MYTH Busted: "The Defense couldn't stop the Run"

[appoo]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

So what do we do? Roll over, throw up our hands? Why is it our team isn’t balanced enough to stop physical teams? How is it that good teams can go 16-0 , 15-1, 14-2, 13-3 , but we can’t do it? I’m so tired of our terrible talent evaluation. 

No you hold them 60 yards and 3 points and 1 long drive in the 2nd half 

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

No you hold them 60 yards and 3 points and 1 long drive in the 2nd half 

I blame our abysmal o-line as much as I do our run defense. You put Allen on a team like the Bucs or the Colts and he’s winning a super bowl easily. I blame Beane more than anyone. He needs to start drafting better linemen. 

[letsgoteam]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

A 64 yard TD run, when you know they are running is unacceptable.  Did the Bills do that?????

Well, if they know they are running then they bring everyone up, there isnt as many people at the 2nd and 3rd levels to stop it from happening. So good blocking and possibly a missed assignment/mistake, could lead to a big run.

 

I see both sides. However, I'm leaning towards the Offense not getting it done.

 

In the end, its just a frustrating loss. The Bills needed to find a way to win. The offense could have done more. Even it was running plays, they could have been a lot more creative. Jet sweeps, qb reads, toss sweeps, JA designed runs. However they did none of that. The Patriots used a 6th lineman on offense over 50% of their offensive snaps.

 

It's amazing. One team had a plan and a strategy offensively, and one team did not. 

Could anyone here actually tell what the Bills were trying to do offensively last night? 

 

Dropped passes and those stupid 1st down red zone handoffs. 

1st 10 ball at 20 3 yard gain (I dont hate this one as much, since it was at the 20, even if it had gained 0 yards)

1st & goal at the 6. Handoff, no gain

1st 10 ball at 14. 1 yd gain.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, damj said:

8 of the 14 points were a short field after a ST turnover. Otherwise, the D gave up 6 points.

 

The offense had 3 drives into the red zone in the 4th quarter and had 3 points.

 

Defense was not the problem

 

Wasn't that short of a field.  Drive after the fumble started on the NWE 31 yd line, and featured giving up a 64 yd run on 3rd and 5.

 

That's a problem.

 

The offense was more of a problem, it's true, but that doesn't mean it's not a problem to give up 222 yds

If you want for some reason to discount the 64 yd run, that's still 158 yds rushing, otherwise known as "a fine day at the Boat Races"

[Success]

PTI kept saying that the Pats IMPOSED THEIR WILL against the Bills.

 

They did - on 2 drives.  The rest of the time, the Bills D was pretty great.

 

If the Bills score from the 6 at the end, no one would have said that. It would have been "the game might be passing BB by...."

 

[Freak-O]

5 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

You just let a team beat you throwing 3 passes. If people are happy about that then…you can’t just take away the big plays. That big play probably won them the game honestly. I’m not blaming the defense. It was a disgrace all the way around. But I’m not happy about the way the game went on defense either. They ran almost the same play every down. They shouldn’t have been sustaining drives. This isn’t a college defense.

The Bills lost by four points to what is right now one of the best teams in the league in a game played in a storm which made every passing play and kick somewhat of a lottery. If that is "a discgrace all the way around", then what was the loss to the Jaguars? The end of the world? The overreactions on this forum is tiring. We'll get them next time in a few weeks.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

 

Was this a trick question?

1) don't give up a 64 yd run for a TD on 3rd and 5

2) don't give up a 9 play drive featuring runs of 10, 12, 6, and 16 yds and ending in a FG right after the Bills scored a TD to make it 8-7

3) don't give up a clock-grinding 14 play drive featuring runs of 10, 12, 6, and 16 yds and ending in a FG right after the Bills scored a FG to make it 11-10

 

The league average for rushing yards is 113 per game.  222 yds/ game is atrocious.  If you don't want to count the 64 yd run for some reason (which I don't think one should, but I'll go with it for the sake of argument) we gave up 158 yds, which is way way way worse than average for run D

 

Do I agree that a lot of the focus for the loss rightly belongs on the offense, which had 4 trips to the RZ and came away with 1 TD?  Sure.

 

But that doesn't absolve the defense.  222 rush yards is abysmal.

[muppy]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

My impression was that the Pats more or less accomplished what they wanted to do and controlled a low scoring, foul weather game.  The fact that they only bothered throwing the ball three times seems to bear that out. 

Clearly.

[Billsfan1972]

25 minutes ago, letsgoteam said:

Well, if they know they are running then they bring everyone up, there isnt as many people at the 2nd and 3rd levels to stop it from happening. So good blocking and possibly a missed assignment/mistake, could lead to a big run.

 

I see both sides. However, I'm leaning towards the Offense not getting it done.

 

In the end, its just a frustrating loss. The Bills needed to find a way to win. The offense could have done more. Even it was running plays, they could have been a lot more creative. Jet sweeps, qb reads, toss sweeps, JA designed runs. However they did none of that. The Patriots used a 6th lineman on offense over 50% of their offensive snaps.

 

It's amazing. One team had a plan and a strategy offensively, and one team did not. 

Could anyone here actually tell what the Bills were trying to do offensively last night? 

 

Dropped passes and those stupid 1st down red zone handoffs. 

1st 10 ball at 20 3 yard gain (I dont hate this one as much, since it was at the 20, even if it had gained 0 yards)

1st & goal at the 6. Handoff, no gain

1st 10 ball at 14. 1 yd gain.

 

 

 

Agree with the Bills redzone.  3rd and 5 just terrible defense when there was no threat of a pass.

[Behindenemylines]

1 hour ago, letsgoteam said:

Well, if they know they are running then they bring everyone up, there isnt as many people at the 2nd and 3rd levels to stop it from happening. So good blocking and possibly a missed assignment/mistake, could lead to a big run.

 

I see both sides. However, I'm leaning towards the Offense not getting it done.

 

In the end, its just a frustrating loss. The Bills needed to find a way to win. The offense could have done more. Even it was running plays, they could have been a lot more creative. Jet sweeps, qb reads, toss sweeps, JA designed runs. However they did none of that. The Patriots used a 6th lineman on offense over 50% of their offensive snaps.

 

It's amazing. One team had a plan and a strategy offensively, and one team did not. 

Could anyone here actually tell what the Bills were trying to do offensively last night? 

 

Dropped passes and those stupid 1st down red zone handoffs. 

1st 10 ball at 20 3 yard gain (I dont hate this one as much, since it was at the 20, even if it had gained 0 yards)

1st & goal at the 6. Handoff, no gain

1st 10 ball at 14. 1 yd gain.

 

 

 

I would’ve loved to have seen if it was just Allen throwing the ball virtually 100% of the time versus Bella cheap running virtually 100% of the time I believe we win this game!

[vincec]

The Pats averaged 4.9 ypc. The league average 4.4. That’s even though they knew they were going to run on every down and were playing run all the way. So that’s frustrating.

 

But I’m sure what really hurts is that people have been calling the Bills defense soft since the Colts game (some even since the Titans game) and we’re predicting that the Pats would run all over them. The Bills spent all week thinking “we’ll show them”, but then on game day they got steamrolled as predicted.

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

What if Josh decided to throw to an open Beasley?

Again, these are all "what-ifs".

 

Belichick did nothing special. Absolutely nothing. He played scared because he knew his QB couldn't throw in that wind. Had any of  5 different things gone different for the Bills, no-one is talking about Belichick.

 

 

 

 

He had a specific game plan (for the Bills and the weather) before kickoff and he never changed it.  And he won.  This is pretty simple.

[prissythecat]

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

 

Giving up over 200 yards on the ground, especially when you know the team is just going to keep handing it off is a disaster no matter which way you spin it.   Lipstick on a pig....     Incidentally ,  what percent of teams giving up over 200 yards on the ground win games?    I suspect its a very small percentage

 

 

 

[cgang]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Was this a trick question?

1) don't give up a 64 yd run for a TD on 3rd and 5

2) don't give up a 9 play drive featuring runs of 10, 12, 6, and 16 yds and ending in a FG right after the Bills scored a TD to make it 8-7

3) don't give up a clock-grinding 14 play drive featuring runs of 10, 12, 6, and 16 yds and ending in a FG right after the Bills scored a FG to make it 11-10

 

The league average for rushing yards is 113 per game.  222 yds/ game is atrocious.  If you don't want to count the 64 yd run for some reason (which I don't think one should, but I'll go with it for the sake of argument) we gave up 158 yds, which is way way way worse than average for run D

 

Do I agree that a lot of the focus for the loss rightly belongs on the offense, which had 4 trips to the RZ and came away with 1 TD?  Sure.

 

But that doesn't absolve the defense.  222 rush yards is abysmal.

+1.  Also I don’t think the long TD run up the gut was a fluke.   Titans did the same, both the Titans and Pats nearly broke two other long run TDs in each of their games (and the pats actually could have maybe had a third if harris didn’t hurt his hamstring- he was running one legged on that play and still eating yards).  And the Colts destroyed the Bills with the run. 
 

offense lost this game but the defense certainly contributed and hasn’t been this awesome juggernaut this season against competitive teams. Not good enough.

[97bills]

11 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Belichick is the GOAT, period. Brady was his system puppet. 

 

Kevin Durant won it all with Golden State. As fans, we know it doesn't legitimately count for him. Same for Brady last year.

This is so stupid, Brady is the best do ever do it. The biggest name in any sport period!!!!! 

[MafiaMio]

12 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

 

The super team the year prior had Gronk and Antonio Brown and Tristan Wirfs? Oh wait....they didn't!

 

Brady didn't win the Super Bowl last year with a "good" supporting cast....he won with a "historic, all-time, fool-proof Superteam" supporting cast.

 

There's "good" and then there's that. 

 

 

bull####. That super team was 7-5 at week 12 ish last year, kinda like us now. And AB and Gronk were non-factors until the actual Super Bowl. Don't tell me if we have the GOAT at qb right now we don't have a chance to turn it around and win it all? Also how's the super team going for the Rams?

[Mat68]

18 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yep. Happens all the time.

At every level of football.  Its easier to get big runs when the box is full to stop it.  One seem is all you need.  When you got secondary in off coverage and a saftey deep you have faster guys on angles.  Its sucks.  The game was a tough watch.  The defense stood up and made stops when they had to late.
 

 Was it enough to win?  Not on Monday night.  I think the question many are asking and probably the feeling of the defense themselves is it couldve been enough.  In most cases should have been enough to win.    

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, cgang said:

+1.  Also I don’t think the long TD run up the gut was a fluke.   Titans did the same, both the Titans and Pats nearly broke two other long run TDs in each of their games (and the pats actually could have maybe had a third if harris didn’t hurt his hamstring- he was running one legged on that play and still eating yards).  And the Colts destroyed the Bills with the run. 
 

offense lost this game but the defense certainly contributed and hasn’t been this awesome juggernaut this season against competitive teams. Not good enough.

 

Agreed, and I lack confidence that McDermott sees that clearly.  He seems to describe it as though it's a fluke.  There's something about McDermott's/Frazier's defense that can be "had" and is susceptible to giving up these long runs.  I don't know enough to pinpoint it, but I think it's that they ask the front 7 to be fairly aggressive, and count on the safeties to charge up and make a tackle.  Which means if the offensive line can trap or wham block, or just plain old shove a guy out of the way the way Tyrell Dodson got pwned on a few plays, it can come down to Poyer and/or Hyde taking the perfect angle to "stop the bleeding". 

 

Which usually, they do, but when that's the plan and there are 46 run plays, Dr Poyer and Mr Hyde can be 98% successful and still give up a killer run.

 

The thing is, though, our offense is supposed to be able to score more than 6 points or 10 points in game, in which case, a single long TD run shouldn't matter.

Last year, we scored TDs on 60% of our red zone trips. 

 

Our defense is designed to work with that, not 2 out of 5 or 1 out of 4.

[section122]

22 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I guess if they dont let that fluke long run happen, they hold to another FG on that drive and the game ends up 10-9 Bills. Which is a step up from losing 9-6 to the Jags.

 

But neither of those games are the Defense's fault when our O can't put up more than 10 points.

 

Heat maps is kind of an inside joke here but I have long prescribed to the theory if your defense gives up less than 17 you should win that game.  Conversely if your offense scores more than 24 you should also win that game.  17-24 points are coin flip games in my opinion.

 

Going by that logic:

 

Steelers game defense gave up 16 (ST was the td) offense scored 16.  Offense didn't do their job

Titans game defense gave up 34 offense scored 31.  Defense didn't do their job.

Jaguars game defense gave up 9 and offense scored 6.  Offense didn't do their job.

Colts game defense gave up 41 and offense scored 15.  Neither side did their job.

Patriots game defense gave up 14 and offense scored 10.  Offense didn't do their job.

 

So 4 of the 5 losses the offense didn't generate enough points.  In 2 of the 5 losses the defense didn't get enough stops.

 

To stretch it further:

In 8 games this year the offense scored more than 24. 0 games in coin flip territory.

In 8 games this year the defense gave up less than 17. 2 additional games fell in coin flip territory.

 

The defense is not the problem.  The offense is feast or famine. 3 games with 10 or less points and 7 games with 30 or more points.  This team is designed to get an early lead and force teams to be one dimensional passing wise.  When that doesn't happen you get results like Monday.  How on earth is the defense getting all the blame when they gave up 14 points?!?!  How is the offense skating scoring 10?!?! 

 

If the Bills offense ever took the lead does anyone really think it would have been 45 runs to 3 passes?  If the offense scored on those first 2 possessions where they averaged the Patriots 46 yard as starting position, does NE stick with that game plan?  It wasn't the defense failing to stop the Pats offense that led to the disparity, it was the Bills offense failing that led to the disparity.

 

Defense is taking way too much heat for this loss completely undeserved imo.

Edited December 8, 2021 by section122

[TheFunPolice]

What makes a running yard more "embarrassing" than a passing yard? 

 

NE barely cracked 230 yards of offense for the game. That's hardly anything. 

 

I would rather a team keep running, because odds are good that they won't do a whole lot.