McMuffin Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Are Allen and Mahomes the new standard at QB when it comes to physical talent? It seems that with all of this QB movement, trade and draft rumors that teams are willing to take more risks and go all out in order to acquire a franchise QB either through trade or the draft. How much pressure has Allen and Mahomes’ success put on other teams to find their QB of the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Not sure it's all Allen/Mahomes, its just the league understands there isn't enough QBs for 32 teams. If one is available you have to go get it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 The importance of a franchise QB has always been known. Obviously it's become more important as the league has become a passing one. I think what you're seeing is teams looking to acquire proven guys rather than take chances on unknown rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Allen is a lesson in wholistic scouting. You have to examine why a player is inaccurate in college and assess if they can improve in the pros. You can't just rely on analytics and past results. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) I think so. You need a game changer, play maker at QB. You need mobility. You need an arm. You need a leader. If you have a game manager, or a noodle arm, or a statue, you are just spinning your wheels. Josh isn’t perfect, he’s very much still developing and hasn’t hit his ceiling .. but he’s the type of QB who can take a team to a SB. I think the days of winning a SB with a Trent dilfer or Brad Johnson are over. Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, probably Lawrence ... Russell Wilson types ... these are the “ IT” QBs of today’s nfl. Big arm + mobility .... add intangibles and intelligence and that’s the formula Edited February 5, 2021 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97bills Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 46 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said: Not sure it's all Allen/Mahomes, its just the league understands there isn't enough QBs for 32 teams. If one is available you have to go get it. Yep nothing changed look at the past 20 year the Manning brothers Big Ben Brady bress Rodgers even Wilson all stayed in the playoffs you got to have that QB. you can build and plug a long the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I think the lesson is that mobile athletic QBs like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Murray and Jackson are more desirable than the historically prototypical pocket passers for today’s game. Especially for young players learning the position, mobility gives them another tool to use to keep drives alive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Teams have absolutely always felt the pressure to find their QB of the future. No change whatsoever there. 43 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think so. You need a game changer, play maker at QB. You need mobility. You need an arm. You need a leader. If you have a game manager, or a noodle arm, or a statue, you are just spinning your wheels. Josh isn’t perfect, he’s very much still developing and hasn’t hit his ceiling .. but he’s the type of QB who can take a team to a SB. I think the days of winning a SB with a Trent dilfer or Brad Johnson are over. Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, probably Lawrence ... Russell Wilson types ... these are the “ IT” QBs of today’s nfl. Big arm + mobility .... add intangibles and intelligence and that’s the formula Tom Brady says hi. Movement is an added weapon. It isn't necessary, though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Teams have absolutely always felt the pressure to find their QB of the future. No change whatsoever there. Tom Brady says hi. Movement is an added weapon. It isn't necessary, though. I disagree - it is necessary. Brady is a 6th round pick who turned into the greatest QB of all time. If you find another Brady you don’t need to be able to move. Good luck with that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 45 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Teams have absolutely always felt the pressure to find their QB of the future. No change whatsoever there. Tom Brady says hi. Movement is an added weapon. It isn't necessary, though. The douche in Tampa Bay USED TO have the best functional pocket mobility I'd ever seen. That guy, despite being a gangly mess, could sidestep a single rusher or step up into a lane and then deliver a strike with startling efficiency. He was elusive within the structure of the pocket. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I disagree - it is necessary. Brady is a 6th round pick who turned into the greatest QB of all time. If you find another Brady you don’t need to be able to move. Good luck with that. It really is not. You're right that Brady is a singularity. There really are no other Tom Bradys out there. And please, what round a guy is picked in has nothing whatsoever to do with whether he is a great QB. That's all on what he becomes. Thing is, same with Josh Allen. Nobody else like Allen is out there. Same with Mahomes. They're all great in different ways. What you need is a great quarterback, a quarterback who is superb in the pass game. If he is also mobile, that's a fantastic added extra. But it's not necessary. Jimmy Garoppolo was in the Super Bowl last year. Goff and Brady before that. Foles/Wentz and Brady before that. And while Wentz has regressed, if he hadn't he'd be looked at as a long-term franchise type guy despite not being mobile. Any team having a shot at a young Drew Brees would take it in a millisecond. You simply do not need it. A Kurt Warner or a Carson Palmer could be wildly successful in the NFL today. Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers and Stafford, if on good teams, would put their teams in contention every year. It helps. If you put together the ideal QB, he'd be mobile. But mobility is not among the minimum requirements for greatness at QB. Brady is in the Super Bowl. This year. Right now. For good reason. And they wouldn't be there or close without him despite his lack of athleticism. 19 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: The douche in Tampa Bay USED TO have the best functional pocket mobility I'd ever seen. That guy, despite being a gangly mess, could sidestep a single rusher or step up into a lane and then deliver a strike with startling efficiency. He was elusive within the structure of the pocket. Oh, agreed, 100%. But it wasn't because he was athletic or quick or fast. It was because he always stepped in the right direction at the right time, without taking his eyes off of what was going on downfield. It was a head thing. And he's still in the Super Bowl at age 43 and it ain't because of his mobility or athleticism. Edited February 5, 2021 by Thurman#1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I think the point @BADOLBILZ made a couple of weeks back was a really interesting one. The way the league plays Quarterback changes.... in the 00 and early 10s when every defense wanted to be the Ravens with their disguise and heavy blitz style the Quarterbacks who for the most part succeeded were the cerebral pocket guys who could process quickly and had a quick release. As the league morphed into more of a coverage league where teams on defense started to win with their back end - a trend kicked off really with the Legion of Boom and the cover 3 in Seattle - it became more important again to have an athlete with an arm to force that D out of its relatively simple scheme. That is why I think when you look at the best 6 Quarterbacks this year - the old man in Tampa apart - they are all the guys who can be off script playmakers: Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Watson, Wilson.... it is the reason football is so fascinating as a game because the strategy of it is constantly evolving. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 GB and Thurm, you’re both right so I guess credit goes to Badolbilz (I don’t remember reading that post). A team can still win with a quick release QB like Brady, but the trend with coverage allows for the mobile QB. The funny thing is football seems to ebb and flow so some things from the past may come up again. It’s not like a hurry up offense is new, nor RPO’s, and even the wildcat. Sparano didn’t invent the wildcat. That was around in the 50’s and 60’s. A lot of great coaches are students of the game from the past and just place a twist on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 I think it may change the way certain QBs are drafted, and where. I've seen a lot of stuff about college prospects who are raw but have great physical attributes, along with "could be the next Josh Allen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frat-Train Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) Allen is rare in that he offers every quality you want in a drop back passer, while still possessing everything you hope to find in an elite “running” QB. The level of impact’s surface has only been scratched, meaning; Josh Allen has only begun to show what today’s QB could look like, if you’re diligent in your search and developmental in your method. Edited February 5, 2021 by Frat-Train 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I think so. You need a game changer, play maker at QB. You need mobility. You need an arm. You need a leader. If you have a game manager, or a noodle arm, or a statue, you are just spinning your wheels. Josh isn’t perfect, he’s very much still developing and hasn’t hit his ceiling .. but he’s the type of QB who can take a team to a SB. I think the days of winning a SB with a Trent dilfer or Brad Johnson are over. Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, probably Lawrence ... Russell Wilson types ... these are the “ IT” QBs of today’s nfl. Big arm + mobility .... add intangibles and intelligence and that’s the formula Be careful there. If Garrapolo doesn’t overthrow that bomb to Emmanuel Sanders by 2 feet, we’re having a different conversation. The disparity in SF’s record when Garrapolo starts and when he doesn’t is very stark. Edited February 5, 2021 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think the point @BADOLBILZ made a couple of weeks back was a really interesting one. The way the league plays Quarterback changes.... in the 00 and early 10s when every defense wanted to be the Ravens with their disguise and heavy blitz style the Quarterbacks who for the most part succeeded were the cerebral pocket guys who could process quickly and had a quick release. As the league morphed into more of a coverage league where teams on defense started to win with their back end - a trend kicked off really with the Legion of Boom and the cover 3 in Seattle - it became more important again to have an athlete with an arm to force that D out of its relatively simple scheme. That is why I think when you look at the best 6 Quarterbacks this year - the old man in Tampa apart - they are all the guys who can be off script playmakers: Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Watson, Wilson.... it is the reason football is so fascinating as a game because the strategy of it is constantly evolving. Where do folks place Justin Herbert on this spectrum? I ask because along with Russell Wilson in 2012 and maybe Marino in 1983, that was the most impressive rookie season for a qb I’ve seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, McMuffin said: Are Allen and Mahomes the new standard at QB when it comes to physical talent? It seems that with all of this QB movement, trade and draft rumors that teams are willing to take more risks and go all out in order to acquire a franchise QB either through trade or the draft. How much pressure has Allen and Mahomes’ success put on other teams to find their QB of the future? Look at Herbert and Burrows they are cut from the same mold as Mahomee and Josh....(Tua can run but can he make all the throws throws? ) The kid from BYU who should go in the top 5 is another one....if your not mobile now your a sitting duck. If you have a sitting duck....(Stafford) you might need to get mobile...(Goff)..I am not saying Goff is better he can run a lot better though. The guys like Brady and Ryan are throwback dinosaurs and without their veteran smarts wouldn't be as successful now. 9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Teams have absolutely always felt the pressure to find their QB of the future. No change whatsoever there. Tom Brady says hi. Movement is an added weapon. It isn't necessary, though. If you have a great line or lots of veteran smarts you can succeed but its not happening very much anymore. Edited February 5, 2021 by JMF2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) The QB position hasn’t changed. What do teams want? They want a guy who can throw the ball to their receivers, and not to the other team’s players...very consistently. That’s it! There is no formula. All of these guys have different skill sets. Sure, their physical dimensions (height, arm strength) are what you can measure at the Combine but in the end it’s mostly about consistent performance on the field against the speed of an NFL caliber defense. Edited February 5, 2021 by SoCal Deek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) I think Watson changed the game. Not Mahomes or Allen. Teams never trade a young top QB in their prime. There is too much risk. With Watson likely traded every GM/owner knows whatever they do will be lessened because Watson also was traded. I think Jay Cutler is the best young starting QB traded. Just shows young starters don't get traded. I also think Dallas is attempting to change how QB gets paid. Goff and Wentz might have scared off Dallas. If you sign these QB's to contracts and they don't continue to earn it well you're in a deep hole. Edited February 5, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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