Your Gut Instinct: Are Beane/McDermott On Track to Win Championship(s) or Wasting J. Allen's talent?

[Chaos]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Don't do polls. 

 

This is a good example of why.

 

 

boo f'n hoo

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It always bugged me how the Bills got credit for the great job they did bringing Allen along when in fact the Bills screwed up Allen's rookie year. 

 

First they clearly didn't intend to play him that year and blew the offense up.  The 2018 Buffalo O had to be one of the worst collections of offensive talent in Bills history. Second since they didn't plan on starting Allen he didn't get many 1st team reps through training camp and the preseason games. And instead of STARTING training camp with a veteran QB in the room to help Allen they had 2nd year Nathan Peterman on hand.

 

But all their plans went up in smoke when Peterman started against the Ravens and had one of the worst QB performances in NFL history.  So the next week Allen is thrown to the wolves.  IMO Allen rose above the bad circumstances that the Bills organization dealt him in 2018.  Now to be fair Bean/McD recognized that they had screwed up and over the 2nd half of the 2018 season and in 2019 they added better offensive players and a couple of vets in the QB room to help Allen out.

 

You are spot on though when you say that the Bills should have built around Allen since day 1.  Instead with the exception of Diggs the Bills have gone bargain basement shopping when it comes to committing draft & FA capitol to the offense surrounding Allen.  And in today's NFL this is the wrong approach to take.  Hopefully McD/Bean understand this and start correcting it immediately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey now...be careful throwing around facts and logic. 

[jlgarsh]

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

I have lost faith in Frazier's defense.

 

The only sniff he has had at a championship was riding Dungy's coattails with Indy as an assistant in 2006.

 

Just feels like he fields a decent unit that relies on a system discipline that does not present issues for better teams to successfully plan against and attack.

 

Hence why our defense is a sieve in those bigger games. He gets outcoached.

 

I am not reacting in a knee-jerk way. Just look at the numbers with our defense in big games.

 

If the Bills are truly an Org that holds players and coaches accountable... and objectively review performance, at some point they have to ask the question could that coordinator position be improved?

 

If they are not asking that question, they should be.

 

 

To be fair, he was a starter on the 85 Bears.as a coach though, it’s a yikes

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Hey now...be careful throwing around facts and logic. 

Surely you don't want Jones back?

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I think it’s also fair to question why we make running a screen play look more difficult than landing a man on Mars. This is a serious question for any of you X’s and O’s guys. Why can a decent high school program do that more effectively than the Bills? Are we tipping it somehow with formation or personnel groupings or something? 

 

I’m more positive than most people (especially in this thread), but that is very confusing to me. 

Screens and draw plays as well.  I suspect that the lack of screens may be related to the OL struggling to block in the open field.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

They don't have the kind of athletes on offense with the physical talent to create offense for themselves. Diggs, as great a technician as he is, has the athleticism of a 5th rounder. He runs phenomenal routes and has great hands but he isn't a real threat after the catch. Davis, similarly, is a fourth rounder. Knox a third. McKenzie and Shakir are both 5th rounders. The Bills just don't have guys on offense with the kind of elite athleticism that can succeed outside play design or scheme.

That's because we're too busy drafting defensive players in the first 2 rounds.

[Meatloaf63]

5 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Not a complete excuse, but

1. coming to a new team mid-season meant that he had to learn a whole new offense and develop relationships with his new teammates

2. He was also playing Special Teams which drew some of his attention away from learning the new offense

3. The OL was really struggling so RBs needed to be held in to block more often than usual 

4. Singletary and Cook were both playing well ahead of him

 

Do you really think that they purposely drafted Cook and traded for Hines, both pass catching backs, and then forgot about using them?  I think more likely, circumstances like the above made incorporating the backs into the passing game difficult.

 

Specifically regarding Hines, imagine starting a new job at a different company.  Do you think you will understand everything and perform all roles immediately?

San Fran had no trouble inserting McCafrey into the lineup. More likely Dorsey was in over his head and didn’t properly use the tools Beane gave him.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Screens and draw plays as well.  I suspect that the lack of screens may be related to the OL struggling to block in the open field.

 

 

…..or a phone booth. 😋

 

I kid, mostly. Good point about draws. That’s another head scratcher to me. It just shouldn’t be so hard. We need to do some self scouting, because we seem to have some serious tells. I pray Dorsey gets some help and can prove he’s up to this. No shame in looking for help. 

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

It's already too late. Fraizer is the DC for the Bills next year. 

Thanks for ruining my night LOL…

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

They would need to be careful to bring a defensive coordinator they can work with the players. We have not the players that they need to run a new defense. That is the issue that you run into switching out that defensive coordinator.
 

They were number one in de dVOA during the regular season when you’re making big decisions, they’re gonna fall back to the numbers

 

Get better players at the positions of weakness don’t overhaul the team

That is arrogant

Do you think fans are not gonna show up for 13 and three team?

If we can’t win with a Josh Allen, then we are likely never going to win a super bowl. At some point people are going to spend their time doing something else. Every year of football and it’s getting harder and harder to justify the time investment. If we can’t win a super bowl during Allen’s tenure, I’m likely done watching the NFL. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

If we can’t win with a Josh Allen, then we are likely never going to win a super bowl. At some point people are going to spend their time doing something else. Every year of football and it’s getting harder and harder to justify the time investment. If we can’t win a super bowl during Allen’s tenure, I’m likely done watching the NFL. 

Do you think bills fans are going to stop being bills fans for somebody that has been around long enough to be on the Buffalo Bills message board? I think you know better than this we lived through two decades of no playoffs. The fans are not going anywhere.
 

Come on man

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Come on man

Typically this statement is a sign of dementia onset. I hope you are well. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Chaos said:

Typically this statement is a sign of dementia onset. I hope you are well. 

Why not include the whole quote

 

Bills fans have been through the tough times and still supported this team they’re not going anywhere

 

And if you just got here, you’re a bandwagon fan

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Do you think bills fans are going to stop being bills fans for somebody that has been around long enough to be on the Buffalo Bills message board? I think you know better than this we lived through two decades of no playoffs. The fans are not going anywhere.
 

Come on man

I’ve been a fan for a long time, not as long as some of you but old enough to have seen a lot. Super bowl years were soul crushing, but the last few years are starting to do me in. At least during the decades of suck, there was hope we could attain super bowl glory years. Now we have an elite QB, more elite than Kelly, and we are still struggling to bring one home. I’m willing to be a fan as long as Josh Allen is our QB and will likely continue being a fan of Allen brings home a super bowl victory, but if he can’t by the time he retires, I’m likely done being a Bills fan. It’s just not worth it at that point. I’ve never lurked in the shadows before, even during the bad years, but year after year after year of fail even with elite talent is depressing. 

[Chaos]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Why not include the whole quote

 

Bills fans have been through the tough times and still supported this team they’re not going anywhere

 

And if you just got here, you’re a bandwagon fan

Well I started going to Bills games in the 80's and then when I got too old, i shifted to watching on TV. I am not sure if that is your definition of a bandwagon fan or not..

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Well I started going to Bills games in the 80's and then when I got too old, i shifted to watching on TV. I am not sure if that is your definition of a bandwagon fan or not..

Honestly a lot of us have been Bills fans for years. Beaten and battered. We show up and cheer no matter what. But this last year actually weighed on me like no other. For the first time ever, I contemplated is all of the time worth this. I never thought I’d ever get to that point. I never even felt like that during the drought years. I’m not even sure why. I think a super bowl victory will cure all these weird feelings, but if Josh can’t bring us one over the coming years, it’s probably going to take my fandom enjoyment to new lows. Which I never thought this moment would come or was even possible. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by IronMaidenBills

[SinceThe70s]

51 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Don't do polls. 

 

This is a good example of why.

 

 

 

Do you mean that you don't do polls or folks shouldn't post polls? 

 

I didn't vote on this one. Choices appear to be biased towards one point of view.  

 

I assume those that think Josh isn't capable of winning a SB are the usual trolls. Probably same with the low percentage drought-truthers.

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Do you mean that you don't do polls or folks shouldn't post polls? 

 

I didn't vote on this one. Choices appear to be biased towards one point of view.  

 

I assume those that think Josh isn't capable of winning a SB are the usual trolls. Probably same with the low percentage drought-truthers.

Josh is more than capable of winning a super bowl. But I’m not sure our GM or coach has what it takes to surround Josh with enough talent to win. Which is sad, because I’m not sure we will ever get a QB as good as Josh ever again. We are basically wasting him. 

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’ve been a fan for a long time, not as long as some of you but old enough to have seen a lot. Super bowl years were soul crushing, but the last few years are starting to do me in. At least during the decades of suck, there was hope we could attain super bowl glory years. Now we have an elite QB, more elite than Kelly, and we are still struggling to bring one home. I’m willing to be a fan as long as Josh Allen is our QB and will likely continue being a fan of Allen brings home a super bowl victory, but if he can’t by the time he retires, I’m likely done being a Bills fan. It’s just not worth it at that point. I’ve never lurked in the shadows before, even during the bad years, but year after year after year of fail even with elite talent is depressing. 

Well that’s you. What makes you think that one fan determines what the fan base feels

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Well that’s you. What makes you think that one fan determines what the fan base feels

I’m not saying all bills fan will leave, but I have to assume there are quite a few like me who have been fans for a very long time that are losing hope and feel like they are wasting time and resources on a team that will never figure it out.

[John from Riverside]

13 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Well I started going to Bills games in the 80's and then when I got too old, i shifted to watching on TV. I am not sure if that is your definition of a bandwagon fan or not..

I’m not calling you a bandwagon fan

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

I’m not saying all bills fan will leave, but I have to assume there are quite a few like me who have been fans for a very long time that are losing hope and feel like they are wasting time and resources on a team that will never figure it out.

Not enough to make an iota of difference

[SinceThe70s]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

Josh is more than capable of winning a super bowl. But I’m not sure our GM or coach has what it takes to surround Josh with enough talent to win. Which is sad, because I’m not sure we will ever get a QB as good as Josh ever again. We are basically wasting him. 

 

If you are  "not sure our GM or coach has what it takes to surround Josh with enough talent to win"  how can you state definitively that "We are basically wasting him"?

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m not calling you a bandwagon fan

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, SinceThe70s said:

 

If you are  "not sure our GM or coach has what it takes to surround Josh with enough talent to win"  how can you state definitively that "We are basically wasting him"?

I’ve seen enough talent from Josh to know he has the same abilities as Mahomes and Burrow. So that got me thinking why such a disparity. Then I do a roster to roster to roster comparison and begin to realize that the difference is coaching and talent. It’s not a Josh Allen problem. We are only winning because of him. You put him on a team like SF or Philly and you are talking about a multi year dynasty. 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’ve seen enough talent from Josh to know he has the same abilities as Mahomes and Burrow. So that got me thinking why such a disparity. Then I do a roster to roster to roster comparison and begin to realize that the difference is coaching and talent. It’s not a Josh Allen problem. We are only winning because of him. You put him on a team like SF or Philly and you are talking about a multi year dynasty. 

You seem to understand what you see. Kudos. 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

You seem to understand what you see. Kudos. 

We only have Diggs. And that’s a problem. When he’s taken away, Allen regresses. Look at all the top teams and they have two reliable options or a good coach that can scheme. If we had another AJ Brown to pair with Diggs, we are likely talking super bowl right now. Oline and elite WR to pair with Diggs is what this team needs. 

[SinceThe70s]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I’ve seen enough talent from Josh to know he has the same abilities as Mahomes and Burrow. So that got me thinking why such a disparity. Then I do a roster to roster to roster comparison and begin to realize that the difference is coaching and talent. It’s not a Josh Allen problem. We are only winning because of him. You put him on a team like SF or Philly and you are talking about a multi year dynasty. 

 

I disagree that we are only winning because of Josh. But I do think we are considered to be an elite team (at least outside of this board) in large part due to him. That's pretty much life in the NFL.  

 

I disagree that Burrow and Josh have the same abilities. Josh can do things that Burrow is physically incapable of. Burrow does things that either Josh can't or won't - not sure whether that's on Josh or the coaches - coaches have been the popular choice lately.

 

 

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I disagree that we are only winning because of Josh. But I do think we are considered to be an elite team (at least outside of this board) in large part due to him. That's pretty much life in the NFL.  

 

I disagree that Burrow and Josh have the same abilities. Josh can do things that Burrow is physically incapable of. Burrow does things that either Josh can't or won't - not sure whether that's on Josh or the coaches - coaches have been the popular choice lately.

 

 

Burrows has huge cajones as a QB.  He does some things that Josh simply does not need to do, because of Josh's physical talents.  Burrows can't do anything Josh can't do. 

[John from Riverside]

29 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I didn’t mean you specifically I mean people that just got to the board

[Chaos]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I didn’t mean you specifically I mean people that just got to the board

fair enough

[Doc Brown]

My gut instinct is McDermott/Beane will follow the career paths of Tomlin/Colbert, Harbaugh/Newsome, and Carroll/Schneider.  They'll have their team in the playoffs nearly every season and eventually they'll cash in at least one of those lottery tickets.  

Edited February 5, 2023 by Doc Brown

[SinceThe70s]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Burrows has huge cajones as a QB.  He does some things that Josh simply does not need to do, because of Josh's physical talents.  Burrows can't do anything Josh can't do. 

 

Can Burrow leap tall buildings defenders in a single bound? Has he punished defenders trying to tackle him?  Can he make the off-platform throws as effortlessly and accurately as Josh?

 

And none of my comments should be interpreted as a slight to Burrow.  

 

I would like to understand your cahones comment better. I'd put Josh far ahead of any other QB in the league in that department - albeit something Josh needs to dial back. 

 

 

 

[Chaos]

Just now, SinceThe70s said:

 

Can Burrow leap tall buildings defenders in a single bound? Has he punished defenders trying to tackle him?  Can he make the off-platform throws as effortlessly and accurately as Josh?

 

And none of my comments should be interpreted as a slight to Burrow.  

 

I would like to understand your cahones comment better. I'd put Josh far ahead of any other QB in the league in that department - albeit something Josh needs to dial back. 

 

 

 

Burrows steps up and stands in a pocket and delivers pinpont passes just prior to be crushed by the defense better than any QB I have ever seen.  This is the reason he has the Joe Cool moniker. 

[SCBills]

I really want to vote for “on track” but I couldn’t pull the trigger. 
 

Thus far:

 

-Failed to build an OL for Josh

 

-Failed to keep up in the arms race

 

-Drafting has been mediocre

 

-Defensive HC, which will result in constant Offensive shifts 

 

-Defensive HC, with a defense that fails in the playoffs 

 

Hard to find the optimism with where we stand currently.   I would very much welcome them changing my opinion this off-season.  

[Milanos Milano]

22 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I really want to vote for “on track” but I couldn’t pull the trigger. 
 

Thus far:

 

-Failed to build an OL for Josh

 

-Failed to keep up in the arms race

 

-Drafting has been mediocre

 

-Defensive HC, which will result in constant Offensive shifts 

 

-Defensive HC, with a defense that fails in the playoffs 

 

Hard to find the optimism with where we stand currently.   I would very much welcome them changing my opinion this off-season.  

I feel like this team was so bad for so long that it took a lot of time to build this team. There is no denying with Allen and Diggs we will always be competitive. I voted for not on track, but I’m willing to give them 1 more offseason to correct the obvious needs. There is no denying we need another opposite WR to help Diggs, there is no denying we need O-line help. If Beane address and fixes this issue, it will go a long ways to giving me hope for the 2023 season. 

If we come out of the draft with a WR that runs sub 4.4 and has 1,000+ yards against legit talent and a bunch of mean o-linemen I’m willing to switch my vote to on track. This is the make or break year for my faith in Bean and McD. 

[Doc Brown]

50 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Burrows steps up and stands in a pocket and delivers pinpont passes just prior to be crushed by the defense better than any QB I have ever seen.  This is the reason he has the Joe Cool moniker. 

I'd argue the beginning of Andrew Luck's career if that's the criteria.

[Nihilarian]

Bills fans have have recently shown me that most have no patience for building a SB team. Todays society wants instant gratification...like a drive up window type service. They see other teams like the Rams & Bucs build it quick and win it all and want the same. They are anomalies and not the norm!

 

 

THE most successful NFL franchise the last 15-20 years has been our hated enemy the New England Patriots. The current had the NFLs best HC and HAD the NFL's GOAT at QB. Since losing Brady they haven't won much since and he won a SB with the Bucs.

 

Second best team has been the Kansas City Chiefs, 162 games, 117 wins, 45 losses. Their HC Andy Reid had built a playoff team in his first season going from a 2-14 season without to an 11-5 with. Let's face it, the man knew who to hire as his assistant coaches and how to build a disciplined team. He managed that with QB Alex Smith.(who Buffalo also went after at the time). Reid realized that Smith was just a game manager and wasn't going to get him to the big dance. 

 

Hence he traded up with Buffalo to get Patrick Mahomes, a player that wasn't graded very highly and was from an "air raid" scheme. Mahomes was like 4th rated behind Trubisky, Kizer, Watson. You know who was rated 6th, Nathan Peterman.

 

It took SEVEN years for Reid to take his KC Chiefs to the SB and this was with an experienced HC who was a 14 year winning HC with the Philadelphia Eagles. In which it took him SIX years to get his Eagles into a SB with McNabb at QB... they lost to NE 21-24 in 2004. (You know who his ST's coach was that season?)

 

Reid is basically an offensive genius with currently one of the best young QB's in the league.  It takes time and some good fortune to get a team to the SB.

 

Bills fans forget that this is Brandon Beane's, McD's first time at GM, HC and they are still learning as they go. 

 

Hopefully now they have learned that they need a much, much better offensive line and a better pass rush. More than one top pass rusher too. (Probably should have found a way to keep Jerry Hughes) I have faith that these men can get the job done for the Buffalo Bills. 

 

13-3 with all the freakin adversity that this team faced this season is nothing short of brilliant IMHO. Injuries, sickness, snowstorms, blizzards a home game in a different city. A HEART ATTACK on the field during a game and the HC knew the right thing to do. These are some great men this franchise has running it and Bills fans should just stop with all this negative crap! 

[ProcessTruster]

On track to win a championship.  Without question.   55 wins in 4 seasons just does not lie.   The roster is better every year.   Injuries to key players tanked this year, but that won't happen every year.  

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That's because we're too busy drafting defensive players in the first 2 rounds.

 

The regime has actually drafted 12 players in rounds 1 and 2. The balance is slightly tilted to defense but not as much as people imagine - 7 to 5. The problem has been talent evaluation not just strategy - three of those seconds are Zay Jones, Cody Ford and now James Cook (who unless they commit to using more is not going to provide value on investment). 

[ChiGoose]

Living in Chicago and being a part of a family that is mostly Browns fans, I would be cautious against assuming the grass is greener on the other side. 
 

With very few exceptions, winning a Super Bowl is a combination of being good and being lucky.

I feel like the recipe for winning is to be very good for as long as possible and hope you get lucky. The Bills seem to be following that philosophy. 

 

While McDermott and Beane are not above criticism, they have put together a consistent contender and I have a hard time assuming we can just replace one or both of them and improve.