ndirish1978 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Ok you've convinced me, he'd be an upgrade to our backup QB position so let's do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Yeah. I remember when I worked for IBM years ago and they hired John Akers as the CEO without consulting me or asking my opinion. I was PO'D!🙄 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: Yeah. I remember when I worked for IBM years ago and they hired John Akers as the CEO without consulting me or asking my opinion. I was PO'D!🙄 Were you the highest paid employee and face of the company, directly responsible for the product they put out? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Were you the highest paid employee and face of the company, directly responsible for the product they put out? In my division, yes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) The Jets sending Darnold and both of their 1sts (#2 and #25ish) could maybe get it done. That gives Houston's new GM some picks to work with. Could take Smith #2 to give Darnold some weapons, or even trade back a bit with a team who is hot for Fields and stack more picks. Fun exercise even if it unlikely to happen. Edited January 8, 2021 by DrDawkinstein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Well if O'brien was still there maybe especially the way he's whining about not having any say but unless he really pisses off the new GM in some way i don't see him leaving he's the man in Houston for the time being ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Jets sending Darnold and both of their 1sts (#2 and #25ish) could maybe get it done. That gives Houston's new GM some picks to work with. Could take Smith #2 to give Darnold some weapons, or even trade back a bit with a team who is hot for Fields and stack more picks. Fun exercise even if it unlikely to happen. I'd want more. I'd want both of their 1sts this year, their 1st next year, Darnold and a mid round pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I DO expect Watt to be moved soon. And definitely before Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I'd want more. I'd want both of their 1sts this year, their 1st next year, Darnold and a mid round pick. Yeah, I think that’s the asking price. Could be a good trade for both teams. The Jets haven’t had a qb in forever and the Texans are going nowhere fast with their current roster, no cap room, and no draft picks. It’s a huge risk, but the payoff could be huge, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 15 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: Yeah. I remember when I worked for IBM years ago and they hired John Akers as the CEO without consulting me or asking my opinion. I was PO'D!🙄 One of the worst takes I've read on here (and that's saying something). Deshaun Watson just signed a 4 year 156mm contract. The guys opinion matters. I'll also point out that he didn't want to have final say or anything, he just wanted to be considered. From ESPN article: This time, Watson had met with Texans owner Cal McNair in several instances, sharing thoughts on certain candidates who came highly recommended, with Watson suggesting that the team at least talk to them, sources told ESPN. He did not expect Houston to hire those he endorsed, but Watson was hoping the Texans would respect the feelings of the group of teammates he was trying to represent, sources told ESPN. Watson wanted to at least have the opportunity to meet with ownership's finalists so he could offer thoughts from a player standpoint to benefit the team -- and then the Texans could hire who they wanted. That opportunity never came. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Were you the highest paid employee and face of the company, directly responsible for the product they put out? Hold on Returntoglory, are you a sentient ThinkPad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 26 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: Yeah. I remember when I worked for IBM years ago and they hired John Akers as the CEO without consulting me or asking my opinion. I was PO'D!🙄 ok guy. Did the board explicitly tell you they were going to consult with you before hiring the CEO and then just change their mind and hire Akers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: In my division, yes. So not equivalent at all. Got it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: So not equivalent at all. Got it. So you honestly think that an employee should have a say in hiring situations by ownership? 10 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: Hold on Returntoglory, are you a sentient ThinkPad? Aren't we all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Any sane franchise would not trade Watson for anything short of a Ricky Williams plus sized haul (like 2 hole drafts worth of picks, including #1 or #2 overall picks) and even then it's probably not a great trade. Still, Houston has shown that they are dumb, and so who knows IF it will happen. I do know that if NE ends up with him it will suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 25 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: One of the worst takes I've read on here (and that's saying something). Deshaun Watson just signed a 4 year 156mm contract. The guys opinion matters. I'll also point out that he didn't want to have final say or anything, he just wanted to be considered. From ESPN article: This time, Watson had met with Texans owner Cal McNair in several instances, sharing thoughts on certain candidates who came highly recommended, with Watson suggesting that the team at least talk to them, sources told ESPN. He did not expect Houston to hire those he endorsed, but Watson was hoping the Texans would respect the feelings of the group of teammates he was trying to represent, sources told ESPN. Watson wanted to at least have the opportunity to meet with ownership's finalists so he could offer thoughts from a player standpoint to benefit the team -- and then the Texans could hire who they wanted. That opportunity never came. Thank you. BUT for the record, if he was promised to have a sit down with a candidate, that should be honored. Once again though, he's a player and at what point does this end? If he gives his opinion on a candidate and that candidate does not get selected, then what? I'm sorry but IMHO there has to be a line drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said: Any sane franchise would not trade Watson for anything short of a Ricky Williams plus sized haul (like 2 hole drafts worth of picks, including #1 or #2 overall picks) and even then it's probably not a great trade. Still, Houston has shown that they are dumb, and so who knows IF it will happen. I do know that if NE ends up with him it will suck. If the Texans don’t make that trade, how do the next couple years look for them? Do you think Deshaun Watson will still be in one piece when they finally get out of the hole BoB dug for them? I think they need to do something radical to change the trajectory of the franchise... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: Thank you. BUT for the record, if he was promised to have a sit down with a candidate, that should be honored. Once again though, he's a player and at what point does this end? If he gives his opinion on a candidate and that candidate does not get selected, then what? I'm sorry but IMHO there has to be a line drawn. Then he at least felt heard and that he had a chance to contribute. There is a great concept in business (and even personal) communication called "Disagree and Commit". Both/All sides get to say their piece and then the person in charge makes the final decision. And if it doesnt go your way, you at least know you were heard and considered, and you will commit to whatever that final decision is. I think that is all Deshaun wanted after Ownership said they would. But they didnt even give hm the chance. That is incredibly insulting and demeaning to anyone, regardless of their place in the chain. To tell them you'll listen to them and then ignore them. Would have been better off not looping him in at all. The other rub is, it is being reported Houston Ownership hired a consulting firm like the Pegulas did, were handed a list of candidates, and then ignored THAT list as well. Not a good look. I wouldnt be happy working for people like that either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, mannc said: If the Texans don’t make that trade, how do the next couple years look for them? Do you think Deshaun Watson will still be in one piece when they finally get out of the hole BoB dug for them? I think they need to do something radical to change the trajectory of the franchise... I disagree slightly with this. I think 2021 will be tough but 2022 they have 9 picks and only Watson and Howard with any guaranteed money on the cap. It is a completely blank sheet of paper to rebuild from and you have the most important piece in place. With solid decision making it needn't be a long rebuild in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree slightly with this. I think 2021 will be tough but 2022 they have 9 picks and only Watson and Howard with any guaranteed money on the cap. It is a completely blank sheet of paper to rebuild from and you have the most important piece in place. With solid decision making it needn't be a long rebuild in Houston. Fair enough, but you're talking about two more years in the wilderness with an unhappy franchise QB who has a limited number of years of high productivity, who's not very big, and who has taken quite a beating in his first four years in the league. I think Watson has the ability to force their hand, if he wants to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 29 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: Thank you. BUT for the record, if he was promised to have a sit down with a candidate, that should be honored. Once again though, he's a player and at what point does this end? If he gives his opinion on a candidate and that candidate does not get selected, then what? I'm sorry but IMHO there has to be a line drawn. It starts and ends with the owner keeping his word and not alienating his top employee. That’s it. You bending over backwards trying to find a slippery slope isn’t fooling anyone. There isn’t one in this case. The owner (again, allegedly) went back on his word. He’s an imbecile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said: It starts and ends with the owner keeping his word and not alienating his top employee. That’s it. You bending over backwards trying to find a slippery slope isn’t fooling anyone. There isn’t one in this case. The owner (again, allegedly) went back on his word. He’s an imbecile. "You bending over backwards trying to find a slippery slope isn’t fooling anyone"? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, mannc said: Fair enough, but you're talking about two more years in the wilderness with an unhappy franchise QB who has a limited number of years of high productivity, who's not very big, and who has taken quite a beating in his first four years in the league. I think Watson has the ability to force their hand, if he wants to. Oh he absolutely can force their hand but to do it this year I think he would have to make a very big noise. And then you get to possible trade partners. The best offers the Texans can get give them two #1s in this draft but they are in the AFC and one would presume they would much rather send him to the other conference. I think there is enough smoke in the last 24 hours that I'd revise my 0% chance of it happening this year up.... but I still think it is more than 10% likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 hours ago, No_Matter_What said: I just read similar article on NFL.com and came here to say almost exact same thing. Isn't it weird that player is unhappy that he wasn't part of the process of selecting GM? I get that Watson is an important player but why on earth should he have any word in GM hiring? Doesn't make any sense to me. He shouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I think it's possible. Depending on the new coach and GM I guess. Considering how they are in a bad position in the draft I think if a teams offers a hefty price (1st round picks etc) they could pull the trigger. If it gets to the point where he is saying he wants to get traded and some team that's sitting pretty in the draft with early 1st round picks, yeah I could see it happening. It's very likely going to take multiple 1st round picks and maybe a 2nd I would imagine and with the Texans having much of nothing for draft picks, they might get a start on rebuilding. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. Hope he doesn't end up in our division though if it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Oh he absolutely can force their hand but to do it this year I think he would have to make a very big noise. And then you get to possible trade partners. The best offers the Texans can get give them two #1s in this draft but they are in the AFC and one would presume they would much rather send him to the other conference. I think there is enough smoke in the last 24 hours that I'd revise my 0% chance of it happening this year up.... but I still think it is more than 10% likely. Well, the status quo is not acceptable. They just hired a new GM who has literally nothing to work with other than a (disgruntled) franchise QB who got them three wins this past season. They could get both the Jets' first rounders, plus one of their seconds, plus Darnold, who at least gives them something to work with at QB. Then maybe they trade down from the second overall pick and get even more premium picks. Risky, yes, but their current situation is untenable. Edited January 8, 2021 by mannc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFreddy22 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I think there is little to no chance he is traded....that would be an awful first move for the new GM unless he is getting the jags first pick and next years first pick and a second this year from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Imagine being the new hc there... "Well, the one plus is Watson" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: He shouldn't Yeah he shouldn't for the most part. But it's kinda obvious that he doesn't have trust in the owner considering how things have been the last couple years. I honestly can't blame him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: He shouldn't Then the owner shouldnt have gone out of his way to tell Watson he WOULD be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, mannc said: Well, the status quo is not acceptable. They just hired a new GM who has literally nothing to work with other than a (disgruntled) franchise QB who got them three wins this past season. They could get both the Jets' first rounders, plus one of their seconds, plus Darnold, who at least gives them something to work with at QB. Then maybe they trade down from the second overall pick and get even more premium picks. Risky, yes, but their current situation is untenable. It is not what I'd do. I would stand pat. Suffer the pain of another difficult season in 2021 and use my space to completely make over the team for 2022. But you are right that requires you to get Watson onside which is why it is vital he buys in to the Head Coach hire and the plan. If you just wanna hire whoever you want as Head Coach without Watson's input then you have to consider the trade and rebuild option. I still would send him to the NFC though if I were them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Then the owner shouldnt have gone out of his way to tell Watson he WOULD be a part of it. Not disagreeing with you on that point. They created their own problem. The point still stands. Watson should have no part in hiring a GM. Edited January 8, 2021 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 36 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: "You bending over backwards trying to find a slippery slope isn’t fooling anyone"? Seriously? “Where does it stop”.... ”A line has to be drawn somewhere”.... Your words. What would you call it? So yeah, seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: “Where does it stop”.... ”A line has to be drawn somewhere”.... Your words. What would you call it? So yeah, seriously. Obviously we have different views on this subject and most likely many other issues, football related and otherwise. As I stated earlier, if he was promised a sit down to share his thoughts and views by the owner, then that promise should have been honored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, prissythecat said: As an owner, why would you ever take input from your players (employees) on the GM selection process. Thats just silly. In the end , football is a business and owners select who they feel will serve their interests the best. 4 hours ago, No_Matter_What said: I just read similar article on NFL.com and came here to say almost exact same thing. Isn't it weird that player is unhappy that he wasn't part of the process of selecting GM? I get that Watson is an important player but why on earth should he have any word in GM hiring? Doesn't make any sense to me. 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yea I agree. Giving your franchise QB input on a coaching hire I get. They have to be able to co-exist or else you have trouble. But the GM? How often does the franchise QB actually HAVE to deal with the GM? It is not like you are gonna let Watson review your draft board...... although given he is the only good thing about the organisation at the moment maybe they should! Haha. He couldn't do worse than Billy O. I don’t necessarily disagree, but this situation is a bit of an outlier, so do I disagree here as it starts and stops with the fact it’s reported the Texans said they would consult with Watson about the GM hire and then did not keep their word. Watson has been saddled with a team whose entire demise is solely linked to the moves of their GM, coincidentally who was also their HC as O’Brien was substantially worse GM than HC. If I’m Watson, I am personally heavily interested in who they bring in as GM because I’ve watched terrible front office decisions literally take what should be a perennial playoff team with an elite QB become a 4 win team and not even have the 4th overall draft pick that comes with winning just 4 games. And if I am the Houston Texans, I am heavily invested into keeping Watson comfortable and optimistic. I’m making sure that he has confidence in where we are going and keeping my word to him. I mean, why would Watson trust this team at all after they gave that moron O’Brien all that power and didn’t fire him sooner before he could really screw them further trading guys like Hopkins? Then they promise him they would consult with him about the higher and didn’t? I’d be pissed too if I was Watson. At this point, they should be doing everything they can to regain Watson’s trust and optimism. He is their entire franchise. He is the leader of that team and the guy out on the field giving them any hope. And if I am Watson, I’m looking at the team for signs for optimism. Edited January 8, 2021 by Alphadawg7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree slightly with this. I think 2021 will be tough but 2022 they have 9 picks and only Watson and Howard with any guaranteed money on the cap. It is a completely blank sheet of paper to rebuild from and you have the most important piece in place. With solid decision making it needn't be a long rebuild in Houston. But now you’re talking 4+ years before they can start to contend again. You think Watson wants to wait 4-5 years before playing meaningful football? That for me is the big issue. Not whether Texans want to trade him, but is Watson seeing any light at the end of the tunnel sooner than that and does he want to waste that much time if not. Edited January 8, 2021 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) I just don't see how a trade makes sense for the Texans, especially since O'Brien is gone. If he was still there I could see Watson and a future 1st for Kirk Cousins and a 7th. But now? IF the Texans trade Watson, they immediately need to replace him with a top 10 QB. Assuming they were able to get the Jets pick, for example, and assuming Fields is there and works out well, they basically hope to eventually break even, once Fields develops. Look at it this way: the Texans have a million dollars, and they would be investing that million for a CHANCE at a million. All risk, little upside. Edited January 8, 2021 by TheFunPolice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, Alphadawg7 said: But know you’re talking 4+ years before they can start to contend again. You think Watson wants to wait 4-5 years before laying meaningful football? That for me is the big issue. Not whether Texans want to trade him, but is Watson seeing any light at the end of the tunnel sooner than that and does he want to waste that much time if not. I don't think you are. I think they can be good in 2022. Maybe Superbowl good, yes... maybe 4 years... but I think that with good decision making they can be a playoff team again in 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I don’t necessarily disagree, but this situation is a bit of an outlier, so do I disagree here as it starts and stops with the fact it’s reported the Texans said they would consult with Watson about the GM hire and then did not keep their word. Watson has been saddled with a team whose entire demise is solely linked to the moves of their GM, coincidentally who was also their HC as O’Brien was substantially worse GM than HC. If I’m Watson, I am personally heavily interested in who they bring in as GM because I’ve watched terrible front office decisions literally take what should be a perennial playoff team with an elite QB become a 4 win team and not even have the 4th overall draft pick that comes with winning just 4 games. And if I am the Houston Texans, I am heavily invested into keeping Watson comfortable and optimistic. I’m making sure that he has confidence in where we are going and keeping my word to him. I mean, why would Watson trust this team at all after they gave that moron O’Brien all that power and didn’t fire him sooner before he could really screw them further trading guys like Hopkins? The they promise him they would consult with him about the hurler and didn’t? I’d be pissed too if I was Watson. At this point, they should be doing everything they can to regain Watson’s trust and optimism. He is their entire franchise. He is the leader of that team and the guy out on the field giving them any hope. And if I am Watson, I’m looking at the team for signs for optimism. Agree with all this. Here's another thing to think about: Watson is not some loose cannon knucklehead like Cam Newton; he is highly respected and by all accounts, a great guy and an ultimate team guy. If the Texans screw over a guy like Watson, it makes them look even worse than they already do. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Texans are easily the worst opening right now. Toxic culture, a seemingly untrustworthy Easterby (the former team chaplain) running the show, no draft picks, disgruntled star QB. We've seen the importance of culture and morale on winning. Houston is a mess, and it doesn't sound like it is getting better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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