Magox Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 24 minutes ago, ganesh said: They could trade out of that 3rd pick (for a QB needy team) for a bounty of 1st and 2nd round picks and build a lot of talent around Tua. The Dolphins will be a tough team next season Personally, I think they have to see it through until they have come to the conclusion that he is not a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I still think Ryan is more likely to be moved despite the cap implications because I think Atlanta are genuinely at the stage where the right play is complete tear down. Detroit can have another Stafford rebuild. If Ryan becomes available he goes to San Fran. $50M (in dead cap) is a lot to incur. Especially when the player is still playing well. Again get a new HC and see what he can do with him. 38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think Stafford, if he becomes available, will go where he thinks he can win. He has his money, he has his stats, where can he go that gives him a shot of a playoff run or two? You look at New England's roster and go "well not there" but then they have Bill. I personally don't think Stafford will be on the market as it happens. But if he is I think New England is very much in play. Not unless they get some players around him. Which will be tough for them. There aren’t a whole lot of options in FA. Edited January 6, 2021 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, Doc said: $50M (in dead cap) is a lot to incur. Especially when the player is still playing well. Again get a new HC and see what he can do with him. Not unless they get some players around him. Which will be tough for them. There aren’t a whole lot of options in FA. On Ryan.... I just think while he is playing well there are so many holes on that team and it has so much psychological baggage. I'd burn it to the ground and start again if I was hired as GM. On Stafford.... if he does come available (I repeat I don't think he will) where does he go? Is Carolina more attractive than New England? Not for me. Denver? Now that is possible. The Saints possibly? Sure. But New England would be in play I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rk_Bills86 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 We'll have to see how well Tua can do with a new OC - but for what it's worth and what i've seen: 1) Can he throw to the right beyond the hash? Looks great throwing to the left (as a lefty) and looks terrible throwing to the right on anything over 5 yards... 2) Can he move in the pocket to extend plays and make the dump offs if he doesn't have a run/escape lane? 3) Can he actually be success in a real NFL offensive system? Yes he has a winning record as a starter, but as teams got more film on him, the more there were able to corral and limit him. Was it just the rookie knowledge gap or is he already at his cap? After years of watching Bills QBs of all different types, my bet would be he is at best a serviceable backup level QB. Doesn't mean he can't improve but he has a clear limitation on his tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I’m a Bills fan, and I approve this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think this is it. They should evaluate the guys that might be there for them at #3. But I don't think a) we have seen the best of Tua yet, or b) there is necessarily anything better there at #3. So it might be that what you have is a Jared Goff type guy who is somewhere around the middle of the league and you can put maximum pieces around him while he is cheap and contend. That might give you a narrower window than the Bills have with Josh Allen but not everyone can have a top 4 or 5 Quarterback. And there are years when the team that wins the Superbowl doesn't have that as well. So the Dolphins have to consider all of their options and how best to proceed for their franchise. If you get a Josh Allen or a Mahomes or even a Watson the decisions are easier. But if you get someone who is more a middle tier guy you can't just throw up your hands and concede for the next 15 years. You still have to try and win. Otherwise the argument that some in this thread are making (not you I add) when taken to its logical conclusion is there are about 22 teams in the league who should just try and tank next year. I also wonder if the Fins will try to trade for 2022 picks. I can see them trading one of their first 5 selections to get a pick in round 1-3 in 2022. I could see them shopping pick 3 to try and trade down to the 8-13 range and picking up a 2022 1st and an extra premium and mid round pick in 2021. I feel like that would allow them to try and get another bite at a top QB via trade up in 2022 having at least 1 extra pick in the first 3 rounds to help. Then again it all comes down to what trades are available but from a tactical perspective would be to try and trade down for 2022 capital that could help them load up to make a big trade up if needed or build even more around Tua if he shows progress in 2021. The Dolphins are in a good position, they have a good coach, a 10 win talent base, 5 draft picks in the first three rounds including the third overall pick and a good amount of cap space. They will be a double digit win team for the next 2-4 years. But QB is always tricky and it can sink a good run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 23 hours ago, Magox said: As they should be. He's only been an NFL QB for one year, they invested all this capital and they should surround him with talent. He's got enough tools to be a decent NFL starter if they play their cards right. Happless brought up mechanical issues because of the hip surgery and unfortunately for Tua it helps explain why he is struggling on throws that used to be routine and come natural. It has me 2nd guessing my thoughts on the whole build around Tua strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I really like that Herbert kid. Reminds me a bit of Josh Allen lolololollll... Huge, colossal, franchise altering mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo ill Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 People are very quick to condem qbs. Remember when the rest of the league/media and hall the Bills fans thought Josh Allen was bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 40 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I also wonder if the Fins will try to trade for 2022 picks. I can see them trading one of their first 5 selections to get a pick in round 1-3 in 2022. I could see them shopping pick 3 to try and trade down to the 8-13 range and picking up a 2022 1st and an extra premium and mid round pick in 2021. I feel like that would allow them to try and get another bite at a top QB via trade up in 2022 having at least 1 extra pick in the first 3 rounds to help. Then again it all comes down to what trades are available but from a tactical perspective would be to try and trade down for 2022 capital that could help them load up to make a big trade up if needed or build even more around Tua if he shows progress in 2021. The Dolphins are in a good position, they have a good coach, a 10 win talent base, 5 draft picks in the first three rounds including the third overall pick and a good amount of cap space. They will be a double digit win team for the next 2-4 years. But QB is always tricky and it can sink a good run. Would be a very sensible move. If they don't love a guy who might be there at #3 this year (and I maintain I'd do my due diligence on QBs but I'd have to love someone to take them at #3 this year after only seeing 8 or 9 games of Tua - and those games have not been tire fires except Sunday really) and there was interest in the pick, take a #1 next year to move back. That way you have another year to evaluate Tua and some capital to move up in the first in 2022 if by that time you decide he isn't your guy. There are candidates to trade up to #3 too. Carolina. Indianapolis. New England. Washington. Maybe even New Orleans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 38 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: They will be a double digit win team for the next 2-4 years. But QB is always tricky and it can sink a good run. Who? The Dolphins. Get serious. They were in the running for worst 10-6 team ever. What a fluke. And they're keeping their subpar QB after shattering any kind of confidence or development, and also bringing in another new OC. This team looks mediocre at best for the next several years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 23 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: in other news the world is round.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 As they should. He could develop into a great player. Hell after one season lots of fans thought Josh Allen was a bad QB and wouldn't develop, look at him now. If the kid puts in the work and applies himself he could be a great QB for Miami. Teams need to give these kids time to develop and they need to surround them with quality people as well as players that can help with that development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 3:14 PM, machine gun kelly said: He has a 64% completion rate and 7-3, but with help from Fitz. Remember Allen didn’t have backup to bail him out, but he did only hit 53%. I wouldn’t write off Tua at this point. At least Allen had OTA’s, and a pre-season. Tua had nothing. Im not. Tua fan, but feel like some are overreacting. How many including a thread from yesterday saying how much it bother him the bashing of Allen. Give Tua a real opportunity. I don’t thin he’ll ever be Allen, but he might be decent of their staff give him three years. Allen also wasnt passing the ball for 5 yards every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsherd Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Didn't Arizona say the same thing about Josh Rosen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 and JESTS for Gase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 9 hours ago, Yav said: As they should. He could develop into a great player. Hell after one season lots of fans thought Josh Allen was a bad QB and wouldn't develop, look at him now. If the kid puts in the work and applies himself he could be a great QB for Miami. Teams need to give these kids time to develop and they need to surround them with quality people as well as players that can help with that development. Game manager at best. They need to protect him with weapons in a quick short passing game. He neither has elite arm strength or speed/elusiveness. They have picks and will need them. Good coach. They will regret the Herbert pick as they will always be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 18 hours ago, Buffalo ill said: People are very quick to condem qbs. Remember when the rest of the league/media and hall the Bills fans thought Josh Allen was bust? Yes but most of those people didn't actually watch Allen play and improve, and didn't understand his background. Most of the analysis on Allen back then was based on his stats (especially completion percentage) and a couple of his bad plays that went viral on social media. As Bills fans we have watched a lot of Tua. I'm not just looking at a stat sheet. I've seen most of his games this year and if anything I would say he has regressed. In the Raiders and Bills games he looked completely lost, it reminded me of some of Josh Rosen's games in his rookie year. Or EJ Manuel. Generally you want to see your rookie QB improve throughout the season. That's what Allen did that gave Bills fans hope. So it is possible Tua develops into a legit starter, I just don't know what skills there are to build on. Supposedly his biggest strength coming out of college was accuracy. That has not been the case the last several times he played. I've changed the way that I look at accuracy for QB prospects. Throwing accurately at Alabama does not necessarily equate to throwing accurately in the NFL. It was the same with Baker Mayfield, supposedly one of rhe most accurate QB prospects ever but it didn't turn out that way. In the NFL you have to make split second decisions and throw the ball from muddy pockets more often than not. That means you can't always rely on perfect mechanics like you can at power football colleges. Allen has become an elite QB in part because hs fixed his mechanics, but also because he is naturally gifted at making accurate throws off platform as a result of his natural athleticism and strength. I don't see a lot of potential for Tua to improve in that area enough to become a QB you can win with at the pro level. I also think like Manuel he has "slow eyes" and doesn't process the field fast enough to make quick decisions that can make up for middling arm strength. Again, playing at Alabama it's not a skill he needed. Allen never had a problem processing the field, he just needed time to learn NFL defenses and stop making stupid decisions in the moment. I think even more than his lack of arm strength, this will be the career killer for Tua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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