MrEpsYtown Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No, no, no, no..... if we want a pick for Cody they need to not put him on the field in pre-season. Wait for a team to have a major oline injury in camp and then give them a call and offer them Cody for a 2023 6th rounder. Agreed 100%. If you have any shot at trading him for an asset, it has to be some team that really loved him pre-draft and are willing to ignore the last 3 years of game film. Or an emergency situation like you mentioned. Showcasing Cody is like an Oxymoron. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Just now, MrEpsYtown said: Agreed 100%. If you have any shot at trading him for an asset, it has to be some team that really loved him pre-draft and are willing to ignore the last 3 years of game film. Or an emergency situation like you mentioned. Showcasing Cody is like an Oxymoron. He can scowl real nice from the sideline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: He can scowl real nice from the sideline. He definitely improves the beard game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: BTW do we have the contract breakdown for Bates yet? Spotrac still not showing anything. All we know is 4 years, $17m and $8.8m fully guaranteed over the first two years, right? Nope, still not seen. Also Taiwan Jones and Ike Boettger not shown. Bills are shown as having $3.8M cap, which I believe is "up" $1.5M from the other day. Unclear to me where that came from, Anyone? Whatever it is, that's not enough cap to register a reported $4.25M AAV contract, which I imagine to be front-loaded to make it harder to match. I think the Bills have until 4 pm today or tomorrow to register the matching contract with the NFL(5 business days from last ?Thurs?) 45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No, no, no, no..... if we want a pick for Cody they need to not put him on the field in pre-season. Wait for a team to have a major oline injury in camp and then give them a call and offer them Cody for a 2023 6th rounder. I could be wrong, but I had the impression that Ford looked OK to good when he played in pre-season. It's only when the game speed and intensity ratcheted up that he floundered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I could be wrong, but I had the impression that Ford looked OK to good when he played in pre-season. It's only when the game speed and intensity ratcheted up that he floundered. He was bad in the final pre-season game last year too. He gave up a couple of pressures, I remember it clearly because I referenced it in my good night / bad night thread. Although that was against Green Bay starters in fairness. Maybe play him with the 2nd string and hope he helps himself in the first game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He was bad in the final pre-season game last year too. He gave up a couple of pressures, I remember it clearly because I referenced it in my good night / bad night thread. Although that was against Green Bay starters in fairness. Maybe play him with the 2nd string and hope he helps himself in the first game? If there's something I question about this team, it's our ability to retain and develop OL talent - Johnson was an upgrade on Castillo, maybe Kromer will be an upgrade on Johnson there. But I don't see even the Bills keeping an OLman who hasn't "flashed" and had good games at times. Someone pointed out they thought Ford played well (or at least looked servicable) in a couple games in 2020 when he replaced Spain, before he got hurt (this was like 2 games, though, and he looked awful playing hurt against KC and Tenn). People also commented that they thought he looked good (or at least serviceable) against NO and Car at RG this past season. So I think there is probably some good film to go with the bad film on Ford, and the "rationale" until this past season has been that the bad film goes with "playing hurt". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Nope, still not seen. Also Taiwan Jones and Ike Boettger not shown. Bills are shown as having $3.8M cap, which I believe is "up" $1.5M from the other day. Unclear to me where that came from, Anyone? Whatever it is, that's not enough cap to register a reported $4.25M AAV contract, which I imagine to be front-loaded to make it harder to match. I think the Bills have until 4 pm today or tomorrow to register the matching contract with the NFL(5 business days from last ?Thurs?) I could be wrong, but I had the impression that Ford looked OK to good when he played in pre-season. It's only when the game speed and intensity ratcheted up that he floundered. 20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He was bad in the final pre-season game last year too. He gave up a couple of pressures, I remember it clearly because I referenced it in my good night / bad night thread. Although that was against Green Bay starters in fairness. Maybe play him with the 2nd string and hope he helps himself in the first game? Here is where I am at with Cody. Obviously it has not worked out well. But you if you are team who is looking to plug your line with mid round picks, you could do a lot worse than Cody. While that could be true for us, I think he actually has a chance to start somewhere else. It's a slim chance. Very slim. Like extremely slim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Nope, still not seen. Also Taiwan Jones and Ike Boettger not shown. Bills are shown as having $3.8M cap, which I believe is "up" $1.5M from the other day. Unclear to me where that came from, Anyone? Whatever it is, that's not enough cap to register a reported $4.25M AAV contract, which I imagine to be front-loaded to make it harder to match. Cmon Hap, that's really simple It comes from Bates, he was previously in the books for 2.4M and now he is not. Replace him with 0.9M guy and there you go - we have 3.8M (had 2.3M) before. I think it should be enough for Bates, even if his cap hit is 4.5M we only need 3.6M of "new" cap space. What bothers me more is Star, since they still have him at 5.2M and it doesn't makes sense. It is the number for post 1 June cut, but if he is designated as post 1 June cut, then he should be still in the books right now, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 He’s a solid talent and developed over time. $4.25 mil. Is not overpaying for a starting G. He’s versatile and can move to other positions. im done with Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If there's something I question about this team, it's our ability to retain and develop OL talent - Johnson was an upgrade on Castillo, maybe Kromer will be an upgrade on Johnson there. But I don't see even the Bills keeping an OLman who hasn't "flashed" and had good games at times. Someone pointed out they thought Ford played well (or at least looked servicable) in a couple games in 2020 when he replaced Spain, before he got hurt (this was like 2 games, though, and he looked awful playing hurt against KC and Tenn). People also commented that they thought he looked good (or at least serviceable) against NO and Car at RG this past season. So I think there is probably some good film to go with the bad film on Ford, and the "rationale" until this past season has been that the bad film goes with "playing hurt". I just think the Bobby Johnson hire was so incredibly bad. I liked the fit on paper, and obviously the line improved, but, and this is just me speculating, he was way too loyal to his guys in my world. The best players did not play. And that is my issue with what they have been doing here with the line. Johnson seems like a good dude to have a beer with. Kromer has always been a guy who can make chicken salad out of chicken poo. He made it work with castoffs like Kraig Urbik, resurrected Richie Incognito's career. Made a all pro out of a number of guys in New Orleans. Turned Austin Corbett into a top tier free agent. And I think most of it is that he has vast knowledge learned his stuff from Bill Callahan. Another part of it is because Kromer is a (meany...I got censored). He just coaches and wants to get the best out of the players. He's old school in that way. He's a teacher. And that's what gets you to the Super Bowl. Edited March 30, 2022 by MrEpsYtown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 11 hours ago, John from Riverside said: There are plenty of guards starting in the NFL that are not slightly above average the ***** are you talking about man Same question right back at you. By definition, there are plenty of guards below this level, so what's your point? My point is that the Bills should upgrade, line play being, you know, important. Do you want me to spell out why I think a Super Bowl team needs better than average blocking? Not sure what's getting through here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, No_Matter_What said: Cmon Hap, that's really simple It comes from Bates, he was previously in the books for 2.4M and now he is not. Replace him with 0.9M guy and there you go - we have 3.8M (had 2.3M) before. I think it should be enough for Bates, even if his cap hit is 4.5M we only need 3.6M of "new" cap space. That makes sense, Thanks. I hadn't noticed that Bates tender had come off the cap. Of course, we don't yet know how the deal we have to match is structured, so we don't know what the cap hit we need for Bates is. 1 hour ago, No_Matter_What said: What bothers me more is Star, since they still have him at 5.2M and it doesn't makes sense. It is the number for post 1 June cut, but if he is designated as post 1 June cut, then he should be still in the books right now, no? I hear you, but I haven't followed in detail what the Bills are doing internally. OverTheCap shows us as having ($49,120) cap with Star as a $7.7M dead cap hit. OTC doesn't seem to track the "small stuff" (signing bonuses for the guys who are pushed below the top 51 or small dead cap hits) as well as Spotrac, either, but that's the point, if Star is counted as a pre-June 1 hit, we don't have $3.8M free cap, we have negative cap at this point. I suspect the Bills have made 1 or more internal moves that are not reported in public yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, finn said: Same question right back at you. By definition, there are plenty of guards below this level, so what's your point? My point is that the Bills should upgrade, line play being, you know, important. Do you want me to spell out why I think a Super Bowl team needs better than average blocking? Not sure what's getting through here. There is absolutely NO reason to believe that Bates will not improve this line. This line sucked ass last year....Bates came in and the line immediately improved. Sorry if his name doesnt have that shiny new toy feeling to you but the product is much more important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: There is absolutely NO reason to believe that Bates will not improve this line. This line sucked ass last year....Bates came in and the line immediately improved. Sorry if his name doesnt have that shiny new toy feeling to you but the product is much more important Let's see, nasty tone? Check. Specious reasoning? Check. Ad hominen attack? Check. Ladies and gentleman, we have a certified Troll on our board! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, finn said: Let's see, nasty tone? Check. Specious reasoning? Check. Ad hominen attack? Check. Ladies and gentleman, we have a certified Troll on our board! LMAO Trolls dont have 30K posts However Idiots with less then 1K.....yeah good chance your not being genuine Try harder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I could be wrong, but I had the impression that Ford looked OK to good when he played in pre-season. It's only when the game speed and intensity ratcheted up that he floundered. Early in the year he really struggled. Washington's DL made him look completely amateur and it wasn't long after that he lost the starting job. However, later in the season, like weeks 14 or 15 he had to step in and play and I recall seeing him play a lot better and he was ranked as one of the best performing OL for those couple games he played. I'm sure they'll give him another crack at winning a starting gig. But I'm also assuming they'll probably keep him on a pretty short leash. Maybe Kromer and the different schemes he uses will be a better fit for Ford. They can't all be winners. OL are getting more and more difficult to scout and draft at the appropriate slot. So many college teams run the spread and throw it 50 times a game, Beane said it himself, you never see these guys with their hand in the dirt because they're always in pass pro. I'm probably way off but I can't recall too many stud OL from Ford's draft class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) Just to comment on Ford. Yes OL coaches and blocking schemes can make a huge difference for offensive lineman. Eric Wood went from extremely average or worse to an all pro calibers center. John Miller, remember him? Miller was seen as a future stud OG but fell apart without Kromer. Edited March 30, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I feel like long ago somewhere in this thread should have been said: Bears. Bates. Battlestar Galactica. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 36 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: LMAO Trolls dont have 30K posts However Idiots with less then 1K.....yeah good chance your not being genuine Try harder Multiple spelling and punctuation errors? Check. "Mine is bigger than yours" boast? check. Impressive! Just missing the mouth breathing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 35 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: I feel like long ago somewhere in this thread should have been said: Bears. Bates. Battlestar Galactica. What the Frak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: No, no, no, no..... if we want a pick for Cody they need to not put him on the field in pre-season. Wait for a team to have a major oline injury in camp and then give them a call and offer them Cody for a 2023 6th rounder. I am holding out hope that a new offensive coaching staff can help unlock the potential Ford flashed his rookie year at times. I know the flash were brief, but many of us felt a transition to guard would benefit Cody and the team. If he is healthy and has embraced the role, we could see that he can be an adequate guard in the league. Let’s give Kromer a chance, if he can’t maximize Ford than I guess Cody’s only shot is a change of scenery for any chance in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 55 minutes ago, finn said: Multiple spelling and punctuation errors? Check. "Mine is bigger than yours" boast? check. Impressive! Just missing the mouth breathing. Mine is def bigger then yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Aaand we have the contract details finally! https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/ryan-bates-29527/ Cap hit this year: $3.5M (less than the $3.98M 2nd round tender) Cap hit next year: $4.5M Guarantees: $2M signing & roster bonus, this year's salary, next year's salary Per Spotrac, Bills cap space remaining after signing Bates $1.09M Unsigned player: Taiwan Jones (will probably not lower free cap too much, since he will displace a player who currently counts against the cap 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Aaand we have the contract details finally! https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/ryan-bates-29527/ Cap hit this year: $3.5M (less than the $3.98M 2nd round tender) Cap hit next year: $4.5M Guarantees: $2M signing & roster bonus, this year's salary, next year's salary Per Spotrac, Bills cap space remaining after signing Bates $1.09M Unsigned player: Taiwan Jones (will probably not lower free cap too much, since he will displace a player who currently counts against the cap Interesting. So at the end of the day, it is not a frontloaded deal at all. If Beane and co think that he is at least average starterthis was a no brainer. It is essentially 9/2 deal. Now we need him to be at least slightly above average starter for 2 years. If he is better and stays longer then this was a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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