Royale with Cheese Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Is this what crazy looks like? https://news.yahoo.com/tiktok-video-shows-allegedly-unruly-175829725.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Sounds like your type of woman. 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 I always wonder when, if ever, people will understand that you cannot open a door in flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 I don't have a problem with restraining someone who's tried opening an airplane door. I do have a problem with the tape over the mouth though. If the crew gets reprimanded for anything in this particular situation, it's going to be that detail. I think people who try to open doors mid-flight, charge the cockpit, and other let's crash the plane chicanery should face a mandatory jail sentence, mental health episode or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 What the hell is ducted tape? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 What they don't say in that link that I've seen in other articles, is the TikTok user thought they went too far with how they restrained the passenger. Um, excuse me? Someone trying to open a door mid-flight or make any disruption that could harm their fellow passengers, get what they deserve. I noticed when I tried to find the original TT user video, their entire account has been deleted. Must be they didn't like the feedback they were getting on their post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Duct tape has so many uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Duct tape has so many uses. See Apollo 13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 20 minutes ago, sherpa said: See Apollo 13. I'll wait for the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, dpberr said: I don't have a problem with restraining someone who's tried opening an airplane door. I do have a problem with the tape over the mouth though. If the crew gets reprimanded for anything in this particular situation, it's going to be that detail. I think people who try to open doors mid-flight, charge the cockpit, and other let's crash the plane chicanery should face a mandatory jail sentence, mental health episode or not. What if she was trying to bite people? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 54 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Duct tape has so many uses. 15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: What if she was trying to bite people? Ok, so they won't charge her for the 'moustache line' depilatory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Striker Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, dpberr said: II think people who try to open doors mid-flight, charge the cockpit... The cockpit! What is it? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, dpberr said: If the crew gets reprimanded for anything in this particular situation, it's going to be that detail. Won't happen. Attempting to open a door in flight is an attempt to take down the airplane. Any force, including lethal, is authorized. Aside, flight attendants go through recurrent training on a regular basis, and are trained in this type of thing, thus their actions. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 1 hour ago, sherpa said: I always wonder when, if ever, people will understand that you cannot open a door in flight. I always wonder when, if ever, people will understand the difference between "may" and "can." Sure you CAN open a door in flight, but you MAY NOT open a door in flightVA! Anyway... ¡Oye coma va! Why now so many psychotic episodes, or have they always happened... Are we just hearing about them more? Before we were married, my wife was on a Greyhound bus years ago, in the early 1990s, on her way from Chicago to Champaign on I-57... A male passenger wigged out in a psychotic episode. It was during a snowstorm. The make passenger wanted the bus to stop during a white-out... He wanted to leave the bus... Dude be freaking!! He was going crazy, ranting in Spanish too. The bus driver told him that they were NOT going to stop, that it would be sure death if they did. After pacing, roaming up and down the bus aisle a few times, the Spanish-speaking crazy guy calmed down and sat in the empty seat righg next to my future wife... And... AND took off his shoes and started to clean them!😆🤣 The rest of the bus ride was uneventful, except for the bilzzard. Thanks to the honorable service and quick thinking of the bus driver, tragedy was averted and we've been happily married ever since. My shoes will always be spotless, even in the slop of winter with you by my side!😊💘❤ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I always wonder when, if ever, people will understand the difference between "may" and "can." Sure you CAN open a door in flight, but you MAY NOT open a door in flightVA! No you can't. It would take over 2000 pounds of strength to open one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: No you can't. It would take over 2000 pounds of strength to open one. Then let he have at it. Nothing to worry about. 😏 How did DB Cooper? Maybe it was the back door and it takes a lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Then let he have at it. Nothing to worry about. 😏 How did DB Cooper? Maybe it was the back door and it takes a lot less. Cooper went out the rear door on a 727, and leads to an unpressurized tail section. He also insisted the airplane remain unpressurized. Wouldn't have worked if pressurized. Completely different situation. Edited July 14, 2021 by sherpa 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Just now, sherpa said: Cooper went out the rear door on a 727, and leads to an unpressurized tail section. Completely different operation. Does it become easier to open a side door once the cabin loses pressure? Or is it still impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 I added to the DB Cooper thing. That airplane was unpressurized, per his insistence. To answer your question, once the cabin is depressurized, the doors will open, if other issues are resolved, which I won't go into. Two examples. An Airbus took off from Miami, had some sort of engine problem resulting in smoke. On landing, because certain responses to the emergency caused certain systems to be unpowered, the airplane remained pressurized. After shutting down the remaining engine at the gate, the airplane started depressurizing, reaching a point where a strong male flight attendant was able to open a door. He did so thinking that the still existing smoke was an issue. Eventually pumped up on adrenaline, he got a door open. the resulting force blew him out of the airplane and he fell 18' do his death. Another story. Muslims do the Hajj thing. An L-1011 carrying a full load to the Hajj had a full flight of pax that don't do air travel. A few of them brought sterno type things and started cooking in the cabin. A fire ensued. The airplane landed still pressurized and folks were unable to open the doors. Nobody figure it out and everyone died in the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 30 minutes ago, sherpa said: No you can't. It would take over 2000 pounds of strength to open one. That's good to know. I was wondering why there wasn't some kind of safety lock-out mechanism to prevent unauthorized access. Apparently there's no need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, WhoTom said: That's good to know. I was wondering why there wasn't some kind of safety lock-out mechanism to prevent unauthorized access. Apparently there's no need. Actually, you don't want to deny access to opening the door. If something happens and you need to evacuate, it is desirable that the door works no matter who operates it. During normal operations, on takeoff and landing a flight attendant sits at a jumpseat next to the door he/she is responsible for. There are two operation to it. One is making sure it is closed with that big lever, and the other is arming the escape slide. If something happens and someone opens it with the escape slide armed, which it always is after starting taxi and until gate arrival, the slide is going to blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 2 hours ago, sherpa said: I always wonder when, if ever, people will understand that you cannot open a door in flight. They never will. Ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 are we going to need a note from a shrink or be given ativan to fly now? people cant contain their craziness like they used to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, sherpa said: No you can't. It would take over 2000 pounds of strength to open one. I always wondered about that, since interior pressure would be greater, I assumed it would aid in opening the door. ...but apparently it has to do with the plane fuselage changing shape. Which is even scarier. Edited July 14, 2021 by unbillievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 5 hours ago, sherpa said: I added to the DB Cooper thing. That airplane was unpressurized, per his insistence. To answer your question, once the cabin is depressurized, the doors will open, if other issues are resolved, which I won't go into. Two examples. An Airbus took off from Miami, had some sort of engine problem resulting in smoke. On landing, because certain responses to the emergency caused certain systems to be unpowered, the airplane remained pressurized. After shutting down the remaining engine at the gate, the airplane started depressurizing, reaching a point where a strong male flight attendant was able to open a door. He did so thinking that the still existing smoke was an issue. Eventually pumped up on adrenaline, he got a door open. the resulting force blew him out of the airplane and he fell 18' do his death. Another story. Muslims do the Hajj thing. An L-1011 carrying a full load to the Hajj had a full flight of pax that don't do air travel. A few of them brought sterno type things and started cooking in the cabin. A fire ensued. The airplane landed still pressurized and folks were unable to open the doors. Nobody figure it out and everyone died in the fire. So one CAN open the door without being a 2000 pound strongman. Just depressurize the cabin first... Or slowly start equalizing the pressure to free the mechanism/latch. Probably why they didn't want her working on that door. LoL... Never say it can't be done. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Crazy is as crazy does, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 The psychosis we see that seems more rampant nowadays, can we blame the weed and genetic predisposition? 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 9 hours ago, dpberr said: I don't have a problem with restraining someone who's tried opening an airplane door. I do have a problem with the tape over the mouth though. If the crew gets reprimanded for anything in this particular situation, it's going to be that detail. If someone does that on a plane I'm on duct tape is going to be the least of their problems. I'll take my chances with a jury of my peers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 11 hours ago, Limeaid said: Duct tape has so many uses. As Red Green says; it's "the handyman's secret weapon!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, unbillievable said: I always wondered about that, since interior pressure would be greater, I assumed it would aid in opening the door. ...but apparently it has to do with the plane fuselage changing shape. Which is even scarier. Not to worry. It isn't scary, they are cleverly designed. Cabin doors, unlike cargo doors are "plug" type doors. Think of you sink or tub plugs. To remove, they must be pulled in first. Ultimately they swing out, but the first movement must be in, so the cabin pressure prevents this. Of course they are latched as well, by the big handle. Because they are so heavy, is a hydraulic assist that makes it easier. Got to thinking about it and did the math. At cruise it would take about 25,000 pounds to open the door. Aint happenin'. Less closer to the ground, but very significant. Edited July 15, 2021 by sherpa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 7 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: So one CAN open the door without being a 2000 pound strongman. Just depressurize the cabin first... Or slowly start equalizing the pressure to free the mechanism/latch. Probably why they didn't want her working on that door. LoL... Never say it can't be done. 😉 How are you going to depressurize the cabin? No chance she was going to get the door opened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 53 minutes ago, sherpa said: How are you going to depressurize the cabin? No chance she was going to get the door opened. Then what are we worried about with regards to the door? Maybe she calms down without all the needless duct tape. Go up to the door and say: "SEE crazy lady, it's impossible, the pressure is too great on the inside." ...And begin to fiddle with the door seal (which of course is against the law for a reason... 😏) 😆 Let's call it like it is. She was subdued for her own safety and the immediate safety of others, NOT the safety of the plane in flight. She won't crash the plane, we just don't want a crazy lady running around the cabin so we duct taped her down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 46 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Then what are we worried about with regards to the door? Maybe she calms down without all the needless duct tape. Go up to the door and say: "SEE crazy lady, it's impossible, the pressure is too great on the inside." ...And begin to fiddle with the door seal (which of course is against the law for a reason... 😏) 😆 Let's call it like it is. She was subdued for her own safety and the immediate safety of others, NOT the safety of the plane in flight. She won't crash the plane, we just don't want a crazy lady running around the cabin so we duct taped her down. I don't think you get this, just as you didn't get the stinky passenger thing or the cancellation because a group of kids refused to wear masks, insulted flight attendants and refused to cease playing profane music when requested. This woman attacked a flight attendant and was messing with the door. You don't try to operate a door, whether the primary entry doors, over wing hatches or the cockpit just as you don't mess with fire extinguishers, emergency O2 masks stowed overhead, or various things in the restrooms that you don't need. If you try to damage something you are going to be restrained, and for good reason. These people are not stupid and they train for these events at every recurrent training cycle as well as get constant updates on these kinds of things all the time. You may have an "opinion," and that's your business. They kind of know what they're doing and having anyone out of control on an aircraft is going to get responded to and hopefully before the passengers respond because that's how things get out of control. Let professional mental health people on the ground judge her mental state later. While she was not going to able to open a door inflight, she could certainly damage it or the emergency slide inside. You don't walk into a restaurant or movie theater and start messing around with things that don't concern you an are not your property, and you certainly are not going to be permitted to do that on an airliner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 18 hours ago, dpberr said: I don't have a problem with restraining someone who's tried opening an airplane door. I do have a problem with the tape over the mouth though. If the crew gets reprimanded for anything in this particular situation, it's going to be that detail. I think people who try to open doors mid-flight, charge the cockpit, and other let's crash the plane chicanery should face a mandatory jail sentence, mental health episode or not. If she is screaming and yelling I have no issue with that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Here is a direct quote from the union website. Again, not from me. "I happen to know the FO on this flight very very well 🙄 There is a lot more to the story that isn't being reported. This case in particular was much more a mental health situation than it was a simple ornery passenger from our Group Nine Flying Club. The FAs (#1 in particular) did an outstanding job." Just to explain how this stuff happens, after 9-11, law enforcement the FAA and industry reps got together to form policy/procedures to respond to various levels of passenger misconduct. As one climbs the bad behavior ladder, based on very specific behavior, stronger responses can occur. They don't have to, but they can. Very specific training is conducted on this issue. This lunatic lady did at least two things I'm aware of that cause her to be in the top category. If this woman wasn't restrained, it is quite likely something worse could have occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: The psychosis we see that seems more rampant nowadays, can we blame the weed and genetic predisposition? 😆 No. We can blame people who put their "personal freedom" ("maskholes" and the like) over the well-being of society as a whole, as well as people who think that watching a couple of YouTube videos constitutes "doing your own research." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 24 minutes ago, WhoTom said: No. We can blame people who put their "personal freedom" ("maskholes" and the like) over the well-being of society as a whole, as well as people who think that watching a couple of YouTube videos constitutes "doing your own research." I agree on second part. But as we start legalizing weed... We will find out for sure. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201601/does-marijuana-cause-psychosis Who knows if this even applies to her. YET, IMO.. It's being pushed under the rug. Not to go off topic... Or assume she was a cannabis user... But the question to be asked, is what's going on with the state of mental health today? "Putting all of this together, the authors concluded that “there is a strong body of epidemiologic evidence to support the view that regular or heavy cannabis use increases the risk of developing psychotic disorders….” While it seems to be more and more difficult to ignore these data, this increased risk needs to be understood in context. If the overall rate of schizophrenia in the population is about 1%, then these data suggest that the risk of psychosis, at least among more casual users, is still fairly low, like 1.5%. Given the potential of millions of new cannabis users, however, these numbers translate into many thousands of individuals with what can be quite disabling psychotic symptoms at a time when mental health and substance abuse treatment centers are already stretched extremely thin." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 13 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: So one CAN open the door without being a 2000 pound strongman. Just depressurize the cabin first... Or slowly start equalizing the pressure to free the mechanism/latch. Probably why they didn't want her working on that door. LoL... Never say it can't be done. 😉 What about lock gates on waterways? Can you expound on the possibilities for that? Asking for a friend @BringBackFergy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 23 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said: What about lock gates on waterways? Can you expound on the possibilities for that? Asking for a friend @BringBackFergy It depends on whether they're in a cannabis-induced psychotic state. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Seasons1992 said: What about lock gates on waterways? Can you expound on the possibilities for that? Asking for a friend @BringBackFergy You just opened Pandora's box, my good man. Here comes the three page explanation from Exiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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