TBBills Fan Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Putin said: Well I was looking at the top 25 DT list and guess who’s NOT on it , need a clue ? Fred Smerlas? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, BigDingus said: If he doesn't replicate Aaron Donald numbers this year, he's a bust! Or not... He's already pretty solid. Any improvement will be nice, but he's done well. Levi Wallace is solid (UDFA) with any improvement would be nice , BUT a 1st round pick especially a top 10 pick should/ has to be a difference maker regardless of the position , we’ve invested so much $ and draft capital on this defense we have some of the best defensive mind coaches, this defense needs to be dominant, solid is not good enough , Edited June 21, 2021 by Putin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said: Fred Smerlas? Niet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Fan Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Putin said: Niet National Institute for Excellence in Teaching? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, TBBills Fan said: National Institute for Excellence in Teaching? Awesome !!! But still Niet Edited June 21, 2021 by Putin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Fan Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Putin said: Awesome !!! But still Niet oh "No or "not" so I was right, smerlas isnt top 25! BOOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: They've been saying this about Oliver since college. At some point we just have to say he is what he is. Well, he was drafted in 2018. This is his third year in the NFL. They say to never judge a draft till at least three years later. Oliver played at 285 last year, I think he belongs at 300-305. He is built a lot like Kyle Williams IMO. He is a bit undersized, but once again, he was playing a lot of nose, which is incredible for a guy that’s so light. If you want to argue and say he isn’t a great NT, I agree with you, but in my mind, you can’t argue that Oliver could be a very good 3T if he was allowed to attack. Also, you can’t argue that Oliver would not be good in run support if he didn’t have to eat two blockers. Is he Pat Williams? No, but he is good enough for what Buffalo wants to do, which is to build a DL that can kill your QB. By all means, put Star in at RDT and Oliver in at LDT in obvious running situations, but by and large for the most part Oliver will be at RDT most of the time because this is a passing league and our DL is designed to hunt QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Simon said: He already has. He was the best player on the Bills defensive front last year and it wasn't really close. Still, having to play a lot of 1 tech limited the things he could do to be disruptive. If Star and Harrison can share most of the 1 tech work, it will free Oliver to do the kind of stuff that generates more stats and attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Putin said: Just hypothetically if we were to trade Oliver what could we get for him ?? Hypothetically thinking? not going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Hypothetically thinking? not going to happen That’s ok it’s not for everyone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Putin said: That’s ok it’s not for everyone lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 hours ago, H2o said: If Ed is playing his natural 3-Tech position this year, and we are getting solid 1-Tech play from Star or Harry, then I am expecting anywhere between 10-14 sacks and 10 more tfl's to go along with it. I think last year's experience will help him even more so because of the fact he faced those double teams for a majority of the season while playing out of position. If you can take on and get wins against two 300lb+ starting OL'man, then going against one is gonna be like you gave a fat kid a box of Ho Hos. Ed's gonna eat. Ed Oliver was both double teamed and playing a different position the majority of the time last season? Say what? The tales are getting taller with each passing week of the offseason.😂 He took "a few" snaps at 1 tech but once they decided on the Phillips/Butler rotation around mid-season those guys played the majority of the 1 tech snaps and that was where the majority of the doubles were going. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 10 hours ago, NewEra said: Poyer wasn’t even close? Ehhhhhhh. 10 hours ago, NewEra said: Lol…..my bad. Even so..Poyer? nah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Even so..Poyer? nah... Poyer “wasn’t even close” to as good as Ed Oliver last year? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: Poyer “wasn’t even close” to as good as Ed Oliver last year? Please. imo, Poyer was probably the best player on the Bills defense last year. And that's coming from a guy who had never been very high on him previously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 6 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: Hypothetically thinking? not going to happen Do you think Ed is worth 15M a year based on his play so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Just now, Simon said: imo, he was probably the best player on the Bills defense. Who Ed? He might have been. I love Ed…..but if someone is contending that Jordan Poyers play wasn’t even close to that of Ed last year, I’d say person doesn’t know what they’re watching. Poyer was very good last season and worthy of a pro bowl selection. Many feel he was robbed. I didn’t hear one person say Ed should’ve made the pro bowl. Calais Campbell…..a 3-4 DE that played in 12 games and had 4 sacks made it over him. I didn’t feel he was robbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 minute ago, NewEra said: Who Ed? He might have been. I love Ed…..but if someone is contending that Jordan Poyers play wasn’t even close to that of Ed last year, I’d say person doesn’t know what they’re watching. Poyer was very good last season and worthy of a pro bowl selection. Many feel he was robbed. I didn’t hear one person say Ed should’ve made the pro bowl. Calais Campbell…..a 3-4 DE that played in 12 games and had 4 sacks made it over him. I didn’t feel he was robbed. I edited and added to the original post, but I meant I thought Poyer was the best player on the Bills D last year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Simon said: I edited and added to the original post, but I meant I thought Poyer was the best player on the Bills D last year. Gotcha…..sorry I misunderstood. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 I said this last year also. If he doesn’t have a big year this year, then the big question is why. He has the talent and now he had the big man back and a plethera of ends to mix in a pass rush. There are no excuses this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 he's been ok, but more than anything we need some super star play makers on D. one of our DEs needs to work out, one of our LBs, and ill stick w tre at CB. if oliver does as well, we then start to have the nucleus of a championship team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 19 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said: I'm not an Ed Oliver fan. He just doesn't make enough plays for a 9th overall pick. If he develops this year, I'll be more than happy to be wrong. This frame of reference is key to how EO is viewed. The Bills drafted him so I don’t know how him being the 9th overall selection isn’t factored in. I was hoping he’d fall to us in that draft and I was elated that he did and that we selected him. He had a pretty average rookie year at 3T and a below average 2020 at 1T. Average play in his rookie year is understandable and I get that he was playing out of position a lot due to need last season so he can get a bit of a pass. But in year three and playing his natural position he’s got to start playing at an above average (or better) level. Let’s see how he does. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weatherman Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 21 hours ago, Simon said: He already has. He was the best player on the Bills defensive front last year and it wasn't really close. That’s not really saying much. Other than Hughes and Oliver no one else was starting material. This was the Bills achilles heel last year…zero QB pressure and couldn’t stop the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Star is back. He's a traditional 1T DT so Oliver should be able to play a traditional 3T DT. The 3T is supposed to be a disruptive play-maker. Hopefully Oliver can do that this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 17 hours ago, NewEra said: Do you think Ed is worth 15M a year based on his play so far? great question and it is hard to say.. Ed Oliver was playing out of position all year last year. This is a make it or break it year for him and unless the team giving us a really good pick/player and picking up on cap loss... I can not see a trade happening. Easy answer is No.. Hard answer is.... To be continued. This is not a black and white question, yet it is a very good one to ask. Lots of shades of Gray going on here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: great question and it is hard to say.. Ed Oliver was playing out of position all year last year. This is a make it or break it year for him and unless the team giving us a really good pick/player and picking up on cap loss... I can not see a trade happening. Easy answer is No.. Hard answer is.... To be continued. This is not a black and white question, yet it is a very good one to ask. Lots of shades of Gray going on here. I don’t think he was playing out of position in the 2nd half of the season. I agree that he was during the first half of the year. I’m a huge fan of Ed, but unless he “breaks out” this year and starts getting more pressure on the QB, I think he’s out the door when his contract is up. I don’t think he’s worth it considering how he impacts the game. Don’t get me wrong, he impacts the game, but unless he gets under 10M a year, I don’t think he stays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 16 hours ago, Locomark said: I said this last year also. If he doesn’t have a big year this year, then the big question is why. He has the talent and now he had the big man back and a plethera of ends to mix in a pass rush. There are no excuses this year. What excuses ?? Most on here believe that Ed is already a great player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 25 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: great question and it is hard to say.. Ed Oliver was playing out of position all year last year. This is a make it or break it year for him and unless the team giving us a really good pick/player and picking up on cap loss... I can not see a trade happening. Easy answer is No.. Hard answer is.... To be continued. This is not a black and white question, yet it is a very good one to ask. Lots of shades of Gray going on here. I keep hearing that Ed played out position last year and that is a complete BS , he barely played 30 snaps the entire season at 1 tech 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, Putin said: I keep hearing that Ed played out position last year and that is a complete BS , he barely played 30 snaps the entire season at 1 tech He had nobody to play alongside him, so who do you think teams double teamed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Like with most of these debates, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Ed Oliver is not a bust, and he has had flashes and stretches of good to great play spread throughout his first two seasons. On the other hand, he has not (yet) been what the Bills clearly felt he could be when he “fell to them” at 9. They drafted him to be a game wrecker. Coming out, there were John Randle and Aaron Donald comparisons. He has been nowhere close to that level up to this point. So everyone’s a little right and a little wrong. He’s not some huge disappointment. He’s also not — to use McDermott’s parlance — affecting the quarterback consistently enough. He’s not converting his pressures into sacks often enough. It seems quite fair to me to say that this is a huge year for Oliver. The 5th year option will be coming up in no time, and he needs to show definitively that he is worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 42 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: He had nobody to play alongside him, so who do you think teams double teamed? If you’re a good player / DT you will be facing a lot of double teams , and you still have to find a way to make plays , hopefully this year will get more production form our DE’s so Ed will face less double teams and have a bigger impact on the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, Putin said: If you’re a good player / DT you will be facing a lot of double teams , and you still have to find a way to make plays , hopefully this year will get more production form our DE’s so Ed will face less double teams and have a bigger impact on the game Well, what is the job of a NT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Victory Formation said: Well, what is the job of a NT? I don’t know we don’t really have a NT Edited June 23, 2021 by Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, NewEra said: I don’t think he was playing out of position in the 2nd half of the season. I agree that he was during the first half of the year. I’m a huge fan of Ed, but unless he “breaks out” this year and starts getting more pressure on the QB, I think he’s out the door when his contract is up. I don’t think he’s worth it considering how he impacts the game. Don’t get me wrong, he impacts the game, but unless he gets under 10M a year, I don’t think he stays. Cover 1 did a big thing on this and I cant find it.. BUT that being said, I am darn sure he played out of position most of the year,,, now.. here is a question for you... Does playing out of position even for 8 games stunt the growth of a player. Pro or not... you have to think it messes with the brain a little. 6 hours ago, Putin said: I keep hearing that Ed played out position last year and that is a complete BS , he barely played 30 snaps the entire season at 1 tech where do you get your information on this matter? thats the KC game alone... I think your wrong. And .. This was the KC game in regular season so... I want more on where you getting your less then 30 snap info at one tech bs?\\\ Edited. I keep coming up with proof that Oliver did play out of position the whole season This was the Seahawks game https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/11/19/21572566/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-defensive-tackle-ed-oliver Edited June 23, 2021 by PrimeTime101 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Cover 1 did a big thing on this and I cant find it.. BUT that being said, I am darn sure he played out of position most of the year,,, now.. here is a question for you... Does playing out of position even for 8 games stunt the growth of a player. Pro or not... you have to think it messes with the brain a little. where do you get your information on this matter? Joe Marino on locked on Bills I’m not sure if it was in today’s or yesterday podcast, he brought up Ed’s total amount of snaps for the entire season , you should check out his podcast I listen to him every morning on the way to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, Putin said: Joe Marino on locked on Bills I’m not sure if it was in today’s or yesterday podcast, he brought up Ed’s total amount of snaps for the entire season , you should check out his podcast I listen to him every morning on the way to work you should check my edited post. proof it was way more then 30 snaps.. I listened and he is WRONG.. Look at the link I posted JUST against the KC regular season game and read through the Seahawk game. 50 snaps just between the 2 games alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/21/2021 at 2:55 PM, Putin said: Levi Wallace is solid (UDFA) with any improvement would be nice , BUT a 1st round pick especially a top 10 pick should/ has to be a difference maker regardless of the position , we’ve invested so much $ and draft capital on this defense we have some of the best defensive mind coaches, this defense needs to be dominant, solid is not good enough , I understand that's what we WANT from him, but he doesn't choose where he's drafted. If he's not dominant & is simply just a good d-linemen, you don't just cut them or claim they're a bust after 2 years. You continue building & developing into a stronger D. Josh was an even higher pick with even more $ & draft capital invested in him. He wasn't dominant in his first 2 seasons, not even close. But did he develop & continue to improve? Absolutely. Not Oliver's fault he's only better than everyone else on the line (with the possible exception of Hughes). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/21/2021 at 1:36 PM, Simon said: At the risk of insulting usually reasonable people, his detractors have no clue what the hell they're actually looking at By the same token...........the people who claim he played a lot of 1 tech ("out of position") last season have no clue what the hell they were actually looking at either. And that is a rather large contingent of people, which is sad to say in this era of all-22. The Bills did a lot of experimenting early in the season where they were rotating all the DT's in and out of 1 tech. That KC game was just a weird all-in-on pass rush gameplan that blew up on them when Reid ran it down their throats.........but the last 9-10 games they played(including playoffs) Phillips and Butler were the established 1 techs and consistently drew double teams, as the 1 tech is aligned strategically to do. Nobody on the line stood out for exceptional play last year though...........it was a developmental year without an offseason for young DL Oliver, Epenesa and Johnson and Phillips was just working his way back. The free agents all underwhelmed. I expect a significant improvement from all the young DL this season even if Rousseau and Basham are just the 2021 version of the 2020 Epenesa and Johnson of this year's DL. Oliver was very solid but obviously has a couple more levels that he can reach. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 If Oliver truly reaches his potential as a top 10 pick this defense as a whole becomes so much better. I'm still concerned with his size though and he may need a 'thick thighed' large body type next to him to truly flourish which we still don't have on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 6/22/2021 at 9:11 PM, Putin said: I don’t know we don’t really have a NT If he’s receiving double teams all the time, what does it matter where he’s lined up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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