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Voice of the Eagles Merrill Reese: the word is Bills are close to finalizing deal with Zach Ertz

YoloinOhio
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Hapless Bills Fan
Message added by Hapless Bills Fan,

There are certain topics that have been "done to death" here recently.  The horse is dead and has been thoroughly beaten and flayed. 

Everybody and his Cat have had more than enough chance to express their personal viewpoint - Over.  and Over.  And Over.  again. 

 

Every aspect of the situation has been discussed - several times.  Let me say that again:  EVERY ASPECT of the situation has been discussed, several times.

 

In theory, it should be fine, we should be able to talk about it.  In practice, people tend to lose their temper on these threads, start slinging insults back and forth.  Others get into General Political or Covid discussion, against Scott's pinned request (which is there for good reason). 

 

It makes work for the Mods who would rather be drinking beer and watching the 'maters grow, or napping.

 

If you're here long enough to start threads, you know to search before starting new topics, so if you don't already know there have been umpteen Beasley's Tweets and Ertz Trade threads that have all wound up locked for going "off the rails", you should be able to figure it out.

 

Start a new thread right after another has been locked, Be Very Careful - you take your chances on warnings/suspensions from Mods.

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Victory Formation Veteran

Victory Formation

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Posted
Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Two years including a bunch of time where was out injured or Covid and you're ready to move on.  Allen looked just as bad his  1st two years, probably worse as rookie than Knox looked.  Did you want to move on then to?

 

Amazes me the number of people who post on message board that can evaluate talent better than full time coaches and GM's!

Well, this is a forum where people discuss each other’s opinions.

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YoloinOhio
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Ertz has had more threads than an Egyptian cotton sheet set

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Royale with Cheese
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Live action shot of Patrick Mahomes after seeing this.  

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BillsShredder83 Veteran

BillsShredder83

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Hollister.

SB teams dont RELY on unproven skilled players to finally click.  if it happens great, we now have a better rotation.  the room for error between AFCCG and SB winner is so narrow!  GMs make the moves to put us over the top.  Hollister/Knox are in no way Gronk/Kelce mold players

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teef All Pro

teef

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2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


Who is the best Gene?  I’m going with Gene Wilder.  Johnny Depp was a disgusting Willy Wonka.

ya know...i think i completely agree with you on this.

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Royale with Cheese Hall of Famer

Royale with Cheese

Posted
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13 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Two years including a bunch of time where was out injured or Covid and you're ready to move on.  Allen looked just as bad his  1st two years, probably worse as rookie than Knox looked.  Did you want to move on then to?

 

Amazes me the number of people who post on message board that can evaluate talent better than full time coaches and GM's!


Josh Allen looked as bad first two years?

 

Well if this trade does go through, that means our coaching staff and GM don’t have confidence in Knox because they’re trading for a #1 tight end….which is the opinion of many of this board.

1 minute ago, teef said:

ya know...i think i completely agree with you on this.


Gene Hackman is my #2.

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BruceVilanch Veteran

BruceVilanch

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


Who is the best Gene?  I’m going with Gene Wilder.  Johnny Depp was a disgusting Willy Wonka.

Gene Simmons, I love me some KISS. I think we can all agree Wilder was the superior Wonka over Depp.

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Ed_Formerly_of_Roch All Pro

Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

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15 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Well, this is a forum where people discuss each other’s opinions.

 

Sure, If you want to say he's struggled, hasn't looked good, etc, that's fine, but when you say "time to move on" you're saying my opinion is I'm smarter than the coaches.

 

You very well may be right as more players fail than succeed overall, but if we were to move on from every player after 2 years who's struggled, we'd be back to being a bad team again

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Gugny Hall of Famer

Gugny

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:


Ill be honest, I can only name one KISS song and it was overplayed.

 

But you know the words to every Luke Bryan song, right?

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teef All Pro

teef

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Does that concern you on some level? 🤷‍♂️

on a number of levels...yes.

1 minute ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Gene Hackman would be my #2. But yeah, Wilder’s definitely #1. 

don't piggy back off my *****.

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Royale with Cheese Hall of Famer

Royale with Cheese

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Sure, If you want to say he's struggled, hasn't looked good, etc, that's fine, but when you say "time to move on" you're saying my opinion is I'm smarter than the coaches.

 

You very well may be right as more players fail than succeed overall, but if we were to move on from every player after 2 years who's struggled, we'd be back to being a bad team again


We moved on from Zay Jones after 2 years….did you view that as a mistake?

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Gugny Hall of Famer

Gugny

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:


I don’t even know who that is.  Does he have a fixer upper type show on HGTV?

 

Yes.  It's called, "Q.ueer Eye for the Georgia Guy."

 

Edited by Gugny
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Ed_Formerly_of_Roch All Pro

Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


Josh Allen looked as bad first two years?

 

Well if this trade does go through, that means our coaching staff and GM don’t have confidence in Knox because they’re trading for a #1 tight end….which is the opinion of many of this board.


Gene Hackman is my #2.

 

It certainly is a position they could improve on. To me it says we're bringing in another TE who's still likely pretty good, but is approaching the end of his career.  If Knox does show good improvement, keep him and let Ertz go in 1 to 2 years. If there's still no improvement this year from Knox, then agree time to move on.

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Victory Formation Veteran

Victory Formation

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Sure, If you want to say he's struggled, hasn't looked good, etc, that's fine, but when you say "time to move on" you're saying my opinion is I'm smarter than the coaches.

 

You very well may be right as more players fail than succeed overall, but if we were to move on from every player after 2 years who's struggled, we'd be back to being a bad team again

When I say move on, it could mean numerous things. We could trade for Zach Ertz, we could draft a TE next year, we could go after a free agent. Obviously he has a cheap contract, so that matters, but you tell me, what makes you think Dawson Knox is any good? Tell me, what are you seeing?

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teef All Pro

teef

Posted
Posted
Just now, Bobby Hooks said:

I think technically I’m piggy backing Royale. You wouldn’t know a good Gene unless it had Levi’s slapped on the pocket. 

there's playfulness, and then there's trying to hurt someone.  i think we know what you were going for here.

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Ed_Formerly_of_Roch All Pro

Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


We moved on from Zay Jones after 2 years….did you view that as a mistake?

 

Actually was about 1/3 of the way into his 3rd season when they traded him.  Plus wasn't there some issue that happened that prompted the sudden departure.  Gave up on a play or something

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Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

When I say move on, it could mean numerous things. We could trade for Zach Ertz, we could draft a TE next year, we could go after a free agent. Obviously he has a cheap contract, so that matters, but you tell me, what makes you think Dawson Knox is any good? Tell me, what are you seeing?

 

Knox has definitely shown some very impressive flashes. I think that would be hard to argue against. The question is can he play at that level consistently? I don’t know the answer, but I hope he can focus and the answer is yes. 

 

 

.

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Royale with Cheese Hall of Famer

Royale with Cheese

Posted
Posted
Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Actually was about 1/3 of the way into his 3rd season when they traded him.  Plus wasn't there some issue that happened that prompted the sudden departure.  Gave up on a play or something


I think it was simply he wasn’t getting anything done and unreliable.

 

Knox scares me because of his mental lapses.  

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Victory Formation Veteran

Victory Formation

Posted
Posted
Just now, Augie said:

 

Knox has definitely shown some impressive flashes. I think that would be hard to argue against. The question is can he play at that level consistently? I don’t know the answer, but I hope he can focus and the answer is yes. 

Oh, absolutely and I’m not necessarily saying we should cut him, that’s madness, but I’m also not advocating that we should wait for him to develop over the next 2-3 years while our Super Bowl window closes. TE is our biggest weakness, inject talent there and let the chips fall where they may.

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Shaw66 All Pro

Shaw66

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

When I say move on, it could mean numerous things. We could trade for Zach Ertz, we could draft a TE next year, we could go after a free agent. Obviously he has a cheap contract, so that matters, but you tell me, what makes you think Dawson Knox is any good? Tell me, what are you seeing?

1.  I think the Bills should get Ertz.  I think TE may be the only position in the starting lineup where the Bills don't have a truly good football player.

 

2.  I don't think that getting Ertz means they're moving on from Knox.  I think it means that the Bills think that by getting Ertz they may be able to put a truly good football player at that position this year.   The Bills also know, however, that by getting Ertz they could be getting Kelvin Benjamin.  

 

3.  As you say, there are a lot of ways the Bills might move on from Knox, but that way always will be about moving on after they have a reasonably long-term solution who is better.  That's not Ertz - he might be better, but it's not likely he's a reasonably long-term solution. 

 

4.  What I see in Ertz is good speed for a tight end, good but somewhat inconsistent hands, good attitude, willing blocker.  Players improve, and it's up to the Bills coaches to decide how much they think Knox might improve in areas where he is relatively weak.   If he doesn't show some serious improvement this year, I expect the Bills will be looking more aggressively for a better football player who can be a longer-term solution.  The Bills' model is that they don't want a revolving door at any position.  They don't want to be plugging in an Ertz every year.   Veteran acquisitions are to plug holes, not to build the roster.

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Ed_Formerly_of_Roch All Pro

Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

When I say move on, it could mean numerous things. We could trade for Zach Ertz, we could draft a TE next year, we could go after a free agent. Obviously he has a cheap contract, so that matters, but you tell me, what makes you think Dawson Knox is any good? Tell me, what are you seeing?

 

He has the physical skill set that only a handful of TE's in the league possess.  He also played in an offense in college that hardly used the TE so he's still very raw but to me you hate to give up on those skills.  Add in the injuries, Covid, I'd be very reluctant to give up on him now.

 

You say draft a TE next year.  Agree there, if there's little to no improvement this season from him, then wouldn't argue with moving on, but would like to see 3 full seasons prior.

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Ed_Formerly_of_Roch All Pro

Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

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7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:


I think it was simply he wasn’t getting anything done and unreliable.

 

Knox scares me because of his mental lapses.  

 

Agree with the mental part, but would want to give him one more full year.  He's really not had any TE's here to learn from that were good pass catching role models like what Etrz would bring and came from a college team that rarely used the TE when he was there.  If they had signed Olson last year, they would have had one there.

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Shaw66 All Pro

Shaw66

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7 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Oh, absolutely and I’m not necessarily saying we should cut him, that’s madness, but I’m also not advocating that we should wait for him to develop over the next 2-3 years while our Super Bowl window closes. TE is our biggest weakness, inject talent there and let the chips fall where they may.

The dreaded Super Bowl window.   You can analyze team building in terms of the Super Bowl window all you want, but McBeane have been abundantly clear that they are not - I repeat they ARE NOT - operating on that assumption.   They're operating on the intention that the team will get better, year over year, for a decade.  

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Victory Formation

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1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

He has the physical skill set that only a handful of TE's in the league possess.  He also played in an offense in college that hardly used the TE so he's still very raw but to me you hate to give up on those skills.  Add in the injuries, Covid, I'd be very reluctant to give up on him now.

 

You say draft a TE next year.  Agree there, if there's little to no improvement this season from him, then wouldn't argue with moving on, but would like to see 3 full seasons prior.

Yup, but where did I say cut him? I’m essentially saying that we need to upgrade the position and by the looks of it our FO agrees. Certainly he can beat out Hollister, but not somebody like Ertz. You say that I think I know more than our FO, but ultimately my opinion reflects their approach like a mirror. If anything, your faith in Knox seems to be antagonistic towards what Beane and McD are doing. Did we not go after Hunter Henry as well? And now Ertz?

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

The dreaded Super Bowl window.   You can analyze team building in terms of the Super Bowl window all you want, but McBeane have been abundantly clear that they are not - I repeat they ARE NOT - operating on that assumption.   They're operating on the intention that the team will get better, year over year, for a decade.  

Once again, my opinion is essentially echoing what they’re doing. They went after Hunter Henry and now Ertz, they clearly think we’re soft at TE. If anything, you’re the one going against the grain, by all means.

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Shaw66 All Pro

Shaw66

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9 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

 

Once again, my opinion is essentially echoing what they’re doing. They went after Hunter Henry and now Ertz, they clearly think we’re soft at TE. If anything, you’re the one going against the grain, by all means.

Oh, I agree completely that they want a better tight end.  As I said, I think it's maybe the only position on the field where McBeane feel they have a problem.    I'm just saying that I expect they think that Knox still might be the long-term answer, that Ertz would only be a short-term solution, and that McBeane do not feel any urgency because the so-called Super Bowl window may be closing.  They don't believe in a Super Bowl window.

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