Walter Football Mock with the Hot Take on our MLB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I agree with most of this.  My only note would be that I suspect Beane and McD might feel a little better about Edmunds play than a lot of the fan base does.  I don't know if they like him enough to do what it takes to keep him or not, but Edmunds is better at his job than he gets credit for around here.  A lot of what people don't like about Edmunds play is in how he is used a lot in our defense.  Its one of the reasons I was hoping Frazier would get a HC job so we can see how another DC might be able to get our of Edmunds this next season.  

I would put it they feel a lot better about Edmunds play, or they wouldn’t have picked up his fully guaranteed $12m option

[RyanC883]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I know nothing about Nakobe Dean

 

"Walter Football" has historically been the creation of a high school (then college) dude named Walter Cherepinsky who likes football and has managed to turn it into a living.  Good for him, but think Cover1 (or some of the guys here) without the actual football knowledge.

 

And sheesh!  For a website someone is trying to make a living from, the formatting is abhominable.

 

I'd be surprised if

1) McDermott and Beane are happy with where Edmunds is as their MLB

2) McDermott and Beane regard him as a "huge bust"

 

Huge bust, to me, is when you get a guy who just can't play.  Aaron Maybin was a huge bust.  John McCargo was a huge bust.  Darron Lee is a huge bust.

 

Edmunds can play football, they were just hoping for Luke Kuechly  - a star - or maybe Lavonte David.  And that's not seeming likely.

 

and we traded up for Edmunds.  A bust given what we invested.  Not a bust player (an average type guy), but a FO bust.  

 

that said, if a true difference maker is available I’d draft him.  BPA all day anywhere but QB

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's a great comparison actually.

 

What you are dazed and confused about is thinking that the positions are of equal importance/impact on the success of their respective units.

 

They are not............you aren't going to have a multi-year top 1-2 ranked offensive yardage unit without a dynamic, superstar QB.

 

You don't need a star MLB to field a top ranked yardage defense.

That's why the comparison makes no sense, they're aren't equally important positions. 

 

Also I'm not suggesting Edmunds is the reason for a top ranked defense. I'm saying I highly doubt we have had a top 3 defense in 3 of Edmunds' 4 years with Edmunds playing bad football. It's highly unlikely. 

 

 

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

So basically he’s Kelvin Sheppard, but with better hair...😉

Sheppard would fall on his face.

 

 

15 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

and we traded up for Edmunds.  A bust given what we invested.  Not a bust player (an average type guy), but a FO bust.  

 

that said, if a true difference maker is available I’d draft him.  BPA all day anywhere but QB

Is Oliver a true difference maker? 

[Alphadawg7]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I would put it they feel a lot better about Edmunds play, or they wouldn’t have picked up his fully guaranteed $12m option

 

Also a good way to put it too

[RyanC883]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That's why the comparison makes no sense, they're aren't equally important positions. 

 

Also I'm not suggesting Edmunds is the reason for a top ranked defense. I'm saying I highly doubt we have had a top 3 defense in 3 of Edmunds' 4 years with Edmunds playing bad football. It's highly unlikely. 

 

 

Sheppard would fall on his face.

 

 

Is Oliver a true difference maker? 

 

nope, Oliver is more of an occasional difference maker who came on at the end of last year.  I’d say he is also a disappointment given where drafted for sure. 

[Turk71]

The Bills #1 defense faced the lowest qbr group of qbs since QBR was invented in 2006.

The worst group of qbs faced by any team since 2006. Factor that into the Bills defensive stats and the #1 defense is more of an illusion.

 The fact that the Bills supposedly had the best defense makes the unbelievably soft d at the end of the Chiefs game even more embarrassing and weak.

The numbers said #1 defense, my eyes told me different.

[Sierra Foothills]

Bust?

 

There's a wide variance of meaning with that word. I would call Edmunds a disappointment. That said, there will be teams willing to pay him well. I believe the Bills will let him test the market and might even draft his replacement in April.

 

As for measuring his performance, in Jay Skurski's BN piece on Edmunds yesterday he wrote:

 

"If we define big plays as sacks, interceptions, forced fumbles or recoveries, passes defensed and tackles for loss, Edmunds combined to make just 12 such plays. Seven players on the defense had that many or more."

 

That's pretty damning for a guy who:

• we traded up for and drafted highly
• is considered a freak athlete
• plays a position that generally results in big plays and impressive stats

 

Look at it this way, only 3 of his defensive mates had fewer big plays in 2021.

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Sierra Foothills

[CoudyBills]

15 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

The issue is his awareness or instincts haven't gotten any better. He still is easily moved around in coverage by decent QBs. His feel for coverage has gotten worse. He's been in the league for what, 4 seasons? He's a vested veteran. He should be showing some improvement by now. He's not. 

100% agree, I was being sarcastic.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

30 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

The Bills #1 defense faced the lowest qbr group of qbs since QBR was invented in 2006.

The worst group of qbs faced by any team since 2006. Factor that into the Bills defensive stats and the #1 defense is more of an illusion.

 The fact that the Bills supposedly had the best defense makes the unbelievably soft d at the end of the Chiefs game even more embarrassing and weak.

The numbers said #1 defense, my eyes told me different.

They definitely aren't a dominant defense, but they are a defense that knows their responsibilities very well.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That's why the comparison makes no sense, they're aren't equally important positions. 

 

Also I'm not suggesting Edmunds is the reason for a top ranked defense. I'm saying I highly doubt we have had a top 3 defense in 3 of Edmunds' 4 years with Edmunds playing bad football. It's highly unlikely. 

 

 

Sheppard would fall on his face.

 

 

Is Oliver a true difference maker? 

 

 

Edmunds has had some bad games.......but he certainly hasn't been a bad player overall in his career.........it's ignorant to suggest that he has been.

 

He has simply evolved into just maybe the 15th best individual MLB/ILB in a 32 team league.........a middle of the road starter...........which is far from expectation when you use a mid-first round pick on a de-valued, mid-pay position like MLB.

 

Anytime you have a middle of the league starter.........like Edmunds is now and Taylor was then..........you are just treading water at that position.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Edmunds has had some bad games.......but he certainly hasn't been a bad player overall in his career.........it's ignorant to suggest that he has been.

 

He has simply evolved into just maybe the 15th best individual MLB/ILB in a 32 team league.........a middle of the road starter...........which is far from expectation when you use a mid-first round pick on a de-valued, mid-pay position like MLB.

 

Anytime you have a middle of the league starter.........like Edmunds is now and Taylor was then..........you are just treading water at that position.

 

But couldn't we say the same for Oliver? Oliver I feel has shown dominant play at times, unlike Edmunds, but I feel overall he's been average as well. 

 

We need these defensive draft picks to step up and become more than average, at least one of them. There are a lot of 1st and 2nd round picks in the front 7 that haven't developed into more than average.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

How do you do the thing where you share posts? That’s what I wanted to do with that other Edmunds opinion poll.

there are numerous ways 

 

on my mobile there are 3 … 

click it then share 

CopyPaste the link 

 

or CopyPaste the thread title 

 

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

This feels like a 30 for 30, “what if I told you…?”

So here’s mine - what if I told you that according to ESPN, the Bills DL finished 6th in pass rush win rate?

 

And 1st in pressure rate per PFR.

 

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

But couldn't we say the same for Oliver? Oliver I feel has shown dominant play at times, unlike Edmunds, but I feel overall he's been average as well. 

 

This was a fair point across his first two years. A bit above average as a rookie, a bit below average year 2. Ed Oliver was excellent this past year. I think that is the difference. Edmunds best year was his sophomore year in 2019. He has been less effective in 2020 and 2021. Ed Oliver comes out of this past season definitely trending up. Now he has to back that up in 2022, sure, and if he doesn't we will be having a similar conversation about him in a year's time.

Edited February 26, 2022 by GunnerBill

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I would put it they feel a lot better about Edmunds play, or they wouldn’t have picked up his fully guaranteed $12m option

 

So while I still suspect Beane and McDermott are higher than the fan base speaking for myself personally last year I was very much in the "Edmunds will be extended camp." I am much more on the fence now and it wouldn't shock me if the ogranisation is less sold than it was a year ago as well. 

 

If I was having a bet on whether he gets extedend, I'd still say that he would, but I am less sure than I was 12 months ago and I am even more uncertain that he should be.

[TBBills]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

But couldn't we say the same for Oliver? Oliver I feel has shown dominant play at times, unlike Edmunds, but I feel overall he's been average as well. 

 

We need these defensive draft picks to step up and become more than average, at least one of them. There are a lot of 1st and 2nd round picks in the front 7 that haven't developed into more than average.

Oliver dominated this year, don't know what you are talking about.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

nope, Oliver is more of an occasional difference maker who came on at the end of last year.  I’d say he is also a disappointment given where drafted for sure. 

 

The second half of 2021 he was a regular difference maker. Through three years has he been worth the #9 pick? No. But if he can sustain the form the second half of this past year for the entire 2022 season it will be a no brainer for me. 

[Beerball]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:16 AM, JayBaller10 said:

Tremaine hasn’t been a “huge bust,” but he hasn’t been a difference maker either. 

Quoted for truth.  Someone with his size and speed should be a disruptive force.  Sit back for a moment and picture all of the times Edmunds has met a RB, head on, in the hole at or behind the LOS.

 

While I don't see every game, one comes to mind.

[Orlando Tim]

I feel like I am arguing about Josh in 2019, people who think other players don't make mistakes. Edmunds is a two time pro bowler, a captain of the number one defense in NFL and the leading tackler on said defense. He is a top 10 middle linebacker in league and someone that is vital to our defense. We run a 4-2 front because him and Milano are great at what they do.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And 1st in pressure rate per PFR.

 

 

This was a fair point across his first two years. A bit above average as a rookie, a bit below average year 2. Ed Oliver was excellent this past year. I think that is the difference. Edmunds best year was his sophomore year in 2019. He has been less effective in 2020 and 2021. Ed Oliver comes out of this past season definitely trending up. Now he has to back that up in 2022, sure, and if he doesn't we will be having a similar conversation about him in a year's time.

A difference maker? Occasionally. I definitely wouldn't call Oliver a difference maker. We've seen him do it, and yes he's trending up. 

[YoloinOhio]

I think some fans aren’t on the same page as to his role in the defense and why he is important. And that there is indeed a place between “bust” and “elite” that can contribute at a high level on a SB team. He’s not a traditional MLB and he doesn’t play the traditional MLB position in this defense. Warren calling him a “huge bust” simply shows his lack of knowledge of the player and scheme. Not every player drafted in the first round is a “bust” because they aren’t “elite” by age 23. 
 

not sure what or if they will pay Edmunds but it appears the viewpoint the team has is that he is valuable. WRT what he’s asked to do against the run and pass and communication in THIS defense, his value is very high even if *and i know this is difficult to comprehend for some * he doesn’t make (gasp) every play. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by YoloinOhio