To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

No guarantees but the way they were playing that year I think they would have gotten by the Bengals. Allen and the offense were unstoppable. But we will never know.

 

They were but it might have taken another 40 point effort to get by the Bengals.  

[Augie]

20 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Gotta think a head coach would be salivating to have Allen as their QB. 

 

I don't think a coach's mindset takes or doesn't take a job based on fear of getting fired. 

 

I disagree to some extent. The opportunity to take over a good roster with a franchise QB would certainly be attractive. But to take the job after another guy got fired after a 14-4 season tells you they have a very short leash. It reeks of Browns style management. I know, they will negotiate a big fat contract and be financially cared for, but I’d have reservations about that management. 

[Doc Brown]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They were but it might have taken another 40 point effort to get by the Bengals.  

Do you really think this defense with a fully healthy T. White, Hyde, D. Jones, Poyer, and Von Miller give up that many points to the Bengals?

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I disagree to some extent. The opportunity to take over a good roster with a franchise QB would certainly be attractive. But to take the job after another guy got fired after a 14-4 season tells you they have a very short leash. It reeks of Browns style management. I know, they will negotiate a big fat contract and be financially cared for, but I’d have reservations about that management. 

 

7 years is a short leash?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Do you really think this defense with a fully healthy T. White, Hyde, D. Jones, Poyer, and Von Miller give up that many points to the Bengals?

 

I was talking about 2021.  

 

This team now, I certainly hope not.

[Augie]

Just now, Gregg said:

 

7 years is a short leash?

 

Firing a coach after a 14-4 season, in that example, is a short leash. Most teams and fan bases would sign up for 14-4 all day long. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Firing a coach after a 14-4 season, in that example, is a short leash. Most teams and fan bases would sign up for 14-4 all day long. 

 

While the regular season record has been very good the playoff failures have been frustrating especially the way they have lost. Andy Reid had a lot of success with the Eagles, but he could never win it all with them. Philly moved on from Reid. The Bills moving on from McDermott would be very similar.

[Doc Brown]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I was talking about 2021.  

 

This team now, I certainly hope not.

Got ya.  The Bengals offense wasn't quite as potent as the Chiefs in 2021 but it's a fair question.

[DrDawkinstein]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think a lot of people are under the assumption that if 13 seconds didn't happen, we automatically win the Super Bowl.

Are we guaranteeing that we beat Cincy?  

 

McDermott's seat will be grease pan hot I believe if he doesn't at least get to the AFCCG this year.  Not knowing right now who would replace him shouldn't really matter.  

 

I dont necessarily think the SB victory was automatic, but I do see that year as our easiest shot so far and possibly ever. Not saying we can't win one, but it will likely be tougher than 2021 Bills vs 2021 Bengals-Rams.

 

48 minutes ago, Augie said:

Here’s a thought I don’t think I’ve seen yet here: If you fire a coach after, say, a 14-4 season, how attractive is that job scenario for top HC candidates you hope will replace your 14-4 coach. I know I’d have reservations about following that up. 

 

Probably easier than during those drought years! I doubt a Bill Cowher is passing the buck to a Chan Gailey on an opportunity to be a part of this team.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

While the regular season record has been very good the playoff failures have been frustrating especially the way they have lost. Andy Reid had a lot of success with the Eagles, but he could never win it all with them. Philly moved on from Reid. The Bills moving on from McDermott would be very similar.

 

So McD would go collect SB rings somewhere else?   😋

 

Chip Kelly replaced Reid and had a record barely over .500. I do like how everyone likes to reference Reid and the Eagles. Philly has a top notch organization right now, but it doesn’t always turn into SB appearances. Sometimes you are the Browns. 

[TheCockSportif]

40 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think a lot of people are under the assumption that if 13 seconds didn't happen, we automatically win the Super Bowl.

Are we guaranteeing that we beat Cincy?  

 

McDermott's seat will be grease pan hot I believe if he doesn't at least get to the AFCCG this year.  Not knowing right now who would replace him shouldn't really matter.  

Correct.  I feel the same way about the MCM game from back in the day.  Many Bills fans (myself excluded) felt that the Bills would walk into the Super Bowl was it not for the moribund MCM game.

 

Not so until the games are played!

[Doc Brown]

29 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

7 years is a short leash?

He's saying whatever coach we hire if McDermott was fired would immediately be expected to win the Super Bowl.  How attractive would that job be compared to a team down in the gutter in need of a full rebuild with lots of draft capital (like the Texans this year)?

[TheCockSportif]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

He's saying whatever coach we hire if McDermott was fired would immediately be expected to win the Super Bowl.  How attractive would that job be compared to a team down in the gutter in need of a full rebuild with lots of draft capital (like the Texans this year)?

I agree with this 100%.

 

I remember the years (not on this board necessarily, but on others) where fans like us would have these debates about whether or not the Bills should make Cowher (or another competent coach of his ilk) a minority owner of this franchise so that they would coach here.  My how times have changed.  

[Gregg]

There was an article ranking the head coaches. McDermott came in at 11.

 

11. Sean McDermott, Buffalo Bills - McDermott has been the most successful -- and perhaps, only successful -- coach Buffalo has had since Marv Levy, but you get the feeling that the 49-year-old's seat might be a little warm. McDermott probably would get hired elsewhere immediately if dismissed by Buffalo, but if there's a third consecutive disappointing postseason exit in the midst of Josh Allen's peak, a new voice may be best for all involved. 

[GoBills808]

24 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So McD would go collect SB rings somewhere else?   😋

 

Chip Kelly replaced Reid and had a record barely over .500. I do like how everyone likes to reference Reid and the Eagles. Philly has a top notch organization right now, but it doesn’t always turn into SB appearances. Sometimes you are the Browns. 

You're looking at it from the coach's perspective, tho. We are Bills fans so we can look at it from the perspective of the Eagles, who after getting rid of Reid have gone on to exactly the kind of success the Bills would like to achieve. It worked out perfectly for them.

[Royale with Cheese]

27 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I dont necessarily think the SB victory was automatic, but I do see that year as our easiest shot so far and possibly ever. Not saying we can't win one, but it will likely be tougher than 2021 Bills vs 2021 Bengals-Rams.

 

 

We need to be the reason why getting to the Super Bowl is hard.  We dictate the path mother******!

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, TheCockSportif said:

I agree with this 100%.

 

I remember the years (not on this board necessarily, but on others) where fans like us would have these debates about whether or not the Bills should make Cowher (or another competent coach of his ilk) a minority owner of this franchise so that they would coach here.  My how times have changed.  

 

The best candidates get to pick the best situations, or even sit out a year waiting for the right team and deal. Nobody wants to step into a bad management situation, it just makes the job too hard. The thought that we would consider a % of ownership shows how desperate we were. 

 

Any time you consider a new job, one question you need to ask is what happened to the last person in that position. Fire someone after a 14-4 season and I’d have to at least ask, is ownership reasonable? 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We need to be the reason why getting to the Super Bowl is hard.  We dictate the path mother******!

I don't believe we are the tough out in the postseason by any stretch. It just feels like we lack an identity when the going gets tough and the decision making becomes reactive.

 

 

[newcam2012]

48 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Firing a coach after a 14-4 season, in that example, is a short leash. Most teams and fan bases would sign up for 14-4 all day long. 

Augie, I think you are getting a little lost in the win loss record here. Sure it's a great feat and praise should be given. 

 

Regarding the Bills, I think the bar has really changed. This team is in SB mode and has been for a few years now. Wouldn't you concur? 

 

Accepting that premise to a certain extent fairly or unfairly tends to minimize regular season accomplishments. 

 

I think going into the last few years very few Bills fans would be content with great regular season records only to fizzle out in the playoffs. I don't think any us us would have thought the Bills wouldn't even reach an AFC Championship game to go the SB. 

 

Sure it depends on your perspective, viewpoint, and how you measure success. 

 

With that said, the team has fallen short of its realistic goal to represent the AFC. Saying it's tough to do, they didn't get the breaks, and they had a great regular season record just falls flat in so many aspects. 

 

Look at the players reactions, expressions, comments, etc...after the years of disappointing playoff losses. It's hardly an expression of a successful season. It's hardly a ringing endorsement of a successful season.

 

No player, coach, or GM is out on the podium saying it was a great season. We were 14-4 and won the AFC East. Thank you fans; we see that as a great successful season. 

 

 We haven't seen that because it's falling short of their goal. The goal is getting to the SB. Winning the Super. At the very least advancing to the AFC conference championship game. None of that is an unrealistic goal.

 

Simply put we haven't seen a whole lot of progression in the playoffs. It's more disappointment under the McD regime. 

 

Perhaps, it's too soon to start calling for McD to go. I can see that logic although I still disagree. When is enough an enough? 

Edited June 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You're looking at it from the coach's perspective, tho. We are Bills fans so we can look at it from the perspective of the Eagles, who after getting rid of Reid have gone on to exactly the kind of success the Bills would like to achieve. It worked out perfectly for them.

 

They are a single team. They are the outlier. Keep that in mind. 

 

 

EDIT: Apparently at least a couple posters disagree. Are they not just one team? Are there a bunch of teams firing coaches on the way to SB’s? 

 

It seems getting TOO emotional can affect the way you see things. 

.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Augie

[TheCockSportif]

Just now, Augie said:

 

The best candidates get to pick the best situations, or even sit out a year waiting for the right team and deal. Nobody wants to step into a bad management situation, it just makes the job too hard. The thought that we would consider a % of ownership shows how desperate we were. 

 

Any time you consider a new job, one question you need to ask is what happened to the last person in that position. Fire someone after a 14-4 season and I’d have to at least ask, is ownership reasonable? 

 

Totally agree with you.

 

But Dungy keeps coming to mind.  He turned around the... Bucs before failing to get the team to the next level.  Gruden won one, then Dungy won one for another underachieving team in the Colts.

 

Clearly both coaches took the gigs, and I wonder the questions that they asked.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

They are a single team. They are the outlier. Keep that in mind. 

Yes, but there aren't a lot of examples of teams getting rid of coaches who have more wins than losses. Bengals post Lewis have been better also.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

They are a single team. They are the outlier. Keep that in mind. 

 

I think the difference through all of the Reid/Philly/KC stuff is: in Philly he never had a true star QB. And in KC, it was more of the same middling success with the likes of Alex Smith. It wasnt until Reid got Mahomes that he started winning big consistently. At least he's winning like he's supposed to.

 

But McD has a Mahomes. He isnt stuck with a McNabb/Smith. So not winning big consistently falls squarely on the coaching here imo.

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Augie]

1 minute ago, TheCockSportif said:

 

Totally agree with you.

 

But Dungy keeps coming to mind.  He turned around the... Bucs before failing to get the team to the next level.  Gruden won one, then Dungy won one for another underachieving team in the Colts.

 

Clearly both coaches took the gigs, and I wonder the questions that they asked.

 

I lived in the Tampa market during those years. It’s interesting, and we’ll never know how it might have turned out, but I think Dungy would have won it with the Bucs. Gruden was just so lucky to fall into that spot (again because he was the top name and got to pick his spot) and won almost by default over his old team who hadn’t even bothered to change their calls. That is one of the most underrated boneheaded moves in the history of the NFL. There is video of John Lynch belly laughing on the sidelines saying something like “they haven’t changed a thing!! 😂”

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

OK, so same question to you that I asked Doc but haven't gotten an answer on yet; 

 

 

Suppose that it plays out that we go through the season again, make the playoffs whatever the circumstances, and lose either in the Wild-Card or Divisional Round by not playing our best and/or by losing to an inferior team.  

 

What are your thoughts then? 

 

 

If McDermott loses in the wildcard the seat gets warm. 

[newcam2012]

50 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So McD would go collect SB rings somewhere else?   😋

 

Chip Kelly replaced Reid and had a record barely over .500. I do like how everyone likes to reference Reid and the Eagles. Philly has a top notch organization right now, but it doesn’t always turn into SB appearances. Sometimes you are the Browns. 

Or sometimes you are the Bills. Consistent playoff failures for years. 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Or sometimes you are the Bills. Consistent playoff failures for years. 

 

You want to make it sounds like I don’t want want to win a SB. I really do! I also realize that 31 teams are disappointed every year (some as early as October). McD is 4-5 in playoff games, and we all with that was better. I just won’t concede to the woe is us attitude. He gets AT LEAST this year, so beating it to death here at this point seems senseless to me. What can we do better? Realistic things to improve? That is more my focus, and quite frankly this is getting tiresome. 

 

We are not all supposed to see eye to eye on everything. That would be weird. 😋

[Einstein]

23 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Or sometimes you are the Bills. Consistent playoff failures for years. 

 

Bingo. I posted this before but I think it expands on exactly what you are saying the last page or two: 

 

For nearly twenty years, the objective was to achieve "playoff quality". Today, however, that status is a given. It is the baseline.  Reaching the playoffs is no longer a measure of distinction for a Bills coach. It is the bare minimum. With a top 3 QB in Josh Allen, playoffs have become an expectation.

 

In some instances, the coach who reinvigorates a franchise, lifting it from obscurity, is not the same coach who can guide a team to its pinnacle - a championship.

 

These are, after all, distinct skill sets. The former requires the ability to unify a franchise, to foster a new culture, and to motivate. Meanwhile, a championship coach needs tobe a brilliant strategist, adept at navigating the complexities of in-game decisions, and able to outwit the other sideline. These capabilities can coexist in one individual, but sometimes, they're embodied by two separate individuals.

 

I see McDermott as an exceptional 'team-flipper'. Just as a house flipper can transform a derelict property into a lucrative investment, McDermott possesses the instinctive ability to revitalize an NFL franchise and imbue it with respectability. However, we've observed that McDermott, despite his commendable skill as a team-flipper, hasn't displayed the same proficiency in the playoffs. In high-stakes situations, when absolute precision is demanded, and outsmarting the opposing team is crucial, he hasn't fully met the challenge. Is that going to suddenly change? I have my doubts.

 

 

 

 

[PBF81]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If McDermott loses in the wildcard the seat gets warm. 

 

Warm as in what, precisely?  How many seasons of doing that with the expiration date on Allen getting closer before a change is made?  

 

I don't have shred of confidence that after Allen's time we'll ever get closer.  

 

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

You want to make it sounds like I don’t want want to win a SB. I really do! I also realize that 31 teams are disappointed every year (some as early as October). McD is 4-5 in playoff games, and we all with that was better. I just won’t concede to the woe is us attitude. He gets AT LEAST this year, so beating it to death here at this point seems senseless to me. What can we do better? Realistic things to improve? That is more my focus, and quite frankly this is getting tiresome. 

 

We are not all supposed to see eye to eye on everything. That would be weird. 😋

Yet you pound the drum for McD. Which is completely acceptable. It does come with validity.

 

However, you have to expect resistance to your viewpoint. There are several valid points to the contrary. 

 

At this point, no one can proclaim their position is correct without any level of accuracy. 

 

I get that the topic is getting tiresome. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Yet you pound the drum for McD. Which is completely acceptable. It does come with validity.

 

However, you have to expect resistance to your viewpoint. There are several valid points to the contrary. 

 

At this point, no one can proclaim their position is correct without any level of accuracy. 

 

I get that the topic is getting tiresome. 

 

And THERE is the disconnect! I do NOT pound the table for McD. He’s done enough to get at least one more year, so why are we doing this now? THAT is my thing. It’s just pointless.   🤷‍♂️

[newcam2012]

59 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Bingo. I posted this before but I think it expands on exactly what you are saying the last page or two: 

 

For nearly twenty years, the objective was to achieve "playoff quality". Today, however, that status is a given. It is the baseline.  Reaching the playoffs is no longer a measure of distinction for a Bills coach. It is the bare minimum. With a top 3 QB in Josh Allen, playoffs have become an expectation.

 

In some instances, the coach who reinvigorates a franchise, lifting it from obscurity, is not the same coach who can guide a team to its pinnacle - a championship.

 

These are, after all, distinct skill sets. The former requires the ability to unify a franchise, to foster a new culture, and to motivate. Meanwhile, a championship coach needs tobe a brilliant strategist, adept at navigating the complexities of in-game decisions, and able to outwit the other sideline. These capabilities can coexist in one individual, but sometimes, they're embodied by two separate individuals.

 

I see McDermott as an exceptional 'team-flipper'. Just as a house flipper can transform a derelict property into a lucrative investment, McDermott possesses the instinctive ability to revitalize an NFL franchise and imbue it with respectability. However, we've observed that McDermott, despite his commendable skill as a team-flipper, hasn't displayed the same proficiency in the playoffs. In high-stakes situations, when absolute precision is demanded, and outsmarting the opposing team is crucial, he hasn't fully met the challenge. Is that going to suddenly change? I have my doubts.

 

 

 

 

Dang Einstein!   

 

Clear, concise, and to the point. This is a fantastic synopsis of how I see things. 

 

It's hard for me to disagree with any morsel of what you said. 

 

Well stated and I welcome your input. Just wish others wouldn't be so rude and unprofessional. I see you as a valuable poster that often gets rift due to your unpopular opinions which are largely based in facts. 

 

Home run here! 

[newcam2012]

15 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

And THERE is the disconnect! I do NOT pound the table for McD. He’s done enough to get at least one more year, so why are we doing this now? THAT is my thing. It’s just pointless.   🤷‍♂️

You state "he's done enough to earn another year." I get that and that's a fair statement. I suspect many echo this sentiment. No qualms with that.

 

However, I'd ask have you seen enough? What makes you think McD can be get the team over the hump? Can or could another coach do or done better? 

 

All questions that have beaten to a pulp. The real disconnect is many people feel McD has lost the opportunity via his multiple playoff failures with a Franchise QB. Many feel a solid offensive minded coach is the change that can get the Bills over the top. Or even a defensive guy like Lou Anarumo. 

 

Can you acknowledge those are valid and viable opinions? 

Edited June 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You state "he's done enough to earn another year." I get that and that's a fair statement. I suspect many echo this sentiment. No qualms with that.

 

However, I'd ask have you seen enough? What makes you think McD can be get the team over the hump? Can or could another coach do or done better? 

 

All questions that have beaten to a pulp. The real disconnect is many people feel McD has lost the opportunity via his multiple playoff failures with a Franchise QB. Many feel a solid offensive minded coach is the change that can get the Bills over the top. 

 

Can you acknowledge those are valid and viable opinions? 

 

Of course! I just disagree, right now. 

 

Could another coach do better is only one side of the coin. You know the other. We have a group, right now, built to win a certain way. We have some aging on defense, but we are now in a window. I don’t start over now. See if he can get it done with this group and this scheme.

 

A new coach wants to do his own thing, and far too often the players are not fits for what they want to do. Like when you move houses, the sofa (or OLineman) was fine in the last place, but now it doesn’t work. So we start over with new pieces. I think we are too close to start over….now. 

 

And times change, so we shall see. 

[Albany,n.y.]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes, but there aren't a lot of examples of teams getting rid of coaches who have more wins than losses. Bengals post Lewis have been better also.

Joe Burrow is the reason.  A QB change to a franchise QB changes everything.  

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Joe Burrow is the reason.  A QB change to a franchise QB changes everything.  

Right...so how come they're going to back to back AFCCG and we aren't 

[Einstein]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Dang Einstein!   

 

Clear, concise, and to the point. This is a fantastic synopsis of how I see things. 

 

It's hard for me to disagree with any morsel of what you said. 

 

Well stated and I welcome your input. Just wish others wouldn't be so rude and unprofessional. I see you as a valuable poster that often gets rift due to your unpopular opinions which are largely based in facts. 

 

Home run here! 

 

Thank you sir. I appreciate the kind words.

[peterpan]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:29 PM, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

I wonder if Daboll would come back.  That’s who I’d like.  Belicheater stiffed the Jets in similar fashion 

[Nextmanup]

44 minutes ago, peterpan said:

I wonder if Daboll would come back.  That’s who I’d like.  Belicheater stiffed the Jets in similar fashion 

He's the HC of the NY Giants.  He's not coming back, unless he gets fired.

 

By the way, the best possible hire may very well be someone gainfully employed right now.  At the end of the year, maybe 8 of these guys will be fired...and who knows who might become available.

 

You can always go the bright up and coming OC route too....who that guy is, I have no idea...but there are people out there who do.

 

 

[Billsflyer12]

8 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Look at Elway as an example. He didn't win a Super Bowl for the longest time (although he did get to and lose 3 of them) but the Broncos managed to build a team around him nearing the end of his career which allowed him to win 2 Super Bowls. The Bills have time to win with Allen, but I am not sure that McDermott will be the coach when they finally win a Super Bowl with him.

A better Bronco example, John Fox. 13-3, 13-3, 12-4, fired. Very next season Gary Kubrick got them across the finish line winning 2015 Super Bowl.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Billsflyer12