Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[starrymessenger]

13 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

don’t think that was an option under the rules bud. Drafted rookies have to wait until after their 3rd season to start to negotiate a new deal (as I understand it.)

 

EDIT:

”Renegotiations: Rookie contracts for drafted players can't be renegotiated or altered in any way until after the last regular-season game of the third contracted year. Undrafted rookies must wait until after their second season to amend a contract. Any rookie contract that is renegotiated or extended in any way is no longer considered a rookie contract and is not restricted by the rules governing such contracts.”

 

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/2023-nfl-free-agency-explainer-vital-information-on-franchise-tags-contract-term

 

 

Thank you. You are right. So let me ask you this. After his third year (and his MVP) why wouldn't any agent have insisted that he not play the remaining two years of his rookie deal and risk injury that might preclude a second contract. When did Josh's new contract get done. Kyler Murray? 

Edited March 15, 2023 by starrymessenger

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

Thank you. You are right. So let me ask you this. After his third year (and his MVP) why wouldn't any agent have insisted that he not play the remaining two years of his rookie deal and risk injury that might preclude a second contract. When did Josh's new contract get done. Kyler Murray? 

He dont have a agent. That's part of the problem. His momma is his advisor lol

[QLBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

Ravens are 45-16 with Lamar starting.  They’re 4-8 without him.  

Right and he’s the starting QB for the Ravens for $32m. Well under his value because he didn’t take offers well over that. And he’s asking for fully guaranteed $.. so he will be the starting QB for the Ravens to build on that record. Or he sits and loses more $$$. 

[Billl]

GMs should be more than happy to guarantee a contract to their franchise QB.  Whatever GM signs a QB to a massive contract is getting fired if he sucks irrespective of how much of the money was guaranteed.  It’s not like pissing away $130 million is fine but $180 million is grounds for termination.  If you pick the right guy, he’s worth whatever the contract is.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Thank you. You are right. So let me ask you this. After his third year (and his MVP) why wouldn't any agent have insisted that he not play the remaining two years of his rookie deal and risk injury that might preclude a second contract. When did Josh's new contract get done. Kyler Murray? 

 

Not sure what you mean about not playing out the rookie contract.  Players sign "extensions" to their rookie contracts.

Josh signed before his 4th season.  Technically this is the first year of Josh Allen's 6-year extension.

[starrymessenger]

Just now, Gunsgoodtime said:

He dont have an agent. That's part of the problem. His momma is his advisor lol

 I know. Makes no sense to me. And if/when he starts receiving offers who is going to go through and vet a lengthy and complicated legal document. Lamar?

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Thank you. You are right. So let me ask you this. After his third year (and his MVP) why wouldn't any agent have insisted that he not play the remaining two years of his rookie deal and risk injury that might preclude a second contract. When did Josh's new contract get done. Kyler Murray? 

I honestly don’t know why they didn’t negotiate in earnest after season 3. Maybe he rightly suspected the deals would start to get nutty if he waited another year (they did.) that could have also been a mistake on his part sure, since the more he played into that rookie deal, the more risk of injury (which also happened.) 

Edited March 15, 2023 by JoPoy88

[QLBillsFan]

35 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

Yep. The fact that some people are arguing “well, shoulda took the $133M” is ludicrous.

Yeah so that’s an average of $44m+ with 💯 guaranteed. JA is at an average of $43m with 60% guaranteed. What a preposterous offer!!! 

[Low Positive]

Just now, Billl said:

GMs should be more than happy to guarantee a contract to their franchise QB.  Whatever GM signs a QB to a massive contract is getting fired if he sucks irrespective of how much of the money was guaranteed.  It’s not like pissing away $130 million is fine but $180 million is grounds for termination.  If you pick the right guy, he’s worth whatever the contract is.

It’s not the GMs. It’s the owners. They have to put any money guaranteed over the life of a contract into an escrow account so that’s it’s actually guaranteed. 

[QLBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

GMs should be more than happy to guarantee a contract to their franchise QB.  Whatever GM signs a QB to a massive contract is getting fired if he sucks irrespective of how much of the money was guaranteed.  It’s not like pissing away $130 million is fine but $180 million is grounds for termination.  If you pick the right guy, he’s worth whatever the contract is.

Unless he gets hurt frequently 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Chicken Boo]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

GMs should be more than happy to guarantee a contract to their franchise QB.  Whatever GM signs a QB to a massive contract is getting fired if he sucks irrespective of how much of the money was guaranteed.  It’s not like pissing away $130 million is fine but $180 million is grounds for termination.  If you pick the right guy, he’s worth whatever the contract is.

 

I've said it a couple of times now, but the thing I don't get is that Lamar will see every dollar of whatever 4-6 year contract he ends up signing.  What's the big deal?

 

If the Ravens are that worried about a potential catastrophic injury, then both parties need to part ways.  

[Billl]

1 minute ago, QLBillsFan said:

Unless he gets hurt frequently 🤷🏻‍♂️

Lamar, we don’t want to pay you if you get hurt trying to win games for us.  Also, you’re a bum if you don’t risk your career by playing injured.

[QLBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Billl said:

They’re so well run that they’re 4-8 when Lamar doesn’t play.

What is the record of other top NFL teams when the qb doesn’t play? With the exception of SF not that great. So you’re seriously basing your view of the Ravens on W-L record when their oft injured QB doesn’t play. The Ravens are a minimum top 10 franchise in the NFL by all measures. 

[Mikie2times]

14 minutes ago, Billl said:

Ravens are 45-16 with Lamar starting.  They’re 4-8 without him.  

1-3 in the playoffs and that's a record that just isn't going to get much better. By the time he makes it that far he is either injured or going up against teams that know his cheat code. 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

They’re so well run that they’re 4-8 when Lamar doesn’t play.

Well, there are a dozen games he didn’t play, and he didn’t help. Most of them in the last 2 seasons. As he ages and slows, I don’t know that that will improve.  That hurts his value in my mind.   🤷‍♂️

 

I love the guys winning percentage, and he’s fun to watch. I’m just not going to do anything that will set a bad precedent and possibly cripple the franchise for this, however. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I've said it a couple of times now, but the thing I don't get is that Lamar will see every dollar of whatever 4-6 year contract he ends up signing.  What's the big deal?

 

If the Ravens are that worried about a potential catastrophic injury, then both parties need to part ways.  

Basic pride/ego. He thinks “Deshawn Watson got that much and I’m better than him so I should get more.” 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

I honestly don’t know why they didn’t negotiate in earnest after season 3. Maybe he rightly suspected the deals would start to get nutty if he waited another year (they did.) that could have also been a mistake on his part sure, since the more he played into that rookie deal, the more risk of injury (which also happened.) 

 

All the reports were that right after Josh Allen signed his contract, Lamar was offered a 5-year for a little more per year money.

[starrymessenger]

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Not sure what you mean about not playing out the rookie contract.  Players sign "extensions" to their rookie contracts.

Josh signed before his 4th season.  Technically this is the first year of Josh Allen's 6-year extension.

Well what I meant to say was that after his third year he was potentially looking at waiting two years for a new contract (if the Ravens extended). That's when agents start agitating for a new contract assuming they are representing talents like Lamar.

[Billl]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

Well, there are a dozen games he didn’t play, and he didn’t help. Most of them in the last 2 seasons. As he ages and slows, I don’t know that that will improve.  That hurts his value in my mind.   🤷‍♂️

 

I love the guys winning percentage, and he’s fun to watch. I’m just not going to do anything that will set a bad precedent and possibly cripple the franchise for this, however. 

So $133m guaranteed won’t cripple a franchise, but $180m will?

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Lamar, we don’t want to pay you if you get hurt trying to win games for us.  Also, you’re a bum if you don’t risk your career by playing injured.

Nobody said that. I don’t think he should play if he’s hurt. See TT and the Dolphins. The 💯 guarantee is what he’s hung up on. The team doesn’t want to be on the hook for a guy not contributing. It’s a risk at 60% but at 100 with a guy who has been injured shouldn’t be that hard to fathom. 

 

[starrymessenger]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

All the reports were that right after Josh Allen signed his contract, Lamar was offered a 5-year for a little more per year money.

If that's true I wonder why he would refuse at least entering into a negotiation. It would have been normal and prudent to do so.

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

All the reports were that right after Josh Allen signed his contract, Lamar was offered a 5-year for a little more per year money.

I was wondering about that and trying to think back but can't remember for sure

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Nobody said that. I don’t think he should play if he’s hurt. See TT and the Dolphins. The 💯 guarantee is what he’s hung up on. The team doesn’t want to be on the hook for a guy not contributing. It’s a risk at 60% but at 100 with a guy who has been injured shouldn’t be that hard to fathom. 

 

Nobody’s dragged Lamar for not playing last year?  Are you serious?

[Augie]

Just now, Billl said:

So $133m guaranteed won’t cripple a franchise, but $180m will?

 

I’m not negotiating his deal, or defending the team. All the other QB’s are able to get their deals done. Reasonable people with experienced representation. Piece of cake! Done deals all over. 

 

Lamar is the outlier. Why is that? What is different? He wants 100% guaranteed which is a precedent set by the idiot Browns owner, and his Mommy is his agent. This is pretty simple, and I’m tiring of it, nothing personal. 

[starrymessenger]

Just now, Billl said:

Nobody’s dragged Lamar for not playing last year?  Are you serious?

But I do drag him for not being on the sidelines with his teammates during the playoff game. 

[Don Otreply]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

If that's true I wonder why he would refuse at least entering into a negotiation. It would have been normal and prudent to do so.

One has to consider we are talking about Lamar Jackson, who is neither normal  nor prudent…

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

If that's true I wonder why he would refuse at least entering into a negotiation. It would have been normal and prudent to do so.

 

It just seems like it might be that he wants out of Baltimore is my guess

[QLBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

So $133m guaranteed won’t cripple a franchise, but $180m will?

Well I guess it’s possible? Since it’s $47m more … 

[JoPoy88]

9 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Basic pride/ego. He thinks “Deshawn Watson got that much and I’m better than him so I should get more.” 

Honestly, that’s a big part of it I’d bet. And, while we can debate which one is actually the better QB, Lamar, to his credit:

1. Has the better W-L record (yes I know wins are team stats, not QB stats);

2. Has an MVP;

3. Isn’t a complete scumbag.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Well I guess it’s possible? Since it’s $47m more … 

 

How about you and I split that spare change???   😋

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

It just seems like it might be that he wants out of Baltimore is my guess

Well maybe there has been too much under the bridge at this point, but I tend to think the Ravens have acted professionally throughout and shown abundance of respect. Sorry but to me this is on Lamar. I truly regret this mess because I think Lamar has probably worsened his situation and to all accounts he's not only a unique talent but a great guy.

[Chicken Boo]

8 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Basic pride/ego. He thinks “Deshawn Watson got that much and I’m better than him so I should get more.” 

 

I don't fault Lamar for wanting a fully guaranteed contract.  I think that's where the league is headed with the star QBs anyway.  

 

It may be what you stated earlier about Biscotti having to put the guaranteed amount in escrow.  Part of me understands, but it's not like Stevie boy can't afford it.

[QLBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

Nobody’s dragged Lamar for not playing last year?  Are you serious?

On this thread ? I’ve seen he’s been injured brought up. I may have missed where people said he should play hurt on here. If so my miss, I certainly don’t agree that should be held against him. But he has been injured.
And I think you have to admit that his contentious approach hasn’t been helpful. The other teams aren’t offering deals because they would totally screwed if the Ravens match. These are all issues that he created. 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

I was wondering about that and trying to think back but can't remember for sure

 

2 years is a long time ago in football.  Us Bills fans have not had to concern ourselves the way Raven fans have during that time.

Can you imagine this message board if the roles were reversed?

 

I'm not anti-Lamar fan, but I truly believe that without an agent he has no knowledge of the effects this has on the Ravens organization.

Not just the financing of his contract but the aftereffects he has created.  Agents not only attempt to get what they can from the team,

but they also know how to help the team in working through these huge contracts to keep the team competitive.

 

The Bills had the opportunity to restructure Josh Allen's 1st true year of his contact yesterday to help the team.

The Ravens are stuck with uncertainty and probably will have to live with Lamar's tag which can't be restructured.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

2 years is a long time ago in football.  Us Bills fans have not had to concern ourselves the way Raven fans have during that time.

Can you imagine this message board if the roles were reversed?

 

I'm not anti-Lamar fan, but I truly believe that without an agent he has no knowledge of the effects this has on the Ravens organization.

Not just the financing of his contract but the aftereffects he has created.  Agents not only attempt to get what they can from the team,

but they also know how to help the team in working through these huge contracts to keep the team competitive.

 

The Bills had the opportunity to restructure Josh Allen's 1st true year of his contact yesterday to help the team.

The Ravens are stuck with uncertainty and probably will have to live with Lamar's tag which can't be restructured.

 

 

Yeah I had always thought that he wouldn't benefit from not having an agent sooner or later

[DCofNC]

22 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

All the reports were that right after Josh Allen signed his contract, Lamar was offered a 5-year for a little more per year money.

And he should have taken it, the money he stood to “lose” by signing early, was/would have been easily made up in the time value of the money.  Had he signed them and had a reasonable investor take his signing bonus to make him money, he’d be up 50-100% on that right now and be looking at another handful of restructures that hand him more bags of cash.  Instead he tried to maximize the per year cash and waited, it was a stupid gamble and he’s cost himself a fortune, then got hung up on an outlier contract that he again needs to move on from because he now has exactly zero leverage and is going to play for less than he should even in his prime negotiation phase.   Lesson to the youngsters, if you wouldn’t hire your mom to be you surgeon if she wasn’t one, you shouldn’t be hiring her as an agent if she wasn’t one.  Ego and emotion have cost the man millions if not hundreds of millions at this point.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

And he should have taken it, the money he stood to “lose” by signing early, was/would have been easily made up in the time value of the money.  Had he signed them and had a reasonable investor take his signing bonus to make him money, he’d be up 50-100% on that right now and be looking at another handful of restructures that hand him more bags of cash.  Instead he tried to maximize the per year cash and waited, it was a stupid gamble and he’s cost himself a fortune, then got hung up on an outlier contract that he again needs to move on from because he now has exactly zero leverage and is going to play for less than he should even in his prime negotiation phase.   Lesson to the youngsters, if you wouldn’t hire your mom to be you surgeon if she wasn’t one, you shouldn’t be hiring her as an agent if she wasn’t one.  Ego and emotion have cost the man millions if not hundreds of millions at this point.

 

"A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."

[DCofNC]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

"A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."

Perfect.

[BarleyNY]

46 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Plenty of teams are giving out QB guarantees… but nothing close to 100%

Giving out guarantees at signing for up to 3 seasons seems to be the generally accepted limit. Cousins got a fully guaranteed contract - but it was only 3 seasons. I believe that only Cleveland went beyond that to 5.

Edited March 15, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Chicken Boo]

19 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

"A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."