Daunte Wright Shooting

[TSOL]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Just added some other points to my previous response thru an edit. Read it if you wish. Your statement has zero basis in reality, the numbers don’t back it up in any way. You’ve fallen victim to radical hyperbolic sensationalists. Or you’ve listened to “ sympathy for the devil” too many times in a row. 

 

 

How do you suppose all this heroine and illegal guns get into our country in the first place? 

 

You're aware of our long standing "guns for dope" program in afghanistan right? 

 

I'll look for a link for you 

 

Go ahead and laugh that off and show everybody your naivete 

Edited April 15, 2021 by TSOL

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

She was clearly suffering from some form of mental illness that drove her to climb through a broken window into the inner Capitol chamber while federal agents pointed guns at her ordering her not to come through... And that's how ti works, right? Police don't kill people, people kill themselves?

 

 

So by the same token anyone who is confronted by the police, ignores orders and acts threateningly has mental illness?  And that is the cause of his/her death?

Edited April 15, 2021 by Doc

[Motorin']

43 minutes ago, Doc said:

So by the same token anyone who is confronted by the police, ignores orders and acts threateningly has mental illness?  And that is the cause of his/her death?

 

I'm pretty sure that mental illness and/or emotional instability was a driving factor that motivated many of the people who stormed the Capitol. As it probably was with many of the people who burned buildings to the ground during the BLM protests.

 

I went on to clarify that no, I don't believe mental illness was the cause of death.

 

While a bullet to the chest is quicker and clearer than a knee to the neck, it is a similarly absurd argument as saying the cause of death in George Floyd's case was his pre-exisitng heart condition and substance abuse and not the knee to his neck for almost 10 mins. 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Motorin'

[Unforgiven]

8 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I'm pretty sure that mental illness and/or emotional instability was a driving factor that motivated many of the people who stormed the Capitol. As it probably was with many of the people who burned buildings to the ground during the BLM protests.

 

I went on to clarify that no, I don't believe mental illness was the cause of death.

 

While a bullet to the chest is quicker and clearer than a knee to the neck, it is a similarly absurd argument as saying the cause of death in George Floyd's case was his pre-exisitng heart condition and substance abuse and not the knee to his neck for almost 10 mins. 

 

 

It's not absurd at all. Opioid abuse is not considered an epidemic for the f*&^ of it.

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

It's not absurd at all. Opioid abuse is not considered an epidemic for the f*&^ of it.

 

You have to be sadistic to buy that argument. 

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

I'm pretty sure that mental illness and/or emotional instability was a driving factor that motivated many of the people who stormed the Capitol. As it probably was with many of the people who burned buildings to the ground during the BLM protests.

 

I went on to clarify that no, I don't believe mental illness was the cause of death.

 

While a bullet to the chest is quicker and clearer than a knee to the neck, it is a similarly absurd argument as saying the cause of death in George Floyd's case was his pre-exisitng heart condition and substance abuse and not the knee to his neck for almost 10 mins. 

OK. Do you think that George Floyd or Daunte Wright were suffering from mental illness?

Edited April 15, 2021 by Doc

[Capco]

Sorry if this has been said, but one thing to consider is the following.  

When cops pull out their taser, they pull the trigger once.  It's a one-use device until reloaded.  

When cops pull out their handgun, they pull the trigger multiple times.  It's part of their training to shoot until the suspect is down.  In some cases, they can't even recall how many times they fired because of the adrenaline of the moment.  

To the best of my knowledge, this officer fired a single shot.  That supports the notion that she believed she was pulling out her taser.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, Capco said:

Sorry if this has been said, but one thing to consider is the following.  

When cops pull out their taser, they pull the trigger once.  It's a one-use device until reloaded.  

When cops pull out their handgun, they pull the trigger multiple times.  It's part of their training to shoot until the suspect is down.  In some cases, they can't even recall how many times they fired because of the adrenaline of the moment.  

To the best of my knowledge, this officer fired a single shot.  That supports the notion that she believed she was pulling out her taser.  

If you listen to the video, if she really didn’t believe that was a taser in her hand, she did one heck of an acting job. 

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, Capco said:

Sorry if this has been said, but one thing to consider is the following.  

When cops pull out their taser, they pull the trigger once.  It's a one-use device until reloaded.  

When cops pull out their handgun, they pull the trigger multiple times.  It's part of their training to shoot until the suspect is down.  In some cases, they can't even recall how many times they fired because of the adrenaline of the moment.  

To the best of my knowledge, this officer fired a single shot.  That supports the notion that she believed she was pulling out her taser.  

The fact that she says “taser” three times and then says “oh ***** I shot him” afterwards also suggest that.

 

But I still have no idea how she mistook her gun for her Taser.

[Motorin']

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

The fact that she says “taser” three times and then says “oh ***** I shot him” afterwards also suggest that.

 

But I still have no idea how she mistook her gun for her Taser.

 

I think attention to detail has slipped drastically as a result of pandemic mush brain and way too much screen time. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

The fact that she says “taser” three times and then says “oh ***** I shot him” afterwards also suggest that.

 

But I still have no idea how she mistook her gun for her Taser.

Is there even a debate about this? Why did we spend all of this money on police body cams if we aren't going to look at the video or listen to the audio? 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

14 hours ago, Capco said:

Sorry if this has been said, but one thing to consider is the following.  

When cops pull out their taser, they pull the trigger once.  It's a one-use device until reloaded.  

When cops pull out their handgun, they pull the trigger multiple times.  It's part of their training to shoot until the suspect is down.  In some cases, they can't even recall how many times they fired because of the adrenaline of the moment.  

To the best of my knowledge, this officer fired a single shot.  That supports the notion that she believed she was pulling out her taser.  

Interesting point. 
 

I’ve struggled with the argument that the officer targeted this young man for assassination with two other police officers, one of whom is a trainee, and set it up to look like she was grabbing a taser when she knew he was going to run.  Part of it is the incredible amount of planning it would take in the short period of time from when they encountered his vehicle to the shooting.  Part of it is the video evidence, from body cameras that are worn by the officers to help clarify these often tragic interactions.  
 

Then again, maybe they all just watched Denzel in “Training Day” and it was just a matter of time. 

[oldmanfan]

This incident defines the word tragedy.   To the larger issue, there is simply no trust on either side anymore.  The black community has no trust in the police; they feel they are at risk every time they encounter a policeman.  And the police have no trust that they won't get ambushed.  I don't know how you get trust back.

[Tiberius]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2707422/geraldo-rivera-fights-dan-bongino-daunte-wright-minnesota/ Anger on Fox News 

[Orlando Tim]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This incident defines the word tragedy.   To the larger issue, there is simply no trust on either side anymore.  The black community has no trust in the police; they feel they are at risk every time they encounter a policeman.  And the police have no trust that they won't get ambushed.  I don't know how you get trust back.

Two things that will help:

1) general public needs to stop thinking of cops as mediators or anything other than person who is there to finish a situation.

2) police need to be more active in the communities they represent. 

 

IMO a little distrust is ok, I don't trust cops unless I know them personally. People can video tape everything now and I will be video taping any interaction with cops I have and I have told my kids the same. I have also told my kids to do as cop says and I will sue later if cop is wrong. 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Two things that will help:

1) general public needs to stop thinking of cops as mediators or anything other than person who is there to finish a situation.

2) police need to be more active in the communities they represent. 

 

IMO a little distrust is ok, I don't trust cops unless I know them personally. People can video tape everything now and I will be video taping any interaction with cops I have and I have told my kids the same. I have also told my kids to do as cop says and I will sue later if cop is wrong. 

 

 

Or....how about when the police officer tells you to do something...YOU DO IT! The most recent and most highly publicized incidents all include a single common denominator, the person interacting with the police is not following the officers’ reasonable commands. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

52 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This incident defines the word tragedy.   To the larger issue, there is simply no trust on either side anymore.  The black community has no trust in the police; they feel they are at risk every time they encounter a policeman.  And the police have no trust that they won't get ambushed.  I don't know how you get trust back.

 

37 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Two things that will help:

1) general public needs to stop thinking of cops as mediators or anything other than person who is there to finish a situation.

2) police need to be more active in the communities they represent. 

 

IMO a little distrust is ok, I don't trust cops unless I know them personally. People can video tape everything now and I will be video taping any interaction with cops I have and I have told my kids the same. I have also told my kids to do as cop says and I will sue later if cop is wrong. 

 

 

That's good advice.  One thing you don't do is practice law in the streets.  Or engage in a confrontation with armed police.  If you think your rights have been violated then taking it to court is the best recourse.  I don't know what the cops or Wright were thinking here.  Its seems like a unique situation and a real tragedy. 

I've been involved in several traffic stops by police and in only one instance did I get a ticket.  This, for a bad inspection sticker.  I handled them all the same way.  Cooperated and made sure I didn't communicate any hostile or confrontational message.  Provided my documentation as request, and then drove away no worse for wear.  I suspect Wright didn't follow my example here. 

 

But I'm not taking the cops side here either.  A few years ago I left a party across town about 11 PM for what's about an 8 mile ride home.  About 1 mile into my trip a patrol car appears in my rear view mirror and follows me all the way home glued to me about 10 feet back all the way.  Left turns, right turns, right behind me all the way.  I wasn't drinking or speeding or doing anything improper.  He didn't pull me over but the only thing the cop didn't do was pull into my driveway behind me and tuck us in for a good night's sleep.  So I know what people mean when they say they're getting hassled for no reason.  But during the ride home I resisted the urge to pull over and ask what the problem was here?  That I told myself would be a mistake in judgment.

My buddy Stan was working late at night and got pulled over the local cops for DWB down the street from our office.  A black man driving around a wealthy suburban generally white community can draw attention.  Stan being a smart guy acted consistent with what I had done and left the scene of the traffic stop for home.  Its a certainty he was pulled over because he was black but he was situationally aware.  He could have raised a bias case through the legal system afterward but chose not to take that route. 

 

So the cops are far from perfect too.  And just like any other profession there are great performers and poor one's too.  As oldman said in his post there's a lack of trust and I'll add what I see as no willingness on the sides to come together for a heart-to-heart sit-down discussion to reach some kind of compromise and objective understanding to ease tensions and bring back some sense of civility. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Melon]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or....how about when the police officer tells you to do something...YOU DO IT! The most recent and most highly publicized incidents all include a single common denominator, the person interacting with the police is not following the officers’ reasonable commands. 

 

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or....how about when the police officer tells you to do something...YOU DO IT! The most recent and most highly publicized incidents all include a single common denominator, the person interacting with the police is not following the officers’ reasonable commands. 

I agree in part.  But I am also not a black man.  And from speaking to those who are, they feel that even if they do so they are in danger.  You and I may not agree with that, but I don't walk in their shoes.

 

I look at this latest incident and compare it to six months ago when I was pulled over for not having a front headlight working.  The policeman walked up to my car window. kindly informed me that I had a light out, and I thanked him and told him I'd get it fixed.  He thanked me and we were done.  Would that same encounter happened if I were black?  I don't know.  I do know friends of my daughter that are black report being followed and/or pulled over for no reason.

[Tiberius]

29 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or....how about when the police officer tells you to do something...YOU DO IT! The most recent and most highly publicized incidents all include a single common denominator, the person interacting with the police is not following the officers’ reasonable commands. 

This is all fine and well for people who are rational and having good days. But usually, when police have to intervene in situations people are not acting rationally and/or are having the worst days of their lives. Police don't show up at tea parties, they show up at situations were people are very angry and not acting rationally. 

 

A big part of the  job of the police is to settle people down

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or....how about when the police officer tells you to do something...YOU DO IT! The most recent and most highly publicized incidents all include a single common denominator, the person interacting with the police is not following the officers’ reasonable commands. 

 

This goes back to not wanting to blame the victim. But at some point it needs to be said that if you resist arrest, this is what can happen.  I get that black people are afraid and/or distrustful of cops, but I would think that ending up dead is probably their biggest fear. So I’m not sure why they engage in confrontations like this and why nobody says anything about it, as if resisting arrest is what they should and/or have a right to do.

 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

This goes back to not wanting to blame the victim. But at some point it needs to be said that if you resist arrest, this is what can happen.  I get that black people are afraid and/or distrustful of cops, but I would think that ending up dead is probably their biggest fear. So I’m not sure why they engage in confrontations like this and why nobody says anything about it, as if resisting arrest is what they should and/or have a right to do.

 

Come on Doc! Don’t you dare go stating the obvious now. That’s not allowed in America anymore. There are literally hundreds, probably thousands, of peaceful interactions between police and black men every day. I know that police get training by their supervisors. Do young black men get similar training by theirs? Just do want the officer tells you to do! Geez

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Come on Doc! Don’t you dare go stating the obvious now. That’s not allowed in America anymore. There are literally hundreds, probably thousands, of peaceful interactions between police and black men every day. I know that police get training by their supervisors. Do young black men get similar training by theirs? Just do want the officer tells you to do! Geez

I was working with a G.I. doctor last week who is Jewish and a big Democrat and CNN (he puts it on) was on in the kitchen and they were talking about the Chauvin trial.  I said “I don’t know what the officer was thinking” and he said “this could happen to you or me.”  I said “no it wouldn’t, because we wouldn’t resist arrest.”  He had no choice but to agree with me.

[Orlando Tim]

38 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I agree in part.  But I am also not a black man.  And from speaking to those who are, they feel that even if they do so they are in danger.  You and I may not agree with that, but I don't walk in their shoes.

 

I look at this latest incident and compare it to six months ago when I was pulled over for not having a front headlight working.  The policeman walked up to my car window. kindly informed me that I had a light out, and I thanked him and told him I'd get it fixed.  He thanked me and we were done.  Would that same encounter happened if I were black?  I don't know.  I do know friends of my daughter that are black report being followed and/or pulled over for no reason.

So your argument is that due to the bad intentions of cops you should give them reasons to shoot you? Speak to people from the old soviet block, where cops were untouchable, and the people all did as told and gave no guff to cops EVER. I am aware that there is issues for black people especially in large city areas, but that is not what is causing these guys to be shot. 

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

This incident defines the word tragedy.   To the larger issue, there is simply no trust on either side anymore.  The black community has no trust in the police; they feel they are at risk every time they encounter a policeman.  And the police have no trust that they won't get ambushed.  I don't know how you get trust back.

I think a good start would be to try and recruit more blacks into urban police forces, and not just as token hires.  

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

I think a good start would be to try and recruit more blacks into urban police forces, and not just as token hires.  

They have been. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I agree in part.  But I am also not a black man.  And from speaking to those who are, they feel that even if they do so they are in danger.  You and I may not agree with that, but I don't walk in their shoes.

 

I look at this latest incident and compare it to six months ago when I was pulled over for not having a front headlight working.  The policeman walked up to my car window. kindly informed me that I had a light out, and I thanked him and told him I'd get it fixed.  He thanked me and we were done.  Would that same encounter happened if I were black?  I don't know.  I do know friends of my daughter that are black report being followed and/or pulled over for no reason.

 

I'm pretty sure the same would have happened had you been black.  Almost all of these incidents (I won't take your third hand anecdotes from your daughter) have happened due to the person either having warrants out for their arrest and/or not complying with officers or worse running.  

50 minutes ago, Doc said:

I was working with a G.I. doctor last week who is Jewish and a big Democrat and CNN (he puts it on) was on in the kitchen and they were talking about the Chauvin trial.  I said “I don’t know what the officer was thinking” and he said “this could happen to you or me.”  I said “no it wouldn’t, because we wouldn’t resist arrest.”  He had no choice but to agree with me.

 

I'm surprised he didn't come back with "well yeah....you're white"  And that is an assumption on my part that you are. 

[SoCal Deek]

31 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

I think a good start would be to try and recruit more blacks into urban police forces, and not just as token hires.  

What? The officer standing right next to the car is BLACK!!

[Chef Jim]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

They have been. 

 

That reminds me of Attica Prison in the 70's.  I grew up not far from there and my dad's restaurant was in the town of Attica and I worked there and fed lots of CO's.  The guards went on strike and they brought in the National Guard to work the prison.  The word was that the inmates were so happy because the National Guardsmen were actually interested in them.  Learning their story.  That was then they made a push to hire more CO's of color from outside the local area.  

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What? The officer standing right next to the car is BLACK!!

 

He was a "token" hire.  

[Tenhigh]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What? The officer standing right next to the car is BLACK!!

That's one, and specific to this incident.  My response was in general to what can be done to fix the relationship between the black community and the police.  You don't think that would help?

25 minutes ago, Doc said:

They have been. 

Maybe I should have said "successfully hire", lol.  

[oldmanfan]

36 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I'm pretty sure the same would have happened had you been black.  Almost all of these incidents (I won't take your third hand anecdotes from your daughter) have happened due to the person either having warrants out for their arrest and/or not complying with officers or worse running.  

 

I'm surprised he didn't come back with "well yeah....you're white"  And that is an assumption on my part that you are. 

Well, here's a first person account.  I have black friends whom I've talked with about this issue, and they also report being followed and such.  I try to put myself in the other person's shoes, and not try to suggest they don't have different shoes.

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, here's a first person account.  I have black friends whom I've talked with about this issue, and they also report being followed and such.  I try to put myself in the other person's shoes, and not try to suggest they don't have different shoes.

 

Of course.  I'm huge with empathy.  And being followed?  Sure they are not paranoid?  If they are they may be have good reason for their paranoia but that isn't necessarily a reflection of the officers who are "following" him wouldn't you agree?  

Edited April 16, 2021 by Chef Jim

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Of course.  I'm huge with empathy.  And being followed?  Sure they are not paranoid?  If they are they may be have good reason for their paranoia but that isn't necessarily a reflection of the officers who are "following" him wouldn't you agree?  

No.  Because the people I talk to are just driving along in my town, and get pulled over for no reason.  Again, I am not a black man.  Black men and women have a different perspective.  So do the police.  It would behoove everyone in our society to step back and look at things from another's perspective.

 

If I'm a police officer I am worried every night I go out on shift if I'm coming back home the next day.  If you talk to back men and women, they say the same thing when they or their child goes out that night.  

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No.  Because the people I talk to are just driving along in my town, and get pulled over for no reason.  Again, I am not a black man.  Black men and women have a different perspective.  So do the police.  It would behoove everyone in our society to step back and look at things from another's perspective.

 

If I'm a police officer I am worried every night I go out on shift if I'm coming back home the next day.  If you talk to back men and women, they say the same thing when they or their child goes out that night.  

 

Wait.  Are they being followed or being pulled over?  Your changing of your story is a bit suspicious.  

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

I'm surprised he didn't come back with "well yeah....you're white"  And that is an assumption on my part that you are. 

i’m actually not. I am a 1st gen Indian-American.  So I have the nice tan going all the time but no accent.  Although now that you mention it, I was talking to my neighbor (who I’ve lived next to for the last 20 years) the other day and in the course of a conversation not about race at all said “you’re a white guy.”  I found that funny.

 

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

That's one, and specific to this incident.  My response was in general to what can be done to fix the relationship between the black community and the police.  You don't think that would help?

Maybe I should have said "successfully hire", lol.  

You can’t make them apply. Just like the Bills can’t just go out and sign any player they want.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Doc

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Wait.  Are they being followed or being pulled over?  Your changing of your story is a bit suspicious.  

Both.  I have been told both.  Black folks are scared of the police; police are scared too.  That situation needs to be fixed and that's what should be focused on.

 

I have been pulled over maybe half a dozen times in my life, a few times for speeding, a couple times for something wrong with my car, a couple times because I was late updating my registration sticker.  In each case, I had one police officer pull me over, come up to my window (which I had already rolled down, and ask me for my license and registration if needed, or to tell me what was wrong with my car.  Not one time in such a stop have I ever had a police officer order to me to exit my car or get loud with me. each interaction was pleasant and we each were polite with each other, even when I thought I didn't deserve a ticket.   If you look at the incident the other day, either for the soldier who did not have a license plate showing (which he did upon further examination) in the one in Minneapolis, there were multiple police officers who showed up, and the individuals were ordered out of their cars for something that have not have.  The question is why.  Why are the police scared in such situations, and why are blacks scared to comply?  Rather than talking past each other, real conversations need to take place.  I am a big proponent of law and order.  The problem isn't the law part, it's the order part that has to be worked on.

 

  

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Both.  I have been told both.  Black folks are scared of the police; police are scared too.  That situation needs to be fixed and that's what should be focused on.

I believe what you’re hearing. But again resisting arrest/making threatening actions only makes things worse, and it doesn’t matter your skin color.  Expecting only one side to change will never work. 

[Chef Jim]

21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Both.  I have been told both.  Black folks are scared of the police; police are scared too.  That situation needs to be fixed and that's what should be focused on.

 

I have been pulled over maybe half a dozen times in my life, a few times for speeding, a couple times for something wrong with my car, a couple times because I was late updating my registration sticker.  In each case, I had one police officer pull me over, come up to my window (which I had already rolled down, and ask me for my license and registration if needed, or to tell me what was wrong with my car.  Not one time in such a stop have I ever had a police officer order to me to exit my car or get loud with me. each interaction was pleasant and we each were polite with each other, even when I thought I didn't deserve a ticket.   If you look at the incident the other day, either for the soldier who did not have a license plate showing (which he did upon further examination) in the one in Minneapolis, there were multiple police officers who showed up, and the individuals were ordered out of their cars for something that have not have.  The question is why.  Why are the police scared in such situations, and why are blacks scared to comply?  Rather than talking past each other, real conversations need to take place.  I am a big proponent of law and order.  The problem isn't the law part, it's the order part that has to be worked on.

 

  

 

Couple things.

 

1.  You were polite and did as you were told. Did not exit your car unless asked to and I don't think you had any outstanding warrants. 

2.  Duane Wright has a warrant out for his arrest.  The warrant was for aggravated armed robbery.  He also appeared to resist.

 

Do you see the difference? 

[Tenhigh]

41 minutes ago, Doc said:

You can’t make them apply. Just like the Bills can’t just go out and sign any player they want.

True, and if an organization BLM really wants to fix the problem they would try and get more blacks in law enforcement.   

[T&C]

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

That reminds me of Attica Prison in the 70's.  I grew up not far from there and my dad's restaurant was in the town of Attica and I worked there and fed lots of CO's.  The guards went on strike and they brought in the National Guard to work the prison.  The word was that the inmates were so happy because the National Guardsmen were actually interested in them.  Learning their story.  That was then they made a push to hire more CO's of color from outside the local area.  

 

He was a "token" hire.  

Same here, I know that town inside and out... graduated from HS there. Meisners, Nino's... Attica Hotel? Surely you remember the T&C just outside of town on the shortcut to Darien. Wonder if the Tip is still there, right across from the Prison.