Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[ngbills]

13 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills made some difficult decisions. Signing Oliver certainly looked to seal the deal that Hopkins wasn't coming to Buffalo. Maybe I'm wrong here because I'm not good with the cap and money restrictions. 

 

If my premise is somewhat plausible, i'd rather have Dhop and traded Oliver for a mid draft pick or two. I think Dhop impacts the team more and gives the Bills a better chance to win. With Beane really concentrating on the offense, I'm surprised he couldn't or didn't get it done. 

 

I think opposing teams would have hated to see Dhop go to Buffalo. I doubt Oliver is putting any fear in opposing offenses. I doubt they are game planning for him. Dhop on the other hand certainly creates many issues for opposing defenses. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's not as simple as I'm stating. Lots of variables in play. I can't help but to feel a little let down in the decision not to create some cap room for DHop. 

All we needed to do was restrux one or two of a few guys. TEN only has like $3M more cap space than us and got a deal done. 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

McB will no longer have the luxury of ignoring the WR position.  Diggs because of age & attitude may have limited time. I have no faith in 53% Gabe Davis. We absolutely must draft 2 wrs in the first 3 rounds. And one has to hit.

The Bills WR core after Diggs is a huge drop off. At this point, it's pretty clear what Davis and several of the other WRs are. The WR core likely doesn't instill much fear for opposing defenses. Allen will once again be the focal point. Likely he will be asked to do too much. The Bills definelty need another WR to step it up. 

 

Come playoff time you game bank on it the opposing team will double Diggs and take him out of the game. Some other WR will have to step up. Davis is no longer a secret and unlikely to be that guy. I'm sure others disagree here. Kincaid shows promise and potential but who knows. Same with others. 

 

As for me, the team had to make some difficult decisions. Cap restrictions certainly limited the teams moves. Beane was honest about that. None of the offensive moves in and of itself seem to be game changers except Kincaid. If Kincaid is that dynamic and the coaching staff can utilize his skill set then that's another story. Hopefully, he becomes a dynamic weapon for the Bills. If so, an already dangerous Allen becomes even better.

 

Another huge key is the oline. The oline has to be much better in order for the Bills to compete with likes of KC and Cinci. Beane has absolutely tried to upgrade this area. Hopefully, it pans out. 

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

All we needed to do was restrux one or two of a few guys. TEN only has like $3M more cap space than us and got a deal done. 

Thanks. Sure feels like the Bills could have gotten a deal done. 

[KingBoots8]

9 minutes ago, Irv said:

I don't blame him for taking the money.  I'd rather have a couple million in my pocket for myself and my family than a Super Bowl ring.  That may not be popular, but I'd take the $$$$$$ all day and twice on Sunday.    

To be fair, and I’m making an assumption here, you don’t already have millions that you are sitting on. It’s incredibly easy for someone like us to take the money because comparatively speaking we don’t have all that much. 
 

Now if I was 30 years old and nearing the twilight of my career, who already made over $45m in the NFL alone, I might consider taking a little less for a year or two so I could say I was a world champion.

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, Irv said:

I don't blame him for taking the money.  I'd rather have a couple million in my pocket for myself and my family than a Super Bowl ring.  That may not be popular, but I'd take the $$$$$$ all day and twice on Sunday.    

 

He and his family had already collected 57 million form the Cardinals. 

 

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills WR core after Diggs is a huge drop off. At this point, it's pretty clear what Davis and several of the other WRs are. The WR core likely doesn't instill much fear for opposing defenses. Allen will once again be the focal point. Likely he will be asked to do too much. The Bills definelty need another WR to step it up. 

 

Come playoff time you game bank on it the opposing team will double Diggs and take him out of the game. Some other WR will have to step up. Davis is no longer a secret and unlikel

 

 

Diggs was not a star  after the bye.  And for his career in playoff closeout games, he's a ghost. So yeah, someone else will need to step up.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills made some difficult decisions. Signing Oliver certainly looked to seal the deal that Hopkins wasn't coming to Buffalo. Maybe I'm wrong here because I'm not good with the cap and money restrictions. 

 

If my premise is somewhat plausible, i'd rather have Dhop and traded Oliver for a mid draft pick or two. I think Dhop impacts the team more and gives the Bills a better chance to win. With Beane really concentrating on the offense, I'm surprised he couldn't or didn't get it done. 

 

I think opposing teams would have hated to see Dhop go to Buffalo. I doubt Oliver is putting any fear in opposing offenses. I doubt they are game planning for him. Dhop on the other hand certainly creates many issues for opposing defenses. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's not as simple as I'm stating. Lots of variables in play. I can't help but to feel a little let down in the decision not to create some cap room for DHop. 

 

It definitely isn't that simple. Ed's cap hit this year is less than $5m - extending him actually freed up money this year rather than costing it. And beyond 2023 they had zero DTs under contract next season. So unless they were going to go with 4 rookies or vet minimum players at DT next year they kind of had to commit some money to that position, and that wasn't "free money" that could have gone to offense. It was really the money that had to go on the defensive tackle position not just for the benefit of 2023, but for the years beyond. 

 

The moves that it is more reasonable to suggest cost money that could have gone on offense were Leonard Floyd and Poona Ford. Floyd is a 1 year $7m deal while the cap hit is spread over 4 years and so it is only a $2.6m hit this year. Ford is 1 year $1.5m. That wouldn't have been enough to land DHop. 

 

On Ed Oliver the player, he has been consistently near the top of Seth Walder's double team tracker which suggests that teams do to some extent game plan to stop him. The Bills haven't had a lot of other guys who can penetrate inside (from DT or MLB given that Edmunds wasn't much of a blitzer) so he does tend to get a fair amount of focus.... but he was also a game wrecker in the middle of last season that Cleveland-Detroit run he played as big a part as anyone in winning us those games. He needs to stay healthy and he does need to produce more consistently but he is one of our best defenders. 

 

Even having said that though, there was a deal that I think was viable to trade Ed for DHop (not that I think the Bills ever countenanced it, but I might have) pre-FA and draft. It would have required them to spend some of that defensive tackle cash on a vet for more than a 1 year rental to enable them to afford to part with Ed but then they could also have prioritised drafting a young DT and trying to make a play to trade for Hopkins (and tinker with his contract to make it all fit). By the time DHop became a free agent the Bills were realistically out of the running IMO. The Ed Oliver extension at that point a) saved us money and b) was a move they really needed to make at the spot. 

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He and his family had already collected 57 million form the Cardinals. 

 

 

Diggs was not a star  after the bye.  And for his career in playoff closeout games, he's a ghost. So yeah, someone else will need to step up.

The whole Diggs situation is one I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm not convinced that everything is squashed. I'm expecting some Diggs drama this season. Diggs certainly has a difficult time controlling his emotions. Hoping we don't see a Minn repeat but it wouldn't surprise me either. We've some red flags already. The coffee is brewing sort of speak. 

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It definitely isn't that simple. Ed's cap hit this year is less than $5m - extending him actually freed up money this year rather than costing it. And beyond 2023 they had zero DTs under contract next season. So unless they were going to go with 4 rookies or vet minimum players at DT next year they kind of had to commit some money to that position, and that wasn't "free money" that could have gone to offense. It was really the money that had to go on the defensive tackle position not just for the benefit of 2023, but for the years beyond. 

 

The moves that it is more reasonable to suggest cost money that could have gone on offense were Leonard Floyd and Poona Ford. Floyd is a 1 year $7m deal while the cap hit is spread over 4 years and so it is only a $2.6m hit this year. Ford is 1 year $1.5m. That wouldn't have been enough to land DHop. 

 

On Ed Oliver the player, he has been consistently near the top of Seth Walder's double team tracker which suggests that teams do to some extent game plan to stop him. The Bills haven't had a lot of other guys who can penetrate inside (from DT or MLB given that Edmunds wasn't much of a blitzer) so he does tend to get a fair amount of focus.... but he was also a game wrecker in the middle of last season that Cleveland-Detroit run he played as big a part as anyone in winning us those games. He needs to stay healthy and he does need to produce more consistently but he is one of our best defenders. 

 

Even having said that though, there was a deal that I think was viable to trade Ed for DHop (not that I think the Bills ever countenanced it, but I might have) pre-FA and draft. It would have required them to spend some of that defensive tackle cash on a vet for more than a 1 year rental to enable them to afford to part with Ed but then they could also have prioritised drafting a young DT and trying to make a play to trade for Hopkins (and tinker with his contract to make it all fit). By the time DHop became a free agent the Bills were realistically out of the running IMO. The Ed Oliver extension at that point a) saved us money and b) was a move they really needed to make at the spot. 

Super good insight here Gunner! Thanks. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The whole Diggs situation is one I'm interested to see how it plays out. I'm not convinced that everything is squashed. I'm expecting some Diggs drama this season. Diggs certainly has a difficult time controlling his emotions. Hoping we don't see a Minn repeat but it wouldn't surprise me either. We've some red flags already. The coffee is brewing sort of speak. 

Super good insight here Gunner! Thanks. 

 

 

It's not about drama....the guy is a biggest game no show, going back to Minnesota.

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It definitely isn't that simple. Ed's cap hit this year is less than $5m - extending him actually freed up money this year rather than costing it. And beyond 2023 they had zero DTs under contract next season. So unless they were going to go with 4 rookies or vet minimum players at DT next year they kind of had to commit some money to that position, and that wasn't "free money" that could have gone to offense. It was really the money that had to go on the defensive tackle position not just for the benefit of 2023, but for the years beyond. 

 

The moves that it is more reasonable to suggest cost money that could have gone on offense were Leonard Floyd and Poona Ford. Floyd is a 1 year $7m deal while the cap hit is spread over 4 years and so it is only a $2.6m hit this year. Ford is 1 year $1.5m. That wouldn't have been enough to land DHop. 

 

On Ed Oliver the player, he has been consistently near the top of Seth Walder's double team tracker which suggests that teams do to some extent game plan to stop him. The Bills haven't had a lot of other guys who can penetrate inside (from DT or MLB given that Edmunds wasn't much of a blitzer) so he does tend to get a fair amount of focus.... but he was also a game wrecker in the middle of last season that Cleveland-Detroit run he played as big a part as anyone in winning us those games. He needs to stay healthy and he does need to produce more consistently but he is one of our best defenders. 

 

Even having said that though, there was a deal that I think was viable to trade Ed for DHop (not that I think the Bills ever countenanced it, but I might have) pre-FA and draft. It would have required them to spend some of that defensive tackle cash on a vet for more than a 1 year rental to enable them to afford to part with Ed but then they could also have prioritised drafting a young DT and trying to make a play to trade for Hopkins (and tinker with his contract to make it all fit). By the time DHop became a free agent the Bills were realistically out of the running IMO. The Ed Oliver extension at that point a) saved us money and b) was a move they really needed to make at the spot. 

I do like Oliver. He is solid but lacks consistency. His contract does seem reasonable and The Bills clearly had little to nothing behind him. So the Oliver signing does make sense. 

 

I do like the Floyd and Ford pick ups along with moving on from Edmunds.

 

However, I'm ultra focused on the offensive side of the ball. Perhaps to a flaw. Dhop certainly fits into my mindset of loading up on the offense. 

[Virgil]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

There are a number of ways we could have had enough space left over for Hopkins. It is frustrating to see us make the same mistake as last offseason despite even more evidence that Davis is not ready to be a full time WR2. I have trouble envisioning how our offense is going to fare against more talented offenses in the playoffs. I guess if Allen plays at his ceiling for the entire season and everyone that we brought in this offseason meets their expectations we can overcome an inefficient WR2 but it's a lot to ask.

Sadly, I think that’s the gameplan.  Hope Allen plays out of his mind every week 

[CSBill]

Did we sign Hopkins yet?

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's not about drama....the guy is a biggest game no show, going back to Minnesota.

I here you. I'm a big Diggs fan for many reasons. I love the way he competes and certainly has been really good for the Bills. 

 

Yes, he hasn't produced cone playoff time. I think that's more on the Bills game planning, schemes, lack of WR weapons, and teams flat out doubling and taking Diggs out of the game. Sure blame some has to fall ob Diggs without a doubt. 

 

I'm just wondering what changes this year; so Diggs can be a weapon come playoff time? Another no show is unacceptable.  

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's not about drama....the guy is a biggest game no show, going back to Minnesota.

That's a little harsh though. The guy falls somewhere in the vicinity of the top 10 WRs in the league. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

25 minutes ago, ngbills said:

No team has Kelce but that is why CIN needs Chase, Higgins and Boyd. That is why MIA needs Hill and Waddle. The Bills need a Diggs and somebody. The hope is that somebody is Davis (looked possible entering last season, not so much anymore), Knox or Kincaid, one of the journeyman in Harty or Sherfield. Until then the Bills are just Diggs and the supporting cast. The teams mentioned above are the who we need to beat this year to achieve our goals. I think we are well behind all of them in threats to catch the ball until we have a solid #2 option. 

 

I agree. The Bills need something in addition. Unfortunately, they had invested already in the WR room before Hopkins was made an option. I would suspect that after talking to Hopkins (which the Bills reportedly did) and Arizona about compensation the investment wasn't worth it, so Beane went to plan B and invested a 1st round pick in a pass catcher. After investing so much in cap and draft assets I can understand not wanting to invest highly at that point. 

 

Now, while we need something else in addition to Diggs, nothing says it has to come all from 1 player. The NFL is a matchup league. It's up to Dorsey now to find where the mismatch is every week and attack that. We can run 12 (well, 11.5) personal. We have speed. We have runners that can run between the tackles and runners with speed that can bounce outside as well as catch passes. And soooo many more options. Not to mention we have Allen.  If we have a different guy to step into that "2nd guy" role every week...so be it. This season is, IMO just as important for Dorsey to find ways to exploit these matchups and use these guys as it is on these guys stepping up and into a role.

 

And if all the new options don't click for whatever reason I wouldn't rule out a deadline trade for a WR as we have a lot of draft capital next year. The sky really isn't falling IMO.

[Irv]

29 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

To be fair, and I’m making an assumption here, you don’t already have millions that you are sitting on. It’s incredibly easy for someone like us to take the money because comparatively speaking we don’t have all that much. 
 

Now if I was 30 years old and nearing the twilight of my career, who already made over $45m in the NFL alone, I might consider taking a little less for a year or two so I could say I was a world champion.

 

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He and his family had already collected 57 million form the Cardinals. 

 

 

Diggs was not a star  after the bye.  And for his career in playoff closeout games, he's a ghost. So yeah, someone else will need to step up.

 

I get it.  I'd still take the money.  If I didn't need the dough, I could help someone with it, who does.  

[Fleezoid]

I thought we hit the point where this thread dies.  We're running out of time. Only about 9 days to talk Cooper Kupp rumors. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's not about drama....the guy is a biggest game no show, going back to Minnesota.

I believe there are some people in New Orleans that would dispute that sentiment...

[BillsfaninSB]

I’m sure it was said earlier but at least he didn’t go to the Chiefs, Bengals or AFCE.

 

Maybe he can help the Titans beat some teams that are a danger like the Jags. 

[Fleezoid]

5 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I’m sure it was said earlier but at least he didn’t go to the Chiefs, Bengals or AFCE.

 

Maybe he can help the Titans beat some teams that are a danger like the Jags. 

 

Lets hope he catches game-winning TDs against Miami, Cinci and the Jags. Little nuggets that will help the Bills.

 

And man the Titans have an easy schedule. It's the AFC South, there is that. But they also play the NFC South and the Browns and Steelers from the AFC. You could argue the Steelers and Browns could have good seasons, but my gut says not so much. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I here you. I'm a big Diggs fan for many reasons. I love the way he competes and certainly has been really good for the Bills. 

 

Yes, he hasn't produced cone playoff time. I think that's more on the Bills game planning, schemes, lack of WR weapons, and teams flat out doubling and taking Diggs out of the game. Sure blame some has to fall ob Diggs without a doubt. 

 

I'm just wondering what changes this year; so Diggs can be a weapon come playoff time? Another no show is unacceptable.  

That's a little harsh though. The guy falls somewhere in the vicinity of the top 10 WRs in the league. 

 

I'm commenting on his biggest game of the season performances.  It's a pattern spanning 2 teams/coaching staffs/roster. 

 

 

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I believe there are some people in New Orleans that would dispute that sentiment...

 

 

Let them, the numbers tell the story.

 

 

1 hour ago, Irv said:

 

 

I get it.  I'd still take the money.  If I didn't need the dough, I could help someone with it, who does.  

 

 

He could have done that as well.  

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mr. WEO

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm commenting on his biggest game of the season performances.  It's a pattern spanning 2 teams/coaching staffs/roster. 

 

 

 

 

Let them, the numbers tell the story.

 

 

 

 

He could have done that as well.  

I can't argue the facts they are what they are. He has been largely a no show come playoff time. You aren't wrong here. 

 

It kind of goes back to what are your expectations of players and the team. More specifically, the Bills team has been outstanding in the regular season, winning their division, making multiple playoff appearances, and advancing in the playoffs. Many many fans are thrilled with these results. View this as success. Advancing further is just more entertainment. 

 

Fast forward that same theme to  Diggs. It's pretty applicable. 

 

Matter of how you see things. 

[4merper4mer]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

 

Let them, the numbers tell the story.

 

 

 

 

  

6 is a number.  It’s the number of points the Vikings were awarded for Diggs last second TD against the Saints.  The story it tells is that the game had a different winner because of it.