ChiGoose Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: So the fate of the world and human civilizations is dependent on the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine? A place on Earth no American cared about until a few years ago. Thst's one possibility but I could generate lots of other potential outcomes most of which are more plausible. I recall previous experts issuing similiiar dire warnings in the Vietnam era. Not necessarily, but it's a very slippery slope to global chaos and potential war should Ukraine fall. The idea that Russia would just stop with Ukraine and other anti-Western powers would take no lesson from their success is just wish-casting and requires ignoring history and what we're currently seeing. Authoritarian powers are looking to test the commitment of the West to democracy and freedom. It's why China has been pushing the belt and road initiative, and it's why Russia has been interfering in elections in western countries. There's also a populist isolationist movement rising in America that would have us turn away from the world. ~80 years after we built a global ecosystem with us at the top, many in America would rather cede that responsibility to China or whoever else would grab it. Should we abandon Ukraine to Russia, it'll give the green light to whoever wishes to challenge us for global hegemony. Defending Ukraine requires us to risk none of our soldiers and just a fraction of our annual military budget to essentially destroy Russia's ability to make war. If we can't even rise to that, why would China think we'd intervene should it invade Taiwan? Would North Korea really believe that we would defend South Korea? Foreign adversaries are watching for weaknesses in our commitments and we seem happy to show them what they want to see. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 8 hours ago, aristocrat said: none.but that’s not what I said. You've expressed a bunch of opinions, and you agree with me on the one point i wanted to discuss. So what do you want to talk about next? Edited February 18 by Coffeesforclosers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 8 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: So the fate of the world and human civilizations is dependent on the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine? A place on Earth no American cared about until a few years ago. Thst's one possibility but I could generate lots of other potential outcomes most of which are more plausible. I recall previous experts issuing similiiar dire warnings in the Vietnam era. I am not understanding your comment Just because your Carmen US citizen didn’t know anything about Ukraine doesn’t mean the United States didn’t we have been supporting them for years against Russia It’s a focal point due to its proximity to nato borders I think Tucker Carlson is an idiot, but one thing that that interview with Putin did do was allow Putin to speak out on exactly what he felt about the countries that Ukraine borders on this will not stop with Ukraine if they win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 Great article on how Silicon Valley has turned 180 degrees away from its pacifist stance and is fully committed in human capital, finance and organization to create the tools of the trade to fight authoritarian governments. Sam Houston said before the Civil War that the northern people are not a hot tempered people, but when angered they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche. Yes https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/17/silicon-valley-military-tech-defense-contractors/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 16 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I am not understanding your comment Just because your Carmen US citizen didn’t know anything about Ukraine doesn’t mean the United States didn’t we have been supporting them for years against Russia It’s a focal point due to its proximity to nato borders I think Tucker Carlson is an idiot, but one thing that that interview with Putin did do was allow Putin to speak out on exactly what he felt about the countries that Ukraine borders on this will not stop with Ukraine if they win I'm saying the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine is not going to alter the course of world events and history. Your life, my life will not be impacted. History will see it as an insignificant regional conflict like the 100's of other regional conflicts nobody remembers 100 years from now. And as Vietnam didn't lead to the domino theory every war hawk of the era peddled as an excuse to send some 1/2 million troops and 50K+ American servicemen to their deaths this isn't going to lead to some Russian invasion of Europe. For the life of me I can't determine just exactly what anyone thinks those European countries have that Putin would want? Resources? More land? Both claims are dubious. Even in the remote event that Ukraine prevails it will be what's referred to as a "Pyrrhic Victory". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm saying the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine is not going to alter the course of world events and history. Your life, my life will not be impacted. History will see it as an insignificant regional conflict like the 100's of other regional conflicts nobody remembers 100 years from now. And as Vietnam didn't lead to the domino theory every war hawk of the era peddled as an excuse to send some 1/2 million troops and 50K+ American servicemen to their deaths this isn't going to lead to some Russian invasion of Europe. For the life of me I can't determine just exactly what anyone thinks those European countries have that Putin would want? Resources? More land? Both claims are dubious. Even in the remote event that Ukraine prevails it will be what's referred to as a "Pyrrhic Victory". Yeah but this time will be different. Once Russia conquers Ukraine, the rest of the World is next! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 14 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm saying the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine is not going to alter the course of world events and history. Your life, my life will not be impacted. History will see it as an insignificant regional conflict like the 100's of other regional conflicts nobody remembers 100 years from now. And as Vietnam didn't lead to the domino theory every war hawk of the era peddled as an excuse to send some 1/2 million troops and 50K+ American servicemen to their deaths this isn't going to lead to some Russian invasion of Europe. For the life of me I can't determine just exactly what anyone thinks those European countries have that Putin would want? Resources? More land? Both claims are dubious. Even in the remote event that Ukraine prevails it will be what's referred to as a "Pyrrhic Victory". You obviously have not been listening to Putin talk Just keep your head stuck in the sand that’s what you’re good at 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: You obviously have not been listening to Putin talk Just keep your head stuck in the sand that’s what you’re good at I'm curious how all the experts on Russia and the inner workings of Putin's mind that are suddenly appearing everywhere, that believe the get the band back together theory can explain exactly how they're going to pull off that feat? And what are they waiting for? And what do they want? Maybe its the NATO officials that need to perpetuate their reason for existing (there's only one!) and the usual suspects lathered up at any prospect of engaging any war they can find while experiencing the constant humiliating defeats at the hands of peasants and goat herders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Just now, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm curious how all the experts on Russia and the inner workings of Putin's mind that are suddenly appearing everywhere, that believe the get the band back together theory can explain exactly how they're going to pull off that feat? And what are they waiting for? And what do they want? Maybe its the NATO officials that need to perpetuate their reason for existing (there's only one!) and the usual suspects lathered up at any prospect of engaging any war they can find while experiencing the constant humiliating defeats at the hands of peasants and goat herders. Putin Loves you don’t change a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm curious how all the experts on Russia and the inner workings of Putin's mind that are suddenly appearing everywhere, that believe the get the band back together theory can explain exactly how they're going to pull off that feat? And what are they waiting for? And what do they want? Maybe its the NATO officials that need to perpetuate their reason for existing (there's only one!) and the usual suspects lathered up at any prospect of engaging any war they can find while experiencing the constant humiliating defeats at the hands of peasants and goat herders. They don't know and can't answer that. But they're sure it's going to happen. Just like Trump becoming a dictator this time around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Putin Loves you don’t change a thing How old are u? Seriously 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 24 minutes ago, BillStime said: Here's what annoys me. These guys look like able bodied young men. If they're so hot for the war why don't they get their asses to the front? I mean, the fate of the entire world hangs on the outcome of this conflict. Right? What more noble cause that this? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Here's what annoys me. These guys look like able bodied young men. If they're so hot for the war why don't they get their asses to the front? I mean, the fate of the entire world hangs on the outcome of this conflict. Right? What more noble cause that this? So, THAT's what annoys you. Not Putin invading a sovereign country. Got it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, BillStime said: So, THAT's what annoys you. Not Putin invading a sovereign country. Got it. Yah, that's what annoys me. All these candy ass sissies urging on the war that can take it into their own hands and do some of the fighting. Like these NATO guys who are saying exactly what they're expected to say. Why don't you go too? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Yah, that's what annoys me. All these candy ass sissies urging on the war that can take it into their own hands and do some of the fighting. Like these NATO guys who are saying exactly what they're expected to say. Why don't you go too? My tax dollars represent me. Why don't you consider joining Putin's army? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, Doc said: They don't know and can't answer that. But they're sure it's going to happen. Just like Trump becoming a dictator this time around. That, and start a war with…..well, Joe took care of that. Edited February 19 by US Egg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Just keep your head stuck in the sand that’s what you’re good at his head is stuck up putin's arse. He's a good little comrade. 22 hours ago, ChiGoose said: There's also a populist isolationist movement rising in America that would have us turn away from the world. ~80 years after we built a global ecosystem with us at the top, many in America would rather cede that responsibility to China or whoever else would grab it. MAGA's don't care. The system as it is now configured isn't working for them. It's all about me, myself and I to them. They don't see it getting worse for them when another country takes our place as the leading superpower. Their handlers tell them it'll be fine. And they're not smart enough to see global implications. meanwhile the MAGA's here continue to cheer for economic disaster. As if it won't hurt them more than most. the grass is always greener on the other side? "As of June 2023, the average annual salary in Russia is around 1,240,000 RUB, which is roughly USD 14,771." Edited February 19 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 8 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: his head is stuck up putin's arse. He's a good little comrade. MAGA's don't care. The system as it is now configured isn't working for them. It's all about me, myself and I to them. They don't see it getting worse for them when another country takes our place as the leading superpower. Their handlers tell them it'll be fine. And they're not smart enough to see global implications. meanwhile the MAGA's here continue to cheer for economic disaster. As if it won't hurt them more than most. You should lay off the sauce. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 23 minutes ago, BillStime said: My tax dollars represent me. Why don't you consider joining Putin's army? he has. psyops... 2 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: You should lay off the sauce. you should argue the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 53 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: he has. psyops... you should argue the points. No sense in arguing when you assume everyone that doesn't support the dem party is maga extreme or whatever bs you spout off. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) 19 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: No sense in arguing when you assume everyone that doesn't support the dem party is maga extreme or whatever bs you spout off. prove me wrong. What trump policies/stances are you against? For example, do you see the Jan 6 insurrectionists as "hostages" and heroes? Do you believe in blanket immunity for him? Do you believe our justice system is fundamentally corrupt? Do you think sexually abusing women is ok for a prez candidate? Do you believe in gold lame' sneakers? trump university? overvaluing property for loans? setting up fake electors? stealing and refusing to return classified documents? Edited February 19 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: prove me wrong. What trump policies/stances are you against? For example, do you see the Jan 6 insurrectionists as "hostages" and heroes? Do you believe in blanket immunity for him? Do you believe our justice system is fundamentally corrupt? Do you think sexually abusing women is ok for a prez candidate? Do you believe in gold lame' sneakers? trump university? overvaluing property for loans? setting up fake electors? stealing and refusing to return classified documents? We do, every time. Oh, you were talking about in your opinion? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: prove me wrong. What trump policies/stances are you against? For example, do you see the Jan 6 insurrectionists as "hostages" and heroes? Do you believe in blanket immunity for him? Do you believe our justice system is fundamentally corrupt? Do you think sexually abusing women is ok for a prez candidate? Do you believe in gold lame' sneakers? trump university? overvaluing property for loans? setting up fake electors? stealing and refusing to return classified documents? Might bite into this later, I'm at work currently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 7 hours ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said: No sense in arguing when you assume everyone that doesn't support the dem party is maga extreme or whatever bs you spout off. When someone sits there and basically tells you if ignore the world and embrace isolationism, it’s a little hard to ignore it 5 hours ago, Pokebball said: We do, every time. Oh, you were talking about in your opinion? LOL Who is we Edited February 20 by John from Riverside 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Who is we I have a mouse in my pocket 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: his head is stuck up putin's arse. He's a good little comrade. MAGA's don't care. The system as it is now configured isn't working for them. It's all about me, myself and I to them. They don't see it getting worse for them when another country takes our place as the leading superpower. Their handlers tell them it'll be fine. And they're not smart enough to see global implications. meanwhile the MAGA's here continue to cheer for economic disaster. As if it won't hurt them more than most. the grass is always greener on the other side? "As of June 2023, the average annual salary in Russia is around 1,240,000 RUB, which is roughly USD 14,771." I’m not MAGA, am doing just fine in this system and don’t want to continue funding a war that send young men into a wood chipper because some war-mongering politicians convinced gullible people like you that Putin is going to take over the world (just after he gets done with those pesky Ukrainians) 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Palestinian factions meeting in Moscow. Poor Tiberius! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: Palestinian factions meeting in Moscow. Poor Tiberius! Wont the Palestinians think of the Ukrainians 😭 The world some of these journos live in .. comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 So Russia took Avdivka. Ukraine tactically retreated. Some estimates indicate Russia may have lost 47k (this may be off but even Russian sources are saying the losses are astounding) troops since about Oct taking this small city of little strategic value. Why? PR. Putin needed a PR win. Unreal. I've seen more clips of soldiers refusing orders, they know officers care nothing for them. The injured usually are often left to die. Russia can't keep the pace forever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, SCBills said: I’m not MAGA, am doing just fine in this system and don’t want to continue funding a war that send young men into a wood chipper because some war-mongering politicians convinced gullible people like you that Putin is going to take over the world (just after he gets done with those pesky Ukrainians) Now this is a little confusing You don’t want to fund a war that sends troops to their death does this mean that you would rather just have Putin win? Or are you on some kind of impression that we’re sending troops into this because we’re not as a matter of fact, we’re doing the opposite of that no boots on the ground here from the US that will change if Putin keeps on advancing his territory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 19 hours ago, US Egg said: That, and start a war with…..well, Joe took care of that. Exactly. Who did we start a war with? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 20 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: his head is stuck up putin's arse. He's a good little comrade. MAGA's don't care. The system as it is now configured isn't working for them. It's all about me, myself and I to them. They don't see it getting worse for them when another country takes our place as the leading superpower. Their handlers tell them it'll be fine. And they're not smart enough to see global implications. meanwhile the MAGA's here continue to cheer for economic disaster. As if it won't hurt them more than most. the grass is always greener on the other side? "As of June 2023, the average annual salary in Russia is around 1,240,000 RUB, which is roughly USD 14,771." China is the biggest threat to America in every way possible but few are concerned and most are oblivious. Meanwhile, all you dummies are obsessed with Russia-phobia and focused on a battle of no major strategic significance with the Junior Varsity squad at the cost of funds and resources that will be sorely missed when the time comes to take on the CCP. A major blunder which will have severe consequences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 11 hours ago, SCBills said: I’m not MAGA, am doing just fine in this system and don’t want to continue funding a war that send young men into a wood chipper because some war-mongering politicians convinced gullible people like you that Putin is going to take over the world (just after he gets done with those pesky Ukrainians) Neville? Neville Chamberlain, is that you? 42 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: when the time comes to take on the CCP. it willl come sooner rather than later if we show weakness against Russia. Paper tigers don't persist. Edited February 20 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 12 hours ago, Pokebball said: I have a mouse in my pocket honest and forthright. like almost all maga's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 32 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Neville? Neville Chamberlain, is that you? it willl come sooner rather than later if we show weakness against Russia. Paper tigers don't persist. No. It's common sense knocking on your door. You don't fight battles you don't need to fight. But our foreign policy is defined and executed by idiots. When have any of these proxy wars or interventions worked out our way? Do you enjoy losing? Look around, we're not projecting strength, we're demonstrating incompetence and weakness with every failure. Thinking Ukraine is going to prevail here at this point in the conflict given the situation is like still expecting the Sabres to make the playoffs this season. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: honest and forthright. like almost all maga's What is maga? Some of you toss out the word a tad bit too often Edited February 20 by Pokebball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: What is maga? Some of you toss out the a tad bit too often It’s anyone who even slightly disagrees with them. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: No. It's common sense knocking on your door. You don't fight battles you don't need to fight. But our foreign policy is defined and executed by idiots. When have any of these proxy wars or interventions worked out our way? Do you enjoy losing? Look around, we're not projecting strength, we're demonstrating incompetence and weakness with every failure. Thinking Ukraine is going to prevail here at this point in the conflict given the situation is like still expecting the Sabres to make the playoffs this season. So you’ve moved on from Russian expansion into Eastern Europe. We have already weakened Russian military capabilities and decimated their soldiers. Putin cares little about human life and will sacrifice many more. All of this is on him. Not us or Ukraine. At the very least, we can stop Russia from taking more territory 12 minutes ago, Pokebball said: What is maga? Some of you toss out the word a tad bit too often Who is “we”? Likely the same answer to both questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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