

 

But he got the ball where it needed to be. Nobody is confusing Tua's arm for a cannon.

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

speaking of bad narratives lol

 

your argument that the DC can be fairly judged by the 'general fan' but the positional coaches are just completely inscrutable is quite something

You’re one of the brightest football minds on this board.  Let’s hear your analysis on Salgado performance in 2022

[GoBills808]

Just now, NewEra said:

Weak-  not directly is right.  It’s so right that you shouldn’t even have posted it.  

 

zero relevance to the question that you replied to. 

Weak is getting offended every time some relevant bit of criticism comes McDermott's away

 

time to get some thicker skin because it's only going to increase w every year they don't win a championship

[NewEra]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Weak is getting offended every time some relevant bit of criticism comes McDermott's away

 

time to get some thicker skin because it's only going to increase w every year they don't win a championship

He asked for examples of when Mcdermott threw people under the bus…… 

 

rather than answer with an example of him NOT throwing someone under the bus, why not answer with examples of him actually throwing someone under the bus.   
 

I’m not saying he did or he didn’t…. I just don’t think your answer makes much sense and proves nothing

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’re one of the brightest football minds on this board.  Let’s hear your analysis on Salgado performance in 2022

I don't claim to be anything of the sort

 

But position coaches are teach technique as much as X&O so delivering a good product w as much turnover at the position as we had last yr due to injury couldn't have been easy task

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't claim to be anything of the sort

 

But position coaches are teach technique as much as X&O so delivering a good product w as much turnover at the position as we had last yr due to injury couldn't have been easy task

I’m claiming you to be.  Reading your posts over the years, I respect your opinion more than 95% of the posters here 
 

I’m not saying his job was an easy task.  It was difficult for sure.  McDermott wasn’t pleased with the job he did, so he fired him.  I don’t believe he fired as a scapegoat.  

regarding this quote: “your argument that the DC can be fairly judged by the 'general fan' but the positional coaches are just completely inscrutable is quite something”:

 

As a general fan- I don’t see how we have much insight on how well the job positional coaches do their jobs other than the play of their unit.  Data and play calling are all testament to how well coordinators do their job.  As a general fan, it’s much easier to formulate an opinion on a coordinator than a positional coach.  You can’t disagree with that.  I agree with primetime.  
 

what do we know about Bobby Babich?  He’s a helluva speaker. Sounds like a future DC. But what do we know about the job he did- other than having two good LBers.  Was he the reason Edmunds improved and Milano was all-pro?   It’s all speculation from a general fan imo.  Where as there is more concrete evidence to support claims regarding coordinators 

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I remember 2018 when the defense got off to a horrible start under Frazier and McDermott started calling the defense in week 3 vs. the Vikes (Josh's hurdle over Barr game).  I think McDermott's gonna do it again in 2023.

[JerseyBills]

16 hours ago, buffblue said:

Mostly known for the insane heat the game featured, I decided to take a closer look as the 2023 season fast approaches. There has been much talk about McD taking over the defensive playcalling this year and how he will hopefully improve on Frazier's soft tendencies. I don't know how this will turn out, but the Week 3 game against the Dolphins revealed yet another example of Leslie playing it conservative in crunch time.

 

The situation: Miami faces a 3rd and 22 from around midfield with the Bills leading by 3 early in the 4th. Buffalo had aggressively stuffed the Dolphins to put them in what should have been a hopeless situation to convert. But rather than continuing to bring the heat against a subpar Miami OL (and with an obviously concussed Tua), Frazier elects to run a 3 man rush and our decimated secondary (missing all 4 nominal starters) gives up an easy bomb to Waddle inside the 5 resulting in the Dolphins taking the lead.

 

We all have our complaints as fans, many of them right and plenty wrong. But one thing I am optimistic about going into the 2023 season is the possibility of the Bills becoming an attacking defense. I'm OK with them giving up more yards and even a few more PPG if we can make more impact plays defensively. With Josh in his prime, we should always have an above average scoring offense. The complementary aspect of the game and making a few more critical, game changing plays each Sunday could pay far more dividends than the what the traditional statistical rankings imply.

Great point. Same happened in the L to Vikings,  even though that was very flukey.. SMH,  just unacceptable 

Edited July 24, 2023 by JerseyBills

[billybrew1]

16 hours ago, buffblue said:

Mostly known for the insane heat the game featured, I decided to take a closer look as the 2023 season fast approaches. There has been much talk about McD taking over the defensive playcalling this year and how he will hopefully improve on Frazier's soft tendencies. I don't know how this will turn out, but the Week 3 game against the Dolphins revealed yet another example of Leslie playing it conservative in crunch time.

 

The situation: Miami faces a 3rd and 22 from around midfield with the Bills leading by 3 early in the 4th. Buffalo had aggressively stuffed the Dolphins to put them in what should have been a hopeless situation to convert. But rather than continuing to bring the heat against a subpar Miami OL (and with an obviously concussed Tua), Frazier elects to run a 3 man rush and our decimated secondary (missing all 4 nominal starters) gives up an easy bomb to Waddle inside the 5 resulting in the Dolphins taking the lead.

 

We all have our complaints as fans, many of them right and plenty wrong. But one thing I am optimistic about going into the 2023 season is the possibility of the Bills becoming an attacking defense. I'm OK with them giving up more yards and even a few more PPG if we can make more impact plays defensively. With Josh in his prime, we should always have an above average scoring offense. The complementary aspect of the game and making a few more critical, game changing plays each Sunday could pay far more dividends than the what the traditional statistical rankings imply.

One huge change is that we’re going to have a third & long defense this year, imho…..

Floyd - Groot - Ed - Von

 

……Rapp - Milano - TJ

 

Tre - Hyde - Poyer - Elam

 

And Really bring all sorts of pressure if needed….

 

Go Bills!

 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Salgado was only safeties coach in 2022. He was a defensive quality control guy for 3 years and then a nickel coach in 2020 and 2021. The safeties struggled last year. Health and inexperience was an issue but the playoff loss was Jordan Poyer's (who was injured in fairness) worst game as a Bill. I think it is very legit to say the safeties coach last year did a poor job.

 

And he cannot claim to have had the "best unit on the team" before that.

 

Love the way you absolutely leapfrog the original argument.  LOL 

 

In essence, the point that I made makes even more sense in that light.   

 

 

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

How the heck do you know how good of a job a coach did? Answer that and catch up with me. 

1000%. This is when one bad narrative tries backing up another bad narrative. Again.. You I? the General Fan? Has no clue how good of a job any coach is really doing outside of HC, OC, DC. 

 

 

You guys seem so eager to be right and win an argument that you continue to shoot yourselves in the foot.  

 

See comment above.  

 

 

2 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

So your point is he was fired (unfairly in your opinion) and thats throwing him under the bus.  I dont see McD pointing the finger at him or anything.  They let go a coach they had put time and effort into developing so you just conclude that its to throw him under the bus?  Will note your opinion for how the season works out.

 

Yes, please, I'd absolutely love to reconvene as the season wears on.  

 

So far McD's proven nothing other than "building a culture."   He can't win when it matters most and on top of that hinders his own team when it matters most.  

 

We'll see how things shake out.  Then we'll see whether or not he throws someone else under the bus.  

 

Let's both bookmark this post and reconvene towards the end of the season.   

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Love the way you absolutely leapfrog the original argument.  LOL 

 

In essence, the point that I made makes even more sense in that light.   

 

 

 

 

You guys seem so eager to be right and win an argument that you continue to shoot yourselves in the foot.  

 

See comment above.  

 

 

 

Yes, please, I'd absolutely love to reconvene as the season wears on.  

 

So far McD's proven nothing other than "building a culture."   He can't win when it matters most and on top of that hinders his own team when it matters most.  

 

We'll see how things shake out.  Then we'll see whether or not he throws someone else under the bus.  

 

Let's both bookmark this post and reconvene towards the end of the season.   

 

 

 

You talk nonsense. You said he scapegoated the safeties coach who "had the best unit on the team during the McDermott era."

 

You haven't got a clue what you are on about. Best if you bow out now. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I’m claiming you to be.  Reading your posts over the years, I respect your opinion more than 95% of the posters here 
 

I’m not saying his job was an easy task.  It was difficult for sure.  McDermott wasn’t pleased with the job he did, so he fired him.  I don’t believe he fired as a scapegoat.  

regarding this quote: “your argument that the DC can be fairly judged by the 'general fan' but the positional coaches are just completely inscrutable is quite something”:

 

As a general fan- I don’t see how we have much insight on how well the job positional coaches do their jobs other than the play of their unit.  Data and play calling are all testament to how well coordinators do their job.  As a general fan, it’s much easier to formulate an opinion on a coordinator than a positional coach.  You can’t disagree with that.  I agree with primetime.  
 

what do we know about Bobby Babich?  He’s a helluva speaker. Sounds like a future DC. But what do we know about the job he did- other than having two good LBers.  Was he the reason Edmunds improved and Milano was all-pro?   It’s all speculation from a general fan imo.  Where as there is more concrete evidence to support claims regarding coordinators 

To clarify- being that I don't know and can only guess as to how different teams design scheme/game plan wrt who has input and who's just implementing the plan on gameday w playcalls, substitutions etc...I think it's easier to make assumptions about who's doing their job and who isn't if you are talking about a coordinator vs a positions coach but not really any more likely to be accurate. imo you'd need to know the decision making hierarchy and I'm pretty sure that varies from team to team, I have no real insight into how the Bills do it so necessarily I don't think it's true that you can credibly judge the OC/DC as opposed to their position coaches

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Love the way you absolutely leapfrog the original argument.  LOL 

 

In essence, the point that I made makes even more sense in that light.   

 

 

 

 

You guys seem so eager to be right and win an argument that you continue to shoot yourselves in the foot.  

 

See comment above.  

 

 

 

Yes, please, I'd absolutely love to reconvene as the season wears on.  

 

So far McD's proven nothing other than "building a culture."   He can't win when it matters most and on top of that hinders his own team when it matters most.  

 

We'll see how things shake out.  Then we'll see whether or not he throws someone else under the bus.  

 

Let's both bookmark this post and reconvene towards the end of the season.   

 

 

Keep digging