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Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦


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Just now, JDHillFan said:

Wishful thinking. Trump flat out broke people. They will be “but Trump”ing for decades. 

 

It's what they've been told to think.  I've been group-texting with my colleague (Dem who claims he's now Independent) and he even said that Trump doesn't want a solution.  I asked him how many illegals came into America over his 4 years, compared to now?  No answer.

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Just now, JDHillFan said:

Wishful thinking. Trump flat out broke people. They will be “but Trump”ing for decades. 

I really don't understand. Trumps the devil, but they vote for a a turnip whose been in politics for 40 plus years and hasn't accomplished anything, plus there are multiple quotes of him saying racist stuff for a while now. But trumps the racist?

 

If you don't vote for me, u ain't black! Trump(probably)

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10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

What are you talking about? 

 

And Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump, but did under Barry and Joke.  You think that's a coincidence?  When a "Putin puppet" would have given Ukraine up without a fight?

He spilled the beans in the Bartiromo interview.  She's a staunch GQP shill, and she almost fell out of her chair in disbelief, that he was admitting it.  Answer this, do you think Putin packs his bags and goes home day 1 if Trump is elected???   Well, do you?????  LOL.  That clown has you cultists believing he has some magic wand.  His only options will be the same as Bidens.  Beg Congress for money, or watch Ukraine lose.

12 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Damn, I thought we were on to some genuine dialog. Then you veered left down the Trump rabbit hole. Maybe next time.

It's ok to agree on some things, and disagree on others.  It at least shows that a person isn't a trained monkey/cultist.  

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3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

He spilled the beans in the Bartiromo interview.  She's a staunch GQP shill, and she almost fell out of her chair in disbelief, that he was admitting it.  Answer this, do you think Putin packs his bags and goes home day 1 if Trump is elected???   Well, do you?????  LOL.  That clown has you cultists believing he has some magic wand.  His only options will be the same as Bidens.  Beg Congress for money, or watch Ukraine lose.

It's ok to agree on some things, and disagree on others.  It at least shows that a person isn't a trained monkey/cultist.  

But you are showing yourself to be one with your crazy Trump posts. It's hard to have an honest conversation with people like that, no offense.

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1 minute ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

But you are showing yourself to be one with your crazy Trump posts. It's hard to have an honest conversation with people like that, no offense.

Everything I said is true and relevant, because he claims to be the one who'd put Putin down, when he can't even scare Iran.  I'm not the crazy one, he is, and he's made one American discussing politics with another American exceedingly difficult.  I'm all about united we stand, and I don't look at the American's i disagree with as unAmerican or the enemy.  I dislike their politics, but understand most of them are darn good people.  MAGA doesn't think like that

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Just now, daz28 said:

Everything I said is true and relevant, because he claims to be the one who'd put Putin down, when he can't even scare Iran.  I'm not the crazy one, he is, and he's made one American discussing politics with another American exceedingly difficult.  I'm all about united we stand, and I don't look at the American's i disagree with as unAmerican or the enemy.  I dislike their politics, but understand most of them are darn good people.  MAGA doesn't think like that

Ehh I don't know you personally, but you seem kind of unhinged when it comes to Trump. You went on a tirade for no apparent reason.

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9 minutes ago, daz28 said:

He spilled the beans in the Bartiromo interview.  She's a staunch GQP shill, and she almost fell out of her chair in disbelief, that he was admitting it.  Answer this, do you think Putin packs his bags and goes home day 1 if Trump is elected???   Well, do you?????  LOL.  That clown has you cultists believing he has some magic wand.  His only options will be the same as Bidens.  Beg Congress for money, or watch Ukraine lose.

 

Show me this "admission." 

 

As for Putin packing his bags if Trumps wins the election, LOL!  No one ever said that.

 

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Just now, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Ehh I don't know you personally, but you seem kind of unhinged when it comes to Trump. You went on a tirade for no apparent reason.

I explained the reason.  He's lying about being able to end the war.  

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Show me this "admission." 

 

As for Putin packing his bags if Trumps wins the election, LOL!  No one ever said that.

 

It was in the last interview she did with him. It was jaw dropping to me that he brought that out in the open.  I can't find it right now.  

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2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I explained the reason.  He's lying about being able to end the war.  

Claim to believe what you will but the fact of the matter is putin didn't do ***** when Trump was president. He did take Crimea under Obama, and started a war with Ukraine under Biden, those are facts.

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4 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Claim to believe what you will but the fact of the matter is putin didn't do ***** when Trump was president. He did take Crimea under Obama, and started a war with Ukraine under Biden, those are facts.

Correlation.  The guy admitted that he had to take a strike from Iran, because he made them look bad with his strike.  Sorry, but that's as weak as weak could ever be.  Obama was pretty weak, too. Out of Obam, Biden, and Trump, Biden is actually the strongest.  As sad as that is.  I'm prob just a step below McCain and Lindsay when it comes to deterrent strength, but at least I wasn't dumb enough to believe GW.  

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Just now, daz28 said:

Correlation.  The guy admitted that he had to take a strike from Iran, because he made them look bad with his strike.  Sorry, but that's as weak as weak could ever be.

I have no idea what you're talking about. What I stated are facts, coincidence or not. Have a good night, I'm clearly not going to change your mind.

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5 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Claim to believe what you will but the fact of the matter is putin didn't do ***** when Trump was president. He did take Crimea under Obama, and started a war with Ukraine under Biden, those are facts.

 

Again you'd think the time for Putin to invade Ukraine would be when he has his "puppet" in Office who is "trying to destroy NATO."

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Just now, Doc said:

 

Again you'd think the time for Putin to invade Ukraine would be when he has his "puppet" in Office who is "trying to destroy NATO."

Trump is unpredictable.  That doesn't equate to strong, but it may make people hesitate.  It's not even debatable that he slobbers all over Putin.  Imagine Putin not attacking, because trump and him are buddies.  LOL   I mean aren't they still buddies?  Will he give it back when Trump's re-elected???  LOL  Russia is our enemy, and that's clear. 

5 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

I have no idea what you're talking about. What I stated are facts, coincidence or not. Have a good night, I'm clearly not going to change your mind.

Sorry, but I can't find the interview.  I was sober, so I know I didn't imagine it.  It was so shocking, that I almost feel like it was a dream, though.  

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Found it, but don't know how to embed it:  Google: Trump revelations from Bartiromo sit-down (wnd.com)  It's right near the beginning of the video.  Oh yeah, he throws Israel under the bus right after he admits he let them strike us, with no retaliation for it.  I think Ronny Jackson gave him too much Pervitin before the interview, or else his Covid treatment drugs kicked in.  

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26 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Again you'd think the time for Putin to invade Ukraine would be when he has his "puppet" in Office who is "trying to destroy NATO."

Logic would seem to tell you that. If Trump was putins friend, as alleged, wouldn't he have given him what he wanted with little resistance. This is the flaw in their argument.

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28 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Trump is unpredictable.  That doesn't equate to strong, but it may make people hesitate.  It's not even debatable that he slobbers all over Putin.  Imagine Putin not attacking, because trump and him are buddies.  LOL   I mean aren't they still buddies?  Will he give it back when Trump's re-elected???  LOL  Russia is our enemy, and that's clear.

 

No, we're saying that if they were "buddies," Putin would have definitely invaded Ukraine because Trump wouldn't have stopped it. 

 

22 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Found it, but don't know how to embed it:  Google: Trump revelations from Bartiromo sit-down (wnd.com)  It's right near the beginning of the video.  Oh yeah, he throws Israel under the bus right after he admits he let them strike us, with no retaliation for it.  I think Ronny Jackson gave him too much Pervitin before the interview, or else his Covid treatment drugs kicked in.  

 

Yeah that interview doesn't say anything remotely close to what you are claiming.  Because if it did...it was be all over the news.  And actually instead of throwing Israel under the bus, he took total responsibility for killing Soleimani.  Everyone (including Iran and they were pissed) thought Israel was also in on it.

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18 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Found it, but don't know how to embed it:  Google: Trump revelations from Bartiromo sit-down (wnd.com)  It's right near the beginning of the video.  Oh yeah, he throws Israel under the bus right after he admits he let them strike us, with no retaliation for it.  I think Ronny Jackson gave him too much Pervitin before the interview, or else his Covid treatment drugs kicked in.  

 To be fair, i still have no idea what you're trying to get at?What does this have to do with the fact that putin chose military aggression when Obama and Biden were in office, but not Trump? Make it make sense.

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2 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Logic would seem to tell you that. If Trump was putins friend, as alleged, wouldn't he have given him what he wanted with little resistance. This is the flaw in their argument.

 

I know.  Which is why it then inevitably changes to "well he didn't need to invade because he was doing Putin' bidding by trying to destroy NATO." :rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I know.  Which is why it then inevitably changes to "well he didn't need to invade because he was doing Putin' bidding by trying to destroy NATO." :rolleyes:

This may seem crude, but why should Americans give a flying ***** about nato? Would these countries pour in billions to us if we needed it? Russia would only be a problem if they tried to invade the us, aaannd good luck with that.

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6 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Logic would seem to tell you that. If Trump was putins friend, as alleged, wouldn't he have given him what he wanted with little resistance. This is the flaw in their argument.

I'm not the one claiming to know why Putin waited for Biden, you did.  There could be a lot of reasons.  My claim is Trump is weak, and maybe you could explain to me why Putin didn't invade then.  My point was it's a lie to think Putin feared Trump, and you're assuming that a correlation is the causation.  I mean I'm fine with your opinion, but it's certainly no fact.

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1 minute ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

This may seem crude, but why should Americans give a flying ***** about nato? Would these countries pour in billions to us if we needed it? Russia would only be a problem if they tried to invade the us, aaannd good luck with that.

 

I think NATO is a good idea.  Many locations from which to launch nukes is a pretty good deterrent.  But they do need the US more than we need them and Trump knew that and that's why he threatened to pull out if they didn't pay more, which he knew they would.

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9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No, we're saying that if they were "buddies," Putin would have definitely invaded Ukraine because Trump wouldn't have stopped it. 

 

 

Yeah that interview doesn't say anything remotely close to what you are claiming.  Because if it did...it was be all over the news.  And actually instead of throwing Israel under the bus, he took total responsibility for killing Soleimani.  Everyone (including Iran and they were pissed) thought Israel was also in on it.

What about the interview was I wrong about?  I just read an article the other day updating the condition of those soldiers that Iran was "supposed to miss".  trust me I don't understand why this isn't all over the media either.  Maybe the lefties are saving it.  He did throw Israel under the bus.  He could have just avoided answering for tactical reasons, like they usually do.  You think Israel was happy about those comments???

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I think NATO is a good idea.  Many locations from which to launch nukes is a pretty good deterrent.  But they do need the US more than we need them and Trump knew that and that's why he threatened to pull out if they didn't pay more, which he knew they would.

Absolutely.  Geopolitically NATO is VERY good for us.  One of the few things Trump was right about was that they should have to kick in more, though.  

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3 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I'm not the one claiming to know why Putin waited for Biden, you did.  There could be a lot of reasons.  My claim is Trump is weak, and maybe you could explain to me why Putin didn't invade then.  My point was it's a lie to think Putin feared Trump, and you're assuming that a correlation is the causation.  I mean I'm fine with your opinion, but it's certainly no fact.

If Trump was so weak, putin would have done whatever he wanted, end of story. Period. There would've been nothing preventing him. By your statement, Biden and Obama are weak. How long was putin eyeing Crimea and Ukraine? It was calculated.

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4 minutes ago, daz28 said:

I'm not the one claiming to know why Putin waited for Biden, you did.  There could be a lot of reasons.  My claim is Trump is weak, and maybe you could explain to me why Putin didn't invade then.  My point was it's a lie to think Putin feared Trump, and you're assuming that a correlation is the causation.  I mean I'm fine with your opinion, but it's certainly no fact.

 

We're fine with your opinion, but it's certainly no fact.  The only fact we can be sure of is Putin didn't invade under Trump, but did under his predecessor and successor.  Typically you invade when someone is weak...

 

1 minute ago, daz28 said:

What about the interview was I wrong about?  I just read an article the other day updating the condition of those soldiers that Iran was "supposed to miss".  trust me I don't understand why this isn't all over the media either.  Maybe the lefties are saving it.  He did throw Israel under the bus.  He could have just avoided answering for tactical reasons, like they usually do.  You think Israel was happy about those comments???

 

First of all, Iran retaliated for the killing of Soleimani.  Trump didn't "allow" anything.  As for the strikes killing soldiers, show us the article.  Again if it were true, it would be everywhere.

 

And why would Israel be unhappy with Trump for absolving them of blame for killing Soleimani?  And if they are, so what?  They pulled-out at the last second.

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Just now, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

If Trump was so weak, putin would have done whatever he wanted, end of story. Period. There would've been nothing preventing him. By your statement, Biden and Obama are weak. How long was putin eyeing Crimea and Ukraine? It was calculated.

Obama was weak.  Biden has Putin on the mat.  Maybe that's why the GQP is trying to Venmo Israel $20B tomorrow, but sitting on their hands over Ukraine.  These companies that make the shells won't even start to get the machines to increase production until they have signed contracts.  This is also hurting our domestic supply as well pretty badly.  Thanks GQP.  They forget that the weapons we're selling them are made by American workers working at American companies.  So while the price tag is high, a lot of that money is going back into our economy.  They just love playing politics.

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Just now, daz28 said:

Obama was weak.  Biden has Putin on the mat.  Maybe that's why the GQP is trying to Venmo Israel $20B tomorrow, but sitting on their hands over Ukraine.  These companies that make the shells won't even start to get the machines to increase production until they have signed contracts.  This is also hurting our domestic supply as well pretty badly.  Thanks GQP.  They forget that the weapons we're selling them are made by American workers working at American companies.  So while the price tag is high, a lot of that money is going back into our economy.  They just love playing politics.

Biden has putin on the mat? Everything else you said is you veering off course again.  You want to know why putin didn't do ***** while Trump was president? It's because Trump scared world leaders shitless. He didn't give a flying ***** about optics and was very unpredictable and unhinged. Do u really want to test that? Trump was on stage during a debate telling Ted Cruz he had a dog wife. Trump was a true wild card for better of worse, and I don't think you want to play a game of chicken with a leader like that.

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5 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Obama was weak.  Biden has Putin on the mat.  Maybe that's why the GQP is trying to Venmo Israel $20B tomorrow, but sitting on their hands over Ukraine.  These companies that make the shells won't even start to get the machines to increase production until they have signed contracts.  This is also hurting our domestic supply as well pretty badly.  Thanks GQP.  They forget that the weapons we're selling them are made by American workers working at American companies.  So while the price tag is high, a lot of that money is going back into our economy.  They just love playing politics.


does Biden have Putin on the mat? We thought the war was gonna be over when we took all the super yachts lol. The war is still going with no end in sight. You’d think Russia would be looking to move out if they were in fact on the mat. 

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1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

We're fine with your opinion, but it's certainly no fact.  The only fact we can be sure of is Putin didn't invade under Trump, but did under his predecessor and successor.  Typically you invade when someone is weak...

 

 

First of all, Iran retaliated for the killing of Soleimani.  Trump didn't "allow" anything.  As for the strikes killing soldiers, show us the article.  Again if it were true, it would be everywhere.

 

And why would Israel be unhappy with Trump for absolving them of blame for killing Soleimani?  And if they are, so what?  They pulled-out at the last second.

Huh, you forgot this?  Pentagon: 34 troops suffered brain injuries in Iran strike???  Trump said they called him, and told him they were going to intentionally miss, and he said, "ok I understand that".  Well, they didn't miss, and those guys aren't doing well to this day, even though Trump claimed they "had headaches".  Trump did NOTHING back.  Do you think Biden would have allowed that?  He's F'in them up AS WE SPEAK.  Also, it looks like Putin waiting for Biden isn't paying off very well.  3 years, and the only thing keeping us from winning now is the GQP.  He's prob kickin himself for not doing it sooner.  LOL

3 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Biden has putin on the mat? Everything else you said is you veering off course again.  You want to know why putin didn't do ***** while Trump was president? It's because Trump scared world leaders shitless. He didn't give a flying ***** about optics and was very unpredictable and unhinged. Do u really want to test that? Trump was on stage during a debate telling Ted Cruz he had a dog wife. Trump was a true wild card for better of worse, and I don't think you want to play a game of chicken with a leader like that.

He unpredictable.  That's about it.  The man let Iraq cause 34 casualties, and no response.  Weak.  

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2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Huh, you forgot this?  Pentagon: 34 troops suffered brain injuries in Iran strike???  Trump said they called him, and told him they were going to intentionally miss, and he said, "ok I understand that".  Well, they didn't miss, and those guys aren't doing well to this day, even though Trump claimed they "had headaches".  Trump did NOTHING back.  Do you think Biden would have allowed that?  He's F'in them up AS WE SPEAK.  Also, it looks like Putin waiting for Biden isn't paying off very well.  3 years, and the only thing keeping us from winning now is the GQP.  He's prob kickin himself for not doing it sooner.  LOL

 

So it went from 100 dead troops to 34 with brain injuries?  And they told Trump where they were going to strike and he said "OK"?

 

Again, if that were true, it would be plastered everywhere. 

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6 minutes ago, aristocrat said:


does Biden have Putin on the mat? We thought the war was gonna be over when we took all the super yachts lol. The war is still going with no end in sight. You’d think Russia would be looking to move out if they were in fact on the mat. 

Who's we?  We, the more educated, already knew Russia was not afraid of attrition.  Remember Afghanny??  Wars of attrition take time, and money to wear down the other economy.  Please tell Mike Johson.

3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

I’m sorry for quoting you twice on this but will you please tell us how this is so? 

It's attrition.  This is how it works.  From Reuters:  

Other economists say Russia is pumping the economy with one-time, unproductive investments that yield limited future benefit.

"Production in the military-industrial complex is, to put it bluntly, throwing money out of the economy," said economist Alexandra Suslina. "Conventional tanks and bombs are something that are used once and give no splashback to the economy.

"It is impossible to create a high-tech machine that could further contribute to growth from the remains of a tank."

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10 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Huh, you forgot this?  Pentagon: 34 troops suffered brain injuries in Iran strike???  Trump said they called him, and told him they were going to intentionally miss, and he said, "ok I understand that".  Well, they didn't miss, and those guys aren't doing well to this day, even though Trump claimed they "had headaches".  Trump did NOTHING back.  Do you think Biden would have allowed that?  He's F'in them up AS WE SPEAK.  Also, it looks like Putin waiting for Biden isn't paying off very well.  3 years, and the only thing keeping us from winning now is the GQP.  He's prob kickin himself for not doing it sooner.  LOL

He unpredictable.  That's about it.  The man let Iraq cause 34 casualties, and no response.  Weak.  

OK I'm going to flip it on you. Care to explain how putin invaded before and after Trump, but not during? And please stop going on about the 34 casualties, it has no relevance to this conversation.

4 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Who's we?  We, the more educated, already knew Russia was not afraid of attrition.  Remember Afghanny??  Wars of attrition take time, and money to wear down the other economy.  Please tell Mike Johson.

Psst we've already gave more to Ukraine than the total cost of Afghanistan.

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4 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Who's we?  We, the more educated, already knew Russia was not afraid of attrition.  Remember Afghanny??  Wars of attrition take time, and money to wear down the other economy.  Please tell Mike Johson.

It's attrition.  This is how it works.  From Reuters:  

Other economists say Russia is pumping the economy with one-time, unproductive investments that yield limited future benefit.

"Production in the military-industrial complex is, to put it bluntly, throwing money out of the economy," said economist Alexandra Suslina. "Conventional tanks and bombs are something that are used once and give no splashback to the economy.

"It is impossible to create a high-tech machine that could further contribute to growth from the remains of a tank."

Attrition = Biden has Putin on the mat. You either don’t really know what “on the mat” means or you got caught up in over exuberant fanboi-ing. You should consider making your points without the cheerleading or billstime “gqp” routine. Incredibly lame. 

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13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So it went from 100 dead troops to 34 with brain injuries?  And they told Trump where they were going to strike and he said "OK"?

 

Again, if that were true, it would be plastered everywhere. 

Yes, they told him where, and told Trump not to move any troops to the area where they were going to "miss".  Again, I have no idea why it's not plastered everywhere, because it should be.  I just read an article the other day, and it did say 100 were actually affected, but I can't find it.  Many still are.  I mean maybe you should listen to the interview again.  

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1 minute ago, daz28 said:

Yes, they told him where, and told Trump not to move any troops to the area where they were going to "miss".  Again, I have no idea why it's not plastered everywhere, because it should be.  I just read an article the other day, and it did say 100 were actually affected, but I can't find it.  Many still are.  I mean maybe you should listen to the interview again.  

What does this have to do with anything?????

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8 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

OK I'm going to flip it on you. Care to explain how putin invaded before and after Trump, but not during? And please stop going on about the 34 casualties, it has no relevance to this conversation.

Psst we've already gave more to Ukraine than the total cost of Afghanistan.

You're asking me to answer a question you don't know the answer to.  That's absurd.  You want me to throw around ideas or correlations, and call them facts like you're trying to do?  Maybe he was restocking after Crimea??  Those 34 casualties are proof Trump is weak AF, so it's extremely relevant to whether he is or not, which is the basis of this whole discussion, not explain why it rained Friday and Sunday, but not Saturday.

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17 minutes ago, daz28 said:

Who's we?  We, the more educated, already knew Russia was not afraid of attrition.  Remember Afghanny??  Wars of attrition take time, and money to wear down the other economy.  Please tell Mike Johson.

It's attrition.  This is how it works.  From Reuters:  

Other economists say Russia is pumping the economy with one-time, unproductive investments that yield limited future benefit.

"Production in the military-industrial complex is, to put it bluntly, throwing money out of the economy," said economist Alexandra Suslina. "Conventional tanks and bombs are something that are used once and give no splashback to the economy.

"It is impossible to create a high-tech machine that could further contribute to growth from the remains of a tank."


you just said previously that we’re pumping money into our economy by arming Ukraine so it helps us but hurts them? Which way is it? 

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5 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

What does this have to do with anything?????

That his weak ass let Iran hit us, and didn't retaliate, because they were supposed to miss.  

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2 minutes ago, daz28 said:

That his weak ass let Iran hit us, and didn't retaliate, because they were supposed to miss.  

And this has what to do with putin? Seems like u have a axe to grind with Trump, looking for justification.

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