K-9 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: How would you propose to get rid of the millions of semi automatic pistols that are currently owned by law abiding citizens? Citizens that have never commited a crime but are instantly felons for owning a pistol. Pistols that may be worth thousands of dollars each. Where will we house all of these felons when they are arrested? Better yet, who is going to go house to house confiscating the pistols? Do you have a plan for implementing your solution? I'mguessing you do since you feel it is not complicated. Saying new gun laws will instantly make felons out of law abiding citizens is hyperbole. Perhaps we could look at a buy back program like Australia’s NFA law. Offer tax credits. There are creative solutions. Also, I doubt pistols are on anyone’s list to ban, either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: How would you propose to get rid of the millions of semi automatic pistols that are currently owned by law abiding citizens? Citizens that have never commited a crime but are instantly felons for owning a pistol. Pistols that may be worth thousands of dollars each. Where will we house all of these felons when they are arrested? Better yet, who is going to go house to house confiscating the pistols? Do you have a plan for implementing your solution? I'm guessing you do since you feel it is not complicated. Incentivized buyback program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Saying new gun laws will instantly make felons out of law abiding citizens is hyperbole. Perhaps we could look at a buy back program like Australia’s NFA law. Offer tax credits. There are creative solutions. Also, I doubt pistols are on anyone’s list to ban, either. Pistols (other than revolvers) are semi automatic firearms. The post I responded to stated that they should be banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: Pistols (other than revolvers) are semi automatic firearms. The post I responded to stated that they should be banned. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Incentivized buyback program. And when the vast majority of gun owners do not agree to turn over their guns to the government for pennies on the dollar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: And when the vast majority of gun owners do not agree to turn over their guns to the government for pennies on the dollar? I assume you missed the incentivized part of the equation. And the argument that law abiding gun owners wouldn’t obey the law is an interesting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Conversation always heads in the same predictable directions. For the “it’s a mental health issue” crowd”…first off no *****. You mean someone who would massacre elementary school children is sick? Thanks for enlightening us. Now what would you do to address the “root cause” as many like to point out? Save us from the gotcha questions on what semiauto means. How about some constructive solutions instead of digging in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 I've always wondered what happens to people who have the same name as these nutcase killers: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salvador-ramos-md-a237283a https://www.oaklandfl.gov/directory.aspx?eid=30 https://www.adventhealth.com/find-doctor/doctor/salvador-ramos-do-1740402965 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I assume you missed the incentivized part of the equation. And the argument that law abiding gun owners wouldn’t obey the law is an interesting one. The implicit assumption in this line of thinking is that the law would be just and that citizens should therefore be content to obey them. I don't think that case has been made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: I agree. Several arguments in favor of less gun control don't do it for me. If things being illegal doesn't stop people from doing them, why have laws at all? It's a ridiculous argument. The one thing I've always leaned on is there a number of legal activities in America that inevitably lead to mass death. Automobiles, sugar and fat, contact sports, etc. As a free society we accept a certain level of risk to have dangerous and deadly activities available to us. It's better than the alternative. That's why I don't support outright banning any type of gun. To some people AR-15s are a leisure activity or a collectible. Not my cup of tea but it's their right. But I do support more restrictions on obtaining them and it feels like the large majority of Americans are on board with that too. The pro-gun lobby is so just large they make it impossible to create even sensible laws. So I don't know what the solution is. Automobiles are not created with the sole purpose to destroy something....sugar and fat may be deadly to you, but you indulging in them doesn't' affect me, or anyone else. There is a big difference. Edited May 25, 2022 by Buftex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: I've always wondered what happens to people who have the same name as these nutcase killers: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salvador-ramos-md-a237283a https://www.oaklandfl.gov/directory.aspx?eid=30 https://www.adventhealth.com/find-doctor/doctor/salvador-ramos-do-1740402965 I have the same first and last name as a serial killer in Illinois, thankfully I was 6 at the start of his crimes and live in New York and nobody asks me about him. Edited May 25, 2022 by The Jokeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 28 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: Pistols (other than revolvers) are semi automatic firearms. The post I responded to stated that they should be banned. I know that. But high capacity mags for pistols should be banned, though. Besides, nothing looks more stupid than a high capacity clip hanging off a hand gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I assume you missed the incentivized part of the equation. And the argument that law abiding gun owners wouldn’t obey the law is an interesting one. Well, since 80% + crimes involving handguns (to include murders) are comitted by people who do not legally own the handgun, I am assuming you have an easy fix for that as well? I'm curious as to what that would be... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Just now, K-9 said: I know that. But high capacity mags for pistols should be banned, though. Besides, nothing looks more stupid than a high capacity clip hanging off a hand gun. I have no issue with magazine (it’s not a clip) capacity restrictions. I live in a state that already has that law. Although I doubt it has done anything to reduce gun violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: I agree. Several arguments in favor of less gun control don't do it for me. If things being illegal doesn't stop people from doing them, why have laws at all? It's a ridiculous argument. The one thing I've always leaned on is there a number of legal activities in America that inevitably lead to mass death. Automobiles, sugar and fat, contact sports, etc. As a free society we accept a certain level of risk to have dangerous and deadly activities available to us. It's better than the alternative. That's why I don't support outright banning any type of gun. To some people AR-15s are a leisure activity or a collectible. Not my cup of tea but it's their right. But I do support more restrictions on obtaining them and it feels like the large majority of Americans are on board with that too. The pro-gun lobby is so just large they make it impossible to create even sensible laws. So I don't know what the solution is. If only these mass shooters tried forcing sugar down the throats of their victims instead. They’d have stood a better chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: I've always wondered what happens to people who have the same name as these nutcase killers: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salvador-ramos-md-a237283a https://www.oaklandfl.gov/directory.aspx?eid=30 https://www.adventhealth.com/find-doctor/doctor/salvador-ramos-do-1740402965 Would ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: I have no issue with magazine (it’s not a clip) capacity restrictions. I live in a state that already has that law. Although I doubt it has done anything to reduce gun violence. Meant to say mag. Needs to be a federal statute though. And please, no more “well, it wouldn’t do anything to stop gun violence” logic. That is so defeatist and does even less than doing something small. And that’s what that banning high capacity clips would be: a small step in a series of steps required to make it MORE DIFFICULT, read: LESS CONVENIENT, for those who engage in gun violence to wreak havoc on more people at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: And the argument that law abiding gun owners wouldn’t obey the law is an interesting one. It’s not an “interesting argument”, it is a simple fact. Millions of gun owners would refuse to let the government disarm them and confiscate their legally purchased property. If you honestly think differently, I’m wasting time discussing this with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: It’s not an “interesting argument”, it is a simple fact. Millions of gun owners would refuse to let the government disarm them and confiscate their legally purchased property. If you honestly think differently, I’m wasting time discussing this with you. Then your characterization of these gun owners as law abiding is objectively wrong and yes, the discussion is pointless. 11 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Well, since 80% + crimes involving handguns (to include murders) are comitted by people who do not legally own the handgun, I am assuming you have an easy fix for that as well? I'm curious as to what that would be... If there are fewer guns, there are fewer illegal gun owners. 20 minutes ago, LeviF said: The implicit assumption in this line of thinking is that the law would be just and that citizens should therefore be content to obey them. I don't think that case has been made. What I’m proposing isn’t overreach imo, it’s merely inconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: If there are fewer guns, there are fewer illegal gun owners. Yep, a concept that worked so well with prohibition, except for the part where it didn't. It has also worked remarkably well with Heroin, Cocaine, Meth, etc... if you ignore the 90,000+ overdose deaths, thousands of drug related murders and assaults, and millions of drug addictions. But I'm sure we'll do a much better job of stopping the possession and use of illegal weapons.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Yep, a concept that worked so well with prohibition, except for the part where it didn't. It has also worked remarkably well with Heroin, Cocaine, Meth, etc... if you ignore the 90,000+ overdose deaths, thousands of drug related murders and assaults, and millions of drug addictions. But I'm sure we'll do a much better job of stopping the possession and use of illegal weapons.... Those are very separate issues. Conflating firearms and drug use is an overused and misleading rhetorical device. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 41 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Then your characterization of these gun owners as law abiding is objectively wrong and yes, the discussion is pointless. If there are fewer guns, there are fewer illegal gun owners. What I’m proposing isn’t overreach imo, it’s merely inconvenient. Do you think you can get 38 states to remove the second amendment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 56 minutes ago, Buftex said: Automobiles are not created with the sole purpose to destroy something... Also, when it comes to cars, it is illegal to drive a Formula 1 car on regular roads due to public safety.....therefore why shouldn’t assault rifles, the formula 1 car of guns, be restricted for the same reason? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Those are very separate issues. Conflating firearms and drug use is an overused and misleading rhetorical device. No, they are not. Conceptually, in the criminal world, they are exactly the same thing: a commodity for which people will pay good money. But, hey, I'm sure that cartels, who see both drug trafficking and illegal weapons trafficking in exactly that same way, wouldn't see the banning of all semi automatic handguns as an opportunity to make even more money...Nope, not at all... And if they did, I'm sure we'll do as competent of a job stopping it as we do everything else they illegally send here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Special K said: Also, when it comes to cars, it is illegal to drive a Formula 1 car on regular roads due to public safety.....therefore why shouldn’t assault rifles, the formula 1 car of guns, be restricted for the same reason? I suppose you could make an F-1 street legal. Just a matter of adding lights and turn signals. Maybe some kind if tire coverage... But there are plenty of open wheel vehicle out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Special K said: Also, when it comes to cars, it is illegal to drive a Formula 1 car on regular roads due to public safety.....therefore why shouldn’t assault rifles, the formula 1 car of guns, be restricted for the same reason? I am actually one who wouldn't oppose restricting assault rifles. However, it wouldn't even scratch the surface of a much deeper problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I am actually one who wouldn't oppose restricting assault rifles. However, it wouldn't even scratch the surface of a much deeper problem... Assault rifles are already restricted. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the terminology. 7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: No, they are not. Conceptually, in the criminal world, they are exactly the same thing: a commodity for which people will pay good money. But, hey, I'm sure that cartels, who see both drug trafficking and illegal weapons trafficking in exactly that same way, wouldn't see the banning of all semi automatic handguns as an opportunity to make even more money...Nope, not at all... And if they did, I'm sure we'll do as competent of a job stopping it as we do everything else they illegally send here. Drug abuse is a health care issue. Gun ownership is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I am actually one who wouldn't oppose restricting assault rifles. However, it wouldn't even scratch the surface of a much deeper problem... What's the deeper problem? Young males have no sense of what it is to be a man? They like war, killing people? That's always been a deep problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Assault rifles are already restricted. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the terminology. There's always going to be confusion there because many guns that people, media, politicians, etc. colloquially call "assault rifles" are not legally assault rifles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) On 5/25/2022 at 4:23 PM, GoBills808 said: Drug abuse is a health care issue. Gun ownership is not. Right. I'm guessing you missed the whole part of the drug trade where entire communities have been devastated and turned into war zones, tens of thousands of people have been murdered, and hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost in prison. Yep just a health care issue. Edited May 29, 2022 by billsfan1959 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I suppose you could make an F-1 street legal. Just a matter of adding lights and turn signals. Maybe some kind if tire coverage... But there are plenty of open wheel vehicle out there. I don’t understand what you are getting at here.....F1 cars are not street legal because they go 200mph, and would be unsafe for all the other drivers and pedestrians out there...assault rifles pose the same threat to the general public, and should be treated as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Special K said: I don’t understand what you are getting at here.....F1 cars are not street legal because they go 200mph, and would be unsafe for all the other drivers and pedestrians out there...assault rifles pose the same threat to the general public, and should be treated as such. Plenty of street legal cars go fast... Has nothing to do with how fast a car goes. It has to with stuff like lights, turn signals, mirrors, etc... The fastest street legal car went something like 270 mph... That's why we have speed limits. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: What's the deeper problem? Young males have no sense of what it is to be a man? They like war, killing people? That's always been a deep problem... I think the deeper problems are much more complex than that: The lack of ability to adequately help many of the mentally ill, instantaneous internet and social media access to anything one might need to fuel distorted perceptions and views, access to weapons, villainization and hindering of law enforcement, doing nothing to actually help socioeconomocally depressed communities, the breakdown of family units, the normalization of maladaptive behaviors... Just to name a few issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Plenty of street legal cars go fast... Has nothing to do with how fast a car goes. It has to with stuff like lights, turn signals, mirrors, etc... The fastest street legal car went something like 270 mph... Look up! I think my analogy just went over your head!🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I think the deeper problems are much more complex than that: The lack of ability to adequately help many of the mentally ill, instantaneous internet and social media access to anything one might need to fuel distorted perceptions and views, access to weapons, villainization and hindering of law enforcement, doing nothing to actually help socioeconomocally depressed communities, the breakdown of family units, the normalization of maladaptive behaviors... Just to name a few issues That's what sending young males off into the military is/was for... Edited May 25, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, LeviF said: There's always going to be confusion there because many guns that people, media, politicians, etc. colloquially call "assault rifles" are not legally assault rifles. He has some strong opinions, I just thought it might be instructive if he knew a little more about what he’s talking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Special K said: Look up! I think my analogy just went over your head!🙂 Just a bad analogy. Probably should have used a tank analogy... I mostly agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: That's what sending young males off into the military is/was for... I actually think time in the military is not a bad thing for young men. Certainly not for everyone; however, it can provide guidance and structure, and help instill/strengthen good traits. Edited May 25, 2022 by billsfan1959 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: I actually think time in the military is not a bad thing for young men. Certainly not for everyone; however, it can provide guidance and structure, and help instill/strengthen good traits. So-so. Crapshoot. They break, society will get the repair bill. Bit of an offshoot of the problems, but addresses the young male mind. https://medium.com/war-is-boring/sebastian-junger-knows-why-young-men-go-to-war-f163804cbf6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) I have no hope and zero faith that anything will get done to help solve this issue. Why would anyone think otherwise? It's not just one broken system that needs to be fixed, it's many, including the general culture in America. Things are going backwards, instead of forward, and no one seems to want to work together. Edited May 25, 2022 by Bad Things 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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