An honest question...

[Charles Romes]

55 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

What player that this regime has selected on the OL that would give you confidence they could replace Dawkins

Morse

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

43 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

More premium Assets into the Defense.  I agree with you that is what McD needs to have his defense.  Heck with the OL or Josh's weapons.

 

But wait! It sounds like you don't like their teambuilding philosophy, WHICH IS WHAT THIS FRICKING THREAD IS ABOUT.

 

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Sure I can play hindsight. 

 

Basham, Yep I probably would take Creed Humphrey over Basham at this point, granted that means Morse would be gone so younger at the position but likely a wash in terms of improvement on the OL.

 

Epenesa I dont think I would take Ezra Cleveland over him though.

Oliver is a Top 10 DT

Milano is also a Top LBer you hear it very week

 

Glenn is not a Bill but you are correct here

Show me one reason to believe Oliver is a top 10 DT, he’s not the clear cut best DT on his own team FFS. 
 

My bad, Glenn was better than Dawkins and we still don’t have a top 10 LT. 
 

Milano has an argument to be in the top 10 at his position, but he’s out plenty so there’s no way you can call him irreplaceable, he has to be replaced in season all the time.  

[PrimeTime101]

I argued with a few of you a couple weeks ago that we are not the most "complete" team in the league. I got laughed at. But I think there are a mix of things going wrong with this team and instead of arguing over positional value I think we should be looking at the bigger picture. So I will break down every starting position and will break down some play calling decisions as well. This post I am more evaluating groups rather than individual players.

 

QB No issues. Josh is going to have games he struggles and when he does you hope the rest of your team will pick up.

 

Playmakers. RB's WR's TE's. I right now have no problem with our RB's. TE we are average at worst, and I am ok with that. I think for the line we have and getting making deadline changes we are fine. WR position is become more of an issue for me, and we need to get better here. Davis has had 1 great game last year in playoffs and has not lived up to what we thought he would turn out to be. Davis needs more time to just get better. Though Diggs has some breakaway speed, I feel we are missing that deep threat speed on the other side that is going to make safety's scratch their head and wonder what way to cover deep and when someone does break it deep it either takes to long of a progression or the biggest problem on the team lets us down. 

 

Offensive Line. I swear 2-3 of these guys do not start on a large chunk of teams in the NFL. There is a balance of great playmakers and an offensive line. For me the right recipe for having a bad offensive line is a good recipe for Receivers... Example Diggs, Smoke and Beasley. Because we no longer have that mix of speed, short distance rout running and long-distance rout running... the line is going to look ever worse than it is. May I remind you of a dude named Peyton Manning. Till he had a healthy mix of solid offensive line and weapons they struggled. 3 out of his first 4 years he could not win more than 10 games a year cause of a horrible offensive line.

This line is HORRIBLE outside of our LT and C.

 

Offensive Coaching. This is borderline annoying for me because I really like our OC but for every great play call he is making a drive, I feel he is making 2 knucklehead calls a drive. Draw plays on second down. Second down and long you can just tell a short play call was made. I feel JA is trying to hard on drives that do not have a chance. Settling for FG's in the redzone instead of forcing the QB into making long play decisions against teams like the Jets is bad decision. Josh is not god. There has to be situational awareness in our play calling and I feel we lack it at times.

 

 

Offensive side of the ball. New OC, Bad mix of playmakers to offensive line ratio. The line can't be fixed but there are some fixes in our future. I have been an OBJ hater for years BUT... If he still has that amazing straight-line speed and solid rout running IF he passes all health concerns. To make up for things I think we need to look at Hines and Cook more going deep routs and grabbing Safety's attention more often even if as a decoy for shorter stuff to be wider open, then so be it. DONT hit the panic button yet. (next year if we do not invest heavy on offensive line in draft ima gunna be upset) (and not mid round picks either....)

 

Defensive side of the ball. I am not going to reach into this "bag of tricks" we all darn well know if healthy we the best defensive unit in the league. PERIOD. We have been forced to ask backups to do way to much for 7 games.  We need Tre back... We need Milano back. We need Poyer back. End of story. The pressure put on this DC do to injuries, is immense.

 

In short? we can rip on every position being replaceable or replaceable all day long. Welcome to loosing Mondays. I normally avoid the forums like the plague on days like this but,,, I just wanted to get this out there and thought this was the best thread to do so.

 

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

>.>

 

I think i've been clear in other threads he's played horribly. Let me phrase this in a way you'll more easily understand:

 

Do you think the offense would function more efficiently with a better #2 wideout and a competent running game so that 17 doesn't have to be perfect every week?

 

Or, do you think it's more valuable to continue to waste capital on DE/DT/CB year in and year out?

 

I’d lean towards the issue being that no one is stepping up as the third receiving option. Diggs and Davis used to get shut down for stretches during games, but Beasley and Knox stepped up and won their 1 on 1’s to either move the chains or hit a big play. This season Allen has resorted to RB dump offs instead which haven’t been as effective/consistent. Say what you want about Beasley, but he excelled at making catches at the sticks when the game got tough. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I’d lean towards the issue being that no one is stepping up as the third receiving option. Diggs and Davis used to get shut down for stretches during games, but Beasley and Knox stepped up and won their 1 on 1’s to either move the chains or hit a big play. This season Allen has resorted to RB dump offs instead which haven’t been as effective/consistent. Say what you want about Beasley, but he excelled at making catches at the sticks when the game got tough. 

Agree completely. Beasley was a HUGE outlet for Josh.

Was hoping Shakir would take over there but McDermott has him squarely in the dog house

 

[Royale with Cheese]

We are 6-2, have beaten the AFCW, AFCN and AFCS leaders and currently sit a top of the AFC standings.  But now we have 51 replaceable players like we are a bottom 5 team lol.

[Donuts and Doritos]

After 1 loss by 3 pts everyone not named Allen, Diggs or Miller are bums we can & should "easily" replace... Got it. Thank you.

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Donuts and Doritos

[CorkScrewHill]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

A possible answer. But he's got some injury concerns, hasn't had a full season yet 

This is true if any team … r.g. Name 4 players in the Chiefs or any other team that are not replaceable. 
 

I also think that Groot may get there soon. Losing him for the second half hurt

[Royale with Cheese]

On 11/22/2021 at 6:31 AM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

No SB

Probably no playoffs. Have them 3-4 over the last 7.

 

 

You went doom and gloom last year.  

[Simon Says]

Why not title this with something more fitting than "an honest question"?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You went doom and gloom last year.  

 yeah, I did, and in retrospect was wrong.

 

This year I won't predict total collapse. But I won't pretend I like their philosophy when it comes to giving all premium draft selections to the defense, nor will I lie about what I think about some of the more over-rated players on this roster here on TSW.

 

2 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

Why not title this with something more fitting than "an honest question"?

 

I'll make sure to consult with you next time, ok?

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 yeah, I did, and in retrospect was wrong.

 

This year I won't predict total collapse. But I won't pretend I like their philosophy when it comes to giving all premium draft selections to the defense, nor will I lie about what I think about some of the more over-rated players on this roster here on TSW.

 

 

Every year we have a bad stretch...every year.

 

The Bills beat the Chiefs, Titans and Ravens who are all on top of their division.  Nothing said.

We lose to the Jets...all of a sudden we have a terrible roster and everyone but two can be replaced.

 

If that's really the case, McDermott is an unbelievable coach because he's won two consecutive division titles with only 2 good players.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Every year we have a bad stretch...every year.

 

The Bills beat the Chiefs, Titans and Ravens who are all on top of their division.  Nothing said.

We lose to the Jets...all of a sudden we have a terrible roster and everyone but two can be replaced.

 

If that's really the case, McDermott is an unbelievable coach because he's won two consecutive division titles with only 2 good players.

 

Ok, guy.

 

So then you tell me who else is irreplaceable on the team outside of those two. Who else's loss would sink the season?

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Ok, guy.

 

So then you tell me who else is irreplaceable on the team outside of those two. Who else's loss would sink the season?

 

 

 

It doesn't matter what player I give, you'll argue against it.  But every time you argue against it, you're arguing that McDermott is an excellent coach.

If a coach can win divisions with a roster that only has 2 good players, he's great.  

 

Top to bottom, this is a very good roster and consensus top 3 in the league.

 

Why didn't you create this thread after we beat the Chiefs, Titans and Ravens?  

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Who in this team outside of Josh Allen couldn't be replaced?

 

Stefon Diggs?

 

I can't come up with too many other names, and that's troubling. I'm starting to look at beane and McDermott like I do James Franklin. That is to say, they're guys who were able to resurrect a dead program, but I'm afraid they're incapable of actually elevating the program to the pinnacle.

 

Can you name any other players on the roster who aren't easily replaceable? 

An honest question...how much time do you give them? I mean, I'm in my 24th season as a very respected head coach. Some on TBD would actually prefer me as your HC 😂. It took me 6 years to get to my 1st SB and McDermott is in year 6. It took another 15 years to finally win a SB. And that was after 7 years in KC. In my first 5 years as an NFL coach, my record was 51-29, while McDermott had a 49-32 record. That's 1 SB trophy in 23 seasons and you want to call for McDermott's head?!? Unless you're Bill Belichick, WTH are we talking about here? 

Sincerely,

Andy Reid 

[GunnerBill]

Tre White and Von Miller. 

 

It has been my argument that I think Beane is VERY good (in fact elite) at getting guys who can play. He has very few busts. His record of drafting stars beyond Josh is not the best. Your favourite whipping boy is the next closest. 

[brianthomas]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Disagree 2,3,4. Can maybe see a case for 1,5. But the only one I'll solidly agree on is tre white 

I'm not saying i disagree bcuz we know how good a player Tre is.

But we've literally replaced his play with 2 rookie cb's in week 1, so we evidently can replace him & still be okay

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Dopey said:

An honest question...how much time do you give them? I mean, I'm in my 24th season as a very respected head coach. Some on TBD would actually prefer me as your HC 😂. It took me 6 years to get to my 1st SB and McDermott is in year 6. It took another 15 years to finally win a SB. And that was after 7 years in KC. In my first 5 years as an NFL coach, my record was 51-29, while McDermott had a 49-32 record. That's 1 SB trophy in 23 seasons and you want to call for McDermott's head?!? Unless you're Bill Belichick, WTH are we talking about here? 

Sincerely,

Andy Reid 

 

The fact that we are 6-2 with a terrible roster is actually really impressive of McDermott.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Who in this team outside of Josh Allen couldn't be replaced?

 

Stefon Diggs?

 

I can't come up with too many other names, and that's troubling. I'm starting to look at beane and McDermott like I do James Franklin. That is to say, they're guys who were able to resurrect a dead program, but I'm afraid they're incapable of actually elevating the program to the pinnacle.

 

Can you name any other players on the roster who aren't easily replaceable? 

 

Your thead is way off in its reasoning IMO.  Maybe you should look at it from the concept of a "team".  The team wins and the team loses.

Josh could be replaced with a player like Mahomes.  Every player on every team could be replaced with another player.

It's about winning with the "team" that you have.

 

A GM gathers the players, the coaches plan the way the team plays, and the players go out onto the field and play the game.

Yesterday was a perfect example on how a team can win and a team can lose.  The Jets outplayed the Bills as a team.

The Bills lost because they did not play up to their potential.  

[MAJBobby]

38 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

But wait! It sounds like you don't like their teambuilding philosophy, WHICH IS WHAT THIS FRICKING THREAD IS ABOUT.

 

No your thread is about their Evaluation.  My complaint is McD gets everything he needs for his defense and here is his patch work protection of their Franchise QB

 

Vlad Ducasse

Dion Dawkins - Top 10 LT (Draft)(2nd Round Pick)

Russel Bodine

Marshall Newhouse

Spencer Long

Jon Feliciano

Mitch Morse - Top C (UFA)

Ty Nsekhe

LaAdrian Waddle

Cody Ford (Draft) (2nd Round Pick)

Quinton Spain

Evan Boehm

Garrett McGhin

Daryl Williams

Ike Boettger

Bobby Hart

Jamil Douglas

Forrest Lamp

Spencer Brown (Draft) (3rd)

Jake Anderson (Draft) (7th)

Tommy Doyle (Draft) (5th)

Rodger Saffold

Greg Mancz

Ryan Bates 

 

 

So my count (alot more UFAs too that were fodder) 19 UFAs

5 Draft Picks

 

And got 2 upper echelon OL.

 

If they do have an evaluation problem it is with their ability to find OL, but then again maybe tell Sean he doesnt get to use all the money and premium picks on defense for once.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Your thead is way off in its reasoning IMO.  Maybe you should look at it from the concept of a "team".  The team wins and the team loses.

Josh could be replaced with a player like Mahomes.  Every player on every team could be replaced with another player.

It's about winning with the "team" that you have.

 

A GM gathers the players, the coaches plan the way the team plays, and the players go out onto the field and play the game.

Yesterday was a perfect example on how a team can win and a team can lose.  The Jets outplayed the Bills as a team.

The Bills lost because they did not play up to their potential.  

 

A team is, by definition, a collection of players. If the players aren't good enough, then the team isn't good enough.

 

That's the problem I think we're facing with groups like the OL and the WRs.

 

Outside of Diggs, Morse and MAYBE Dawkins, the rest just aren't good enough.

 

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

No your thread is about their Evaluation.  My complaint is McD gets everything he needs for his defense and here is his patch work protection of their Franchise QB

 

Vlad Ducasse

Dion Dawkins - Top 10 LT (Draft)(2nd Round Pick)

Russel Bodine

Marshall Newhouse

Spencer Long

Jon Feliciano

Mitch Morse - Top C (UFA)

Ty Nsekhe

LaAdrian Waddle

Cody Ford (Draft) (2nd Round Pick)

Quinton Spain

Evan Boehm

Garrett McGhin

Daryl Williams

Ike Boettger

Bobby Hart

Jamil Douglas

Forrest Lamp

Spencer Brown (Draft) (3rd)

Jake Anderson (Draft) (7th)

Tommy Doyle (Draft) (5th)

Rodger Saffold

Greg Mancz

Ryan Bates 

 

 

So my count (alot more UFAs too that were fodder) 19 UFAs

5 Draft Picks

 

And got 2 upper echelon OL.

 

If they do have an evaluation problem it is with their ability to find OL, but then again maybe tell Sean he doesnt get to use all the money and premium picks on defense for once.

 

At this point, I think we're talking past each other. I agree that they've absolutely sucked at building an OL, and may even be worse with evaluating receivers.

 

And how the HELL did you remember Jamil Douglas being on the team?

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

A team is, by definition, a collection of players. If the players aren't good enough, then the team isn't good enough.

 

That's the problem I think we're facing with groups like the OL and the WRs.

 

Outside of Diggs, Morse and MAYBE Dawkins, the rest just aren't good enough.

 

Then McDermott is an excellent coach because the vast majority of his roster is "just not good enough".  

 

Poyer...not good enough.

Hyde...not good enough.

White...not good enough.

Von Miller....not good enough.

Milano....not good enough.

DaQuan....not good enough.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

Then McDermott is an excellent coach because the vast majority of his roster is "just not good enough".  

 

Poyer...not good enough.

Hyde...not good enough.

White...not good enough.

Von Miller....not good enough.

Milano....not good enough.

DaQuan....not good enough.

 

Reading is fundamental, RiC.

 

That post was speaking specifically about WR and OL

 

Do try and keep up

 

[MAJBobby]

8 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

A team is, by definition, a collection of players. If the players aren't good enough, then the team isn't good enough.

 

That's the problem I think we're facing with groups like the OL and the WRs.

 

Outside of Diggs, Morse and MAYBE Dawkins, the rest just aren't good enough.

 

At this point, I think we're talking past each other. I agree that they've absolutely sucked at building an OL, and may even be worse with evaluating receivers.

 

And how the HELL did you remember Jamil Douglas being on the team?

 

I had to look some up. 

 

And believe me I left off at least another 10 guys that were on the team for like a cup of coffee....

 

I think they evaluate fine, JUST SPEND THE ASSETS.  Other than Diggs and Josh the offense has never been a Focus of McD.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

I had to look some up. 

 

And believe me I left off at least another 10 guys that were on the team for like a cup of coffee....

 

I think they evaluate fine, JUST SPEND THE ASSETS.  Other than Diggs and Josh the offense has never been a Focus of McD.

 

And yet, the needle of performance on defense hasn't moved in any significant way. Why is that? Given all the investment, it should be the best of the best, and it's just not.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

A team is, by definition, a collection of players. If the players aren't good enough, then the team isn't good enough.

 

That's the problem I think we're facing with groups like the OL and the WRs.

 

Outside of Diggs, Morse and MAYBE Dawkins, the rest just aren't good enough.

 

 

LOL you are totally right, and I bow to your wisdom.  The Bills should be the 1st team in NFL history to have All Pro HOFer's in

every position.  I mean really, how hard can that be!

 

Seriously, the Bills lost to an inferior team.  There are a ton of bad things in "hindsight" that caused it.  As a fan I'll watch next

Sunday's game and hope the "team" plays better (or they can lose again).  That's the way sporting events go.

 

The Bills put together an organization that has them able to be on top of the hill.  Getting up there for a moment is very hard.

It's also extremely hard to stay up there.  If you lose focus for just a moment another team wanting to get there will knock you down.

It's as simple as that for me.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

LOL you are totally right, and I bow to your wisdom.

 

 

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

 

The thing that makes it difficult for me is, I live in Eagles country. I see the offense they've built in a couple seasons with a MUCH inferior QB, and I wonder to myself why the Bills couldn't do the same. AJ Brown is a monster opposite Devonta Smith while ALSO building a monster running game AND having a really solid top-to-bottom defense.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

And yet, the needle of performance on defense hasn't moved in any significant way. Why is that? Given all the investment, it should be the best of the best, and it's just not.

 

 

It is the topped Ranke Defense in the NFL.  I just think it is easier to win with the top ranked Offense.  Look at MIA two LETHAL WRs and doesnt matter their defense cannot stop anything.

Edited November 7, 2022 by MAJBobby

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

It is the topped Ranke Defense in the NFL.  I just think it is easier to win with the top ranked Offense.  Look at MIA two LETHAL WRs and doesnt matter their defense cannot stop anything.

 

Doesn't keep them from winning, though, does it?

 

I'll refrain from a trite 13 seconds mention when it comes to the defense.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

You're missing the point. I'm saying beane and McDermott have done a pretty meh job of talent evaluation, especially in the past 3 drafts.

6 and 2……..

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

6 and 2……..

 

yes. for now.

 

 

[Dopey]

7 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

And yet, the needle of performance on defense hasn't moved in any significant way. Why is that? Given all the investment, it should be the best of the best, and it's just not.

 

 

It's hard to get much better than a top 3 defense. 

We are currently :

1st in points against in the NFL

4th in total yds given up in the NFL

5th in pass yds given up in the NFL

6th in rush yds given up in the NFL

But hey, keep pushing that bull💩 line. 

 

 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Doesn't keep them from winning, though, does it?

 

I'll refrain from a trite 13 seconds mention when it comes to the defense.

 

 

If you are trying to get me to say I think they focus on the wrong group far too often, I will say that, they built the Top Defense in the NFL.  I would rather them take those assets and build around their Franchise QB.

 

But at the end of the day the team and the way they bult it is 

55–33 (.625) and the most winning coach in Franchise History

Been to the playoffs every year but one

 

They are also now with the top Defense in the league a 6-2 record  and top in the AFC and AFCE

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Dopey said:

It's hard to get much better than a top 3 defense. 

We are currently :

1st in points against in the NFL

4th in total yds given up in the NFL

5th in pass yds given up in the NFL

6th in rush yds given up in the NFL

But hey, keep pushing that bull💩 line. 

 

 

K.

Well, sure did a fantastic job against a garbage one-dimensional Jets offense yesterday.

 

Loved that tackling, how about you? Also some fantastic pass-rush-win-rating going on too.

 

 

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

If you are trying to get me to say I think they focus on the wrong group far too often, I will say that, they built the Top Defense in the NFL.  I would rather them take those assets and build around their Franchise QB.

 

But at the end of the day the team and the way they bult it is 

55–33 (.625) and the most winning coach in Franchise History

Been to the playoffs every year but one

 

They are also now with the top Defense in the league a 6-2 record  and top in the AFC and AFCE

We'll see how that defense looks in the postseason.

 

because in reality, that's what matters.

 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

 

The thing that makes it difficult for me is, I live in Eagles country. I see the offense they've built in a couple seasons with a MUCH inferior QB, and I wonder to myself why the Bills couldn't do the same. AJ Brown is a monster opposite Devonta Smith while ALSO building a monster running game AND having a really solid top-to-bottom defense.

 

 

 

The Eagles have had very good result so far this season.  They might even win the Superbowl.  Then again, they could lose

their first playoff game.  We'll have to watch all the games and see what happens.  The Eagles won a SB with a backup QB one year.

The Patriots won more SB's that anyone with a GOAT QB and a constant changing cast of players.  There is no one way.

 

 

The Rams won last year and everyone and their dog thought they had the path to greatness figured out.  They probably won't

make the playoffs this year.  It's sports.

 

[Mango]

4 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Dion Dawkins, yes he drew a penalty late (has anyone seen it yet?) but he's been a quietly above average LT. 

 

I actually think Dawkins is highly replaceable. He is good but not great. I am very open to him moving inside if the Bills really like a LT high in the draft. We could possibly upgrade two positions with one draft pick. 

I think Mitch Morse is our best OL by a wide margin. I am nervous about our cap situation and his contract expiring this year. 

 

I think Poyer and Hyde have proven their weight in gold. We are likely spoiled with our safety play. I think the play recognition that both Hyde and Poyer possess covers up a lot of defensive deficiencies. 

[Dopey]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

K.

Well, sure did a fantastic job against a garbage one-dimensional Jets offense yesterday.

 

Loved that tackling, how about you? Also some fantastic pass-rush-win-rating going on too.

 

 

Quote

And yet, the needle of performance on defense hasn't moved in any significant way. Why is that? Given all the investment, it should be the best of the best, and it's just not.

Way to deflect. I replied to you saying the defense hasn't moved in any significant way. You were shown by at least 2 people that the Bills have the #1 defense (depending on metrics used). It's hard to move in a significant way when you're #1, unless it's a down turn. I'm sure that's not what you were referring to . 

[MAJBobby]

11 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

K.

Well, sure did a fantastic job against a garbage one-dimensional Jets offense yesterday.

 

Loved that tackling, how about you? Also some fantastic pass-rush-win-rating going on too.

 

 

We'll see how that defense looks in the postseason.

 

because in reality, that's what matters.

 

 

20 Points.  The NFL Front Runner for MVP and the explosive offense should be able to score more than 20 on a weekly.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

20 Points.  The NFL Front Runner for MVP and the explosive offense should be able to score more than 20 on a weekly.  

 

no doubt, no doubt.

 

I'm not excusing the offense by criticizing the defense. they both sucked. on ice.