Big Turk Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) Looks like they also greatly eased the rules so that up to 6 players can be made up of any type of players without any restrictions (see vested vets stashed cheaply on the PS). Agreement between NFL and NFLPA for remainder of the CBA. https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1529602332295671813 Edited May 26, 2022 by Big Turk 7 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Round Bust Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 wonder if they would consider an exclusion for rookies (first year) after the initial cuts in Aug and the big one now in early Sept where IF you reclaim your recent draft picks, they would be protected/exempt for the first season, protects the draft investment made in them...i 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 Awesome. Now increase the active game day roster size to 53 4 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 6 minutes ago, NewEra said: Awesome. Now increase the active game day roster size to 53 If the NFL is about safety, this is one of the next logical steps and long overdue. The NFLPA, for a long time, was against expanded rosters for fear of it reducing the pot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjnick Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 IMO, This is all in response to the USFL and XFL. Weakening their products even more by stashing more able bodies away from them. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 1 hour ago, hjnick said: IMO, This is all in response to the USFL and XFL. Weakening their products even more by stashing more able bodies away from them. How does this accomplish that? The USFL/XFL could care less about NFL rules. Both leagues offer more for their starters than a PS "salary." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, aceman_16 said: How does this accomplish that? The USFL/XFL could care less about NFL rules. Both leagues offer more for their starters than a PS "salary." Not sure that is correct. USFL salary: Each player makes $600 per week for training camp and $4,500 for being on the active roster during each game, according to USFL News. Practice squad players make $1,500 per game. While the regular-season “salary” for a player is less than $50,000, there are a few opportunities for bonuses.Apr 22, 2022 Plus the players have to pay for housing - including an option to share a hotel room. XFL Salary: It was about 1/2 the USFL salary standard, but with bonuses - we will see the final numbers needed to attract players in 2023. The XFL covered hotel rooms for the players - therefore the overall take home was about the same as the USFL. Practice Squad: How much does the average practice squad player make? Players with tenure earn $14,000 per week, or $252,000 per season, a nice spike from the $8,400 practice squad players used to make. And players with two or fewer accrued NFL seasons make $9,200.Sep 23, 2021 The standard player with no experience will make nearly 2x the money per week on the NFL practice squad - plus with the longer season you get that weekly salary over 17 games - nearly double the number of games that either other league has - so nearly 4x the overall salary on the PS. The NFL also has built in contract escalators year over year to increase the salary and the ability to get a full NFL game check if called up that would be more than the entire yearly salary in the USFL or XFL. In addition the viewership of the USFL has been terrible - with 4 games including prime football times Sat and Sun on NBC and Fox - major over the air networks - the average viewers was under 800,000. Unless that trend changes - it is going to be hard to envision how both the USFL and the XFL can play at the same time and survive. Edited May 26, 2022 by Rochesterfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 9 hours ago, First Round Bust said: wonder if they would consider an exclusion for rookies (first year) after the initial cuts in Aug and the big one now in early Sept where IF you reclaim your recent draft picks, they would be protected/exempt for the first season, protects the draft investment made in them...i This is a pretty interesting idea... Continue to expose them to waivers when they come off the 90-man roster, but if they clear waivers and are sent to the practice squad, you retain their rights on your practice squad (or you can decide to outright release). Similar to MLB rules with taking a guy off the 40-man roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushypeaches Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 I'm a big fan of this in terms of being able to retain and develop players who need more time in your system or just reps with the coaching staff in order to be "game ready". This especially helps teams like the Bills who have much more of an established 53-man roster and risk losing talent to other teams without having a viable alternative in the Practice Squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 11 hours ago, First Round Bust said: wonder if they would consider an exclusion for rookies (first year) after the initial cuts in Aug and the big one now in early Sept where IF you reclaim your recent draft picks, they would be protected/exempt for the first season, protects the draft investment made in them...i I think thats an interesting idea...I assume it would have to guarantee them rookie minimum, more than the usual PS $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: In addition the viewership of the USFL has been terrible - with 4 games including prime football times Sat and Sun on NBC and Fox - major over the air networks - the average viewers was under 800,000. Unless that trend changes - it is going to be hard to envision how both the USFL and the XFL can play at the same time and survive. You fail to compare how the USFL does in its time slot against the competition. This past Saturday night Michigan-Birmingham game did 1.2M viewers, 300K fewer than NHL hockey but way more than NASCAR and Boxing. The evening was led by NBA playoffs and the Preakness. Look for yourself: https://showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-5-16-5-22-2022.html The USFL is doing just fine. Right about where Fox and NBC expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 I'd like more gameday callups also. Not sure why either the NFL or NFLPA would oppose this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 14 hours ago, hjnick said: IMO, This is all in response to the USFL and XFL. Weakening their products even more by stashing more able bodies away from them. Doesn't the practice squad only exist during the season when those leagues don't play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 54 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Doesn't the practice squad only exist during the season when those leagues don't play? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: You fail to compare how the USFL does in its time slot against the competition. This past Saturday night Michigan-Birmingham game did 1.2M viewers, 300K fewer than NHL hockey but way more than NASCAR and Boxing. The evening was led by NBA playoffs and the Preakness. Look for yourself: https://showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-5-16-5-22-2022.html The USFL is doing just fine. Right about where Fox and NBC expected. I did not fail anything - the viewership has dropped off to below the levels that caused other leagues to fold. I think they are running about 1/2 of what they expected and they have been dropping. Yes football still outdraws most other sports, but the costs associated with football are astronomical compared to the other sports. Even in stadium in Alabama has decreased for the home team. They are not on a sustainable path right now because the hope was that the viewership would allow them to move to home stadiums next year, but they are already struggling and added travel and home costs would put them out of business. We will see, but once again unless they get some star power - they are going to struggle and this is a failing business. Fox EVP for USFL set the success at needing about 1.5 million viewers weekly - about 500,000 less than the XFL was seeing before Covid shut them down. They are currently topping out at 1.2 million and the 2 main games on broadcast TV - Sat at 1pm and Sunday at 4 pm both were under 800,000. The FS1 broadcast at 12 on Sunday - prime football time - was under 300,000. They are pushing below acceptable and are well below what the XFL was doing before Covid. The idea of a hub model was to build viewership, but as viewership has fallen off below expectations- it sounds like moving out of the hub model may not be an option next year. 57 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Doesn't the practice squad only exist during the season when those leagues don't play? 2 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Yes Yes, but many get a futures contract after the season and that futures contract blocks them from going to the alternate leagues. Having a larger PS means more players will get these future contracts and be locked into the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes, but many get a futures contract after the season and that futures contract blocks them from going to the alternate leagues. Having a larger PS means more players will get these future contracts and be locked into the NFL. But the overall roster size at that point hasn't been made bigger, those same players could be brought in any way to the offseason roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I did not fail anything - the viewership has dropped off to below the levels that caused other leagues to fold. I think they are running about 1/2 of what they expected and they have been dropping. Yes football still outdraws most other sports, but the costs associated with football are astronomical compared to the other sports. Even in stadium in Alabama has decreased for the home team. They are not on a sustainable path right now because the hope was that the viewership would allow them to move to home stadiums next year, but they are already struggling and added travel and home costs would put them out of business. We will see, but once again unless they get some star power - they are going to struggle and this is a failing business. Fox EVP for USFL set the success at needing about 1.5 million viewers weekly - about 500,000 less than the XFL was seeing before Covid shut them down. They are currently topping out at 1.2 million and the 2 main games on broadcast TV - Sat at 1pm and Sunday at 4 pm both were under 800,000. The FS1 broadcast at 12 on Sunday - prime football time - was under 300,000. They are pushing below acceptable and are well below what the XFL was doing before Covid. The idea of a hub model was to build viewership, but as viewership has fallen off below expectations- it sounds like moving out of the hub model may not be an option next year. Yes, but many get a futures contract after the season and that futures contract blocks them from going to the alternate leagues. Having a larger PS means more players will get these future contracts and be locked into the NFL. The purpose of the USFL is to provide Fox and NBC programming during the spring/summer lull. You cite that other leagues were doing better than the USFL. That is not true. After the initial curiosity viewing both the XFL and USFL settled in around the 1 million viewers per game mark. You also forgot, or do not know, that the USFL is owned by Fox and NBC. So I seriously doubt these networks went into this venture unaware of the viewership potential. You are correct that it's entirely likely that Phase 2 of the USFL, moving the teams to their home cities, may not happen. I don't think it would be worth the added expense. The single hub city concept works fine, other than the lack of fans when the home Stallions aren't playing. None of this has stopped ESPN/ABC from signing on to the XFL's return next spring. The XFL plans to begin play earlier, with teams in home cities, right after the Super Bowl. So there will be two spring leagues in 2023, though not playing head to head, as the USFL doesn't begin until April. Edited May 26, 2022 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Warcodered said: But the overall roster size at that point hasn't been made bigger, those same players could be brought in any way to the offseason roster. The players are under contract (even PS players ) until the new league starts and that is also the point the futures contract start and the rosters expand. The team and player could agree to separate and these guys could play in the USFL or XFL, but not if they are under contract and they do not get released. They are still property of the NFL team until mid-March. Most of these players will also sign the futures contract that guarantees them a shot at TC next year and off season work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: The purpose of the USFL is to provide Fox and NBC programming during the spring/summer lull. You cite that other leagues were doing better than the USFL. That is not true. After the initial curiosity viewing both the XFL and USFL settled in around the 1 million viewers per game mark. You also forgot, or do not know, that the USFL is owned by Fox and NBC. So I seriously doubt these networks went into this venture unaware of the viewership potential. You are correct that it's entirely likely that Phase 2 of the USFL, moving the teams to their home cities, may not happen. I don't think it would be worth the added expense. The single hub city concept works fine, other than the lack of fans when the home Stallions aren't playing. None of this has stopped ESPN/ABC from signing on to the XFL's return next spring. The XFL plans to begin play earlier, with teams in home cities, right after the Super Bowl. So there will be two spring leagues in 2023, though not playing head to head, as the USFL doesn't begin until April. Yes Fox went into with an understanding of what they were getting into and they may become the first spring league in a while to complete a season, but in terms of production cost and team cost - they set certain goals and their EVP said for a successful season they needed to maintain around 1.5 million. They might break even with viewership between 800,000 and 1.5 million, but much below that they were most like losing money. They were also ecstatic with the home crowd to start the season, but admit the crowd is less than expected and way below expectations for the rest of the teams at this point. Yes Fox can and will absorb some loss for this league, but how much is the question. They tried to capitalize on a nostalgic league and team names, and a hub city approach and are right now below break even in the mid point of year 1. They did everything to make it a success and it is sinking right now. With 2 leagues going on essentially simultaneously with little to no break from the Super Bowl - it seems like a good chance the numbers drop even more next year. At some point - even the deep pockets of Fox will step away - especially if the NFL decides to put added pressure on their partners. The big thing will be which league gets a psuedo-star first and can market that player into a league name. It might be a college kid - kicked out, but not eligible for the NFL yet or a vet trying to make a comeback, but they need something to make the league interesting. We are talking about trying to fix the Pro-Bowl with over 8.5 million viewers and calling the USFL with a Sunday at 4 pm game with 680,000 a success. It barely outdrew college Softball 560,000 viewers on ESPN in the same time slot. It was beaten out by many things like Indy car racing, NHL playoffs, and NASCAR open race - in the same time slot. Edited May 26, 2022 by Rochesterfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes Fox went into with an understanding of what they were getting into and they may become the first spring league in a while to complete a season, but in terms of production cost and team cost - they set certain goals and their EVP said for a successful season they needed to maintain around 1.5 million. They might break even with viewership between 800,000 and 1.5 million, but much below that they were most like losing money. They were also ecstatic with the home crowd to start the season, but admit the crowd is less than expected and way below expectations for the rest of the teams at this point. Yes Fox can and will absorb some loss for this league, but how much is the question. They tried to capitalize on a nostalgic league and team names, and a hub city approach and are right now below break even in the mid point of year 1. They did everything to make it a success and it is sinking right now. With 2 leagues going on essentially simultaneously with little to no break from the Super Bowl - it seems like a good chance the numbers drop even more next year. At some point - even the deep pockets of Fox will step away - especially if the NFL decides to put added pressure on their partners. The big thing will be which league gets a psuedo-star first and can market that player into a league name. It might be a college kid - kicked out, but not eligible for the NFL yet or a vet trying to make a comeback, but they need something to make the league interesting. We are talking about trying to fix the Pro-Bowl with over 8.5 million viewers and calling the USFL with a Sunday at 4 pm game with 680,000 a success. It barely outdrew college Softball 560,000 viewers on ESPN in the same time slot. It was beaten out by many things like Indy car racing, NHL playoffs, and NASCAR open race - in the same time slot. We'll just have to disagree. I think the USFL will endure. Will the XFL? We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 Just now, PromoTheRobot said: We'll just have to disagree. I think the USFL will endure. Will the XFL? We'll see. If the USFL is going after the XFL that might work against them if the XFL basically kills interest in spring football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 Other teams shouldn't be able to poach drafted players from a team's practice squad, only UDFA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said: Other teams shouldn't be able to poach drafted players from a team's practice squad, only UDFA's. That really doesn't make sense, they already cut those picks and signed them at a cut rate to the practice squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 29 minutes ago, without a drought said: That really doesn't make sense, they already cut those picks and signed them at a cut rate to the practice squad. I guess maybe there should be an option to put them on the practice squad without terminating their rookie contract. Sometimes you draft a player in the later rounds who need time to develop before they are ready to make the final roster. Maybe the roster size should increase from 53 to 55 to account for the season being a game longer and more opportunities for injury. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) Imo, the only way the football (XFL etc) minor leagues stay viable long term is if they become farm teams for the NFL, otherwise they will go broke and disappear like they always do. The NFL should just turn the existing teams practice squads into junior varsity development for each team with no poaching, but allowing trades between the teams practice squads at any time during the season. Edited May 26, 2022 by Don Otreply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: You fail to compare how the USFL does in its time slot against the competition. This past Saturday night Michigan-Birmingham game did 1.2M viewers, 300K fewer than NHL hockey but way more than NASCAR and Boxing. The evening was led by NBA playoffs and the Preakness. Look for yourself: https://showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekly-sports-tv-ratings-5-16-5-22-2022.html The USFL is doing just fine. Right about where Fox and NBC expected. The USFL has had 2 of their last 8 games attract over 800k viewers. This has been pointed out over and over but...here it is again: The NHL and the NBA provide lots of content, spread out over many months---not just a handful of games over 10 weeks. Steady content and ratings are what advertisers are interested in paying for. How long will Fox and NBC eat losses on a really awful product with no live audience in the stands and few people watching at home. It's regarded as a bit of a joke as it is the latest struggling "spring football" league performing as badly as all those before it. Like the XFL last year, 5 weeks in and the novelty has worn off. Although for the USFL, there will be no pandemic to put it out of its misery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 22 hours ago, NewEra said: Awesome. Now increase the active game day roster size to 53 Agreed. Theres not much point in sitting guys,although it is a short term rest for a player that is just slightly banged up and doesnt need IR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Warcodered said: If the USFL is going after the XFL that might work against them if the XFL basically kills interest in spring football. I don't agree. There might be some competition for players, but the leagues will only overlap slightly. People who want to watch football will watch whatever's on. 3 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Imo, the only way the football (XFL etc) minor leagues stay viable long term is if they become farm teams for the NFL, otherwise they will go broke and disappear like they always do. The NFL should just turn the existing teams practice squads into junior varsity development for each team with no poaching, but allowing trades between the teams practice squads at any time during the season. This can't happen because the NFL doesn't want the potential liability for CTE in these leagues. Besides they already are farm teams for the NFL. A handful of USFL players will get signed to practice squads. Maybe one or two will make an active roster. Edited May 27, 2022 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I don't agree. There might be some competition for players, but the leagues will only overlap slightly. People who want to watch football will watch whatever's on. All I'm saying is if there is initial interest by the time the USFL starts back up it may have waned some and that could cost them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 13 hours ago, Warcodered said: All I'm saying is if there is initial interest by the time the USFL starts back up it may have waned some and that could cost them. Things always sort themselves out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 On 5/25/2022 at 10:46 PM, NewEra said: Awesome. Now increase the active game day roster size to 53 The problem with this is fairness. As the season wears on, lots of teams deactivate players who aren't healthy enough to play, but not injured enough to go on IR. If you had 53-man gameday rosters, the team with 50 healthy players would almost always beat the team with 45 healthy players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 On 5/25/2022 at 11:40 PM, hjnick said: IMO, This is all in response to the USFL and XFL. Weakening their products even more by stashing more able bodies away from them. Players on the practice squad are under contract, but I don't think it prevents them from signing with whomever they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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