McDermott & Beane Extended Through 2027

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I think it would be better for you to say you don't like who the Bills have invested resources in. The Bills have unequivocally spent more money on the offensive line than KC has. They just haven't done it in a way that some prefer. They ranked 3rd in 2020, 5th in 2021, 14th in 2022, and 10th in 2023. KC only spent more in 2022 and it was by 3 million dollars. From 2019 to current, 5 of 12 KC 2nd round or better draft picks were on offense. Buffalo had 4 of 9. Buffalo has drafted more offensive players as a % of draft picks in the sample you gave and spent more on the offensive line. These are not my opinions. So again, I think it's more a matter of who they have went after and how they did it (in most cases more by committee and not WR) vs what areas.   

 

It's not about what I like.

 

The Chiefs have paid TOP DOLLAR for 3 OL from other teams the past 3 offseasons.   Top of the market players, not "the other" Conor McGovern.

 

They've drafted a WR in the second round in 3 of the past 5 drafts....each of the last 2.........and traded 3rd round value to acquire the talented Kadarius Toney........and paid MVS $10M aav to be WR3 for a 3 year run(not a 1 year flyer)...........so they subsequently have a WR corps with higher pedigree overall than the Bills despite the Bills having an elite WR1.    

 

Instead the Bills have kept 6 of their veteran back 7 together with second contracts and paid a bunch of DL.........and taken a lot more half measures to try to "patch" holes on offense.

 

Example?   Where the Chiefs have 2 rookie contract starters on the best interior OL in the league..........the Bills interior OL is considered very suspect but has 3 projected starters on second contracts.   

 

You can try to reverse engineer it all you want but the Chiefs have kept investing bigger chips into their offense right along........the Bills allowed their offensive talent to deteriorate in 2021-2022 and are now playing catch up without much cap flexibility left.      

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's not about what I like.

 

The Chiefs have paid TOP DOLLAR for 3 OL from other teams the past 3 offseasons.   Top of the market players, not "the other" Conor McGovern.

 

They've drafted a WR in the second round in 3 of the past 5 drafts....each of the last 2.........and traded 3rd round value to acquire the talented Kadarius Toney........and paid MVS $10M aav to be WR3 for a 3 year run(not a 1 year flyer)...........so they subsequently have a WR corps with higher pedigree overall than the Bills despite the Bills having an elite WR1.    

 

Instead the Bills have kept 6 of their veteran back 7 together with second contracts and paid a bunch of DL.........and taken a lot more half measures to try to "patch" holes on offense.

 

Example?   Where the Chiefs have 2 rookie contract starters on the best interior OL in the league..........the Bills interior OL is considered very suspect but has 3 projected starters on second contracts.   

 

You can try to reverse engineer it all you want but the Chiefs have kept investing bigger chips into their offense right along........the Bills allowed their offensive talent to deteriorate in 2021-2022 and are now playing catch up without much cap flexibility left.      

We spend more money on the offensive line  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/breakdown/  it's not engineering, it's publicly available data.

 

We drafted 2 more players since 2018 in the 3rd round or better. 

 

If you eliminate the 3rd round, and just go with "premium" picks, we have drafted 5 players each in the 1st and 2nd round.

 

If you eliminate 2018, KC has drafted 1 more player in the 1st and 2nd round. If you eliminate 2018 and 2019, KC has drafted 1 more player. If you eliminate 2018, 2019, and 2020 it's even.  If you eliminate 2019, 2019, 2020, 2021.... get the point? You can't calculate this in a way to make you correct. Even worse, KC has had more "Premium" draft choices. 

 

 

If your argument is KC has used more resources in these areas, the definition of resource can't be your opinion. I would assume if your intent is to say we didn't care enough about it as much as they do, then you would see it in the dollars spent or draft picks used. Neither show up. So as I said, for the 3rd time, your complaint is about how we have used the resources. Not the use of the resources. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

We spend more money on the offensive line  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/breakdown/  it's not engineering, it's publicly available data.

 

We drafted 2 more players since 2018 in the 3rd round or better. 

 

If you eliminate the 3rd round, and just go with "premium" picks, we have drafted 5 players each in the 1st and 2nd round.

 

If you eliminate 2018, KC has drafted 1 more player in the 1st and 2nd round. If you eliminate 2018 and 2019, KC has drafted 1 more player. If you eliminate 2018, 2019, and 2020 it's even.  If you eliminate 2019, 2019, 2020, 2021.... get the point? You can't calculate this in a way to make you correct. Even worse, KC has had more "Premium" draft choices. 

 

 

If your argument is KC has used more resources in these areas, the definition of resource can't be your opinion. I would assume if your intent is to say we didn't care enough about it as much as they do, then you would see it in the dollars spent or draft picks used. Neither show up. So as I said, for the 3rd time, your complaint is about how we have used the resources. Not the use of the resources. 

 

 

I think part of your confusion is that you think the Bills and Chiefs have had equal amounts of capital to invest in their teams since McDermott arrived.

 

That's simply not the case...........the Bills have had much more capital to use..........they've always finished behind the Chiefs so always had earlier original picks.    (Except in 2018 when they OWNED the Chiefs pick after trading them an all-time great kinda' QB in exchange for picks they used on a CB and MLB.   See a pattern there? )

 

And the Bills spent $100M in UFA in 2018(grossly overpaying bad defensive players) and then went into 2019 with the better part of $100M to spend and yet have since spent much farther into the future than a KC team who had been to the playoffs year after year and had just won a SB and subsequently had a lesser budget to make changes with.    

 

It's pretty impressive that you can look at what the Bills have invested in money and first round picks etc. on defense in McDermott's tenure and not see the significant disparity.    The entire starting defense last season was either a 1st round pick or on an expensive veteran contract(or both in Edmunds case).  

 

By comparison, the Chiefs have had a much more balanced approach despite having less assets at their disposal they've been well ahead of the Bills in addressing their offense with quality.   They haven't clung to every defensive player of note and extended their contracts like the Bills have.   They haven't given middling players inexplicable contracts for unrealistic roles on their offensive line like the Bills have.   They haven't just assumed 4th-5th round picks or cheap flyers will be adequate as WR2 and WR3 like the Bills did last season.

 

Now this is not to say that the Chiefs are the gold standard for offensive talent.........they've probably gotten a bit arrogant and I agree with Bill Barnwell at ESPN that they are back half of the league in terms of weapons available on offense.   But part of their tradeoff is that they have a top 3 kinda' OL as well.   And until proven otherwise the Bills are worse at both playmakers and OL than the Chiefs.

Edited June 27, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[Dopey]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

KC is a good organization with a great QB.   So is Buffalo.   The notable differences between the two are how they allocate their assets first and the combination of Reid and Spagnuolo's experience second.    

 

First, they surround Mahomes with better talent than the Bills do,  by investing more into that side of the ball.   Indisputably so.

 

And Reid was the NFL's biggest playoff choker of the 2000's for the first 20 years of his HC career.   In fact, his teams have still been upset in the playoffs 3 times in the last 6 years.   But with the talent at his disposal on offense and Spags SB winning coordinator experience coaching up their relatively modest investments on D,  Reid has been able to focus on fiddling with his play sheet a lot more instead of the game management that he has always struggled with when playing with closer or inferior talent margins on offense.   Winning a SB finally has made him look like a genius and makes people forget him blowing so many playoff games in his career.......including AFC title games at home to NE and Cinci in the last 5 years.   And forget that he was 2 games under .500 in the playoffs after his first 20 years.    

 

I'm not going to argue that the Chiefs aren't going to become a dynasty because winning SB's is how you judge that and they are 1 win away from that distinction.........but they haven't manhandled the competition so let's not get carried away with the praise either.    They won 2 closely contested SB games and got blown out as a prohibitive favorite in that span.    Impressive but hardly the Steel Curtain of the 70's or the Cowboys of the 90's.

 

As far as Allen running the ball 7-8 times per game..........Cam Newton had a 5 year sample too.   He used to bounce back up and laugh after every hit like nothing hurt him.  His career got cut short.      

 

QB's don't take the level of punishment over the long haul that Allen has endured the past couple of seasons and not have it shorten their careers.

 

It's gotta' revert to 2020 level at least........where he can run but can get down and not have to get 6 yards per rush attempt.    I'm not saying I am looking forward to a lot less athleticism from Allen because watching guys like Tom Brady or Joe Burrow play the position is as to watch paint dry.   Boring AF by comparison.    But there needs to be a medium.    Mahomes is right there.    About half as many rush attempts as Josh.

 

And…Mahomes knows how to slide to avoid big hits, instead of trying to bulldoze a LB. 

[1onemangang7]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:22 PM, Big Turk said:

 

I don't have to hide, the world already knows what you are based on you what you post and assuredly by the way you act in real life.

Why don't ya just change your name to big chicken instead of turkey then if in your mind anything is prejudice you can think it's about birds

Edited June 27, 2023 by 1onemangang7

[maddenboy]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:20 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

Instead the Bills have kept 6 of their veteran back 7 together with second contracts and paid a bunch of DL.........and taken a lot more half measures to try to "patch" holes on offense.

 

. . .

 

You can try to reverse engineer it all you want but the Chiefs have kept investing bigger chips into their offense right along.

Just imagine how, from afar, it must be laughable to watch teams like the Bills continue to patch holes.   Like the O-Line and WR are old tires or jeans.   Just enough so we dont embarass ourselves on the field.  

 

But it does embarass us as an organization, if that organization is about Winning the Superbowl Right Now.   Because this mentality is only really saying "as long as we're good enuf to make the playoffs healthy.  Because anything can happen." 

 

As i think about it . . . we're kinda the Seahawks.

 

-Defense

-Conservative offense with the occasional deep shot.

-Let Russ / Josh cook

 ------

 

and not to strain an analogy, but its kinda like we're in the prison yard.  [i have never been in jail, myself]

 

If you have beef with the Chiefs or Bengals or 49ers or Eagles, this could literally be the last day of your life.

 

But if you are up against the Bills or Seahawks or Broncos or Cowboys, its gonna be a good fight.    and we might just surprise you.  We'll make you earn it, at least.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by maddenboy

[Doc Brown]

On 6/26/2023 at 7:35 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I just did a head coach ranking and I have McDermott somewhere between 10th-15th overall.

 

Beane is top 5 GM. 

I have them both in the six to ten range which should be good enough to win a Super Bowl with an elite QB.  I think Beane is a little overrated on these boards while McDermott is a little underrated.

[Bill from NYC]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:55 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'd flip those, if anything.

 

Talent evaluation is a big weakness for Beane.   He's not a scout, he's a suit and he's good at the executive duties.    But wrt personnel his strength has just been that he's been given an unlimited checkbook.    His track record in free agency is just brutal.   McDermott is nowhere near as bad at anything as Beane has been wrt pro personnel.     In the draft he's been better but has some clear strategic flaws......like drafting RB's early three times now and/or reaching for perceived needs in round 2.

 

I'm hoping he gets better as a talent evaluator.    Howie Roseman got better,  hopefully Beane does the same.

 

  

For once we disagree LOL. I think that the drafts and even free agent signings are far more influenced by McDermott than Beane, and for the very reasons that you state above.

McDermott entered Buffalo by trading away the pick for Mahomes and drafting a corner. He traded up in round 1 for a LB and another corner. I even think that the Von Miller deal (not a terrible one mind you) was engineered by McDermott and executed by Beane, and I feel the same about the Oliver contract (and even his draft selection.) McDermott is mostly about defense. 

Some of the above moves harmed the team in terms of leaving Josh short of weapons. We really do need Kincaid (who looks very good to me from what little I have seen of him) to develop rapidly and help the situation on offense.

[SoCal Deek]

Or you could just look at the obvious: When Mahomes gets anywhere close to being in trouble he just tosses it to a wide open Kelce. Over and over and over again! When Allen gets in trouble he’s running for his life, leaping in the air and taking on defenders. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[Matt_In_NH]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or you could just look at the obvious: When Mahomes gets anywhere close to being in trouble he just tosses it to a wide open Kelce. Over and over and over again! When Allen gets in trouble he’s running for his life, leaping in the air and taking on defenders. 

 

There is some truth in this but it's severely overstated.....this is just a extreme negative take.   

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

There is some truth in this but it's severely overstated.....this is just an extreme negative take.   

Really? Wouldn’t you like the Bills offense to include just such a safety valve? I know I would. And I’m really hoping Kincaid can be something close. That assumes of course that Dorsey allows Josh to look for him. 

[Gregg]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Really? Wouldn’t you like the Bills offense to include just such a safety valve? I know I would. And I’m really hoping Kincaid can be something close. That assumes of course that Dorsey allows Josh to look for him. 

 

Don't forget last year KC #2 ranked OL, Bills #26. Main reason why Josh is running for his life. Hopefully with the moves they have made it will be better this year. It has to be if the Bills have any realistic shot at winning the Super Bowl.

[GunnerBill]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:55 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'd flip those, if anything.

 

Talent evaluation is a big weakness for Beane.   He's not a scout, he's a suit and he's good at the executive duties.    But wrt personnel his strength has just been that he's been given an unlimited checkbook.    His track record in free agency is just brutal.   McDermott is nowhere near as bad at anything as Beane has been wrt pro personnel.     In the draft he's been better but has some clear strategic flaws......like drafting RB's early three times now and/or reaching for perceived needs in round 2.

 

I'm hoping he gets better as a talent evaluator.    Howie Roseman got better,  hopefully Beane does the same.  

 

Agree with this. I think Beane's overall personnel philosophy has been pretty solid, not perfect (and you are right about round 2 and running backs) but solid. I think his approach to roster building has been decent. But his talent evaluation has not been consistent enough. I have said on here before that Beane freely admits he isn't the best talent evaluator. It is why Joe Schoen was a loss, because Beane absolutely trusted Joe as an evaluator. Does he have that same relationship with TG and BG? 

 

Beane is a strategiser and a leader. He isn't someone who came up the scouting route and indeed most of his scouting acumen was learned from Dave Gettleman. 

 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Don't forget last year KC #2 ranked OL, Bills #26. Main reason why Josh is running for his life. Hopefully with the moves they have made it will be better this year. It has to be if the Bills have any realistic shot at winning the Super Bowl.

That’s true as well, but even that gets better if he isn’t looking twenty yards downfield on every play. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

That’s true as well, but even that gets better if he isn’t looking twenty yards downfield on every play. 

 

Good point. I am not against taking shots downfield. With Allen and a receiver like Diggs you have to take advantage of it. But Dorsey needs to mix it up as well with the short passing game.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Gregg said:

 

Good point. I am not against taking shots downfield. With Allen and a receiver like Diggs you have to take advantage of it. But Dorsey needs to mix it up as well with the short passing game.

Gregg, I wouldn’t even call it mixing it up. Mahomes looks downfield all the time. The difference is that he knows he’s always got Kelce standing there, seemingly wide open, six or seven yards off the line of scrimmage when the downfield option isn’t there. (And I’m left yelling at the television “why doesn’t somebody cover that guy!” 😂)

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gregg, I wouldn’t even call it mixing it up. Mahomes looks downfield all the time. The difference is that he knows he’s always got Kelce standing there, seemingly wide open, six or seven yards off the line of scrimmage when the downfield option isn’t there. (And I’m left yelling at the television “why doesn’t somebody cover that guy!” 😂)

 

Kelce is one of the best if not the best at the position. Every team tries and fails to stop him. You just have to try and limit the damage so you can still have a chance to beat the Chiefs. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gregg, I wouldn’t even call it mixing it up. Mahomes looks downfield all the time. The difference is that he knows he’s always got Kelce standing there, seemingly wide open, six or seven yards off the line of scrimmage when the downfield option isn’t there. (And I’m left yelling at the television “why doesn’t somebody cover that guy!” 😂)

 

People try everything to cover him. There was a game against the Colts where they covered him with 4 guys one knocked him on his ass.... he still ended up catching a touchdown on the play. 

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Kelce is one of the best if not the best at the position. Every team tries and fails to stop him. You just have to try and limit the damage so you can still have a chance to beat the Chiefs. 

That’s why I loved the Kincaid pick. While he may never be up to the level of Kelce, Josh needs someone like him when gets in trouble. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

For once we disagree LOL. I think that the drafts and even free agent signings are far more influenced by McDermott than Beane, and for the very reasons that you state above.

McDermott entered Buffalo by trading away the pick for Mahomes and drafting a corner. He traded up in round 1 for a LB and another corner. I even think that the Von Miller deal (not a terrible one mind you) was engineered by McDermott and executed by Beane, and I feel the same about the Oliver contract (and even his draft selection.) McDermott is mostly about defense. 

Some of the above moves harmed the team in terms of leaving Josh short of weapons. We really do need Kincaid (who looks very good to me from what little I have seen of him) to develop rapidly and help the situation on offense.

 

 

I don't think Beane is really a puppet to that level..........but no question that McDermott is the most powerful man in the organization so it stands to reason that things that he has a strong conviction on will take precedent over whatever personal vision Beane might have.   If Beane is getting lead around more than it seems though.........then it only moves Beane further into the pack of NFL GM's.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't think Beane is really a puppet to that level..........but no question that McDermott is the most powerful man in the organization so it stands to reason that things that he has a strong conviction on will take precedent over whatever personal vision Beane might have.   If Beane is getting lead around more than it seems though.........then it only moves Beane further into the pack of NFL GM's.

 

Yea agree. I think Beane does run personnel and I think the decisions are ultimately his decisions. But should there ever be a conflict between what he wants to do and what McDermott wants then it is clear the coach has the overrule power. But I don't think McDermott is GM in all but name. Brandon Beane is the GM the personnel decisions are his. 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea agree. I think Beane does run personnel and I think the decisions are ultimately his decisions. But should there ever be a conflict between what he wants to do and what McDermott wants then it is clear the coach has the overrule power. But I don't think McDermott is GM in all but name. Brandon Beane is the GM the personnel decisions are his. 

When it comes to personnel the GM and Coach work together as a team. The Coach is obviously concerned about what he needs on the field to make his team ‘work’ now. The GM has a longer vision, taking into account the financial side of the player contracts and the ever looming salary cap. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Kelce is one of the best if not the best at the position. Every team tries and fails to stop him. You just have to try and limit the damage so you can still have a chance to beat the Chiefs. 

 

He's athletic and smart.  From what I understand, there are multiple options for a receiver to run based on what the defense is doing.  

 

I asked a friend who was invited to an NFL camp but didn't make it (he also told me Eddie George was HUGE can roll his d*** into a honey bun) on why some WR in the NFL don't look like they get their full burst right after the snap.  He said it's because you first have to recognize what the defense is doing to know which route to run.  That's why you see some balls thrown and no one is in the area....miss communication.

 

So Kelce can beat any defender athletically but also knows exactly where he's supposed to be every time....he anticipates where the openings are going to be.

He is to me, without a doubt, the best TE ever.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Really? Wouldn’t you like the Bills offense to include just such a safety valve? I know I would. And I’m really hoping Kincaid can be something close. That assumes of course that Dorsey allows Josh to look for him. 

I am sorry to break this to you but the chances of Kincaid being something close to Kelce are almost zero

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I am sorry to break this to you but the chances of Kincaid being something close to Kelce are almost zero

Well he’s got to be better than what we have now! 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well he’s got to be better than what we have now! 

That's an easier standard👍

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I am sorry to break this to you but the chances of Kincaid being something close to Kelce are almost zero

Yeah.  That's like telling Ed Oliver you have to be Aaron Donald.  I'll take a Zach Ertz or a Greg Olsen though.  I think that's not an unreasonable expectation.

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea agree. I think Beane does run personnel and I think the decisions are ultimately his decisions. But should there ever be a conflict between what he wants to do and what McDermott wants then it is clear the coach has the overrule power. But I don't think McDermott is GM in all but name. Brandon Beane is the GM the personnel decisions are his. 

Can't you see how contradictory this post is. Do you wish to change the wording perhaps?

 

You state that  "McDermott has the overrule power" (you even stated that this is "clear" ) but Beane makes the personnel decisions? 

 

Really?

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Can't you see how contradictory this post is. Do you wish to change the wording perhaps?

 

You state that  "McDermott has the overrule power" (you even stated that this is "clear" ) but Beane makes the personnel decisions? 

 

Really?

 

He has the overrule power. That does not mean he uses it. Beane runs personnel. 

[TBBills Fan]

Im still happy about this move