Miami home field sun advantage and why this is wrong on so many levels

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

This is a pointless excuse considering the Bills and many other teams have fared well in Miami during previous september games.

 

Also what is the NFL supposed to do force Miami to build a new stadium??

 

Greg Rousseau grew up in Miami and played at the U and said it was one of two hottest games he's every played in.  The other game was a Georgia Tech game played in the later afternoon. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

The reason I posted earlier to suck it up and quit crying is we played in Miami on Sept. 19th last year. It got up to 90 degrees that day and we won 35-0. That 90 degrees was not field temperature, so I'm sure it was hotter on the field. I don't recall ANYONE here at TBD complaining about the heat and wanting to change start times. We also seem to relish Miami going to Buffalo in December. Why? You know. 

Sounds like crying and whining to me, along with a touch of hypocrisy. Again, suck it up and quit crying. Miami beat us.

Mowing down here in Fl. I can tell you it's probably a 20 degree difference.

 

Clearly it wasn't the same as players were not having heat related illnesses and dropping like flies last year.

[Billever76]

27 minutes ago, Dopey said:

It's a clear advantage, sure. Like having Miami come to Buffalo in December. Did you complain last year after we beat Miami, in Miami, on a September day that reached over 90 degrees on the field? If we were able to overcome that advantage last year, what's so different this year? Oh, we lost. 

Again one team faces the elements fully in miami while miami has a shaded area.....there is a clear advantage....if you don't think so go get an outdoor job working in the field all day and compare it to one working under a pavilion lol

Maybe Buffalo should build a structure in the new stadium that covers the Bills bench and has radiant heat and leave the visitors side open like Antarctica 

[Dopey]

7 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Clearly it wasn't the same as players were not having heat related illnesses and dropping like flies last year.

We outplayed Miami, but made too many mistakes to win. From dropping TD passes, to dropping a pick 6, to missing a very makeable field goal, to not getting a play off before halftime, to not getting that last play in. That's why we lost. 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

The visiting team is only allowed to use what the home team is using. So if the Dolphins don’t use cooling benches, the Bills cannot use them. Doesn’t matter if they flew them in. 

I think that needs to be the item that’s addressed. Totally unnecessary 

[Billever76]

Just now, Dopey said:

We outplayed Miami, but made too many mistakes to win. From dropping TD passes, to dropping a pick 6, to missing a very makeable field goal, to not getting a play off before halftime, to not getting that last play in. That's why we lost. 

Again in a game with heat as extreme as what it was being in the shade when off the field makes a huuuuuuge difference 

[Beast]

4 minutes ago, Dopey said:

We outplayed Miami, but made too many mistakes to win. From dropping TD passes, to dropping a pick 6, to missing a very makeable field goal, to not getting a play off before halftime, to not getting that last play in. That's why we lost. 

 

Add in not scoring on 2nd and goal from the 1.

 

The Bills dominated the game but made some very uncharacteristic mistakes. Exhaustion related? Probably. 

 

Either way, good teams sometimes lose to inferior opponents. There is absolutely nothing to gain by dwelling on this loss. 

 

Get healthy and this team will be contending in late January/ early February.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Beast

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Again one team faces the elements fully in miami while miami has a shaded area.....there is a clear advantage....if you don't think so go get an outdoor job working in the field all day and compare it to one working under a pavilion lol

Maybe Buffalo should build a structure in the new stadium that covers the Bills bench and has radiant heat and leave the visitors side open like Antarctica 

 I started off by acknowledging it's a clear advantage. I also replied to a post to the affect of the heat. I live in the armpit of Fl. (Tallahassee) and it gets brutal out here. Worse for me is we get NO breeze. I mow my lawn and my daughter's too. Pretty big lawns and I can tell you, shade makes a difference. A big difference. A 20 degree difference. My point is, NO ONE complained about this last year. Because we won, handily. So now we complain?!

[Billever76]

Just now, Dopey said:

 I started off by acknowledging it's a clear advantage. I also replied to a post to the affect of the heat. I live in the armpit of Fl. (Tallahassee) and it gets brutal out here. Worse for me is we get NO breeze. I mow my lawn and my daughter's too. Pretty big lawns and I can tell you, shade makes a difference. A big difference. A 20 degree difference. My point is, NO ONE complained about this last year. Because we won, handily. So now we complain?!

I don't think many people even think about it tbh ..I know I never did...but the more you look at it and examine it I seriously think it's a clear cut upper hand for the dolphins and it goes beyond homefield advantage 

[Dopey]

19 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Again in a game with heat as extreme as what it was being in the shade when off the field makes a huuuuuuge difference 

I AGREED. At least twice. It's called home field advantage. Should we stop fans from cheering loudly when the opposing team can't hear on the field? EX. Seattle.  

1 minute ago, Billever76 said:

I don't think many people even think about it tbh ..I know I never did...but the more you look at it and examine it I seriously think it's a clear cut upper hand for the dolphins and it goes beyond homefield advantage 

Fine. We disagree.

Go Bills!!

[Ned Flanders]

7 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

The nfl just needs to postpone games when the heat index is over 90 in Miami. Why have the players risk injury completely unnecessarily? When it can be so easily avoided. 

The NFL doesn't "postpone" games but it can simply schedule Florida September games in the 4:05/4:25 window...that would be a little better.

[Billever76]

Just now, Dopey said:

I AGREED. At least twice. It's called home field advantage. Should we stop fans from cheering loudly when the opposing team can't hear on the field? EX. Seattle.  

It's not home field advantage..homefield is like Denver where the team is acclimated to the weather....this is akin to bills having a heated structure over the Bills sidelines only while the visitors side is open to the elements and 20 to 30 degrees colder

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's not home field advantage..homefield is like Denver where the team is acclimated to the weather....this is akin to bills having a heated structure over the Bills sidelines only while the visitors side is open to the elements and 20 to 30 degrees colder

There are players that complain about playing at the altitude Denver's stadium is. Makes it harder to breathe if you're not acclimated. Some players can't even make the trip, if they have certain medical conditions. It is an advantage for Denver to play at home vs. a team that is not used to playing in that high altitude. Watching a ton of SEC and ACC football, home side vs. visitor's side is a big deal because of the heat and sun. It's been like this since I can remember, along with the Dolphins advantage, Bucs advantage, Jags advantage. It was over 100 degrees in Tempe AZ. when the Cards played a home game. They lost. Again, it just seems some are complaining about it because we lost. Where was this concern last year? There was no concern displayed on TBD last year.

[frostbitmic]

Does the entire team need to be on the sidelines ?  (serious question)

 

There should be no rules on keeping warm or cool on the sidelines, any rule preventing a team from cooling itself on a 90 degree day would be as stupid as not allowing a team from using heaters or coats in Green Bay in January.

 

Despite the heat, the Bills outplayed the Dolphins in every part of the game except the scoreboard. They have nothing to blame but themselves for the loss.

[Mango]

44 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I think that needs to be the item that’s addressed. Totally unnecessary 

Totally agreed. That is be my entire gripe. I don’t mind the sun or temperature change. But teams should be allowed to try and navigate it. 
 

Inversely, could you imagine if the Bills layered up on a cold day and the opposing team had no jackets or heated benches. 
 

Being in the cold is the home field advantage; not the ability to get warm. 

[Royale with Cheese]

41 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Add in not scoring on 2nd and goal from the 1.

 

The Bills dominated the game but made some very uncharacteristic mistakes. Exhaustion related? Probably. 

 

Either way, good teams sometimes lose to inferior opponents. There is absolutely nothing to gain by dwelling on this loss. 

 

Get healthy and this team will be contending in late January/ early February.

 

I actually was shocked we couldn't get in.  

 

I think the reason why we didn't have Allen sneak it because of the new center.  Eric Wood said as a center, the hardest snap is the goaline or 3rd and inches.  Immediately once you snap it, as a center, you have two guys hitting you on both sides.  There wasn't enough chemistry between Allen and Mancz at that point.

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Does the entire team need to be on the sidelines ?  (serious question)

 

There should be no rules on keeping warm or cool on the sidelines, any rule preventing a team from cooling itself on a 90 degree day would be as stupid as not allowing a team from using heaters or coats in Green Bay in January.

 

Despite the heat, the Bills outplayed the Dolphins in every part of the game except the scoreboard. They have nothing to blame but themselves for the loss.

It can be 30 degrees cooler on the Miami sideline. Reports yesterday were that in the sun it was between 110-120. That means it is a manageable 80 and shady on the other side of the field. 

[Billever76]

14 minutes ago, Dopey said:

There are players that complain about playing at the altitude Denver's stadium is. Makes it harder to breathe if you're not acclimated. Some players can't even make the trip, if they have certain medical conditions. It is an advantage for Denver to play at home vs. a team that is not used to playing in that high altitude. Watching a ton of SEC and ACC football, home side vs. visitor's side is a big deal because of the heat and sun. It's been like this since I can remember, along with the Dolphins advantage, Bucs advantage, Jags advantage. It was over 100 degrees in Tempe AZ. when the Cards played a home game. They lost. Again, it just seems some are complaining about it because we lost. Where was this concern last year? There was no concern displayed on TBD last year.

Again both teams have to play in the same weather at denver....Denver players don't have any other advantage besides being acclimated to the weather..the same as Bills in buffalo..Arizona in Zona or pats in foxboro....that's not the point 

14 minutes ago, Dopey said:

There are players that complain about playing at the altitude Denver's stadium is. Makes it harder to breathe if you're not acclimated. Some players can't even make the trip, if they have certain medical conditions. It is an advantage for Denver to play at home vs. a team that is not used to playing in that high altitude. Watching a ton of SEC and ACC football, home side vs. visitor's side is a big deal because of the heat and sun. It's been like this since I can remember, along with the Dolphins advantage, Bucs advantage, Jags advantage. It was over 100 degrees in Tempe AZ. when the Cards played a home game. They lost. Again, it just seems some are complaining about it because we lost. Where was this concern last year? There was no concern displayed on TBD last year.

Again the cards sideline isn't 100% shaded while the visitors roast you have nothing but false equivalencies when it comes to a structure put in place to give Miami players and personal a cooler and safer environment than the visitor sideline

Edited September 26, 2022 by Billever76

[Gen2]

8 hours ago, Stretch said:

I’m sorry, but I don't see this as cheating.  It’s smartly building an advantage.

 

How far will the league let a team go in "building in an advantage"?

 

for example;

 

When the Bills build their new stadium can they put the visitors dressing room on the third floor with only stairs for access? Can they build the staircase with narrower than normal treads, can they vary the rise between the steps to greatly increase the probability of somebody falling down the stairs or at least twisting an ankle or knee?

 

Can they put the staircase to the visitor's locker room about a block away that can only be accessed via dimly lit tunnels that have indiscriminately placed changes in elevations and steps? 

 

Can they design the stadium, so the shape creates a venturi effect with the winter winds that dumps it directly onto the visitor's bench?

 

Don't get me wrong, it makes no difference to me if we win or lose the third game of the season, I'm only interested in making the playoffs and winning the LAST game of our season. The construction of hard rock stadium, and the rule that allows the home team to dictate which jerseys the visitors wear DEFINATLY create a "home field" advantage.  

Edited September 26, 2022 by Gen2

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, Billever76 said:

Again both teams have to play in the same weather at denver....Denver players don't have any other advantage besides being acclimated to the weather..the same as Bills in buffalo..Arizona in Zona or pats in foxboro....that's not the point 

You keep repeating yourself. I get it. Shade, no shade. And I keep repeating myself: why the complaints this year and not last year? Answer: we won last year, handily. That's crybaby stuff, right there. 

[frostbitmic]

2 minutes ago, Gen2 said:

 

How far will the league let a team go in "building in an advantage"?

 

for example;

 

When the Bills build their new stadium can they put the visitors dressing room on the third floor with only stairs for access? Can they build the staircase with narrower than normal treads, can they vary the rise between the steps to greatly increase the probability of somebody falling down the stairs or at least twisting an ankle or knee?

 

Can they put the staircase to the visitor's locker room about a block away that can only be accessed via dimly lit tunnels that have indiscriminately placed changes in elevations and steps? 

 

Can they design the stadium, so the shape creates a venturi effect with the winter winds that dumps it directly onto the visitor's bench?

 

Don't get me wrong, it makes no difference to me if we win or lose the third game of the season, I'm only interested in making the playoffs and winning the LAST game of our season. The construction of hard rock stadium, and the rule that allows the home team to dictate which jerseys the visitors wear DEFINATLY create a "home field" advantage.  

They could build the Bills bench out of the wind, rain and snow but the opponents bench can be out in the open, getting hit dead in the face by 0 degree winds and snow squalls, rain etc.

 

Seattle's stadium is designed to make it louder when their fans are screaming. Denver is at altitude, domes make things equal... Use what mother nature gives you.

[Billever76]

5 minutes ago, Dopey said:

You keep repeating yourself. I get it. Shade, no shade. And I keep repeating myself: why the complaints this year and not last year? Answer: we won last year, handily. That's crybaby stuff, right there. 

Ultimately it's is a player safety issue first and foremost and 2nd it is almost a form of cheating imo

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, frostbitmic said:

They could build the Bills bench out of the wind, rain and snow but the opponents bench can be out in the open, getting hit dead in the face by 0 degree winds and snow squalls, rain etc.

 

Seattle's stadium is designed to make it louder when their fans are screaming. Denver is at altitude, domes make things equal... Use what mother nature gives you.

 

Design a cone in the tunnels and have the wind blow directly on the Dolphins sideline.  

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Ultimately it's is a player safety issue first and foremost and 2nd it is almost a form of cheating imo

Again, we agree to disagree. That's what I like about this board. 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Dopey

[Billever76]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Design a cone in the tunnels and have the wind blow directly on the Dolphins sideline.  

And add radiant heat on our sidelines lol

[frostbitmic]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Design a cone in the tunnels and have the wind blow directly on the Dolphins sideline.  

Confuse the winds so it doesn't snow on the Buffalo sideline yet leave the Miami sideline in waist deep drifts.

 

And if they're going to schedule a Bills game in Miami in September @1:00, they need to schedule Miami at Buffalo at 8:00 the final game of the season.

[Billever76]

Just now, Billever76 said:

And add radiant heat on our sidelines lol

But seriously that's how crazy this could become...ok it's an advantage in miami so now what's to stop the other teams from redesigning their stadiums for their own advantages and how far can it go...it can't be ok for one team and not the other.....the elements are one thing but two totally different sidelines is actually pretty crazy lol..genius but borderline unfair at the least 

[UKBillFan]

5 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Again, we agree to disagree. That's what I like about this board. 

 

 

I think it's fine as long as it doesn't affect the player's health. When you have the opposing quarterback seemingly throwing up on the sideline and others breaking down from the heat then it should be looked into.

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, Dopey said:

You keep repeating yourself. I get it. Shade, no shade. And I keep repeating myself: why the complaints this year and not last year? Answer: we won last year, handily. That's crybaby stuff, right there. 

 

I will give repeating myself a go. Haha. 

Weather didn't cost us a game. I don't care about any of it. Shade v no shade. I don't care about the altitude in Denver. It is all fine. 

The one thing I do take issue with is that teams can't use reasonable tools that are normally available to help navigate the game. Using Denver as an example, everybody is using O2. What if it is 5 degrees out and the new stadium is built on a hot spring, but it only warms the Bills sideline? Under current rules visitors couldn't use a heated bench. As a Buffalo fan I would say that is a BS homefield advantage. 

It is a rule I didn't know or care that much about before my team was effected by it. I won't deny that. But I also think there is a very real need to change the rules. 

The equity rule should likely only be for in game communication and technology and the NFL should have an "always available" list for sideline equipment that includes heated/cooling benches, heaters, fans, misters and oxygen. 

[Dopey]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

I think it's fine as long as it doesn't affect the player's health. When you have the opposing quarterback seemingly throwing up on the sideline and others breaking down from the heat then it should be looked into.

I've been saying it's called home field advantage, but I don't totally disagree with at least looking into this and have the competition committee discuss it. I don't expect any changes to start times. My point all along was how there wasn't a single peep about the heat last year on TBD. And it was hot for last year's game in Miami, also played in mid Sept. But we won the game, so no complaints. 

[UKBillFan]

Just now, Dopey said:

I've been saying it's called home field advantage, but I don't totally disagree with at least looking into this and have the competition committee discuss it. I don't expect any changes to start times. My point all along was how there wasn't a single peep about the heat last year on TBD. And it was hot for last year's game in Miami, also played in mid Sept. But we won the game, so no complaints. 

 

Just posted elsewhere about last year's match. Last year we were far more balanced between defense and offense because we weren't shredded on one side of the ball. This year we prolonged the offense's time on the field to protect the defense, but it ended up to the detriment of the offense.

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Just posted elsewhere about last year's match. Last year we were far more balanced between defense and offense because we weren't shredded on one side of the ball. This year we prolonged the offense's time on the field to protect the defense, but it ended up to the detriment of the offense.

I can see the offense trying to help out that way. It was a close game. A buddy commented on it being a dog fight, but we made too many mistakes and that's what cost us. Milano didn't drop a pick 6 because of the heat, Davis didn't drop that TD because of the heat. Bass didn't miss the FG because of the heat. The heat wasn't the reason we didn't get the play off before halftime. The heat wasn't the reason we didn't get the ball snapped in time to spike it for a final FG attempt. 

21 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I will give repeating myself a go. Haha. 

Weather didn't cost us a game. I don't care about any of it. Shade v no shade. I don't care about the altitude in Denver. It is all fine. 

The one thing I do take issue with is that teams can't use reasonable tools that are normally available to help navigate the game. Using Denver as an example, everybody is using O2. What if it is 5 degrees out and the new stadium is built on a hot spring, but it only warms the Bills sideline? Under current rules visitors couldn't use a heated bench. As a Buffalo fan I would say that is a BS homefield advantage. 

It is a rule I didn't know or care that much about before my team was effected by it. I won't deny that. But I also think there is a very real need to change the rules. 

The equity rule should likely only be for in game communication and technology and the NFL should have an "always available" list for sideline equipment that includes heated/cooling benches, heaters, fans, misters and oxygen. 

I can agree to this. 👍

[UKBillFan]

9 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I can see the offense trying to help out that way. It was a close game. A buddy commented on it being a dog fight, but we made too many mistakes and that's what cost us. Milano didn't drop a pick 6 because of the heat, Davis didn't drop that TD because of the heat. Bass didn't miss the FG because of the heat. The heat wasn't the reason we didn't get the play off before halftime. The heat wasn't the reason we didn't get the ball snapped in time to spike it for a final FG attempt. 

I can agree to this. 👍

 

I do think a lot of mistakes on offense, particularly late on, were down to mental and physical fatigue though. Bass and Milano didn't have as much of an excuse.

[The Hub]

8 hours ago, Dopey said:

This happens all the time down here for college games. It’s called home field advantage. Suck it up and quit crying, TBD. 

Exactly, thank God the team isn't as soft as the Mafia.

[Billever76]

21 minutes ago, The Hub said:

Exactly, thank God the team isn't as soft as the Mafia.

Lmao what stadium does that happen to besides hardrock...its the only stadium designed that way 

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

You keep repeating yourself. I get it. Shade, no shade. And I keep repeating myself: why the complaints this year and not last year? Answer: we won last year, handily. That's crybaby stuff, right there. 

 

Because it was a lot cooler and mostly cloudy....

 

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/fl/miami/KMIA/date/2022-9-25

 

Yesterday:

Time Temperature Dew Point Humidity Wind Wind Speed Wind Gust Pressure Precip. Condition

12:53 PM89 °F72 °F57 %ESE6 mph0 mph29.89 in0.0 inPartly Cloudy

1:53 PM89 °F73 °F59 %ESE9 mph0 mph29.86 in0.0 inMostly Cloudy

2:53 PM88 °F74 °F63 %E10 mph0 mph29.84 in0.0 inPartly Cloudy

3:53 PM88 °F75 °F65 %E13 mph0 mph29.82 in0.0 inMostly Cloudy

 

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/fl/miami/KMIA/date/2021-9-19

Last year:

Time Temperature Dew Point Humidity Wind Wind Speed Wind Gust Pressure Precip. Condition

12:53 PM88 °F76 °F67 %E9 mph0 mph30.01 in0.0 inMostly Cloudy

1:40 PM81 °F75 °F82 %VAR3 mph0 mph30.00 in0.1 inHeavy T-Storm

1:53 PM81 °F76 °F85 %W7 mph0 mph30.00 in0.2 inT-Storm

2:53 PM77 °F75 °F94 %CALM0 mph0 mph29.98 in0.4 inT-Storm

3:13 PM78 °F75 °F90 %CALM0 mph0 mph29.97 in0.0 inMostly Cloudy

3:53 PM81 °F76 °F85 %CALM0 mph0 mph29.96 in0.0 inMostly Cloud

 

We had a lot of the same players last year and they weren't suffering like this. You literally have players laying on the ground, and throwing up. Like wtf guys. Let them have shade when off the field.

 

All we are saying is the visitor bench should be allowed to have shade, and cooling benches. Miami doesn't use them because they built their stadium in the damn shade.

 

Like someone else said, we should just build our bench enclosed in the new stadium and say "hey we aren't using heaters, you can't either.".

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by What a Tuel

[UKBillFan]

Have we really got to the point of reviewing the weather from September 2021? 😅

[daz28]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

I think it's fine as long as it doesn't affect the player's health. When you have the opposing quarterback seemingly throwing up on the sideline and others breaking down from the heat then it should be looked into.

This certainly effects players health.  It's a fact known by everyone that athletes DO die from heat stress.  Why on God's green Earth wouldn't the league and NFLPA agree that keeping the players safe is JOB ONE!  I certainly would happily give up watching football if I knew it would save one single life.  It boggles me that taking the risk of killing someone would be considered a "home field advantage" when it could be easily avoided. 

[Mr. WEO]

So the Bills are uniquely constructed to NOT be able to play in:

 

Wind

 

Rain

 

Heat

 

 

what about late Fall, when the leaves change?  color confusion deficit?

[Gen2]

An easy way to correct the "problem" with the bench arrangement at hard rock stadium is for the NFL to make a rule that the visiting team in all games gets to choose which bench they want to sit on. I would hazard a guess that both sides of the field get shaded in a quick amount of time.