What are your thoughts regarding the future of the United States?

[Bad Things]

I posed this question in another thread, but thought it should be the subject of a new thread.

 

In short, I was born and raised in the USA, but moved away to New Zealand in 2005.

In the 17 years since I've been away, I've kept up with the news coming out of there, while also staying in touch with family and friends and hearing their opinions.

 

Needless to say, there seems to be more and more bad news coming out of the US, especially over the last 6 years. 

It's now gotten to where I hear people in America openly believing that the country is heading towards civil war.

 

That said, I'd really like to know how you all view the future of the country and what you expect will happen in the coming years.

 

For what it's worth, I obviously wish you ALL nothing but the best.

 

 

 

Let's go, Buffalo.

[Boatdrinks]

Civil war wouldn’t surprise me. I used to laugh at such statements but not anymore. Liberals have gone off the deep end and despise all that made America great in the first place. If I know someone is a liberal or I suspect they are due to statements they’ve made I will not engage them in conversation beyond rote pleasantries. I’m still optimistic. However I’m worried at the same time that they are growing in number , and that’s both sad and concerning. 

[ChiGoose]

We have to find a way to turn down the temperature. Americans increasingly see each other as the enemy and silo themselves from anything that contradicts their own personal beliefs.

 

We have always had problems with polarization due to a first-past-the-post election system, but the advent of social media, a fractured news environment, and the computing power to pull off severe gerrymandering have accelerated our issues and polarization. 

 

The thing that worries me is that we don’t even agree on facts anymore. How can we find a compromise on how to fix this if we can’t even agree on what reality is? I’m not sure how we come back from that and it really worries me. 

[Andy1]

The media likes to push the division between the left and right in America. Emphasizing the division helps sell and keeps people glued to the tube. 
 

At this time, the Supreme Court is dominated by conservative justices whose views are not supported by a majority of Americans. It appears that they are on the path of overturning laws that were previously considered settled law. Gay marriage rights may be next to fall. They seem to be sending the issues back to the states or congress for resolution through legislation. What we may end up with is a bunch of issues that are patchwork of laws, differing widely by state. Where you live may have a great impact on what rights you enjoy. 

On the personal level, lots of Americans need to go back to school and take civics classes to learn how to disagree without insulting each other. People need to talk with those who are different from them. When you are laying in a hospital bed, you don’t care if your doc or nurse is liberal or conservative, or white, black, Hispanic or Asian. When you get to know other people, we all have a lot in common. 
 

Talk is cheap. Anyone talking of civil war has no idea what war is about. What the hell would we be fighting about anyway? Gay marriage? Abortion? Tax policy? Signs on bathrooms? 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Andy1

[Boatdrinks]

The fighting would be about somebody else telling you how to live: i.e you must wear a mask, celebrate lbgtq “ lifestyles “ while denouncing the Police and American Institutions. Etc etc.  Part of the problem is the media to be sure, but also a lack of understanding about our Country and its system of government. The Supreme Court is not about “ views” or whether or not other Americans agree with them. It is about the United States Constitution and its amendments. The ultimate law of the land. That doesn’t waver with the political winds or popular culture of the day. The Court does not make law, but  overturning a ruling on itself is not uncommon. We are a republic of 50 States and major differences from other States can exist within their borders. 

[Big Blitz]

It's future and the security of its freedoms are in red states and their voters. 

 

 

Red States Are Winning the Post-Pandemic Economy

 

By many measures, red states—those that lean Republican—have recovered faster economically than Democratic-leaning blue ones, with workers and employers moving from the coasts to the middle of the country and Florida.

 

Since February 2020, the month before the pandemic began, the share of all U.S. jobs located in red states has grown by more than half a percentage point, according to an analysis of Labor Department data by the Brookings Institution think tank. Red states have added 341,000 jobs over that time, while blue states were still short 1.3 million jobs as of May.

 

Behind those differences is mass migration. Forty-six million people moved to a different ZIP Code in the year through February 2022, the most in any 12-month period in records going back to 2010, according to a Moody’s analysis of Equifax Inc. consumer-credit reports.

 

The states that gained the most, led by Florida, Texas and North Carolina, are almost all red, as defined by the Cook Political Report based on how states voted in the past two presidential elections. The states that lost the most residents are almost all blue, led by California, New York and Illinois.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/red-states-winning-post-pandemic-economy-migration-11657030536?mod=djemalertNEWS

 

 

Blue states are a lost cause pending an inner Democrat party revolution....until then....

 

Never vote Democrat.  

 

The country can be saved.

[Niagara Bill]

5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

The fighting would be about somebody else telling you how to live: i.e you must wear a mask, celebrate lbgtq “ lifestyles “ while denouncing the Police and American Institutions. Etc etc.  Part of the problem is the media to be sure, but also a lack of understanding about our Country and its system of government. The Supreme Court is not about “ views” or whether or not other Americans agree with them. It is about the United States Constitution and its amendments. The ultimate law of the land. That doesn’t waver with the political winds or popular culture of the day. The Court does not make law, but  overturning a ruling on itself is not uncommon. We are a republic of 50 States and major differences from other States can exist within their borders. 

But the SC has become a political weapon and does not make neutral rulings.

[Orlando Tim]

8 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

But the SC has become a political weapon and does not make neutral rulings.

The SC has a job of interpreting what is in the constitution and deciding if it is being applied through the law that is being presented to them. The fact that so many people think the SC should be deciding law on basically any other standard shows the lack of understanding of the role of the SC in the US. 

[Andy1]

The SC interprets the Constitution based upon the justices political philosophy. This is why there is an epic political battle for who gets on the court. It is also why rulings are overturned. The founding fathers had could not foresee many of the issues the court must decide today.

[All_Pro_Bills]

21 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

The SC interprets the Constitution based upon the justices political philosophy. This is why there is an epic political battle for who gets on the court. It is also why rulings are overturned. The founding fathers had could not foresee many of the issues the court must decide today.

Agreed.  My interpretation of SCOTUS rulings of late is they have almost nothing to do with the merits or legality of the specific issue or contention and everything to do with ruling against encroachments by the judicial and executive branches on the powers of the legislature granted in Article I of the US Constitution.  Simply, not the rule but who has the authority under the system to make it.  

[Niagara Bill]

57 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

The SC has a job of interpreting what is in the constitution and deciding if it is being applied through the law that is being presented to them. The fact that so many people think the SC should be deciding law on basically any other standard shows the lack of understanding of the role of the SC in the US. 

You are correct, but they are used as a political weapon, every post election sole the intended role and modern role are different. If there was a left leaning court the gun issue may be different. I understand it is a republic, but the court has increasingly been political. If the present court decision on RvW is correct then previous decisions were wrong and should never have been made.

[SoCal Deek]

27 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

The SC interprets the Constitution based upon the justices political philosophy. This is why there is an epic political battle for who gets on the court. It is also why rulings are overturned. The founding fathers had could not foresee many of the issues the court must decide today.

Andy, the Supreme Court is not there to make decisions based on what is popular with Americans. In fact, there job is the exact opposite. They're the branch that stands in the way of tyranny of the majority. It is the Legislative Branch that is rightfully concerned about the 'will of the people'....which is why they are called "representatives".  And this is exactly the reason why the Founding Fathers set the system up the way they did. The problem is not the Court. The problem is that the Legislature has gotten so concerned with getting re-elected that they keep kicking the can over to the Judiciary to make the tough decisions. The current Court is trying to fix that. To use a biblical reference, this is like Pilate and Herrod not wanting the make a judgement on the fate of Jesus.  Make sense?

[snafu]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

But the SC has become a political weapon and does not make neutral rulings.

Has become?

 

 

[BillsFanNC]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Andy, the Supreme Court is not there to make decisions based on what is popular with Americans. In fact, there job is the exact opposite. They're the branch that stands in the way of tyranny of the majority. It is the Legislative Branch that is rightfully concerned about the 'will of the people'....which is why they are called "representatives".  And this is exactly the reason why the Founding Fathers set the system up the way they did. The problem is not the Court. The problem is that the Legislature has gotten so concerned with getting re-elected that they keep kicking the can over to the Judiciary to make the tough decisions. The current Court is trying to fix that. To use a biblical reference, this is like Pilate and Herrod not wanting the make a judgement on the fate of Jesus.  Make sense?

 

Yep.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

I should also add that the Supreme Court isn’t called that because they’re a really, really, really good court. Their job is to take cases that require an interpretation of the Constitution. Everyone on here is somewhat correct….but the problem is not the Court! If you want to change the Constitution the Founding Fathers set up a process to do that, and that process has been used many times throughout our history. Once again, the problem is with the spineless, corrupted Legislative branch….on both sides of the aisle. 

[Tiberius]

12 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Civil war wouldn’t surprise me. I used to laugh at such statements but not anymore. Liberals have gone off the deep end and despise all that made America great in the first place. If I know someone is a liberal or I suspect they are due to statements they’ve made I will not engage them in conversation beyond rote pleasantries. I’m still optimistic. However I’m worried at the same time that they are growing in number , and that’s both sad and concerning. 

Seems Liberals are fighting hard to make sure democracy works. Voting rights, fighting racism, what do you mean they despise America? Liberals are the true Americans 

7 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

The fighting would be about somebody else telling you how to live: i.e you must wear a mask, celebrate lbgtq “ lifestyles “ while denouncing the Police and American Institutions. Etc etc.  Part of the problem is the media to be sure, but also a lack of understanding about our Country and its system of government. The Supreme Court is not about “ views” or whether or not other Americans agree with them. It is about the United States Constitution and its amendments. The ultimate law of the land. That doesn’t waver with the political winds or popular culture of the day. The Court does not make law, but  overturning a ruling on itself is not uncommon. We are a republic of 50 States and major differences from other States can exist within their borders. 

They lied to get on the court and then made very partisan rulings. They are a joke. They are not following the constitution but their own biased views

[Niagara Bill]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Seems Liberals are fighting hard to make sure democracy works. Voting rights, fighting racism, what do you mean they despise America? Liberals are the true Americans 

Libs would never fight a civil war. Their main objective is redistribution of wealth, war does not allow that. 

So your take is that fiscal conservatives are not real Americans, 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Libs would never fight a civil war. Their main objective is redistribution of wealth, war does not allow that. 

So your take is that fiscal conservatives are not real Americans, 

Oh, we will fight! You guys are just full of soft targets to eliminate with extreme prejudice. You think those motorcycle gangs are going to be able to drive around if any sort of violence begins? LOL, those are big fat soft targets. There are many other easy targets. There won;t be a civil war, but if they is don't think for a second you guys will have it easy, you won't. 

 

I don't think there are "fiscal conservatives." How many of the so-called fiscal Conservatives are not supporters of flooding the country with guns and controlling women's reproductive rights? Not many 

[All_Pro_Bills]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh, we will fight! You guys are just full of soft targets to eliminate with extreme prejudice. You think those motorcycle gangs are going to be able to drive around if any sort of violence begins? LOL, those are big fat soft targets. There are many other easy targets. There won;t be a civil war, but if they is don't think for a second you guys will have it easy, you won't. 

 

I don't think there are "fiscal conservatives." How many of the so-called fiscal Conservatives are not supporters of flooding the country with guns and controlling women's reproductive rights? Not many 

I expect what you envision when you say liberals will fight is that they'll use the force and power of government agents, law enforcement, and the military to do the fighting for them.  

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I expect what you envision when you say liberals will fight is that they'll use the force and power of government agents, law enforcement, and the military to do the fighting for them.  

I think we can rely on that for the most part, but Liberals are also smart and calculating. Like the North in the Civil War, or the USA in WW2, we are slow to anger, but when we are pushed we will move with the steady momentum of a mighty avalanche. 

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

53 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

You are correct, but they are used as a political weapon, every post election sole the intended role and modern role are different. If there was a left leaning court the gun issue may be different. I understand it is a republic, but the court has increasingly been political. If the present court decision on RvW is correct then previous decisions were wrong and should never have been made.

R vs W was a weak decision according to almost every honest legal scholar, including RBG. It was not a role the SC should have taken since it found a right in the constitution that is not explicitly written, or truly even referred to directly 

[Tiberius]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

R vs W was a weak decision according to almost every honest legal scholar, including RBG. It was not a role the SC should have taken since it found a right in the constitution that is not explicitly written, or truly even referred to directly 

Not one single women was in on writing the Constitution, so ya. Alito's arguments all sited men from the time before women had a right to participate in the government, 

[aristocrat]

 

[aristocrat]

36 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I think we can rely on that for the most part, but Liberals are also smart and calculating. Like the North in the Civil War, or the USA in WW2, we are slow to anger, but when we are pushed we will move with the steady momentum of a mighty avalanche. 

 

 

 

First of all a civil war is a ridiculous scenario. But I don't think you realize where the majority of the police and military lie politiically.  The military swear an oath to the constitution. The recent supreme court rulings were based on the constitution. But this is a children's argument about civil war and arguing who's side is tougher 

[ChiGoose]

I think all of this talk of things like civil war misses a more likely scenario: a slide into an illiberal democracy like Hungary.

 

Instead of advancing our democracy with reforms that will give more power to the people, we are backsliding into anti-democratic trends with things like partisan gerrymandering and laws designed to make voting harder.

 

We already live in an environment where, depending on where you live, your vote may not actually matter. Liberals in Texas and Conservatives in California are essentially disenfranchised for most statewide elections. That trend is likely to continue until we get to a point where we are so heavily polarized that most elections are predetermined and we either get a one-party government or one so inherently broken that it is incapable of addressing anything.

[Tiberius]

23 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

First of all a civil war is a ridiculous scenario. But I don't think you realize where the majority of the police and military lie politiically.  The military swear an oath to the constitution. The recent supreme court rulings were based on the constitution. But this is a children's argument about civil war and arguing who's side is tougher 

Trump tried to overthrow the constitution, so yes, that oath would put them on our side. 

 

As to Supreme Court, they cherry picked the constitution and history to make their rulings. Fine, we Dems can run in elections against the court now. These mid terms should have been an easy slam dunk for you...well...people, but not anymore 

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

I think all of this talk of things like civil war misses a more likely scenario: a slide into an illiberal democracy like Hungary.

 

Instead of advancing our democracy with reforms that will give more power to the people, we are backsliding into anti-democratic trends with things like partisan gerrymandering and laws designed to make voting harder.

 

We already live in an environment where, depending on where you live, your vote may not actually matter. Liberals in Texas and Conservatives in California are essentially disenfranchised for most statewide elections. That trend is likely to continue until we get to a point where we are so heavily polarized that most elections are predetermined and we either get a one-party government or one so inherently broken that it is incapable of addressing anything.

Let’s hold off on Texas, one day soon, it will be a Democratic stronghold. Demographics are destiny 

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Trump tried to overthrow the constitution, so yes, that oath would put them on our side. 

 

As to Supreme Court, they cherry picked the constitution and history to make their rulings. Fine, we Dems can run in elections against the court now. These mid terms should have been an easy slam dunk for you...well...people, but not anymore 

Let’s hold off on Texas, one day soon, it will be a Democratic stronghold. Demographics are destiny 

 

The independents have the lowest approval rate of Biden at about 19 percent as of last week so I don't think much is changing. Those are the people who decide elections. 

[ChiGoose]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Let’s hold off on Texas, one day soon, it will be a Democratic stronghold. Demographics are destiny 

 

I think that is far from certain. The GOP is making gains with the Latino vote. Even a small gain greatly hurts the Dems chances given how dependent they are on that demographic in Texas.

 

The Dems have generally been taking Latino voters for granted and it's beginning to show.

[T master]

13 hours ago, Bad Things said:

I posed this question in another thread, but thought it should be the subject of a new thread.

 

In short, I was born and raised in the USA, but moved away to New Zealand in 2005.

In the 17 years since I've been away, I've kept up with the news coming out of there, while also staying in touch with family and friends and hearing their opinions.

 

Needless to say, there seems to be more and more bad news coming out of the US, especially over the last 6 years. 

It's now gotten to where I hear people in America openly believing that the country is heading towards civil war.

 

That said, I'd really like to know how you all view the future of the country and what you expect will happen in the coming years.

 

For what it's worth, I obviously wish you ALL nothing but the best.

 

 

 

Let's go, Buffalo.

 

I was born in the 60's and as a young person use to work every summer on farms to make money & had to mow & rake the lawn plus do chores around the house then we would help local farmers that were both friends and family put up hay every year for their animals in the winter we too had gardens to keep up with so would could can veggies every year .

 

Now that i am much older IMPO i feel that the US has become a country full of a bunch whiny ass lazy entitled people of all races that feel just because they live in what is the best country in the world feel they are entitled to nothing short of the best of every thing some thinking that it all should be free to them also that will in no way other than going to the gym break a sweat to make a living they should have it with out working for it .

 

Sure there are some still out there willing to work for it but for the over all majority not so much . If you go to a job sight look for the fat guy or gal either sitting in a air conditioned office or the pick up truck with the air conditioning on & he or she is usually the boss while (not to be racist of condescending in any way) the biggest part of the work force is immigrants & for the most part of spanish decent because they aren't afraid to bust their ass unlike a lot of todays Americans .

 

Which is in part one huge reason why those in power continually want illegals to come in because Americans are to dam spoiled & lazy to get off their preverbal asses & work for a living if you don't believe me just go around any large town or city & look at how many Now Hiring signs there are and how many are standing on a street corner pan handling .

 

Seems as though all the graduates today look to do computer type careers or lawyers (just what we freakin need another lawyer) there are little to no young people that have access to learning a trade or willing to sweat to get there .

 

We have become a country full of entitled spoiled rotten individuals for the most part not all but most that don't want to or won't work for what they want & expect it should be given to them !

 

Use to be health care was a perk something given to those by the company to those that were exemplary employees now weather you work or your entire life goal is to fleece the system every one is expected to get all the entitlements . Use to be social security was something you could put money into as a retirement fund but now ALL weather you are a citizen or not can get their hands in it once agin thank you to our lovely gov't politicians for that !!

 

Some get free rent, electricity, food stamps, water & sewer, while they drive around in their fancy cars with their cell phones which OMG every ones got to have one of those now a days & also if you don't have the internet HOLY S**T the world is gonna come to a end WTF ???

 

Then the worst thing about it is that the politicians the ones that the entitled spoiled rotten Americans elect into office continue to just give all of this and more in promising this stuff in order to be selected for some up to 50+ yrs in the gov't then we all (well some) wonder why the US is in debt one our heads & it just continues to get worse & worse .

 

But we will continue to appoint these jack asses that can't even balance their own check books & give away things like hypodermic needles welfare & other things freely that a lot of these folks don't need & with a little bit of watching these folks it could be found out who were fleecing the system & who actually needs it .

 

Oh (and this one will piss off some people i'm sure) there are those today that feel that they are due reparations because of a ancestor that they never knew or cared about until they heard the word "Reparation"  that was a slave & actually knew what real racism was not the watered down or exaggerated  version of what it is today in some cases .

 

I am in no way saying for those of you that will misconstrue that last statement that racism doesn't exist today because it does but i am saying that in a lot of cases it is & can & will be blown out of proportion to make others feel it is more than it is in some instances .

 

I say that because i've been told this by  people that i consider friends that grew up around the time i did that have told me that these younger folks today feel they are discriminated against & scream racism but have it so so easy in comparison to what those of a different era did those that actually paid the price for those today to have it as easy as they do yet they still cry & whine instead of as it has been said go out & JUST DO IT !!

 

I feel that we have seen civil war as recent as a couple years back when the so called "Peaceful Protest" were going on & those wing nuts stormed the capital & i feel that given the way our gov't wants to keep us divided  we can't see as a people that we would be better off United that it will get worse before i t gets better .

 

There are so many people that we could look to that we could draw inspiration from yet we tend to look at those that just want to stir the pot & cause divisions i won't mention any names but i'm sure we all have our own thoughts on that but the US as a hole is still the greatest country on the planet but dammit there is there a ton of bad that has come from that entitlement attitude we have adopted instead of the working for it that the country use to have .

 

I pray that it will get better but i don't see it in my life time as long as the "I'm a Entitled American" mind set continues it will never get better .

 

So slay away all of you out there that disagree i'm sure there will be some hateful reply's but this is just one old guys opinion & in todays world i'm sure the woke crowd will come out in full force to cancel me if they read this & have any opposite opinions which hey have at it we are all entitled to one thing & that is our own individual opinions !!

 

Be blessed !! GO Bills !!  

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

The independents have the lowest approval rate of Biden at about 19 percent as of last week so I don't think much is changing. Those are the people who decide elections. 

I think this reflects the lack of options.  Personally, neither major party represents my views and interests to any great degree or to my satisfaction.  If I could pick and choose from a list of positions and options on various subjects and issues from both parties it might create a third party that would align with my interests.  One that I suspect would also represent the interests of independents and a large number of Democrats and Republicans that just are not on-board with the extremes of either.  

I expect some third party will emerge to represent just such a perspective.  The seeds for that to happen are sown by the current level of chaos and conflict.  And over time, as the current system of arrangements deteriorates, I think both political parties are doomed to minority status as their governance continues to become more and more ineffective and unpopular over time.  It might take a couple decades or maybe just a couple years depending on how bad things get.     

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think this reflects the lack of options.  Personally, neither major party represents my views and interests to any great degree or to my satisfaction.  If I could pick and choose from a list of positions and options on various subjects and issues from both parties it might create a third party that would align with my interests.  One that I suspect would also represent the interests of independents and a large number of Democrats and Republicans that just are not on-board with the extremes of either.  

I expect some third party will emerge to represent just such a perspective.  The seeds for that to happen are sown by the current level of chaos and conflict.  And over time, as the current system of arrangements deteriorates, I think both political parties are doomed to minority status as their governance continues to become more and more ineffective and unpopular over time.  It might take a couple decades or maybe just a couple years depending on how bad things get.     

 

I would love that. Cause that's where I lie. I have voted Democrat and I have voted Republican. 

[Tiberius]

16 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I think that is far from certain. The GOP is making gains with the Latino vote. Even a small gain greatly hurts the Dems chances given how dependent they are on that demographic in Texas.

 

The Dems have generally been taking Latino voters for granted and it's beginning to show.

Even if GOP takes a great share of Hispanic vote the numbers are exploding. Most HS graduates in Texas are Hispanic. That’s going to ripple through the years. I remember people saying Georgia would never go Dem. well...

 

Add to that these horrific gun crimes where Hispanics are the victims 

20 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

The independents have the lowest approval rate of Biden at about 19 percent as of last week so I don't think much is changing. Those are the people who decide elections. 

Biden isn’t on the ballot. 

[ChiGoose]

5 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think this reflects the lack of options.  Personally, neither major party represents my views and interests to any great degree or to my satisfaction.  If I could pick and choose from a list of positions and options on various subjects and issues from both parties it might create a third party that would align with my interests.  One that I suspect would also represent the interests of independents and a large number of Democrats and Republicans that just are not on-board with the extremes of either.  

I expect some third party will emerge to represent just such a perspective.  The seeds for that to happen are sown by the current level of chaos and conflict.  And over time, as the current system of arrangements deteriorates, I think both political parties are doomed to minority status as their governance continues to become more and more ineffective and unpopular over time.  It might take a couple decades or maybe just a couple years depending on how bad things get.     

 

I agree with a lot of this but the problem is that we have a first-past-the-post electoral system which makes third parties almost impossible. We haven't had a major party replaced in over 150 years.

 

If we really want this kind of reform, we need to enact reforms that are politically neutral but allow for the creation of third parties by eliminating the spoiler effect. A system like Ranked Choice Voting or Approval Voting would allow voters to choose their preferred candidate regardless of their party or chance of electoral success without worrying that doing so will benefit their least preferred candidate.

 

Until we do something like that, it is unlikely we will be able to break the Dem - GOP stronghold on our political process and we will continue to be sorted into two camps and incentivized to demonize the other camp.

[MPL]

What I find most disconcerting is that 100% of Americans are fully convinced that 50% of Americans are mentally disturbed.

The United States has always been a Yin and Yang kind of thing with liberalism and conservatism forming a complementary dynamic, that when in sync can produce incredible results. But the force of one always matches the other. We've gone through multiple iterations in American history where one side has seemed to capture control only to see the other side rise up to meet it and turn the tide. 

We are a little over 20 years into wide-spread internet access. I think we are starting to see the negative ramifications of it. Ramifications that no one had any way of knowing, because such rapid access to information had never been available before in history. This is both good and bad. No matter what you believe—and in America you can believe literally anything—you can find news, opinions, and stories that are perfectly tailored to fit your narrative. Don't like what Fox News has to say, you can turn on MSNBC. Don't like what MSNBC has to say? You can turn on Fox News. Don't like what corporate media has to say? You can turn on Joe Rogan. 

 

The positive is that we have freedom of choice. We have so much freedom of choice. The downside is that, generally speaking, people don't actually want freedom. We can't handle it, that's why religion had to be invented. It was inevitable. We needed rules, guidelines, and something that told us all of this time on earth meant something. 

 

A few years ago, I began seeing a lot of studies about developed nations and religion. The general finding was that as developed nations become wealthier, people become less religious. Or, as countries become less religious, they become wealthier. It's kind of a chicken or the egg argument, but there seems to be a correlation.  From my perspective, the extremely religious population (from a myriad of beliefs and denominations) has gone from being an afterthought to once again being at the center of American politics. They've risen up to meet the rise in the more atheistic liberalism that seemed to be the status quo for the past few decades. This isn't the first time that this happened either.

 

None of this should be surprising. After all, the first Europeans to land here were religious extremists that had been exiled from England because their religion was considered, well, too extreme. In America, you can start a religion almost as easily as you can start a business. There's something for nearly any belief. Don't like what one denomination teaches, join another. 

There's a trend I've seen, and it's that as Americans, we're born with a sense of privilege and a belief that we're God's greatest gift to the world. On an individual level, we're all convinced that we're right and everyone else is wrong. We tell ourselves that we're free thinkers while getting all of our information from slanted external sources. 99.9% of us are not free thinkers but 100% of us sure as hell think that we are. 

 

Are we heading towards a civil war? I think we've never stopped fighting the first one and frankly, I don't know that we're capable of not fighting it. But this new civil war is fought without uniforms and generals. It's fought with mass shootings at schools, parades, churches, grocery stores, and concerts. It's fought on Twitter and YouTube, and Fox News, and MSNBC, and CNN. It's fought on Reddit and message boards. 

 

But mostly, it's fought in our own heads and in our beliefs. 

 

Put your weapons down and be good to each other. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by MPL
typo

[aristocrat]

 

 

Here's the issue. We have to accept election results and allow the people to lead. We don't do that. 

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Oh, we will fight! You guys are just full of soft targets to eliminate with extreme prejudice. You think those motorcycle gangs are going to be able to drive around if any sort of violence begins? LOL, those are big fat soft targets. There are many other easy targets. There won;t be a civil war, but if they is don't think for a second you guys will have it easy, you won't. 

 

I don't think there are "fiscal conservatives." How many of the so-called fiscal Conservatives are not supporters of flooding the country with guns and controlling women's reproductive rights? Not many 

Calling fellow Americans soft targets....really

BTW, how many libsvsrd hunters and own guns?

 

Yes you can be fiscal conservative and not own a gun...there are a couple on this board.

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

R vs W was a weak decision according to almost every honest legal scholar, including RBG. It was not a role the SC should have taken since it found a right in the constitution that is not explicitly written, or truly even referred to directly 

True, according to role, they should not hear the case, there is no constitutional need to be involved.

It is a state issue, like the death penalty. On the other hand, guns are mentioned in the document, so that should only be a national issue, IMHO.

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Not one single women was in on writing the Constitution, so ya. Alito's arguments all sited men from the time before women had a right to participate in the government, 

What wording would be in the constitution if women were allowed to write it completely that would matter in the Roe vs Wade argument?

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

What wording would be in the constitution if women were allowed to write it completely that would matter in the Roe vs Wade argument?

 

 

1 hour ago, MPL said:

What I find most disconcerting is that 100% of Americans are fully convinced that 50% of Americans are mentally disturbed.

The United States has always been a Yin and Yang kind of thing with liberalism and conservatism forming a complementary dynamic, that when in sync can produce incredible results. But the force of one always matches the other. We've gone through multiple iterations in American history where one side has seemed to capture control only to see the other side rise up to meet it and turn the tide. 

We are a little over 20 years into wide-spread internet access. I think we are starting to see the negative ramifications of it. Ramifications that no one had any way of knowing, because such rapid access to information had never been available before in history. This is both good and bad. No matter what you believe—and in America you can believe literally anything—you can find news, opinions, and stories that are perfectly tailored to fit your narrative. Don't like what Fox News has to say, you can turn on MSNBC. Don't like what MSNBC has to say? You can turn on Fox News. Don't like what corporate media has to say? You can turn on Joe Rogan. 

 

The positive is that we have freedom of choice. We have so much freedom of choice. The downside is that, generally speaking, people don't actually want freedom. We can't handle it, that's why religion had to be invented. It was inevitable. We needed rules, guidelines, and something that told us all of this time on earth meant something. 

 

A few years ago, I began seeing a lot of studies about developed nations and religion. The general finding was that as developed nations become wealthier, people become less religious. Or, as countries become less religious, they become wealthier. It's kind of a chicken or the egg argument, but there seems to be a correlation.  From my perspective, the extremely religious population (from a myriad of beliefs and denominations) has gone from being an afterthought to once again being at the center of American politics. They've risen up to meet the rise in the more atheistic liberalism that seemed to be the status quo for the past few decades. This isn't the first time that this happened either.

 

None of this should be surprising. After all, the first Europeans to land here were religious extremists that had been exiled from England because their religion was considered, well, too extreme. In America, you can start a religion almost as easily as you can start a business. There's something for nearly any belief. Don't like what one denomination teaches, join another. 

There's a trend I've seen, and it's that as Americans, we're born with a sense of privilege and a belief that we're God's greatest gift to the world. On an individual level, we're all convinced that we're right and everyone else is wrong. We tell ourselves that we're free thinkers while getting all of our information from slanted external sources. 99.9% of us are not free thinkers but 100% of us sure as hell think that we are. 

 

Are we heading towards a civil war? I think we've never stopped fighting the first one and frankly, I don't know that we're capable of not fighting it. But this new civil war is fought without uniforms and generals. It's fought with mass shootings at schools, parades, churches, grocery stores, and concerts. It's fought on Twitter and YouTube, and Fox News, and MSNBC, and CNN. It's fought on Reddit and message boards. 

 

But mostly, it's fought in our own heads and in our beliefs. 

 

Put your weapons down and be good to each other. 

I believe the core of the problem is a concentration of power.  Big government.  The government is too powerful.  At the Federal, State, and in some situations such as large urban centers.  And when one side or the other gains control of this power they attempt to use it to push around people that have different views and opinions.  

Take away governments funding and they have no money or ability to push around American citizens regardless of their views.  Everybody minds their business and quarrels are private matters to be settled outside of the political arena.   

 

[SoCal Deek]

I take the time to write out how this is all supposed to work, and within minutes, the Board blows up with the usual cast of characters screaming at each other.  People need to take (or retake) a basic Government Class.  It would cure most of this.

[Irv]

It would be helpful if we had more Independents.  At the national level - how many are there?  Two?  Two out of Five Hundred Thirty-Five. (.0004) Nearly 40% of Americans consider themselves Independents.   But Independents never get elected. 

 

Nobody with half a brain always agrees with the party line.  But that's how the Legislative Branch is run.  If you disagree, ask Liz Cheney.  

 

What a mess.  

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Irv