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Logan Thomas - a success or a miss?


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After seeing Logan Thomas break out with the WFT, my initial thought was how did the staff miss his future development having him in Buffalo for two years.  It's not as if there was a superstar TE that got 90% of the reps.  Of course it reminds you of the Wyatt Teller story as well.  I then decided to put a different spin on it.  Maybe the Bills' staff is the reason he has progressed.  Maybe they deserve a lot of the credit.  Maybe they can do the same with Knox and Sweeney,  

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I think these were two very big misses.  It is a weakness of Dabol's, I think, to not evaluate talent effectively.  The playing of Gore so much, rather than Singletary or Yeldon two years ago, is anot

Are we doing this again? It’s not as if Thomas broke out immediately after leaving Buffalo.    The kid bounced around the league for several years and even had a an unimpressive year in Detroit

What the heck are you even talking about with this.  Yeah Dabol struggles to evaluate talent - that is just ridiculous.   First go through with Thomas - which this will be like the third or

I think these were two very big misses.  It is a weakness of Dabol's, I think, to not evaluate talent effectively.  The playing of Gore so much, rather than Singletary or Yeldon two years ago, is another good example of this, in my opinion. 

 

I was enthusiastic about Teller and was very surprised when they traded him.

 

Last year, two of the Bills biggest weaknesses were at the tight end and guard positions, and aspects of the game affected by those two positions.  Teller is one of the best run blockers in the NFL and he is just getting started. Thomas had 670 yards and 6 touchdowns, (wow; how helpful would it have been to have that kind of production from a tight end last year?) How much better would the Bills running game have been last year with Teller as guard?

 

I think the Bills were much more likely to win it all last year with Teller and Thomas. They would have provided a better running game, a high quality tight end for Allen to unload it to (and for the defense to worry about), and both of these things would have helped to diminish that dominating pass rush by the Chiefs.

 

Now, the Bills still need to eliminate these weak areas, a year later, as they clearly have not yet, when they likely had the two guys they needed all along.

 

Big and very important misses, in my view.

 

Edited by Mister Defense
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Logan Thomas was a miss, but to be fair, he didn't do much in DET in 2019, yet somehow exploded last year on the WTF's.  His last year here, we had Chucky Clay, Boy Toy (Jason Croom), and Khari Lee (there's a bar bet, up there with Tim Euhus and Tony Cline).  Hard to fault McBeane if Logan couldn't beat out those guys for the starting spot.  Good for Logan Thomas on his success last year, more power to him.

 

Wyatt Teller is a head scratcher.  Vlad "The Impaler" Ducasse and John Miller were the definition of mediocre to bad.  Vlad clearly had compromising pictures of McBeane, because he wasn't good at guard.  Teller looked good in limited action, but we shipped him to CLE, for draft picks that became Stefon "They call me Mr." Diggs, so Teller is indirectly responsible for us landing Diggs (as is Marcell Dareus, since we picked Teller with the pick we got from the Jagoffs).  I'd say we got the better of that deal, so I'll let McBeane slide on that.

 

Projecting football talent into the future is a black art.  The Bills missed out on two players here, but Logan Thomas did not show it when he was here, and Teller wasn't here long enough to show it.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

a high quality tight end for Allen to unload it to

    I think the fact that Allen Doesn’t dump it off shouldn’t be discounted.

    Not saying he isn’t better than Onox but I’m not sure he gets 600 playing for us last year. I assume a ton of those receptions were short yardage completions in a conservative ball control offense.

    Others have stated it but Josh needs to learn to take the dump off . 

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Sometimes a player just needs a change of scenery and more time to develop. It's pretty rare for a guy to have a breakout season in his 7th season. He came into the league as a quarterback and TE is a position that requires more development time in the NFL even for a guy who played the position in high school and college. With no developmental league (RIP NFL Europe) few teams have the patience to keep a guy on the roster for that long before they become an effective starter. I think his story is more of a fluke than a sign of failure by our front office. Another similar case I can think of is Lorenzo Alexander breaking out with a double-digit sack season in his 11th season in the league (the average NFL career is 2.5 years). The NFL is a win-now league and practice squad players can be poached by other teams, so developmental players are no longer worth the investment considering they will be a free agent after 4 seasons.

Edited by Allen2Diggs
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There have been plenty of guys over the years that have put up good stats in one season because that team had no one else and they just got lots of reps. Let’s wait to see if he does it a few more years before calling Logan Thomas the missing piece of a championship. 

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There are so many variables in these player decisions that we are not privy to. Perhaps they didn’t mesh well with others. Perhaps they needed additional picks for a future trade we had no idea was going to take place. 
 

I totally get the topic but all we can do is guess in reality. We don’t have the entire picture and we never will, more than likely. 
 

With that being said, I don’t buy the Daboll can’t assess talent argument. It doesn’t stand to reason, in my opinion, given the success he’s had here. 

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I suppose to some degree. Happy for Thomas, but the guy had 110 targets last year to get that production. For comparison, Diggs had 166. Thomas was never getting those targets here.
 

Teller on the other hand I’m bummed they traded. I get why Beane did it at the time, but it would’ve been great to have him here.  

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23 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

I think these were two very big misses.  It is a weakness of Dabol's, I think, to not evaluate talent effectively.  The playing of Gore so much, rather than Singletary or Yeldon two years ago, is another good example of this, in my opinion. 

 

I was enthusiastic about Teller and was very surprised when they traded him.

 

Last year, two of the Bills biggest weaknesses were at the tight end and guard positions, and aspects of the game affected by those two positions.  Teller is one of the best run blockers in the NFL and he is just getting started. Thomas had 670 yards and 6 touchdowns, (wow; how helpful would it have been to have that kind of production from a tight end last year?) How much better would the Bills running game have been last year with Teller as guard?

 

I think the Bills were much more likely to win it all last year with Teller and Thomas. They would have provided a better running game, a high quality tight end for Allen to unload it to (and for the defense to worry about), and both of these things would have helped to diminish that dominating pass rush by the Chiefs.

 

Now, the Bills still need to eliminate these weak areas, a year later, as they clearly have not yet, when they likely had the two guys they needed all along.

 

Big and very important misses, in my view.

 


 

What the heck are you even talking about with this.  Yeah Dabol struggles to evaluate talent - that is just ridiculous.

 

First go through with Thomas - which this will be like the third or fourth thread about him - what makes you think anything he did in Washington would have translated to Buffalo.  The Bills spent multiple years teaching him the TE position and recognized he was not a TE that was going to develop into the style of TE they wanted.  
 

Do you really think the Bills in that offense last year with Diggs, Beasley, Brown (when healthy), McKenzie, and Davis target Thomas 110 times - nope - not a chance.  More than likely if even making the team (which I doubt) he would get similar to the 60 targets that Kroft and Knox got.  If you look at the combined stats for Knox and Kroft - they averaged better Y/R than Thomas, similar catch %, and same number of TDs.  The difference was in the targets Thomas saw twice as many throws because Smith uses the TEs more than Allen does typically and Washington had significantly less talent at WR - therefore needing to use the TE more. 
 

Thomas on the Bills (same issue I have with Ertz) just does not move anything because without huge (WR type) targets of 90-120 targets - their numbers are right in line with Knox/Kroft from the last 2 years.  You want to compare Thomas to someone on the Bills - the position/player you are comparing is Beasley and Beasley blew Thomas out of the water.  Thomas on the Bills would be an even poorer blocker than Knox was and they would not have lined him out wide because they used the TE as an addition Blitz pick-up to give Allen more time.

 

Teller has been discussed over and over and it is just a stupid argument.  But the part that really gets me is this great run blocker.  Do people honestly believe on a pass first team that Teller (pass blocking is a huge weakness of his) even makes the Bills OL.  Then for the argument that Thomas and Teller would of made the difference in the AFCCG - you know what would of made a difference having any of our 3 top guards fully healthy, or any of our top 4 WRs healthy.  Teller and a random run game makes nearly no difference for a pass first team and Tellers struggles in the passing game meant when we were behind - he was more likely to be a problem than a solution.

 

Look I get it sometimes good players move on and shine and get better.  In this case neither player got better the after the Bills moved on - both players stunk in 2019 after the Bills moved on.  They both fell into ideal situations that came about last year.  Neither player after their 2018 seasons in Buffalo deserved to be here and neither player based upon their 2019 performance would have made last years roster.  Wish them luck and move on - it is ok to do that and recognize fit means a lot for players.

 

🤦‍♂️

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Gotta remember that the TE position on our team is the fourth or fifth passing option the vast majority of the time, and with the likes of Mckittrick  and Davis both scoring 7 TDs each its not that big of a deal, would it be nice if our #1 TE scored more? Yup, but there are only so many passing targets available per game/season, who are we going to take targets away from to get the TE more passes?  That and Joshes former college TE teammate is a much better pass catcher than Knox, and will likely take a bunch of targets away from Knox as the season progresses. So the answer to your concern may already be on the team... also just look at all the pass catching options on this team, I’m thinking it’s truly not the issue that fans want it to be,

 

Go Bills!!!

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Are we doing this again? It’s not as if Thomas broke out immediately after leaving Buffalo. 
 

The kid bounced around the league for several years and even had a an unimpressive year in Detroit after leaving here. 
 

It is what it is. He gets a ton of targets in Washington, which he wouldn’t get here. Time to move on.

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Depends if you are a half full, half empty type of person.  Some even use dribble glasses to skew the odds.

Logan showed promise but there were other players who showed promise.

Unfortunately unlike the Nostradammmits it is impossible to see in the future.

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These things go both ways.

 

Logan Thomas and Wyatt Teller didn’t do squat here and then broke out elsewhere.

 

On the other hand, current Bills Jerry Hughes, Daryl Williams, Jordan Poyer, and Micah Hyde are all quite good and were all either traded or allowed by their previous teams to walk in Free Agency.

 

Scheme fit, depth chart, opportunity, chemistry...there are a lot of variables that factor into a player’s success or failure with a given team. Painting in broad strokes on this issue is ill-advised.

Edited by Logic
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1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

After seeing Logan Thomas break out with the WFT, my initial thought was how did the staff miss his future development having him in Buffalo for two years.  It's not as if there was a superstar TE that got 90% of the reps.  Of course it reminds you of the Wyatt Teller story as well.  I then decided to put a different spin on it.  Maybe the Bills' staff is the reason he has progressed.  Maybe they deserve a lot of the credit.  Maybe they can do the same with Knox and Sweeney,  


Logan Thomas fully credits the Bills with developing him into a TE. I will find the article where I read this— but he pretty much admits he was totally lost at TE, but the Bills laid the foundation for him. 
 

I just suspect the Bills couldn’t wait around for him forever to break through. 
 

edit: here is the article—-

 

Thomas caught 19 passes in two seasons with the Bills, 2017 and '18, and had 16 catches with the Lions in 2019 before his breakout season with Washington. He said the help he got in Buffalo from tight ends coach Rob Boras, tight ends Charles Clay, Nick O’Leary and Khari Lee, and defensive end Jerry Hughes was invaluable and a big reason he was able to make progress.

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-jaguars/post/_/id/29245/logan-thomas-an-example-for-tim-tebow-in-transition-to-tight-end-for-jaguars

 

 

Edited by Miyagi-Do Karate
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1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

After seeing Logan Thomas break out with the WFT, my initial thought was how did the staff miss his future development having him in Buffalo for two years.  It's not as if there was a superstar TE that got 90% of the reps.  Of course it reminds you of the Wyatt Teller story as well.  I then decided to put a different spin on it.  Maybe the Bills' staff is the reason he has progressed.  Maybe they deserve a lot of the credit.  Maybe they can do the same with Knox and Sweeney,  


maybe not every player needs a narrative created out of thin air?


I get it. We all do a lot of it but if you can look at the same story and write it several drastically different ways, maybe it’s best to leave it at “good for that guy for succeeding”

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14 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

After seeing Logan Thomas break out with the WFT, my initial thought was how did the staff miss his future development having him in Buffalo for two years.  It's not as if there was a superstar TE that got 90% of the reps.  Of course it reminds you of the Wyatt Teller story as well.  I then decided to put a different spin on it.  Maybe the Bills' staff is the reason he has progressed.  Maybe they deserve a lot of the credit.  Maybe they can do the same with Knox and Sweeney,  

 

I mean, he didn't look so great in Detroit in 2019 either.  But maybe Matt Patricia developed him?

 

Some guys do take a while to develop. 

 

On the other hand, Washington did not exactly have a plethora of receiving options last year - Terry McLaurin and ?Who?

 

Logan Thomas, that's who.

 

Question remains as to what Thomas would have contributed on a team with 4 receiving options ahead of him, or on a team with a better passing attack.  Washington was #9 for passing attempts and #25 for passing yards.

 

 

 

 

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Teller did get better as a run blocker but was nothing special as a pass protector.  Coaches made an assessment based on their exposure to him.  Since I didn't see him in practices, it is difficult for me to say that they made a bad decision.  Maybe a trade served as a wake-up call to tell him that his current effort had put him on a path to be out of football.  Fear can be a serious motivator.

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