GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Beck Water said: Was it so much his actual performance against press outside, or was it the perception that because of his small size, the same abilities that brought him success at Boise State would falter against better DB in the NFL? The latter was my impression. I believe he actually played outside a good bit in college, but the perception was that his relatively short arms and lack of experience against the top DBs in the top college programs would cause him to translate to a gimmick guy/slot receiver in the NFL where he can no longer win with speed/quickness. One scouting report I saw spelled it out bluntly: "Making a Big Step Up in Coverage Competition" So I do think he struggled getting off press and likely with his physical limitations he always will and he doesn'y have burner speed to make up for it later in the down. It is why I think his ceiling outside is limited. You can do some stuff with him out there but it is going to have to be clever design, get him some free releases and work him out to in. I think that he could only be a gimmick guy was a perception and I always thought that was false. I think he can be a top end NFL slot receiver and that is where personally I would have him 75% of the time. I had a 3rd round grade on him. Liked him a lot. But I think there is some truth to the limitations as an outside guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: So I do think he struggled getting off press and likely with his physical limitations he always will and he doesn'y have burner speed to make up for it later in the down. It is why I think his ceiling outside is limited. You can do some stuff with him out there but it is going to have to be clever design, get him some free releases and work him out to in. I think that he could only be a gimmick guy was a perception and I always thought that was false. I think he can be a top end NFL slot receiver and that is where personally I would have him 75% of the time. I had a 3rd round grade on him. Liked him a lot. But I think there is some truth to the limitations as an outside guy. My opinion ..... his success is going to depend upon how the NFL refs the games. If they allow DBs to absolutely mug our guys the way they did in the 2020 AFCCG, he can be erased, the way Brown and Beasley were. Now, the NFL has announced that illegal contact downfield is a point of emphasis for referees this season. How will that play out? TBD. My opinion, based on pre-season playing time, is that the Bills perceive McKenzie and Shakir as the back-up outside receivers. McKenzie has improved a lot in his ability to release, but of course he's a smurf, and being held negates his legit burner speed. We'll see how Shakir fares against #1 NFL defenders, but his T Rex arms are a concern. Edited August 31, 2022 by Beck Water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, Beck Water said: My opinion ..... his success is going to depend upon how the NFL refs the games. If they allow DBs to absolutely mug our guys the way they did in the 2020 AFCCG, he can be erased, the way Brown and Beasley were. Now, the NFL has announced that illegal contact downfield is a point of emphasis for referees this season. How will that play out? TBD. My opinion, based on pre-season playing time, is that the Bills perceive McKenzie and Shakir as the back-up outside receivers. McKenzie has improved a lot in his ability to release, but of course he's a smurf, and being held negates his legit burner speed. We'll see how Shakir fares against #1 NFL defenders, but his T Rex arms are a concern. Their first move when they took Diggs out was McKenzie moves outside, Crowder onto the field in the slot. So I think you are right that is their first preference. Kumerow and Shakir got the most run outside with the 2s. They are obviously very different players. I think Kumerow is your downfield guy there while not a burner he has that physicality to get off press and the size to contest the back shoulder throws etc and Shakir would be more your "Z" receiver who is going to be off the line to try and give him more free releases and get him running into zone concepts. The Bills use Diggs and Gabe pretty interchangeably whereas I think McKenzie, Kumerow and Shakir in those roles are all a bit more scheme specific in terms of what you can do with them. It makes us a bit more predictable. As I have said all offseason if it is needing to fill a spot for a game or two the Bills will be just fine with what they have. A prolonged absence for Diggs or Gabe is tricky for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: So your issue is that good players will want to get paid? I’d rather have good players than worry about whether or not they will have to be paid years later. In my company all of the top performers want to get paid. That’s what we do to retain top talent. You can do that at the Yankees. Not so much in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Hope this team is smart and gets him in the lineup quickly and doesn't insist on wasting snaps on McKenzie, who IMO should not even be on this roster to begin with. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoros Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Charles Romes said: It’s unfathomable how he and Stevenson could be drafted in the same range. Two different drafts completely. Stevenson’s draft wasn’t deep at all, it was considered one of the weakest drafts in many years, where as, Shakir’s draft was considered one of the deepest in many years. Not all drafts are the same, even though there is always 7 rounds. 3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said: Hope this team is smart and gets him in the lineup quickly and doesn't insist on wasting snaps on McKenzie, who IMO should not even be on this roster to begin with. He will be worked in, and how much so will depend on how he does and how McKenzie does. I personally believe McKenzie is going to surprise many this year, but I also think the same of Shakir. The difference is, I believe Shakir will be moved around more, where McKenzie will be primarily slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 23 minutes ago, Bandito said: What are your reasons McKenzie should not be on the roster? Meth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Limeaid said: No my issue is players who want conracts redone early but when they are cutt they do not want Bills to get compensation on cap but I understand you have a different opinion. I also dislike players holding out and then returning to get a year credit after being out 10 games. Then take an issue with the NFL. Players should ALWAYS maximize their earnings. Every single one of us does that with our jobs. I bang mine every couple of months with leverage and they keep rolling over. It’s 2022. The employees have the power. This is ESPECIALLY true in the NFL. Stop pushing the boulder up the hill. It isn’t changing. Accept it. That’s the reality of “non-guaranteed contracts.” Hope that your team gets good players and you have to worry about paying them. I’d rather have Knox and Oliver than Sweeney and Ankou. 3 hours ago, FireChans said: You can do that at the Yankees. Not so much in the NFL. Sure you can. Teams do ALL of the time. You “find space” and move on from bad deals. It’s easy. Edited August 31, 2022 by Kirby Jackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Then take an issue with the NFL. Players should ALWAYS maximize their earnings. Every single one of us does that with our jobs. I bang mine every couple of months with leverage and they keep rolling over. It’s 2022. The employees have the power. This is ESPECIALLY true in the NFL. Stop pushing the boulder up the hill. It isn’t changing. Accept it. That’s the reality of “non-guaranteed contracts.” Hope that your team gets good players and you have to worry about paying them. I’d rather have Knox and Oliver than Sweeney and Ankou. You sound like a NFL agent. That boulder in large dung ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, Limeaid said: It's perfectly spherical! Oh the wonders of nature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, Limeaid said: You sound like a NFL agent. That boulder in large dung ball. I sound informed. I sound like someone that worked in pro sports for a long time. I sound like someone that “gets it.” I will NEVER begrudge someone that wants market value. All of us do that. It is no different. The NFL built this model to try to have “control.” The players got smart and push back when appropriate. Teams can decide to pay them the market value (see Kyler Murray) or they risk losing them. That’s the team’s decision. They don’t get the luxury of paying them “what they want.” The player’s have plenty of leverage. They should. We ALL have that with our jobs. We can either sign a contract “GUARANTEEING” us a particular amount or take what the market offers. The NFL has tried to control both of those. That doesn’t work. You can’t say, “we agreed that you were worth X but now we want to pay you Y or release you.” The players that are undervalued are saying, “we agreed to X but I’m actually worth Y. Pay me that or I’m not playing.” They’re doing THE EXACT SAME THING. Why defend the billionaires over the millionaires? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty98 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 7 hours ago, wppete said: Yup Shakir looked like a seasoned vet out there in ore season. Hopefully we see the same when it really counts…. Also Jaquan Johnson looked like a stud out there. He’s the real deal. I remember watching Shakir at the return of the Red and Blue practice, dude was looking like a 10 year vet. Subtle movements to create separation and effortless movement skills. Watching Jaquan Johnson at Miami and now in Buffalo I've been ecstatic with his development. He's not the ideal athlete you want at FS/SS, but he's an insanely smart player and has phenomenal instincts. He's always around the ball at the right time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 15 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: He reminds me of Robert Woods and not just because he wears #10. Woods could block. Maybe this kid can too one day.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills404 Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 7 hours ago, FilthyBeast said: Hope this team is smart and gets him in the lineup quickly and doesn't insist on wasting snaps on McKenzie, who IMO should not even be on this roster to begin with. It’s like you’re not even trying anymore 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 19 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Size. Release against press outside and a perception (which I am not sure was justified) that he was a gimmick guy only. Is it really release….or just the thought that he’ll get handled in the nfl due to his short arms? His release package is pretty nasty from what I’ve seen. 7 hours ago, FilthyBeast said: Hope this team is smart and gets him in the lineup quickly and doesn't insist on wasting snaps on McKenzie, who IMO should not even be on this roster to begin with. I love shakir and I hope he gets a good amount of snaps…. But Mckenzie shouldn’t even be on the roster? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 First player that came to mind when watching the film is Julian Edelman (as much as I couldn’t stand that guy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted September 1, 2022 Author Share Posted September 1, 2022 33 minutes ago, NewEra said: Is it really release….or just the thought that he’ll get handled in the nfl due to his short arms? His release package is pretty nasty from what I’ve seen. I love shakir and I hope he gets a good amount of snaps…. But Mckenzie shouldn’t even be on the roster? I can't wait to bust your chops when 29" armed Khalil Shakir is lined up outside against 29" armed Trent McDuffie. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 4 hours ago, NewEra said: Is it really release….or just the thought that he’ll get handled in the nfl due to his short arms? His release package is pretty nasty from what I’ve seen. I love shakir and I hope he gets a good amount of snaps…. But Mckenzie shouldn’t even be on the roster? It is that if a bigger press corner gets his hands on him at the line he is at an immediate disadvantage getting off that. Like a boxer with a reach disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is that if a bigger press corner gets his hands on him at the line he is at an immediate disadvantage getting off that. Like a boxer with a reach disadvantage. That’s what I’m saying…..the only thing people worry about are his short arms. His footwork and release can help make up for his short arms. This kid is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Just now, NewEra said: That’s what I’m saying…..the only thing people worry about are his short arms. His footwork and release can help make up for his short arms. This kid is awesome. I am a big fan of the player. I couldn't believe he dropped to the 5th. But I still think he is a slot with some versatility to play the Z if you can scheme him some free releases - which is what Boise did when he played wide. He didn't see a ton of press in college and when he did he wasnt the best at beating it. I think big strong NFL corners will jam him some in press looks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am a big fan of the player. I couldn't believe he dropped to the 5th. But I still think he is a slot with some versatility to play the Z if you can scheme him some free releases - which is what Boise did when he played wide. He didn't see a ton of press in college and when he did he wasnt the best at beating it. I think big strong NFL corners will jam him some in press looks. Why do you hate Shakir so much? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 As the Draft went along, he was the last WR graded above a 70. I thought the Bills had waited too long to get a WR. After him there was a massive drop off in grades, so for the Bills to get him in the 5th is good on Beane for seeing the talent dropping, and pouncing on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Why do you hate Shakir so much? He doesn't hate him. It's just his opinion and time will actually tell if he's right. 24 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: As the Draft went along, he was the last WR graded above a 70. I thought the Bills had waited too long to get a WR. After him there was a massive drop off in grades, so for the Bills to get him in the 5th is good on Beane for seeing the talent dropping, and pouncing on it. It was BPA. But flat-out luck that he lasted so long. Edited September 1, 2022 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 1, 2022 Share Posted September 1, 2022 Come here to talk about #10 and I see dragging of McKittrick. Egregious! Also he finally has a girlfriend, he has announced on IG. Haha good times for the face of the franchise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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