Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Big Blitz]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Who is the Left in this example? The UN? The pentagon?  The rest of the known world outside of Russia?  

 

Olivia Dalton.  And every Psaki presser.  The Left is using this accusation (disinformation) ad nauseam since Covid and its by design.   

 

 

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

 

Do you think Lavrovs claims about US biowarfare in Ukraine are credible?

 

 

Speaking of Covid.  If I believe our government deliberately lied about Covid for 2 years (everyone but President DeSantis) then I pretty much no longer trust anything they say.  

 

In its moment when the leaders of the free world (and this includes Trump who I believe was boxed in and knew this was being used to defeat him) had their moment to actually stand up for freedom and liberty, it cowered and hid - deliberately or out of fear.  Both are disgusting.  

[716er]

33 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Olivia Dalton.  And every Psaki presser.  The Left is using this accusation (disinformation) ad nauseam since Covid and its by design.   

 

 

 

 

Speaking of Covid.  If I believe our government deliberately lied about Covid for 2 years (everyone but President DeSantis) then I pretty much no longer trust anything they say.  

 

In its moment when the leaders of the free world (and this includes Trump who I believe was boxed in and knew this was being used to defeat him) had their moment to actually stand up for freedom and liberty, it cowered and hid - deliberately or out of fear.  Both are disgusting.  

Do you think Lavrovs claims about biowarfare are credible? I think that was the question.

 

Havent seen a dodge like that since Eddie Robinson whiffed on Pennington.

[Tiberius]

14 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

I'd be very reticent to throw the "war criminal" charge out.

Pandora's box.

It will be unavoidable when he uses chemical weapons 

[sherpa]

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

It will be unavoidable when he uses chemical weapons 

 

What I am referring to is the use of conventional weapons as a war crime charge, which has been brought in this thread.

Specifically, the use of cluster bombs.

Those have a valuable effect against a number of things.

Though the mention of them as a war crime if used in populated areas, that definition is hazy, and whoever would decide what was a civilian area would be highly prejudiced.

"War crimes" seems to be the common complaint about a week into any engagement.

[Westside]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

What I am referring to is the use of conventional weapons as a war crime charge, which has been brought in this thread.

Specifically, the use of cluster bombs.

Those have a valuable effect against a number of things.

Though the mention of them as a war crime if used in populated areas, that definition is hazy, and whoever would decide what was a civilian area would be highly prejudiced.

"War crimes" seems to be the common complaint about a week into any engagement.

Yeah, but it makes them sound more “evil” when you call them that. It’s all about the feelz.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

What I am referring to is the use of conventional weapons as a war crime charge, which has been brought in this thread.

Specifically, the use of cluster bombs.

Those have a valuable effect against a number of things.

Though the mention of them as a war crime if used in populated areas, that definition is hazy, and whoever would decide what was a civilian area would be highly prejudiced.

"War crimes" seems to be the common complaint about a week into any engagement.

Bombarding civilian areas for terror is a war crime, imo. But I get for diplomatic reasons, especially trying to stop this war, why it might be held back. But using chemical weapons, especially with whole world watching, it will be unavoidable to call a duck, a duck. 

Just now, Westside said:

Yeah, but it makes them sound more “evil” when you call them that. It’s all about the feelz.

You don't think Putin is a war criminal? 

[Westside]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Bombarding civilian areas for terror is a war crime, imo. But I get for diplomatic reasons, especially trying to stop this war, why it might be held back. But using chemical weapons, especially with whole world watching, it will be unavoidable to call a duck, a duck. 

You don't think Putin is a war criminal? 

You and Putin are guilty of the same kind of propaganda. He wants to eliminate by any way possible Ukrainians. 
You want to eliminate anyone who disagrees with you. Even fellow democrats. You both share the same ideology. 
Are you a war criminal?

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Bombarding civilian areas for terror is a war crime, imo. But I get for diplomatic reasons, especially trying to stop this war, why it might be held back. But using chemical weapons, especially with whole world watching, it will be unavoidable to call a duck, a duck. 

You don't think Putin is a war criminal? 

Tibs…you and I often disagree but on this I believe you’re correct. The Russian invasion has been horrific in that there doesn’t seem to be a Ukrainian army to attack so instead Russia is just slamming rockets into apartment buildings. I’m not sure that we’ve ever seen anything like that. Typically, the attacking force claims that the enemy is using these buildings as a shield to hide their military. But Ukraine doesn’t appear to have an organized military. To quote Irv….what a mess!

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Westside said:

You and Putin are guilty of the same kind of propaganda. He wants to eliminate by any way possible Ukrainians. 
You want to eliminate anyone who disagrees with you. Even fellow democrats. You both share the same ideology. 
Are you a war criminal?

LOL!!! 

[John Adams]

4 minutes ago, Westside said:

You and Putin are guilty of the same kind of propaganda. He wants to eliminate by any way possible Ukrainians. 
You want to eliminate anyone who disagrees with you. Even fellow democrats. You both share the same ideology. 
Are you a war criminal?

 

Finally a reasonable voice. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

But Ukraine doesn’t appear to have an organized military. To quote Irv….what a mess!

 

Huh, what makes you think the Ukrainians don't have an "organized military"?

 

 

[sherpa]

20 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Bombarding civilian areas for terror is a war crime, imo.  

You don't think Putin is a war criminal? 

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

You use the terms "civilian areas," and "for terror."

Who gets to make those judgements, because in the last two decades or so, I've seen that "opinion" thrown around in just about every conflict.

 

Regarding Putin, he has already murdered and attempted to murder dissidents.

He is pretty much guilty of everything.

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Huh, what makes you think the Ukrainians don't have an "organized military"?

 

 

Sheesh…I’m sure they have one but we certainly haven’t seen it in action. Have you? 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

You use the terms "civilian areas," and "for terror."

Who gets to make those judgements, because in the last two decades or so, I've seen that "opinion" thrown around in just about every conflict.

 

Regarding Putin, he has already murdered and attempted to murder dissidents.

He is pretty much guilty of everything.

Well, I'm making the judgement. He is bombarding civilian areas to terrorize the people. He's allowing "cease fires" and then shelling the places. Bombing schools, hospitals and residential areas, especially in a war of imperial conquest, is a war crime. The whole war is really a crime, but the wasting of civilians is another level. 

 

Who will judge him on a larger level? Probably no one. He will hide behind his nukes. 

 

I realize that Nuremberg was ex post facto law, but I don't care. Not many people do. 

 

Chemical warfare against helpless civilians will simply make it impossible for leaders not to label him a war criminal 

[T master]

22 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

If Trump were POTUS - Ukraine would not exist today.

 

 

If he was president Putin wouldn't have invaded because the US would have been producing & selling more oil to our EU allies rather than asking all the other communist countries to sell us their oil plus Trump has balls & knows how to be a stronger leader than what is in there now .

 

This bumbling idiot doesn't have a clue & Putin along with China watched as he totally screwed up the with drawl from Afghanistan not to mention how his people screwed up the submarine deal .

 

Then they will still be watching how he handles our now energy crisis which he has created he doesn't have brains enough to just go back to what was being done before he took office this num nuts thinks electric is the solution & when hep all the regulations back on drilling & fracking he totally screwed th eAmerican people which has been proven by watching gas prices increase ever since he took office .

 

Which intern has weakened the US economy world wide but you will never see or admit these stupid actions of this administration & like them will try to blame it all on Putin because you can't see the forest for the tree's but it was set in motion a little over a year ago Putin is going to help push it even higher with his actions .

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Olivia Dalton.  And every Psaki presser.  The Left is using this accusation (disinformation) ad nauseam since Covid and its by design.   

 

 

 

 

Speaking of Covid.  If I believe our government deliberately lied about Covid for 2 years (everyone but President DeSantis) then I pretty much no longer trust anything they say.  

 

In its moment when the leaders of the free world (and this includes Trump who I believe was boxed in and knew this was being used to defeat him) had their moment to actually stand up for freedom and liberty, it cowered and hid - deliberately or out of fear.  Both are disgusting.  

No one was speaking of Covid. Holy conflation.

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

If he was president Putin wouldn't have invaded because the US would have been producing & selling more oil to our EU allies rather than asking all the other communist countries to sell us their oil plus Trump has balls & knows how to be a stronger leader than what is in there now .

 

This bumbling idiot doesn't have a clue & Putin along with China watched as he totally screwed up the with drawl from Afghanistan not to mention how his people screwed up the submarine deal .

 

Then they will still be watching how he handles our now energy crisis which he has created he doesn't have brains enough to just go back to what was being done before he took office this num nuts thinks electric is the solution & when hep all the regulations back on drilling & fracking he totally screwed th eAmerican people which has been proven by watching gas prices increase ever since he took office .

 

Which intern has weakened the US economy world wide but you will never see or admit these stupid actions of this administration & like them will try to blame it all on Putin because you can't see the forest for the tree's but it was set in motion a little over a year ago Putin is going to help push it even higher with his actions .

Yeah, all those LNG exports to europe would mean the EU wouldnt need russian gas somehow preventing a war to make sure Russia doesnt have the EU and NATO at their doorstep....

[Coffeesforclosers]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Sheesh…I’m sure they have one but we certainly haven’t seen it in action. Have you? 

 

Well, what are you looking for as proof?

 

The war was supposed to be over in 96 hours, we're on day 16 and the Russians have lost over a thousand vehicles alone.  They still haven't taken any major cities.  That's pretty strong evidence that "organized" resistance is happening.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Sheesh…I’m sure they have one but we certainly haven’t seen it in action. Have you? 

Do you think civilian militias are operating drones, flying jets, and launching counter attacks against the Russian convoys?  Yeah, I've seen it.

 

When faced with a force 10x your size you aren't going to roll out your tanks to face the enemy head on unless you have Putin level military acumen.  Ukrainian military is ambushing the Russians at every turn.

[dpberr]

9 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Do you think Lavrovs claims about US biowarfare in Ukraine are credible?

 

Yes, but he's throwing stones from a glass house. Every country in the world is playing with this crap, and that's why you'll never get a straight answer on the origins of Covid.

 

 

[Magox]

2 hours ago, 716er said:

Do you think Lavrovs claims about biowarfare are credible? I think that was the question.

 

Havent seen a dodge like that since Eddie Robinson whiffed on Pennington.

 

Lavrov is Baghadad Bob.

 

With that said, I wouldn't be surprised that that at least half from what you are hearing from the Ukrainians is untrue as well.  Let's not forget that Ukrainians are cut from the same cloth as the Russians.  

[Motorin']

30 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Do you think civilian militias are operating drones, flying jets, and launching counter attacks against the Russian convoys?  Yeah, I've seen it.

 

When faced with a force 10x your size you aren't going to roll out your tanks to face the enemy head on unless you have Putin level military acumen.  Ukrainian military is ambushing the Russians at every turn.

 

By the numbers Ukraine's active duty military is about the same number as the Russian invading force, about 200k. Then they have 100k reservists, and 100k veterans. Add to that the people's militia aka territorial defense force, and they outnumber Russia 4 to 1.

 

The Russian advantage is in the number of tanks, planes, artillery and missles. Which is why they are using  ambush tactics. 

 

I think we have to remember that Ukraine landmass is the size of Texas with 15 million more people. I can't imagine how an invading force of 200k could possibly take the state of Texas. Because like in Ukraine, we know the entire state would fight. 

 

So the 200k Russian force is up against 400k Ukrainians soldiers, a militia, and the 40 million citizens that haven't fled.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Motorin'

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, 716er said:

Do you think Lavrovs claims about biowarfare are credible? I think that was the question.

 

Havent seen a dodge like that since Eddie Robinson whiffed on Pennington.

 

She didn't say biowarfare.  She said bio activities.

 

Yes they're credible because we just admitted (after media/democrat denial all last week and more *shocker* "that's disinformation" charges for saying we do and we're falling for Russian propaganda) that indeed there are bio weapons labs in Ukraine we are somehow involved in.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Big Blitz

[716er]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

She didn't say biowarfare.  She said bio activities.

 

 

Lavrov is male.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by 716er

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Lavrov is Baghadad Bob.

 

With that said, I wouldn't be surprised that that at least half from what you are hearing from the Ukrainians is untrue as well.  Let's not forget that Ukrainians are cut from the same cloth as the Russians.  

Not half. We can see the bombs falling and their country being ruined right on CNN. They are being massacred pure and simple 

[Big Blitz]

2 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Lavrov is male.

 

 

 

 

Ok?

 

I was thinking of Nuland

 

Do you believe we don't have a bio-weapons lab there

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

She didn't say biowarfare.  She said bio activities.

 

Yes they're credible because we just admitted (after media/democrat denial all last week and more *shocker* "that's disinformation" charges) that indeed there are bio weapons labs in Ukraine we are somehow involved in.

 

 

 

Who is creditable? 

[Big Blitz]

And Nuland admitted this because they knew these charges from Russia were coming.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Big Blitz

[716er]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

And Nuland admitted this because they knew these charged from Russia were coming.

 

 

 

Keep digging. You'll tie this into your Fauci conspiracy eventually.

[Big Blitz]

2 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Keep digging. You'll tie this into your Fauci conspiracy eventually.

 

 

Keep dodging and being a dupe.  

 

I answered your question.  You cower like you see germs everywhere.

 

It's a simple question.  Do we have a bio lab there yes or no

[Demongyz]

19 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

By the numbers Ukraine's active duty military is about the same number as the Russian invading force, about 200k. Then they have 100k reservists, and 100k veterans. Add to that the people's militia aka territorial defense force, and they outnumber Russia 4 to 1.

 

The Russian advantage is in the number of tanks, planes, artillery and missles. Which is why they are using  ambush tactics. 

 

I think we have to remember that Ukraine landmass is the size of Texas with 15 million more people. I can't imagine how an invading force of 200k could possibly take the state of Texas. Because like in Ukraine, we know the entire state would fight. 

 

So the 200k Russian force is up against 400k Ukrainians soldiers, a militia, and the 40 million citizens that haven't fled.

The difference is the Texans already have guns and know how to use them.  Also, there are probably more vets in Texas than Ukraine and they have real fighting experience.  Anyone invading Texas is going to get smacked up.

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

And Nuland admitted this because they knew these charges from Russia were coming.

 

 

I think she admitted it because she was testifying to congress.  The fact that Rubio asked her and didn't know the answer is spooky.

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

And Nuland admitted this because they knew these charges from Russia were coming.

 

 

Nuland knows everything about what is going on in Ukraine being the architect of the Maiden Protests and overthrow of the Yanukovish government which set all these events in motion during the Obama administration.  My guess is she intentionally "slipped up" in Senate testimony and admitted to the bio labs to front-run the story.  She's too smart to reveal something without any important purpose.   

[Tiberius]

ODESSA, Ukraine — Ukraine’s military claimed Friday that Russia conducted an airstrike on a Belarusian town in an attempt to blame Ukraine for the attack and prompt Belarusian forces to fight with Russia.

At 2:30 p.m., Russian planes left an airfield over Belarus, entered Ukrainian airspace and then turned around over the northwest Ukrainian towns of Tumen and Horodyshche, the Ukrainian Armed Forces said in a statement on Twitter. The planes then “inflicted a fiery defeat on the settlement of Kopani,” a Belarusian town near the border with Ukraine, the statement said.

In a Facebook post, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov said that Russia “is preparing a series of bloody provocations” on the Belarusian territory.

[Demongyz]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

ODESSA, Ukraine — Ukraine’s military claimed Friday that Russia conducted an airstrike on a Belarusian town in an attempt to blame Ukraine for the attack and prompt Belarusian forces to fight with Russia.

At 2:30 p.m., Russian planes left an airfield over Belarus, entered Ukrainian airspace and then turned around over the northwest Ukrainian towns of Tumen and Horodyshche, the Ukrainian Armed Forces said in a statement on Twitter. The planes then “inflicted a fiery defeat on the settlement of Kopani,” a Belarusian town near the border with Ukraine, the statement said.

In a Facebook post, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov said that Russia “is preparing a series of bloody provocations” on the Belarusian territory.

I'm sure president D-bag of Belarus knew about it too.  Sick bastards.

[Big Blitz]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Nuland knows everything about what is going on in Ukraine being the architect of the Maiden Protests and overthrow of the Yanukovish government which set all these events in motion during the Obama administration.  My guess is she intentionally "slipped up" in Senate testimony and admitted to the bio labs to front-run the story.  She's too smart to reveal something without any important purpose.   

 

 

And maybe I wouldn't find an issue with this but since we're being dragged into WWIII to distract from Great Depression and Stagflation Part 2 - and oops sorry we were so wrong about Covid and broke the planet - essentially we're taking foreign policy advice from The Lonely Island 

 

 

 

[John Adams]

23 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

She didn't say biowarfare.  She said bio activities.

 

Yes they're credible because we just admitted (after media/democrat denial all last week and more *shocker* "that's disinformation" charges for saying we do and we're falling for Russian propaganda) that indeed there are bio weapons labs in Ukraine we are somehow involved in.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you so ######ed that you think biological research facility = bio weapons? 

 

You are doing Russia and China a great service Comrade. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Well, what are you looking for as proof?

 

The war was supposed to be over in 96 hours, we're on day 16 and the Russians have lost over a thousand vehicles alone.  They still haven't taken any major cities.  That's pretty strong evidence that "organized" resistance is happening.

I’m not trying to get into an argument here. We’ve seen very little to no footage of an organized Ukrainian military. We’ve however seen tons of stories about average citizens taking up arms. I’m sure it’s just the way the media is choosing to cover it , but think about it….We have seen the Ukrainian President speaking from unknown underground locations and no interviews with Ukrainian military officials.

[John Adams]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not trying to get into an argument here. We’ve seen very little to no footage of an organized Ukrainian military. We’ve however seen tons of stories about average citizens taking up arms. I’m sure it’s just the way the media is choosing to cover it , but think about it….We have seen the Ukrainian President speaking from unknown underground locations and no interviews with Ukrainian military officials.

 

Who do you think is operating the drones and counterattacks? Do you think Yuri and Alexis, the schoolteachers that get all the Twitter love, are using anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons? 

 

Maybe the military leadership is like, busy? And Zelensky is playing the role of political leader? 

[Motorin']

28 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Lavrov is male.

 

 

 

Lavrov is male, therefore Lavrov is cloning men. 

 

Meanwhile, Russia disinformation campaigns have a long history. Back in 1983, they launched Operation Denver. A global campaign the spread the rumor that the US created HIV and infected Africa. 

 

https://direct.mit.edu/jcws/article-abstract/23/3/4/106859/Operation-Denver-The-East-German-Ministry-for?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Edited March 11, 2022 by Motorin'

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

Who do you think is operating the drones and counterattacks? Do you think Yuri and Alexis, the schoolteachers that get all the Twitter love, are using anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons? 

 

Maybe the military leadership is like, busy? And Zelensky is playing the role of political leader? 

Relax John.
I’m making a comment on how this is being portrayed on TV. 

[716er]

25 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

You cower like you see germs everywhere.

 

 

Pretty sure you're the clown who said we would be masked up forever.

 

Too bad.

 

You eat Russian propaganda for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, then excrete it like Tubgirl for all to see on this wonderful forum.

 

Don't forget to wipe.

Edited March 11, 2022 by 716er