Pegulas invite UB football to new stadium. UB prefers to stay on campus.

[BillStime]

15 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

The problem we face with a downtown stadium is infrastructure. There just is not enough entry/exit points and the ones that are; Route 5, 190, 33 etc just cannot handle the volume of traffic once you hit Buffalo cholk points. Ever leave after a packed Sabres game or event at the Arena? The area would have to invest at minimum 2-3 billion just in infrastructure to make it work. 

UB is not viable either! Maple, Audobon, Millersport, and the 990 aint gonna cut it either. Leaving UB fireworks with maybe 10k people is comical.
 

 

How many transportation options do we have to/from Orchard Park?

 

How many major thoroughfares intersect in Orchard Park?

 

How many different options do people have to and from a downtown stadium? 

 

Foot
Car

Bus

Metro

Boat

190

33

5

The options are endless - side streets:

 

 

Now do Orchard Park.

 

[Draconator]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

I imagine the Bills dont want to have their practice field and facilities miles away from their stadium.  For logistical reasons keeping it in OP actually makes a lot of sense.

 

Why do you think the 49ers moved to Santa Clara? That's where the teams practice facilities and offices were. The players used to drive to Santa Clara, and there would be a bus convoy up the 101 to Candlestick. Passed it many times on a Sunday evening. 

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes that is nitpicking. Infrastructure includes roads, utilities, etc. Does that help? 

I meant the training and practice facilites along with the ticket and administration offices. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by BTB

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Draconator said:

 

Why do you think the 49ers moved to Santa Clara? That's where the teams practice facilities and offices were. The players used to drive to Santa Clara, and there would be a bus convoy up the 101 to Candlestick. Passed it many times on a Sunday evening. 

 

I doubt that was the main reason. Probably access to land was the big one.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Pegula just looking for another funding source

Maybe he tries returning his empties for the deposit? 🤔

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I doubt that was the main reason. Probably access to land was the big one.

In 1996, the City of San Francisco had a vote for the residents to allow the city to build a new mall and football stadium at the Candlestick Site. It passed. Some council members fought the vote the residents approved. The 49ers got sick of waiting, and built their facilities in Santa Clara. Then they just went ahead and built Levi's Stadium at the same site. Got tired of the infighting and waiting. Kinda like the same thing going on with the A's in Oakland. 

[billsfan_34]

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I go to UB football and basketball games all the time. 5K for Basketball, 15-20K for football. Never an issue leaving.

15-20k huge difference from 60k plus fans and another 20k tailgating. C’mon PTR you can do better than that 😂

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

How many transportation options do we have to/from Orchard Park?

 

How many major thoroughfares intersect in Orchard Park?

 

How many different options do people have to and from a downtown stadium? 

 

Foot
Car

Bus

Metro

Boat

190

33

5

The options are endless - side streets:

 

 

Now do Orchard Park.

 

Yeah, a boat in November and December when Marinas are closed lol

[Doc]

Big mistake on their part. But that’s their business. 

[billsfan_34]

9 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I don't get how the infrastructure in OP is any better. It's like a stadium dropped in the back of a neighborhood that happens to have some roads converge into a parking lot nearby. The city has to have more entry & exit points than that.

Well, with at least 250 home games under my belt and more with Sabres games, I can with certainty say it is much much different. 
 

I really shouldn’t have to explain the differences if you have been to the stadium and arena when at full capacity. Now, add 40-60k downtown and perhaps you can formulate a viable conclusion.

[PromoTheRobot]

21 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

15-20k huge difference from 60k plus fans and another 20k tailgating. C’mon PTR you can do better than that 😂

Yeah, a boat in November and December when Marinas are closed lol

 

If you were paying attention to the post I was replying to, that person acted like 10K for a fireworks display brought the world to a standstill. My point is 20K is no big deal. I wonder if people's expectation of what traffic is isn't a little skewed in WNY. Waiting 10-15 minutes leaving a sporting events qualifies as intolerable. 

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

Big mistake on their part. But that’s their business. 

 

Just to be clear, who's making the mistake? 

[Punching Bag]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Hiding under a rock waiting for just the right moment to arrive on the seen…, 😁👍

 

i found a picture of him

 

[BillStime]

37 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

15-20k huge difference from 60k plus fans and another 20k tailgating. C’mon PTR you can do better than that 😂

Yeah, a boat in November and December when Marinas are closed lol

Get me a boat to OP - quick! 

PS: freakin hilarious when Buffalo complains about traffic.

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Just to be clear, who's making the mistake? 

UB.  

[Augie]

50 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Get me a boat to OP - quick! 

PS: freakin hilarious when Buffalo complains about traffic.

 

This guy living in Atlanta gets a nice chuckle out of it!  😂

 

One of my favorite things about Buffalo is the LACK of traffic (along with the Bills, summer/fall weather, food and people). Even on a game day, it seems to me there isn’t a big problem with traffic on the roads. Getting in and out of the lots? Well, that’s a TOTALLY different story. 

 

I don’t care because I just wanted the Bills to remain in WNY, but my experience with “city stadiums” has been pretty good in terms of traffic in and out. More options to just turn and get some distance between you and the stadium. Yeah, I’m sure it would have significant expenses associated, but it CAN work and work well. Again, I’m happy wherever they put it. 

 

 

.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Augie

[boater]

The stadium will be in Orchard Park as long as the Bills are footing most of the tab. He who pays the most gets to choose the location.

 

If a downtown stadium is desired, the state would have to pickup the 1 billion tab for infrastructure improvements, a highly unlikely scenario.

[RyanC883]

much better to stay in campus. Pitt moved games to Heinz field, and the home field advantage is now gone.  

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

UB.  

 

I agree. But they really want their students involved. Personally I want the most fans at games. In WNY football is played in Highmark Stadium. If UB was there, especially on weekends when the Bills were on the road, people would come out just for an excuse to tailgate. And it's been pretty good ball the last few years.

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

There are several factors that go into UB attendance. Quality of opponent and time of game are big. (Remember the MAC plays a couple Tuesday/Wednesday games that draw crowds in the dozens!) But a typical Saturday game gets between 15-20K. Basketball averages around 4-5K.

 

The article also describes a plan to improve the current UB Stadium by removing the running track, digging down 10 feet and adding closer seating. But it's still a terrible stadium.

 

But if NYS is going to spend money on that AND a new Bills stadium, why not at least look at building one shared facility? Why not tear down the current UB Stadium and build a new one on the same spot? UB could play at Highmark for a few years during construction.

 

UB didn't even get brought up as a contender to move up to the AAC, which is kind of a slap in the face considering it's the flagship public athletic program in New York State. A new stadium might make them more attractive.

Something Tells me that's not going to happen , seeing as the UB track and field team participate there still I believe 

 

I don't think they're going to uproot their home turf

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Something Tells me that's not going to happen , seeing as the UB track and field team participate there still I believe 

 

I don't think they're going to uproot their home turf

 

 

AD Mark Alnutt says a new track/soccer stadium is part of the plan. Probably enhancing Kuntz Field.

Edited September 25, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[BillStime]

24 minutes ago, boater said:

The stadium will be in Orchard Park as long as the Bills are footing most of the tab. He who pays the most gets to choose the location.

 

If a downtown stadium is desired, the state would have to pickup the 1 billion tab for infrastructure improvements, a highly unlikely scenario.

And it would be a wise investment for the state to make.

 

Areas like WNY only get one transformational opportunity a lifetime to capitalize on a billion plus dollar opportunity.

 

The state should invest in Buffalo and make the city the regional hub of WNY. Make it easier for people who live, work and visit the city an easier place to be.

 

A downtown stadium enables the region to make the necessary transportation improvements and enhancements that will benefit the ENTIRE region; not just OP. We will never get a subway to Orchard Park - but we just might be able to make the case for a subway to UB, the airport, Niagara Falls etc.

 

Make it easier for our largest growing economic powerhouse in the region (Southern Ontario) to get to Buffalo and secure the long term viability of the franchise and the region.

 

I know for most on this site it comes down to securing the long time tradition of tailgating. I get it - I love it too - but you will adapt with a city experience just like the folks do in Nashville, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, Baltimore and so on.

 

I went to a game in Seattle where the stadium is tucked into a neighborhood filled offices, hotels, condos, restaurants and bars and the whole area was jumping.

 

Do it right 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

And it would be a wise investment for the state to make.

 

Areas like WNY only get one transformational opportunity a lifetime to capitalize on a billion plus dollar opportunity.

 

The state should invest in Buffalo and make the city the regional hub of WNY. Make it easier for people who live, work and visit the city an easier place to be.

 

A downtown stadium enables the region to make the necessary transportation improvements and enhancements that will benefit the ENTIRE region; not just OP. We will never get a subway to Orchard Park - but we just might be able to make the case for a subway to UB, the airport, Niagara Falls etc.

 

Make it easier for our largest growing economic powerhouse in the region (Southern Ontario) to get to Buffalo and secure the long term viability of the franchise and the region.

 

I know for most on this site it comes down to securing the long time tradition of tailgating. I get it - I love it too - but you will adapt with a city experience just like the folks do in Nashville, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, Baltimore and so on.

 

I went to a game in Seattle where the stadium is tucked into a neighborhood filled offices, hotels, condos, restaurants and bars and the whole area was jumping.

 

Do it right 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's going to end up going where it's going

 

And buffalo isn't any of those cities you named .. it has its own identity

 

The fact that a downtown stadium is going to cost astronomically more, and that there's no economic impact

 

Is definitely going to swing judgment 

 

As much as you are hoping for that rail line from the city to the airport it is never going to happen  

 

 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's going to end up going where it's going

 

And buffalo isn't any of those cities you named .. it has its own identity

 

The fact that a downtown stadium is going to cost astronomically more, and that there's no economic impact

 

Is definitely going to swing judgment 

 

As much as you are hoping for that rail line from the city to the airport it is never going to happen  

 

 

👆And this is why the region is dying and the long term future of the Bills will be forever in doubt.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, BillStime said:

And it would be a wise investment for the state to make.

 

Areas like WNY only get one transformational opportunity a lifetime to capitalize on a billion plus dollar opportunity.

 

The state should invest in Buffalo and make the city the regional hub of WNY. Make it easier for people who live, work and visit the city an easier place to be.

 

A downtown stadium enables the region to make the necessary transportation improvements and enhancements that will benefit the ENTIRE region; not just OP. We will never get a subway to Orchard Park - but we just might be able to make the case for a subway to UB, the airport, Niagara Falls etc.

 

Make it easier for our largest growing economic powerhouse in the region (Southern Ontario) to get to Buffalo and secure the long term viability of the franchise and the region.

 

I know for most on this site it comes down to securing the long time tradition of tailgating. I get it - I love it too - but you will adapt with a city experience just like the folks do in Nashville, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, Baltimore and so on.

 

I went to a game in Seattle where the stadium is tucked into a neighborhood filled offices, hotels, condos, restaurants and bars and the whole area was jumping.

 

Do it right 

 

 

 

 

 

 

huh?  Buffalo recently did get a billion from the state.  It didn’t transform much and the whole process was riddled with corruption 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

👆And this is why the region is dying and the long term future of the Bills will be forever in doubt.

When the bills build new stadium.. there will be no doubt in their future

 

Except the negative nancies who like to play Doom.. our local politicians who we voted for, know they need to get us a stadium or they're not getting reelected  

 

And I don't think a stadium downtown will be the revival of Buffalo.. cities been in revival for 20 years... one Neighborhood at a time... And there's been a lot of studies shown that there's no economic impact from a new stadium

Edited September 25, 2021 by Buffalo716

[BillStime]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

huh?  Buffalo recently did get a billion from the state.  It didn’t transform much and the whole process was riddled with corruption 

1) Yea - shocker - developers taking advantage of public money. Find a publicly funded project that doesn’t. 

 

2) Not the governments fault Tesla hasn't met growth expectations and is still slowly ramping up.

 

3) Downtown stadium isn’t going to go to remote, unaccessible location like the Tesla plant.

 

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

When the bills build new stadium.. there will be no doubt in their future

 

Except the negative nancies who like to play Doom.. our local politicians who we voted for, know they need to get us a stadium or they're not getting reelected  

 

And I don't think a stadium downtown will be the revival of Buffalo.. cities been in revival for 20 years... one Neighborhood at a time... And there's been a lot of studies shown that there's no economic impact from a new stadium

And let’s keep repeating the same mistakes from the past 50 years and ensure there is zero economic impact to the region building in OP.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, BillStime said:

1) Yea - shocker - developers taking advantage of public money. Find a publicly funded project that doesn’t. 

 

2) Not the governments fault Tesla hasn't met growth expectations and is still slowly ramping up.

 

3) Downtown stadium isn’t going to go to remote, unaccessible location like the Tesla plant.

 

And let’s keep repeating the same mistakes from the past 50 years and ensure there is zero economic impact to the region building in OP.

A stadium downtown will do nothing for the economy of Buffalo

 

Buffalo is already a beautiful place, with a lot going for it

 

The places that are struggling are like the east side.. the biggest area of Buffalo

 

And a stadium downtown is going to do nothing for the East side , the place that needs it the most 

 

Downtown, canalside, the harbor, Allentown, Shea's district, are all beautiful and gorgeous.. and have money flowing through them 

 

Parts of the West side and the East side need a lot of help.. new stadiums doing nothing for them

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

A stadium downtown will do nothing for the economy of Buffalo

 

Buffalo is already a beautiful place, with a lot going for it

 

The places that are struggling are like the east side.. the biggest area of Buffalo

 

And a stadium downtown is going to do nothing for the East side , the place that needs it the most 

 

Downtown, canalside, the harbor, Allentown, Shea's district, are all beautiful and gorgeous.. and have money flowing through them 

 

Parts of the West side and the East side need a lot of help.. new stadiums doing nothing for them

And a stadium in OP guarantees it won’t do anything for the areas that need it most.
 

You keep making the case for a downtown stadium and you don’t even realize it. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

And a stadium in OP guarantees it won’t do anything for the areas that need it most.
 

You keep making the case for a downtown stadium and you don’t even realize it. 

I've read a lot of studies on new stadiums being built and economic impacts 

 

Studies basically all show the economic impact is negligible.. wherever the stadium is 

 

So a stadium downtown is doing nothing for the economy of Buffalo.. you build the stadium to keep the bills 

 

Not because it has an economic impact 

 

And a stadium downtown will do absolutely nothing for the east side of Buffalo.. nobody does anything for the east side of Buffalo

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Buffalo716

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I've read a lot of studies on new stadiums being built and economic impacts 

 

Studies basically all show the economic impact is negligible.. wherever the stadium is 

 

So a stadium downtown is doing nothing for the economy of Buffalo.. you build the stadium to keep the bills 

 

Not because it has an economic impact 

 

And a stadium downtown will do absolutely nothing for the east side of Buffalo.. nobody does anything for the east side of Buffalo

 

 

So let’s keep sprawling outside the core so those areas in need are forever in decay.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, BillStime said:

So let’s keep sprawling outside the core so those areas in need are forever in decay.

I would love for the East side to be turned around

 

I spend a lot of my time there... Great people in hard conditions

 

 

 

 

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Lot 2 would likely be big enough, and I think that is their idea.. There would otherwise, be enough parking infrastructure, for the 60k facility.

Buffalo is an 'old' city with its regard to planning(or lack thereof) . It's like lower Manhattan. narrow streets everywhere....

Exactly- people cannot understand that simple concept.

3 hours ago, BillStime said:

Get me a boat to OP - quick! 

PS: freakin hilarious when Buffalo complains about traffic.

Im not complaining- just pointing out the obvious. 

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

If you were paying attention to the post I was replying to, that person acted like 10K for a fireworks display brought the world to a standstill. My point is 20K is no big deal. I wonder if people's expectation of what traffic is isn't a little skewed in WNY. Waiting 10-15 minutes leaving a sporting events qualifies as intolerable. 

 

Just to be clear, who's making the mistake? 

No, that was not my point with the fireworks. Point was, a simple 10k makes it messy, imagine 80k. Oh well, doesnt matter they will put it where they want it.

[BillStime]

There's reason for NFL to fear Jeff Bezos. But it's not big enough to keep him out, especially if London is in play

 

All the more reason to help make the Bills more viable in one of the leagues smallest markets.

 

Small thinking like building in OP does not help the owners maximize revenue. Does nothing to help the tax payers maximize its investment.

 

Does nothing for WNY to help turn itself around and it starts by capitalizing on these once in a lifetime transformative opportunities.

 

The league does not care about your desire to tailgate.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I agree. But they really want their students involved. Personally I want the most fans at games. In WNY football is played in Highmark Stadium. If UB was there, especially on weekends when the Bills were on the road, people would come out just for an excuse to tailgate. And it's been pretty good ball the last few years.

Yeah, it could make it harder for students to get there.  

[MWK]

8 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Would be great.  Certainly would vault the UB program a couple notches and would make the Big 10 realistic.

 

Downtown is not really feasible.  The studies have shown that which is why there is zero momentum or chatter pointing downtown.  

 

Anyone who has been to a sold out Sabres game or concert that people didn't leave early can attest.  Especially as you park closer to the arena, compounded if you park in a ramp.  The streets are too narrow, lots of one-way, some dead ends, and virtually no egress to the south, and limited to the west.  You have to crawl your way through a grid of gridlocked streets to reach the 190.  Triple the crowd, even double... ugh.   

 

I don't know the exact layout over there at ub/Amherst, but it sounds like there could be some options and some space.  You have the 990, 290, and even millersport and Sheridan to move people.  You're starting from scratch though for land acquisition, parking space, and all that.

 

The only way SUNY Buffalo is getting to the Big 10 is if they are bought for a game in football. They can’t even fill their ugly track stadium with 25,000 people. It would be embarrassing for them to try to play at our new stadium. Now look at the Big 10’s attendance and football budgets. A couple trips to the Cheez It bowl aren’t going to sway the AAC, let alone the Big 10. My God some people are delusional.

Edited September 25, 2021 by MWK

[chris heff]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

much better to stay in campus. Pitt moved games to Heinz field, and the home field advantage is now gone.  

Miami Hurricanes have never played on campus.

[chris heff]

I haven’t lived in Buffalo for fifty years. I remember when I was was a kid downtown was vibrant. There were restaurants, retail stores, department stores and theaters. Went there a lot, my father’s office was in the Marine Midland Building. It died a slow death starting in the 1960s. In my last few visits we stayed at the Marriott Canal Side. I was shocked (pleasantly so) to see people enjoying the Buffalo River, kids swimming in it. I believe it was cleaned up with public funding. I drove down Fruman (sorry if I got that wrong) on the outer harbor, agin surprised, people enjoying themselves. The middle harbor (don’t know if that’s what it’s called) and the inner harbor need a lot more work, but it could be great. Are any of those factories or grain elevators functioning? If not get rid of them, find some other use. 
 

I haven’t been to Orchard Park in years, haven’t been to the stadium in years. I know people are emotionally invested in that location, however it became the location by default. The money, the infrastructure, the emotional attachment is a lot to overcome. If something isn’t growing it’s dying. I fear that if the State, the Pegulas and the community take the path of least resistance it will just maintain the status quo. There are two things people hate, change and the way things are. Success comes from being bold not safe. I’d love to see downtown Buffalo vibrant again for those that love that city, whether that be a resident or a visitor.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Yeah, it could make it harder for students to get there.  

But TG weekend they aren't around anyway. 

[Buffalo716]

20 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I haven’t lived in Buffalo for fifty years. I remember when I was was a kid downtown was vibrant. There were restaurants, retail stores, department stores and theaters. Went there a lot, my father’s office was in the Marine Midland Building. It died a slow death starting in the 1960s. In my last few visits we stayed at the Marriott Canal Side. I was shocked (pleasantly so) to see people enjoying the Buffalo River, kids swimming in it. I believe it was cleaned up with public funding. I drove down Fruman (sorry if I got that wrong) on the outer harbor, agin surprised, people enjoying themselves. The middle harbor (don’t know if that’s what it’s called) and the inner harbor need a lot more work, but it could be great. Are any of those factories or grain elevators functioning? If not get rid of them, find some other use. 
 

I haven’t been to Orchard Park in years, haven’t been to the stadium in years. I know people are emotionally invested in that location, however it became the location by default. The money, the infrastructure, the emotional attachment is a lot to overcome. If something isn’t growing it’s dying. I fear that if the State, the Pegulas and the community take the path of least resistance it will just maintain the status quo. There are two things people hate, change and the way things are. Success comes from being bold not safe. I’d love to see downtown Buffalo vibrant again for those that love that city, whether that be a resident or a visitor.

Still a resident of Buffalo

 

I don't think anybody saying they don't want the city to be bustling.. it's already a beautiful city 

 

The only thing is there's been a lot of studies shown that downtown stadiums do nothing for a cities  economy... So statistically building a stadium downtown is going to do nothing for the economy

 

Football stadiums are never money makers for the economy

 

So it's one thing to want buffalo to be beautiful and bustling.. but a stadium downtown is not going to make that happen .

 

It's not what changes cities

 

 

[longtimebillsfan]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:58 PM, Nextmanup said:

I have no real opinion on the new stadium aside from the fact that I adamantly oppose putting it in OP again.

 

That's a huge mistake, which is why I expect it to happen given the history of WNY politics.

 

 

 

 

The one thing I don't understand about those of you that want a downtown location, you realize tailgating will be very limited or non existent.  The Raiders fans still complain about a lack of tailgating opportunities at Alegent stadium.  Tailgating is such a huge part of the fan experience in OP. why would you want to give that up?  OP gives the fans tailgating opportunities that are rapidly disappearing throughout the NFL.

[BillStime]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Still a resident of Buffalo

 

I don't think anybody saying they don't want the city to be bustling.. it's already a beautiful city 

 

The only thing is there's been a lot of studies shown that downtown stadiums do nothing for a cities  economy... So statistically building a stadium downtown is going to do nothing for the economy

 

Football stadiums are never money makers for the economy

 

So it's one thing to want buffalo to be beautiful and bustling.. but a stadium downtown is not going to make that happen .

 

It's not what changes cities

 

 

Buffalo is unique - has infrastructure to support a city three times its size.

I know there are studies out there that say there is little economic benefit to a downtown stadium. 
 

I can fund a study too that says a downtown stadium near a casino is an economic goldmine.

 

I wonder if those studies ever  focused on NFL cities the size of Buffalo - the second smallest city in the NFL and an economically deprived city with numerous bombed out corners covered by parking lots, limited subway infrastructure, and a population base that is slowly growing.

 

They probably focused on large cities w limited space, bursting population centers and vibrant economies.

 

The area has to find a way to bring the core back and develop from the center.