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Rising Tide Lifts All Boats - Schefter sez Jets could get 1st round pick for Darnold


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58 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The lack of apparent development in three NFL seasons.  Sam and Josh are by all accounts really good friends, and they both work with Jordan Palmer.  Sam was a "chosen one" at the QB position, playing at USC and lauded as "the next best thing" as a freshman.  It came easy to him, and I don't get the impression he is putting in the necessary work.  It's really a study in contrast between a guy who has had to fight for everything (Josh) and one who has had a lot handed to him (Sam).  Doesn't make him a bad guy, but how many uber-talented athletes never reach greatness because they just don't have the necessary drive?  That's what I see in Sam.  Do I know this for certain?  Of course not, but it is my instinct.

 

I don't know that I agree. I think Darnold works. He just looks totally bereft of confidence to me. And I am not sure the Allen comparison is helpful at this stage. Josh was a top 5 QB last year and Sam was a bottom 5 QB. The question is just about is there still hope for Sam Darnold. I think there is, but he needs a complete fresh start in a new place with a staff that is going to rebuild his psyche. I think he has drive. At times my assessment of his play with the Jets has been him pressing too hard to make things happen on an awful team. I don't think he lacks motivation. I think he lacks confidence and development of his game. 

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I think Rosen fetched a 2nd because there was a widespread perception he'd come into a bad situation and because of the coaching change. Jimmy G looked terrific in those 4 games.  But sure, part

Disagree.  Anyone who gives a late first for Darnold is simply acknowledging that the Jets organization is a tire fire and almost no one had a chance to succeed in that position.   Would Jos

Anyone who trades a first round pick for Darnold needs to go into and STAY in QB purgatory.

18 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I think there are 2 teams to keep an eye on...Washington at 19 and Indy at 21. Both are in that range and both were believed to have been heavily involved in Stafford. 

Darnold is on year 4 of his contract.  So a team trading for him gives up a #1 for 1 year, 2 if they pick up the option?  Not convinced this happens unless the think he really is a franchise guy.

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18 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Becton, Williams, Darnold and 2 1st round picks for Watson.

 

 

Williams?  Can you be more specific?  You mean the guy they traded to the Giants, who had a DPOY-type season this year?

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32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know that I agree. I think Darnold works. He just looks totally bereft of confidence to me. And I am not sure the Allen comparison is helpful at this stage. Josh was a top 5 QB last year and Sam was a bottom 5 QB. The question is just about is there still hope for Sam Darnold. I think there is, but he needs a complete fresh start in a new place with a staff that is going to rebuild his psyche. I think he has drive. At times my assessment of his play with the Jets has been him pressing too hard to make things happen on an awful team. I don't think he lacks motivation. I think he lacks confidence and development of his game. 

 

I use the comparison because these are both 1st round QBs taken in the same year who have both worked with the same trainer.  One could argue Sam had the better scenario by far his first year, yet look where we are after year 3.  I completely understand where you're coming from but I think my assessment is just as likely to be accurate.

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25 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

Darnold is on year 4 of his contract.  So a team trading for him gives up a #1 for 1 year, 2 if they pick up the option?  Not convinced this happens unless the think he really is a franchise guy.

 

There's a ton of teams with needs - but id assume the watson pin drops first (if at all).  After that its a lot of filling gaps and waiting for the draft.  If the guy Denver wants at 9 falls to them, they will draft him.  If not, they might consider Darnold.

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43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know that I agree. I think Darnold works. He just looks totally bereft of confidence to me. And I am not sure the Allen comparison is helpful at this stage. Josh was a top 5 QB last year and Sam was a bottom 5 QB. The question is just about is there still hope for Sam Darnold. I think there is, but he needs a complete fresh start in a new place with a staff that is going to rebuild his psyche. I think he has drive. At times my assessment of his play with the Jets has been him pressing too hard to make things happen on an awful team. I don't think he lacks motivation. I think he lacks confidence and development of his game. 

Josh has 10 times the natural ability Darnold has.  Darnold’s “tools” have always been massively oversold.  He’s not even close to having one elite trait.  The two just can’t be compared.

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38 minutes ago, mannc said:

Josh has 10 times the natural ability Darnold has.  Darnold’s “tools” have always been massively oversold.  He’s not even close to having one elite trait.  The two just can’t be compared.

 

I think Josh has more talent too. I wasn't seeking to make a comparison. It isn't the question IMO. The question is entirely about Sam Darnold's future independent of Josh. 

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2 hours ago, mannc said:

Williams?  Can you be more specific?  You mean the guy they traded to the Giants, who had a DPOY-type season this year?

 

Quinnen. 

 

It's a big trade package, but realistic I think.

 

Gives the Texans #2 overall this year, 3 solid roster players with some term left and no dead cap if they want to move them for other picks/players, and a 2022 #1 pick, which could likely be high as well. 

 

Jets get Watson and have the cap room to absorb the dead cap from the trade. 

 

 

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Hahaha no one in this league is giving up a first for Sam Darnold. If the Jets trade him they will be lucky to get a 3rd. He’s done. A bust. You don’t play 3 years in the league and regress like he has just because your team sucks. I was never a Sam hater, I thought he had some potential to be a starter, but I’ve watched most of his games and he is HORRIBLE. His main problem is he has no idea where to go with the ball. He just doesn’t have the mental acuity down enough to be successful. Yeah, he will roll out and make a Wow play here and there out of structure but he’s on to backup-ville after his time with the Jets is done.

 

 

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I think Darnold is closer to being some teams back up QB than resurrecting his career as a starter, he has a very slim chance of being a top half of the league QB at this point. Jmo. 

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I'm kind of in the middle on Darnold.

 

Would I give up a later 1st for him? No...No I would not.

 

Do I believe some team would? Yes...Yes I do...B-)

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On 2/4/2021 at 1:36 PM, dave mcbride said:

Interesting take. It's got me thinking too - which top 10 QBs didn't produce for their first three years and then flourished a few years later, either for the team that drafted them or elsewhere?  I can think of Jim Plunkett, Steve Young, Terry Bradshaw, Tannehill (not sure if he fits; he was never really that bad) and Alex Smith. Steve Bartkowski (questionable, but he did have a couple of very good seasons 6-7 years after he was drafted #1 overall), Vinnie Testaverde (similar), and Jeff George (believe it or not, similar) all semi-qualify too.  Maybe Sam Bradford? He played pretty well over the course of 17 games for Minnesota before getting hurt again. Maybe not. 

Anyway, your larger point stands: it's basically a sea of continued failure going back decades for top ten picks who fail out of the gate: http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

I don't think Bradshaw counts. Steelers lost in the AFC Championship game to the undefeated Felons team his 3rd year. I remember him not looking too good his rookie year, but I don't think he was ever in danger of being dumped. Now Plunkett & Young, yeah, they didn't look good at all.

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Obviously the Bills are not in on this, but if a team I was a fan of gave up a first for him I would feel like Aaron Maybin was drafted all over again.

 

He was very inconsistent in college, did absolutely nothing to change that perception in the pros.

 

I believe Indy is a team that just needs a QB(hello Derek Carr?) But if Darnold went there they may as well fold up tent. Not going anywhere.

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8 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

Darnold is on year 4 of his contract.  So a team trading for him gives up a #1 for 1 year, 2 if they pick up the option?  Not convinced this happens unless the think he really is a franchise guy.

 

The Jets have to make that decision by may 5th. It's extremely unlikely they pick up the 5th year because Darnold would make something like 25 million+ for the 5th year. I can't imagine anyone wants to commit around 12.5% of the cap to a guy who they have no idea if he can play. So anyone who trades for him will be getting 1 year and the best case scenario is he lights it up and they get to immediately hand him a huge contract. 

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14 hours ago, Rico said:

I don't think Bradshaw counts. Steelers lost in the AFC Championship game to the undefeated Felons team his 3rd year. I remember him not looking too good his rookie year, but I don't think he was ever in danger of being dumped. Now Plunkett & Young, yeah, they didn't look good at all.

Good point. His stats were abjectly terrible in 1972 by today’s standards, but if you look at his adjusted passer rating that year, it’s 100 — which is exactly league average: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm. Another example that shows you can’t judge stats from that era using today’s stats as a benchmark. That said, he really wasn’t any good until 1975 (judged against his peers), his sixth season. After that, he was one of the league’s elite qbs. In those early years, the Steelers had a dominant run game and one of the best defenses ever. Maybe the best ever, in fact.

 

Also, he was benched for a time in 1973: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-joe-gilliam-takes-terry-bradshaws-starting-qb-job/.

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4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Good point. His stats were abjectly terrible in 1972 by today’s standards, but if you look at his adjusted passer rating that year, it’s 100 — which is exactly league average: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm. Another example that shows you can’t judge stats from that era using today’s stats as a benchmark. That said, he really wasn’t any good until 1975 (judged against his peers), his sixth season. After that, he was one of the league’s elite qbs. In those early years, the Steelers had a dominant run game and one of the best defenses ever. Maybe the best ever, in fact.

 

Also, he was benched for a time in 1973: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-joe-gilliam-takes-terry-bradshaws-starting-qb-job/.

.

Yeah, I forgot about Joe Gilliam, you were right the first time.

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