JohnNord Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 56 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: He has a 64% completion rate and 7-3, but with help from Fitz. Remember Allen didn’t have backup to bail him out, but he did only hit 53%. I wouldn’t write off Tua at this point. At least Allen had OTA’s, and a pre-season. Tua had nothing. Im not. Tua fan, but feel like some are overreacting. How many including a thread from yesterday saying how much it bother him the bashing of Allen. Give Tua a real opportunity. I don’t thin he’ll ever be Allen, but he might be decent of their staff give him three years. The difference is the readiness of the QB’s. Allen was an inexperienced project QB from a small college football program who never faced top-notch competition. Tua comes from the biggest college football program in the world and was thought of to be “pro ready.” The ceiling for Tua is nowhere near as high as Josh’s was. Bad comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Flores clarified: ”Tua is our starter at QB. But we plan on using the #3 pick on our “closer” QB.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 55 minutes ago, spartacus said: comparing Josh and Tua is just a bit misleading the entire Miami offense was designed for Tua to throw almost all of his passes no more than 5 yards downfield this is the Chan Gailey offense If you ask Miami fans, Chan is refusing to call plays to Tua’s stengths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Can't blame the Dolphins. They spent the #5 overall pick on Tua, and it's way too early to give up on that kind of investment. At the same time, the NFL seems to go through stages. And we seem to be entering a stage where QBs like Tua (a.k.a. game-managers with good accuracy but average arm strength) are being outgunned by the mega athletes who can avoid the rush and make throws all over the field. Arguably the best three QBs in the league this year were Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen. At the same time, the Chiefs, Packers and Bills were arguably the best three teams in the NFL, and at this time probably the biggest Super Bowl favorites. Russell Wilson was not far behind those guys. And if the Texans had been better as a team, Deshaun Watson probably would be in MVP talks as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Tough call. I can see the Dolphins being like the Bills during the drought years. Tough out but never winning more than 9 games but always winning at least a 6. They may not get 3rd overall pick for a long time unless they tank. If Fields is available they have to seriously think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Magox said: As they should be. He's only been an NFL QB for one year, they invested all this capital and they should surround him with talent. He's got enough tools to be a decent NFL starter if they play their cards right. Unless he regains some arm strength they are going to need to petition the league for a pitcher’s mound. They can headline it the Peterman Petition. Sign here, help your quarterback throw out breaking routes. I bet the Ravens WR will show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I think Tua still has a chance though would be worried on what I have seen that his ceiling might be a kind of a peak Alex Smith or Andy Dalton. I think generally he is accurate but he is too safe as a decision make and I don't know where the special is. If I was Grier I would say that too (Steve Keim said exactly the same in his season ending presser after Rosen's rookie year) but I would still evaluate the QBs who might be there at #3 properly. It would depend on how I felt about them as to what I would do. I don't think Tua has been so bad that you have no hope for him and have to move on but he hasn't been so good that you just ignore the QBs who could be there for you with a top 3 pick. If they do go with Tua I think they need an upgrade at center (I wonder if the Oklahoma kid would be an option with Miami's own 1st rounder) to help call protections and diagnose the rush and they need a receiver who can be college open in the NFL. If they don't go QB at #3 then Ja'Marr Chase is a lock you would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 The thing that I see with Tua, from watching him this versus his time at Alabama, is a difference in his arm strength. I know they say he's 100% healed from the hip injury, but I wonder if it hasn't affected his ability to drive the football? His mechanics in many instances have looked horrid this year as well. Maybe he just has some technical flaws he has to work out? Or maybe he really is a different QB after the injury? Whatever it is, I don't get that vibe that he has that "it" factor which goes into a Franchise QB. When Josh stepped on the field as a rookie, flaws and all, you could see the energy he brought to the team as a whole. The vibe was completely different. You saw flashes of greatness even in the midst of the learning curve. I don't get that feel or really see that with Tua. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, H2o said: The thing that I see with Tua, from watching him this versus his time at Alabama, is a difference in his arm strength. I know they say he's 100% healed from the hip injury, but I wonder if it hasn't affected his ability to drive the football? His mechanics in many instances have looked horrid this year as well. Maybe he just has some technical flaws he has to work out? Or maybe he really is a different QB after the injury? Whatever it is, I don't get that vibe that he has that "it" factor which goes into a Franchise QB. When Josh stepped on the field as a rookie, flaws and all, you could see the energy he brought to the team as a whole. The vibe was completely different. You saw flashes of greatness even in the midst of the learning curve. I don't get that feel or really see that with Tua. Reporters in Miami actually said the same thing about not having the “it” factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 My guess, and again, I’m not against the criticism of Tua, as he is a rookie with a serious hip injury that looks like the experts seeing him needing to improve his hip movement, but they spent $235.8 mil.on free agents, and had 11 picks as they purged good talent (see Tunstill as an example). Now they still have some $ even is a Covid world, amd another 10 picks. All that rebuilding new talent came with no OTA’s, pre-season, etc. Just don’t be surprised if they look better next year when Flores can get them metaphorically rowing together. I’ve said on this board multiple times they would improve during the year. They are not in the Bills stratosphere, nor will they be even next year, but eventually they will improve. Im out. I tried to invest some take a little time before forming an opinion, but people seem pretty invested on him. You’re guys right and no worries. Have fun as nothing said will change until next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 minute ago, H2o said: The thing that I see with Tua, from watching him this versus his time at Alabama, is a difference in his arm strength. I know they say he's 100% healed from the hip injury, but I wonder if it hasn't affected his ability to drive the football? His mechanics in many instances have looked horrid this year as well. Maybe he just has some technical flaws he has to work out? Or maybe he really is a different QB after the injury? Whatever it is, I don't get that vibe that he has that "it" factor which goes into a Franchise QB. When Josh stepped on the field as a rookie, flaws and all, you could see the energy he brought to the team as a whole. The vibe was completely different. You saw flashes of greatness even in the midst of the learning curve. I don't get that feel or really see that with Tua. The two games where I thought I saw them were Arizona and Kansas City and it was Tua's poise in those games that stood out the most. But is that enough of a differentiator to make a guy special? Not sure. The one thing I am sure about is job 1 is rebuild the confidence that can't have helped but take a knock with the way they have jerked him about down the stretch. I think I'd fire Gailey too. Not sure the spread is what I want Tua running. I'd like to see him in much more of a west coast scheme - possibly a Shanahan varient where they do a lot of play action off the run and utilise his accuracy and touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 What were you expecting, The Dolphins GM to admit he is gives up on a rookie QB? probably get fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, mjt328 said: Can't blame the Dolphins. They spent the #5 overall pick on Tua, and it's way too early to give up on that kind of investment. At the same time, the NFL seems to go through stages. And we seem to be entering a stage where QBs like Tua (a.k.a. game-managers with good accuracy but average arm strength) are being outgunned by the mega athletes who can avoid the rush and make throws all over the field. Arguably the best three QBs in the league this year were Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen. At the same time, the Chiefs, Packers and Bills were arguably the best three teams in the NFL, and at this time probably the biggest Super Bowl favorites. Russell Wilson was not far behind those guys. And if the Texans had been better as a team, Deshaun Watson probably would be in MVP talks as well. I would add Lamar Jackson and Ryan Tannehill (can't believe I'm saying this) to that list. Watson has no one to throw to but he's a dangerous QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Bray Wyatt said: So they could draft a qb and let him sit and learn behind Tua 😄 MIA has high draft position, so this is definite possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The two games where I thought I saw them were Arizona and Kansas City and it was Tua's poise in those games that stood out the most. But is that enough of a differentiator to make a guy special? Not sure. The one thing I am sure about is job 1 is rebuild the confidence that can't have helped but take a knock with the way they have jerked him about down the stretch. I think I'd fire Gailey too. Not sure the spread is what I want Tua running. I'd like to see him in much more of a west coast scheme - possibly a Shanahan varient where they do a lot of play action off the run and utilise his accuracy and touch. The KC game he stepped up against a top tier team. I'll give him that one. That one throw they keep showing highlights of to Gesicki was a fluke play though. The ball was deflected by the DB and kudos to Gesicki for hanging onto it. He did show good poise in that game. Arizona, even though they beat us, really faded down the stretch though. I don't really count that one for much. If they didn't have Fitz they are at best an 8-8 squad. In Alabama he had elite college RB's, elite WR's, an elite OL, and an elite defense backing him up. His little statement about he thought the NFL would be harder really came back to bite him. To me he just doesn't look special. I, personally, think the hip injury has affected him throwing the football. Maybe he gets better over time, maybe it has caused mechanical flaws, or maybe this is just who he is? I do think you are right about the offensive system that best suits him. Maybe in the end he can at least be an Alex Smith type or a Chad Pennington, but the game will have to slow down for him a lot so he can make more anticipatory throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampton Josh fan Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Naturally with a high 1st rd choice like Tua, you can't admit to whiffing by using the 3rd pick to get a QB. The problem is the guy has warts. He looks a lot like the dreaded game manager ,who doesn't throw vertically because he's afraid of turnovers. He also doesn't move well in the pocket and is not a run threat. The worst knock on him is if he's behind, he's not bringing the team back with dunk and dunk throws. I would get a 2and and 4th and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Seems silly to give up on him this early with one exception. There’s the Rosen argument to be made, but the sample is sample is smaller and the results less disastrous. Not to mention, Tua wasn’t a consolation prize. Here’s my biggest hesitation/ thought process for even considering moving on if I’m Miami.... 1- how often do you plan on picking top 5? If you have any doubt at all, why would you risk missing that opportunity? 2- I get that he’s a rookie and the game needs to slow down, but we’re talking about someone who played at Alabama... that’s literally the NFL’s minor league. Development should be a lot faster for someone coming from that program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Dolphin-safe Tua. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, H2o said: The KC game he stepped up against a top tier team. I'll give him that one. That one throw they keep showing highlights of to Gesicki was a fluke play though. The ball was deflected by the DB and kudos to Gesicki for hanging onto it. He did show good poise in that game. Arizona, even though they beat us, really faded down the stretch though. I don't really count that one for much. If they didn't have Fitz they are at best an 8-8 squad. In Alabama he had elite college RB's, elite WR's, an elite OL, and an elite defense backing him up. His little statement about he thought the NFL would be harder really came back to bite him. To me he just doesn't look special. I, personally, think the hip injury has affected him throwing the football. Maybe he gets better over time, maybe it has caused mechanical flaws, or maybe this is just who he is? I do think you are right about the offensive system that best suits him. Maybe in the end he can at least be an Alex Smith type or a Chad Pennington, but the game will have to slow down for him a lot so he can make more anticipatory throws. The doesn't look "special" I agree completely with. I worry his ceiling is low but there have been flashes and to me the formula if they are sticking with him is upgrade the interior offensive line, get him a playmaker or two who get open (I actually like Williams, Parker and Gesicki but they are all contested catch guys and Tua clearly isn't comfortable putting the ball up in the way that Fitz is at this stage) so they need guys who get open and change the offense to something better suited to his game. I understand why theoretically the spread suited him but I think a more conventional west coast two back scheme might be more suitable for who he is at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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