BADOLBILZ Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Butler was signed as the replacement to Jordan Phillips at 3TDT opposite Oliver. With the Bills situation "who in the world can play 1TDT?" between Star opting out and Phillips unable to hack it initially, Butler (and Oliver) were both pressed into service at 1TDT, that being the reason Butler was a bit less impactful than Jefferson. The Bills are banking on if they return him to his position at 3TDT, he'll return to form. Exactly........he was coming off a 6 sack season and was slated to replace Phillips. But they also signed Jefferson.........not yet knowing they would get a regular contributor at DE in Epenesa in the draft. So as it turned out Jefferson's fit was better at 3T. I think they tried to find another DT in season and they found a big contributor in the smallish Justin Zimmer. So Butler really got stuck with more 1TDT duty than he likely signed up for. And he entirely replaced Star Lotulelei in those snaps. Not a popular opinion because people want a reason for the ypc going up against the run..........but they had a MUCH, MUCH tougher schedule........they also lost 3 guys who made a lot of plays behind the LOS in 2019.........without Alexander they played more 4-2-5 and the "2" in that equation were banged up for much of the season. Butler in and Jefferson out fits what I saw on the field. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buftex said: It's funny that everyone sees Star was the "missing piece" from the D-line in 2020, when many wanted him cut in 2019! Before and after results speak pretty loud and clear. Nobody ever values dudes that eat double teams and don't really put up many stats until they aren't there and then you realize their value. Edited March 10, 2021 by Big Turk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Exactly........he was coming off a 6 sack season and was slated to replace Phillips. But they also signed Jefferson.........not yet knowing they would get a regular contributor at DE in Epenesa in the draft. So as it turned out Jefferson's fit was better at 3T. I think they tried to find another DT in season and they found a big contributor in the smallish Justin Zimmer. So Butler really got stuck with more 1TDT duty than he likely signed up for. And he entirely replaced Star Lotulelei in those snaps. Not a popular opinion because people want a reason for the ypc going up against the run..........but they had a MUCH, MUCH tougher schedule........they also lost 3 guys who made a lot of plays behind the LOS in 2019.........without Alexander they played more 4-2-5 and the "2" in that equation were banged up for much of the season. Butler in and Jefferson out fits what I saw on the field. True. Jefferson was more of a Shaq Lawson replacement. The problem is they kept Trent Murphy. Should have cut him and saved $7 million. I'm still not sure why they kept him. I'm guessing had Star played Murphy would've been gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 This paycut better be massive, cutting would have saved close to 7 million on cap. The guy was terrible last year. A complete no show when he was healthy, and was unreliable. A cap hit of 2 million would be about right for this guy, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Reader said: Out of curiosity, what happens if they IR Star? Can they do that? They can but unless he's injured, it only hurts them. He still has the same cap hit, depending on game bonuses/incentives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, Back2Buff said: This paycut better be massive, cutting would have saved close to 7 million on cap. The guy was terrible last year. A complete no show when he was healthy, and was unreliable. A cap hit of 2 million would be about right for this guy, He's got so many people on his side, GM, HC, and DL coach. They must believe he has untapped potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back2Buff Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: He's got so many people on his side, GM, HC, and DL coach. They must believe he has untapped potential. He's going into year 6. Only had one good year. How much untapped potential can really be there? Potential is just another word for no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, Doc said: I have no idea what shape Star is in. But I doubt he retires because he would owed the Bills a lot of money. The worst-case is he returns out-of-shape (too heavy or too light) and goes through the motion to get himself cut or plays poorly during the season. Hopefully he kept himself in shape and is motivated to play for a SB contender. The worst case scenario is my fear as well. Let’s hope for the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, Back2Buff said: He's going into year 6. Only had one good year. How much untapped potential can really be there? Potential is just another word for no results. He did play well the last quarter or so of the season. Listen I don't know. They like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: True. Jefferson was more of a Shaq Lawson replacement. The problem is they kept Trent Murphy. Should have cut him and saved $7 million. I'm still not sure why they kept him. I'm guessing had Star played Murphy would've been gone. You may be right that they MAY have cut Murphy if they didn't have to use a rotation of 3T's at 1T. But remember he was coming off a 3 sack playoff game and they might have still been thinking last September that he was going to be that rangy 9 sack guy he was at his best in Washington. Of course they also re-found Zimmer because Star opted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Late in the year Butler played good enough for a space eater plus. Jefferson was obvious, Brown same thing. I think Adison is likley a placeholder. If they sign someone better he is moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 53 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Exactly........he was coming off a 6 sack season and was slated to replace Phillips. But they also signed Jefferson.........not yet knowing they would get a regular contributor at DE in Epenesa in the draft. So as it turned out Jefferson's fit was better at 3T. I think they tried to find another DT in season and they found a big contributor in the smallish Justin Zimmer. So Butler really got stuck with more 1TDT duty than he likely signed up for. And he entirely replaced Star Lotulelei in those snaps. Not a popular opinion because people want a reason for the ypc going up against the run..........but they had a MUCH, MUCH tougher schedule........they also lost 3 guys who made a lot of plays behind the LOS in 2019.........without Alexander they played more 4-2-5 and the "2" in that equation were banged up for much of the season. Butler in and Jefferson out fits what I saw on the field. This is a very good summary. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 49 minutes ago, Back2Buff said: This paycut better be massive, cutting would have saved close to 7 million on cap. The guy was terrible last year. A complete no show when he was healthy, and was unreliable. A cap hit of 2 million would be about right for this guy, I actually thought Butler played better the last few games of the regular season and in the playoffs. He was asked to play NT a lot and he isn't an NT despite his size. He was horrid at it for most of the season but I thought his improved play helped a lot with improving the run defense to close the season. I think if he shaves his salary down to 4-5 million he can justify it as being a high end pass rushing reserve DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Reader said: Out of curiosity, what happens if they IR Star? Can they do that? We get no cap relief and we're on the hook for his salary (almost all vet players have injury guarantees in their contract, and Lotulelei's salary is fully guaranteed this year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well I guess we won't even try to convince you then, but why don't you suggest some players you have in mind? (bearing in mind Butler by nature is a 3TDT) Well there are about 50 now and sure to be more on the markjet shortly. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/defensive-tackle/available/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, ngbills said: Well there are about 50 now and sure to be more on the markjet shortly. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/defensive-tackle/available/ I can find a list. I'm asking you, since you're so persuaded we can find someone better for less money, who you suggest? Again, bearing in mind Butler is a 3TDT, not a NT or 1T You must be able to identify, say, 3, along with a scouting report and some justification of why they'd be better. Since no one can convince you otherwise and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I can find a list. I'm asking you, since you're so persuaded we can find someone better for less money, who you suggest? Again, bearing in mind Butler is a 3TDT, not a NT or 1T You must be able to identify, say, 3, along with a scouting report and some justification of why they'd be better. Since no one can convince you otherwise and all that. Yes, I could do that if I took the time. My point, this year is a good year as any to find a cheaper replacement than a guy getting paid $7M that is a non-factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Good move. Now cut Addison and get younger on the DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 There’s something to be said for a little continuity and 2020 was a crazy year for everyone. Could’ve been a case of Butler was willing to take pay cut and Jefferson wasn’t. I got no problem keeping him at a reduced number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, YattaOkasan said: That might be it either way i still hope he doesnt retire (I'm gonna keep trying to find more info). Trying to get that bonus back sounds like its a bit painful. Barry Sanders paid back prorated signing bonus each year getting interest free loan. Each year he would say "Maybe I will unretire" as reason he did not pay back bonus in full. These days players retire and then threaten to unretire when team cannot afford them. Kyle Orton pulled that stunt. Jeremiah Ratliff did something like that with his agent saying it would take a year for him to heal and so Cowboys released him and then he passed physical with other teams and played for Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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