Walter Football Mock with the Hot Take on our MLB

[BigAl2526]

Tremaine Edmunds is clearly not the complete middle linebacker the Bills were hoping for and that McDermott had at Carolina (Luke Kueckly -that's the name I always have the most difficulty trying to spell.)  The Bills have functioned well on defense in a lot of games, but there are exceptions.  In any case, There are needs I think are far more acute given Edmunds is still under his rookie deal.  In general, I think Cherpinsky is something of a hack, and I find his mock drafts are generally uninspired and fairly bad news for the Bills. 

[newcam2012]

27 minutes ago, MWK said:

How long is youth going to be an excuse? He has been below average for 4 years. Time to move on. What exactly is he good at?

Good at letting running backs block him and missing interceptions. That's a start. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

This topic has fascinated me for years.

 

Donte Whitner was nowhere near the worst player I have ever seen. Not even close, yet; he was one of the most stupid draft selections I have ever seen. He was not even close to being a #8. Safeties almost never go that early and he was even the #2 safety on the board, as well as being undersized. Other than getting lucky with Kyle Williams in round 5, the entire 2006 draft was nothing less than catastrophic for the Bills.

 

Now, would one call Donte a bust? Probably not? A bad player? No, but he was a terrible waste of a draft pick that totally set the team back for many years, considering who they passed up. The Edmunds pick didn't work out the way we wanted/expected but he was (imo) a better selection than Whitner. WAY better and they were both quite ill advised. Is Edmunds a bad player? No. Was he a bust? But again, he was a very dumb pick. Trading up for him did also  compound the stupidity of the pick. 

 

Now as far as Walter Football goes, there are probably 50, maybe even 100 or more posters on TSW that could come up with a better, more realistic mock. I have never claimed to be an "expert" on this board but I am pretty sure that I could come closer than those guys.

 

Look at their first 2 picks HBF. Thay have Jax NOT drafting a LT and Detroit drafting a WR at #2 (who probably won't be the first one taken). Really? Do you think that they  did this for click bait or do they really not know anything? 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2022.php

 

 

Can I answer "Yes"?

 

Walterfootball is the project of a high school, then PSU journalism student Walter Cherepinsky.  He's managed to monetize his site and hire employees and make a living talking football on podcasts and running a football site, so Good for Him!, Seriously!

 

But he's never played football, or coached football, or even put mental muscle into learning about the details of football.  He hasn't had time, he's too busy generating content!  His site became popular because he spent a lot of time (and I believe still spends a lot of time) on search engine optimization and learning how to generate the most clicks!  His goal is still to bring the most traffic to his site, by SEO and by putting up content that will generate more clicks.

 

So "yes", he did it for click bait AND they really do not - "know anything" might be harsh, but they don't seem to know much.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

You do know the cowboys took LVE after we took Edmunds, right?

 

I don't think he does 😁

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question: if "huge bust" or "bust" describes a player who has started consistently in an important role on a defense that's statistically good, but was drafted 16th overall and is not a star, how do you describe other players who were drafted in the 1st round and have not done as much?

 

Darron Lee

Charles Harris

etc

 

How do you describe other players who were drafted high in the first round and have started, but perhaps not been all that was hoped for contributions?

Devin Bush

Rashan Gary

 

 

So let me start by saying Tremaine Edmunds is not a bust to my mind. If you think anyone who hasn't quite lived up to their draft position is a bust then sure, he's a bust, but that would be most first rounders drafted. Personally, I don't think that is a sensible definition of "bust". Tremaine isn't a bust. He is a good football player. Has he been what we (and I honestly think if you made them take a truth potion what McDermott and Beane) hoped he might be? No. But he is a good football player, has been a good football player and I think the regime will likely retain him (though personally I am more on the fence than I was 12 months ago). 

 

Darron Lee and Charles Harris are busts. Lee took until halfway through his rookie year to win a starting job and by halfway through his 3rd year had lost it and then was traded for a 6th round pick after that season and after 5 years was out of the league (after a spell on the Bills' practice squad). Harris never won a starting job in three years in Miami then was traded for a 7th round pick. He actually just had a nice year as a starter and the sack leader for Detroit... on his third team in year 5. He might end up having a decent journeyman career, but he was a bust of a 1st round pick. 

 

Bush and Gary are slightly different. Bush had a great rookie year, tore his ACL midway through year 2 and struggled in year 3. I think he is a tough 5th year option decision. Because is you get rookie Devin Bush again you 100% pick it up. The question after the injury is whether he can still be that guy. So far I'm not sold he can. Gary just had an outstanding season. He was more a raw traits guy that it has just taken some time. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this time next year we are not talking about him being in line for a huge payday and being one of the top defensive players in football. He is more Ed Oliver than Tremaine Edmunds in terms of trajectory IMO. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Typical.  You're asked a broad question and you fixate on one small bit and throw a Drama Llama hissy fit about it.

You have, in the past, in fact criticized Harry - you've said he was a good tackler at Stanford and has not shown that ability in the Pros, he's undersized and gets injured because of it etc.  Butler too - that the Bills hoped he'd become their big 1TDT and those hopes were mistaken etc.

 

I'm not motivated to go find all that stuff, so if it helps you actually focus on the broader issue raised, I'll concede the point.  I was not talking about just last season, however.

 

Now let's reprise:

From the way you consistently criticize Lotulelei and Butler and Harry etc

 

Isn't that what YOU think - that the Bills DT are a liability, that they don't close gaps and at best, they occupy two blockers but don't move them around and make tackles?

 

And if that's correct, then wouldn't that be expected to impact LB play?

 

How do you account for Edmunds having his best statistical year in 2018 with Kyle Williams and Lotulelei ahead of him and a side order of Phillipses?

 

You gonna respond with some actual football talk or throw a hissy again?

 

Would you argue that the Bills DL in general and their DTs in particular last season "met expectations" and provided a good ROI?

 

 

 

 

You aren't motivated to find all that stuff because you want to lie to pad your flimsy argument.  

 

Which is why you are getting thoroughly disrespected by me here........which you want to call a "hissy fit".  

 

At no point EVER did I say that Harrison Phillips wasn't a good tackler in the NFL.............I've always pointed out that he at the very least has played the role of getting off blocks and making tackles........which is part of the job of being a mid-gap defender as opposed to being lined up over the nose.

 

So while he may have not always anchored as well as he did this season......... he has ALWAYS done well to get off blocks and make tackles at both the college and pro level.    I don't think I've ever seen anyone else on this board quote his tackling statistics beside me,  so you couldn't be more off with that lie.

 

And I haven't consistently criticized Butler...........I even said I understood why Beane took the chance re-working his deal last year because Butler played the DT1T role quite admirably in the last 2/3 of 2020 once he adapted to playing out of position(he's a natural 3T brought in to replace the similarly built Jordan Phillips).    Butler didn't play the role well this year but that wasn't the case in 2020.   Go back and watch games like SF and Baltimore. 

 

So two more lies from you.

 

And I have already pointed out that Oliver+Phillips > KW + Lotulelei.............so that's no excuse for Edmunds regressing as a play maker.    

 

You beg to differ apparently but just insist to the contrary without supporting points.

 

Edmunds has just not developed as a processor of the game and teams eventually began taking advantage of the robotic tendencies/responses that he has subsequently put on tape........hence his tumble to an approx 110 combined passer rating against the past two seasons.

 

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can I answer "Yes"?

 

Walterfootball is the project of a high school, then PSU journalism student Walter Cherepinsky.  He's managed to monetize his site and hire employees and make a living talking football on podcasts and running a football site, so Good for Him!, Seriously!

 

But he's never played football, or coached football, or even put mental muscle into learning about the details of football.  He hasn't had time, he's too busy generating content!  His site became popular because he spent a lot of time (and I believe still spends a lot of time) on search engine optimization and learning how to generate the most clicks!  His goal is still to bring the most traffic to his site, by SEO and by putting up content that will generate more clicks.

 

So "yes", he did it for click bait AND they really do not - "know anything" might be harsh, but they don't seem to know much.

 

 

 

 

I happen to enjoy his website. I don't always agree with his takes and opinions. Generally speaking, I find him knowledgeable and credible. I appreciate his bluntness and how he's not afraid to to take a stance. This is exactly what he did with regards to the Edmunds comment. I really don't see it as "click bait." I completely understand that others disagree with his analogy. However, it does have merit and validity. Just my two cents. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

I love new interesting topics which have never been discussed 

 

 

You clicked on it knowing what it was about the Bills MLB and didn't know it was an Edmunds thread..........smh..........even Edmunds has better instincts than you. 

[H2o]

Is Edmunds a bust? No, not even close imo. He's been solid, just not the Kuechly of this defense we were all hoping for. He still takes bad angles at times. He can still be slow to process what's taking place in front of him which causes him to miss out on making play, some of them he is actually RIGHT THERE to make and doesn't even see the play unfold. He also still has the propensity to get lost in coverage or turn his back to the QB and run towards a receiver flailing his arms in hopes of breaking up a pass. The athletic ability is there, but for whatever reason the light switch still hasn't flipped on. I know he's young, will only be 24 when the season starts, but this is his 5th year in the league already. At some point we have to realize that the game is never going to slow down for him and the "what to do" in every situation is never going to come naturally through instinct. 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So let me start by saying Tremaine Edmunds is not a bust to my mind. If you think anyone who hasn't quite lived up to their draft position is a bust then sure, he's a bust, but that would be most first rounders drafted. Personally, I don't think that is a sensible definition of "bust". Tremaine isn't a bust. He is a good football player. Has he been what we (and I honestly think if you made them take a truth potion what McDermott and Beane) hoped he might be? No. But he is a good football player, has been a good football player and I think the regime will likely retain him (though personally I am more on the fence than I was 12 months ago). 

 

Darron Lee and Charles Harris are busts. Lee took until halfway through his rookie year to win a starting job and by halfway through his 3rd year had lost it and then was traded for a 6th round pick after that season and after 5 years was out of the league (after a spell on the Bills' practice squad). Harris never won a starting job in three years in Miami then was traded for a 7th round pick. He actually just had a nice year as a starter and the sack leader for Detroit... on his third team in year 5. He might end up having a decent journeyman career, but he was a bust of a 1st round pick. 

 

Bush and Gary are slightly different. Bush had a great rookie year, tore his ACL midway through year 2 and struggled in year 3. I think he is a tough 5th year option decision. Because is you get rookie Devin Bush again you 100% pick it up. The question after the injury is whether he can still be that guy. So far I'm not sold he can. Gary just had an outstanding season. He was more a raw traits guy that it has just taken some time. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this time next year we are not talking about him being in line for a huge payday and being one of the top defensive players in football. He is more Ed Oliver than Tremaine Edmunds in terms of trajectory IMO. 

 

 

Yeah you can't be a middle of the league starter at your position and also a "bust".

 

As you implied though...........for a guy who should have been much better this season,  after an injury marred 2020...........he ceased to make discernible improvement in any area except tackling(which had simply been compromised by his bad shoulder in 2020).

 

Instead he just put another season of same-ol' on tape and better opponents were able to use that expanded knowledge of his limitations against him.

 

As I said.........my opinion is that Edmunds tumbled from a guy you could easily talk yourself into putting in the top 8 MLB/ILB in the league in 2020 to a guy who is much closer to average now.

 

And I know some of you don't think he's actually as talented as his draft position indicated.............but I see him as a Derrick Henry level athlete for his position.........while not the total all-around package........a guy like Henry was SO GOOD in some areas it made him elite.    

 

Edmunds should be an All Pro level LB at this stage the same way that Henry was after that much experience/development.   Instead he's already regressed some prior to his actual prime.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

This post is anything but "Lost." It's spot on and I agree 100%. My only concern is the Bill's do have some more pressing holes to fill. I see Edmunds as a "stop gap" LB. 

 

21 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I happen to enjoy his website. I don't always agree with his takes and opinions. Generally speaking, I find him knowledgeable and credible. I appreciate his bluntness and how he's not afraid to to take a stance. This is exactly what he did with regards to the Edmunds comment. I really don't see it as "click bait." I completely understand that others disagree with his analogy. However, it does have merit and validity. Just my two cents. 

 

So you find Walter Football to have merit and validity, and also find a post "spot on" where someone suggests "Edmunds is absolutely a bust.   He could surely be a serviceable LB somewhere in the league but that's it.   He's not worth more than $6-8 million a year with his current performance.  I'd prefer the Bills trade him for a more dominant and developed MLB instead of drafting another prospect."

 

SMDH.  Look, if Edmunds is absolutely a bust, and at best a servicable linebacker, why on earth would any other team trade him for a "more dominant and developed linebacker"?   If he's a bust, we'd be trading him for a low pick and needing to trade high value resources for a "more dominant and developed" LB.

 

Truthfully, this provides a calibration standard for your opinions (and explains why you find WF a knowledgeable, credible site.)

 

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

How do you do the thing where you share posts? That’s what I wanted to do with that other Edmunds opinion poll.

 

Click on the "posted xx time ago" text at the top l of the post.  That will generate a link you can then paste into your post.  HTH

 

[T master]

Edmunds a huge bust ???? I have felt he has had to much on his plate being the MLB to play with out having to think about all he needs to but i don't think he's a bust !

 

I feel is he was able to play the same position he played in college & leave the responsibility of remembering & calling the defensive plays he could play more with his instinct's rather than having to think so much & be a better player for it . 

 

So maybe Walter is on to something by drafting that guy & letting Edmunds play out side a bit to see if that would be a better fit .

 

But Edmunds a huge bust NAH not thinking so  !! 

Edited February 25, 2022 by T master

[Buffalo716]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I know nothing about Nakobe Dean

 

"Walter Football" has historically been the creation of a high school (then college) dude named Walter Cherepinsky who likes football and has managed to turn it into a living.  Good for him, but think Cover1 (or some of the guys here) without the actual football knowledge.

 

And sheesh!  For a website someone is trying to make a living from, the formatting is abhominable.

 

I'd be surprised if

1) McDermott and Beane are happy with where Edmunds is as their MLB

2) McDermott and Beane regard him as a "huge bust"

 

Huge bust, to me, is when you get a guy who just can't play.  Aaron Maybin was a huge bust.  John McCargo was a huge bust.  Darron Lee is a huge bust.

 

Edmunds can play football, they were just hoping for Luke Kuechly  - a star - or maybe Lavonte David.  And that's not seeming likely.

 

It sounds kind of like the whole crew at cover one

 

Football fans who turned it into a business

 

 

 

 

 

[Kellyhero68]

Should try Edmunds as more of an edge rusher than a MLB I think.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It sounds kind of like the whole crew at cover one

Football fans who turned it into a business

 

Yeah, except that agree with them or don't, the Cover1 crew do actually know something about football and their target audience is typically fans who want to know more about the X's and O's and strategy behind the game

 

I doubt Walter could explain the difference between Palms Cover 2 and Tampa 2 etc

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question: if "huge bust" or "bust" describes a player who has started consistently in an important role on a defense that's statistically good, but was drafted 16th overall and is not a star, how do you describe other players who were drafted in the 1st round and have not done as much?

 

Darron Lee

Charles Harris

etc

 

How do you describe other players who were drafted high in the first round and have started, but perhaps not been all that was hoped for contributions?

Devin Bush

Rashan Gary

etc

 

I think people get laser-focused on how our guys do or don't measure up to our expectations and lose perspective on how they compare to other players drafted in similar slots.  Not everyone who is drafted in the middle of the first round or above becomes a star.

 

I also think the term "bust" gets tossed around pretty freely to mean "any guy I wouldn't have drafted there" or "any guy who isn't producing the stats I think he should produce" vs. its original use, which was IMO to describe a guy who just couldn't play.

 

Sure, there’s a material difference there.  But a bust to me is any player who does not come close (performance-wise) to living up to his draft status.  You can split that hair a lot of different ways.  If you want to call Shaq Lawson a moderate bust and Darron Lee a major bust, then I’m fine with that.

 

Also a player’s individual performance is what matters, not the performance or success of the team or the impact of those around them.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yeah, except that agree with them or don't, the Cover1 crew do actually know something about football and their target audience is typically fans who want to know more about the X's and O's and strategy behind the game

 

I doubt Walter could explain the difference between Palms Cover 2 and Tampa 2 etc

Only thing I dislike about cover1 is they're mostly positive. I want to see more unbiased breakdowns. 

[YoloinOhio]

13 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

As others have said before, he’d probably be a better NFL player if he was just able to use his athleticism.  Perhaps an ILB or. OLB in a 3-4, or an edge rusher in a 4-3. 

I don’t think he’s an edge rusher in a 4-3. He’s better suited for that 3-4 OLB most likely. In our defense, if he’s not MLB, he would need to be Matt Milano and we want Milano to be Milano. 

28 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Only thing I dislike about cover1 is they're mostly positive. I want to see more unbiased breakdowns. 

They are pretty balanced imo. The mostly positive comes from the mostly positive play of this team. 

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t think he’s an edge rusher in a 4-3. He’s better suited for that 3-4 OLB most likely. In our defense, if he’s not MLB, he would need to be Matt Milano and we want Milano to be Milano. 

Funny you should say this because in this defense I feel like they expect Edmunds to chase down everything but don't put any space eaters in front of him and they want Edmunds to cover like Milano but he's 6'5" and 250 while Milano is 6'0" and 223.  As much as I agree that Edmunds doesn't make a ton of splash plays I feel like he has a lot on his plate.  We play such loose, deep, "safe" coverage that Edmunds is covering a lot of ground.  If coverage was even a little tighter and we had safeties that made guys hear footsteps it would help our overall defense because right now our 250lb MLB is busy chasing guys in coverage all over the middle of the field instead of running down hill and laying the wood.  I'm not saying some of it isn't because he isn't processing fast enough but certainly some of it is scheme also.

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Sure, there’s a material difference there.  But a bust to me is any player who does not come close (performance-wise) to living up to his draft status.  You can split that hair a lot of different ways.  If you want to call Shaq Lawson a moderate bust and Darron Lee a major bust, then I’m fine with that.

 

Also a player’s individual performance is what matters, not the performance or success of the team or the impact of those around them.

 

 

The problem is that it when people use hyperbole like "bust" to describe something much more nuanced it opens up the floor to the chicken heads to start clucking about how everyone hates said player.

 

Some may not forgive that player for only being an average player overall............but the legitimate criticism of Edmunds is just that.

 

He's basically at the level of scrutiny here that has generally been reserved for QB's like Tyrod Taylor and Ryan Fitzpatrick.............who were often over-defended because their apologists were worried about the alternative more than the actual belief that they were much better than their critics said they were.  

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Funny you should say this because in this defense I feel like they expect Edmunds to chase down everything but don't put any space eaters in front of him and they want Edmunds to cover like Milano but he's 6'5" and 250 while Milano is 6'0" and 223.  As much as I agree that Edmunds doesn't make a ton of splash plays I feel like he has a lot on his plate.  We play such loose, deep, "safe" coverage that Edmunds is covering a lot of ground.  If coverage was even a little tighter and we had safeties that made guys hear footsteps it would help our overall defense because right now our 250lb MLB is busy chasing guys in coverage all over the middle of the field instead of running down hill and laying the wood.  I'm not saying some of it isn't because he isn't processing fast enough but certainly some of it is scheme also.

He's mostly playing space rather than chasing guys around. 

 

I think the biggest issue I have with Edmunds is he's basically the same player he was 3 years ago. There isn't much growth, which is disappointing due to the fact he's been in the same system his whole career.

 

But again I don't see him as a liability. He's a dependable player, only missed a couple games I believe. Always on the field. In our defense having a dependable Mike is huge because we play mostly nickle.