NFL MVP RACE - Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, and Josh Allen

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

At the end of the day - allen has 9 picks and 9 fumbles.  These are considerably higher than rodgers (4 picks, 3 fumbles), and Mahomes (5 picks, 5 fumbles). 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

Nonsense.  Henry is a great back, but he does not belong in the MVP discussion.  Tanehill has had a very good year and the Titans have a bunch of other offensive weapons besides Henry. If Henry were out, they’d be diminished, but they’d still be a good offense.  Can’t say the same about any of the top QBs.

Look at Titans losses. When Henry is held in check, Titans lose

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Look at Titans losses. When Henry is held in check, Titans lose

Uhhhhhhh we held him in check.  They won

1 hour ago, mannc said:

He’s had a great year, but his impact is minor compared to the top QBs.  That’s just the way it is.  Titans minus Henry are still a playoff team.  The Chiefs and Bills without Mahomes/Allen are sub-.500.

I don’t know if they’re a playoff team without Henry. 

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, MDH said:

Henry was doing his thing before Tannehil took over as the starter and that team was nowhere near as good. The running game is key but it wasn’t enough by itself. And that was when they had a good D...

 

What I am saying is that like Mayfield, Tannehill cannot carry a team if they are not running the ball. 

 

If Cleveland or Tennessee tries to drop back every play like the Bills do with Allen or the Chiefs do with Mahomes they are not going to be effective...

 

 

[Real McClappy]

9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Look at Titans losses. When Henry is held in check, Titans lose

Bills held him down to 57 yards on 19 carries, Tanney was Montana that night. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

They would have had no trouble beating the Bills without him, the Josh Norman evisceration not withstanding...

Surely....because our QB was coming off a rib/shoulder injury and wasn’t 💯 

 

take Henry away from the titans right now and let us face off.....you think they beat us?

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Surely....because our QB was coming off a rib/shoulder injury and wasn’t 💯 

 

take Henry away from the titans right now and let us face off.....you think they beat us?

 

The play of the defense is night and day as to hoe they were playing going into that game and how they are playing now.

 

They were clearly lost and trying to find their way then and now are back to being 95% like the D they were last year...

 

Also Allen will not be fooled by their defense anymore as shown in the SF and Denver games when they tried similar strategies...he will shred that defense.

Edited December 21, 2020 by matter2003

[NewEra]

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

The play of the defense is night and day as to hoe they were playing going into that game and how they are playing now.

 

They were clearly lost and trying to find their way then and now are back to being 95% like the D they were last year...

 

Also Allen will not be fooled by their defense anymore as shown in the SF and Denver games when they tried similar strategies...he will shred that defense.

Agree 💯 Did you see the post I was replying to?

[mannc]

22 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Look at Titans losses. When Henry is held in check, Titans lose

Maybe, just maybe, when they are trailing, they don't run the ball as much...

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Agree 💯 Did you see the post I was replying to?

 

Yep, I was adding my two cents to your reply

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Surely....because our QB was coming off a rib/shoulder injury and wasn’t 💯 

 

take Henry away from the titans right now and let us face off.....you think they beat us?

I think right now, the Bills would beat the Titans with or without Henry, but it would not be an easy game either way.  Let's put it this way, what do you think would move the betting line more in a Titans-Bills matchup, Henry being out, or Tannehill being out?  IMO, it's not even close; Tannehill out probably moves the line 6-7 points; Henry, maybe 1 or 2. 

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Henry and Hopkins. 2 most dominant offensive players who mean so much to their teams.

Hopkins does not mean enough for his team to win the division. So he means less to his team than Allen, Mahomes or Rodgers. There is a stronger argument for Henry. 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, mannc said:

I think right now, the Bills would beat the Titans with or without Henry, but it would not be an easy game either way.  Let's put it this way, what do you think would move the betting line more in a Titans-Bills matchup, Henry being out, or Tannehill being out?  IMO, it's not even close; Tannehill out probably moves the line 6-7 points; Henry, maybe 1 or 2. 

Didn’t you just say that the Titans would have no problem being the bills with or without Henry? And the line would move about the same if either player was out.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Real McNasty said:

Bills held him down to 57 yards on 19 carries, Tanney was Montana that night. 

 

Buffalo spotting them insane field position all night certainly helped the cause. 

[mannc]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

Didn’t you just say that the Titans would have no problem being the bills with or without Henry? And the line would move about the same if either player was out.  

No.  I said the Titans would have won the game earlier this year, either with or without Henry.  I think if the Bills play the Titans in the playoffs, the Bills would be slight favorites, whether or not Henry plays.  I think if Tannehill were out, the Bills would be prohibitive favorites in the playoff game.

[NewEra]

50 minutes ago, mannc said:

I think right now, the Bills would beat the Titans with or without Henry, but it would not be an easy game either way.  Let's put it this way, what do you think would move the betting line more in a Titans-Bills matchup, Henry being out, or Tannehill being out?  IMO, it's not even close; Tannehill out probably moves the line 6-7 points; Henry, maybe 1 or 2. 

I think the line would move 4-5 without Tannehill and 1-2 without Henry.  Simply because the position matters so much.  It’s much easier to replace a RB than a QB based on the position they play.  But saying that is like saying no other position can EVER win the MVP.  QB is the most important position by far.

 

the line would change more for Goff missing the game as opposed to Aaron Donald missing the game.....but Donald is the mvp on that team.  There is no question 

[BigDingus]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

MVP is a simple stat award. Josh Allen has a chance. This isn't a 2 man race. 

 

1 - Aaron Rodgers: 11 wins, 43 Total TD'S, 3954 Total Yards

 

2 - Patrick Mahomes: 13 wins, 38 Total TD'S, 4749 Total Yards

 

3 - Josh Allen: 11 wins, 39 Total TD'S (1 Rec TD😁), 4395 Total Yards ( 12 Rec Yards😁) 

 

THANK YOU for bringing up the receiving TD lol

I was beginning to think people forgot about that 🤣

I think you should bring up comp% too because that is one of the most telling signs of Josh's growth.

Rodgers: 69.6%

Allen: 68.7%

Mahomes: 67.3%

That-a-boy Josh!

[mannc]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think the line would move 4-5 without Tannehill and 1-2 without Henry.  Simply because the position matters so much.  It’s much easier to replace a RB than a QB based on the position they play.  But saying that is like saying no other position can EVER win the MVP.  QB is the most important position by far.

 

the line would change more for Goff missing the game as opposed to Aaron Donald missing the game.....but Donald is the mvp on that team.  There is no question 

Donald is the outstanding player on that team (although Jalen Ramsey can make a case, as well), but that doesn't make him the most valuable.  The Rams still have a pretty good defense even without Donald.  I don't know who the Rams' backup QB is, but you're probably right that Goff being out would sway the line more than Ramsey or Donald being out. If Goff's backup proves himself to be competent, that might not be the case. 

 

But yeah, I think it's absurd for anyone other than a QB to win Most Valuable Player.  The only exception I can think of would be OJ Simpson in 1973, which is the type of anomaly that will never happen again.  That year, Simpson had almost 2100 yards from scrimmage, while the Bills as a team passed for less than 1000 yards.  He was their entire offense.  Henry has nowhere near that sort of impact for the Titans, who have a good passing attack, as well.     

Edited December 21, 2020 by mannc

[clayboy54]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

MVP is a simple stat award. Josh Allen has a chance. This isn't a 2 man race. 

 

1 - Aaron Rodgers: 11 wins, 43 Total TD'S, 3954 Total Yards

 

2 - Patrick Mahomes: 13 wins, 38 Total TD'S, 4749 Total Yards

 

3 - Josh Allen: 11 wins, 39 Total TD'S (1 Rec TD😁), 4395 Total Yards ( 12 Rec Yards😁) 

It is not a stat award. It is a popularity contest. Bills never win popularity contests.

[ogham26]

if he could have beat mahomes earlier this year he would win without a doubt

[McGahee]

It's Mahomes. He's on another level.

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, McGahee said:

It's Mahomes. He's on another level.

 

He has not been on another level from Allen the past few weeks. They've been on the same level. If you want to talk about the whole season then yes it's Mahomes because his worst games weren't as bad as Allen's, he has less turnovers, and he beat Allen head to head. But right now I would argue they both share the #1 spot with Rodgers slightly behind them.

[McGahee]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

He has not been on another level from Allen the past few weeks. They've been on the same level. If you want to talk about the whole season then yes it's Mahomes because his worst games weren't as bad as Allen's, he has less turnovers, and he beat Allen head to head. But right now I would argue they both share the #1 spot with Rodgers slightly behind them.

Oh, I didn't know we were discussing 2 week MVP, lol. My bad. In that case, I'd go with Derrick henry.

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, mannc said:

Donald is the outstanding player on that team (although Jalen Ramsey can make a case, as well), but that doesn't make him the most valuable.  The Rams still have a pretty good defense even without Donald.  I don't know who the Rams' backup QB is, but you're probably right that Goff being out would sway the line more than Ramsey or Donald being out. If Goff's backup proves himself to be competent, that might not be the case. 

 

But yeah, I think it's absurd for anyone other than a QB to win Most Valuable Player.  The only exception I can think of would be OJ Simpson in 1973, which is the type of anomaly that will never happen again.  That year, Simpson had almost 2100 yards from scrimmage, while the Bills as a team passed for less than 1000 yards.  He was their entire offense.  Henry has nowhere near that sort of impact for the Titans, who have a good passing attack, as well.     

I’m not saying Henry is the MVP.  
 

I’m saying that the Qb positions has, by far, more influence on the game than any other position. That’s why it affects the betting lines so much when the starting qb is out. 
 

I’m agreeing with you to an extent. However....I wouldn’t agree that The QB is the MVP of every team.  Not every QB is good enough.  Including Goff.  Donald is their team MVP.  I don’t think it’s even close. Ramsey is great.  He doesn’t have the same impact on the game as Aaron Donald does.  
 

Replace Goff with Fitzpatrick, you’ll get similar results. Why? Because Goff isn’t an impact QB.  He just plays the most impactful position. 

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Depends.  Jackson didn't have the most yards last year, even taking rushing yards into account.  He also had a poor completion percentage.

 

But if Josh doesn't win it, no biggee.  He's just as good as them.

??????

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m not saying Henry is the MVP.  
 

I’m saying that the Qb positions has, by far, more influence on the game than any other position. That’s why it affects the betting lines so much when the starting qb is out. 
 

I’m agreeing with you to an extent. However....I wouldn’t agree that The QB is the MVP of every team.  Not every QB is good enough.  Including Goff.  Donald is their team MVP.  I don’t think it’s even close. Ramsey is great.  He doesn’t have the same impact on the game as Aaron Donald does.  
 

Replace Goff with Fitzpatrick, you’ll get similar results. Why? Because Goff isn’t an impact QB.  He just plays the most impactful position. 

I think we are in agreement.  An average or below average QB like Darnold or Lock or Wentz is rarely going to be his team's most valuable player because he's not really bringing much to the table and he's not helping them win games that they wouldn't win anyway with a backup.  So yeah, QB is the most important position on the field, but not every QB is his team's MVP.  I don't see any way a non-QB could win league MVP now, although I suppose maybe a totally dominant WR could make a case.      

[Doc]

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

??????

 

My bad.  Was thinking of rookie year completion percentage.

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, mannc said:

I think we are in agreement.  An average or below average QB like Darnold or Lock or Wentz is rarely going to be his team's most valuable player because he's not really bringing much to the table and he's not helping them win games that they wouldn't win anyway with a backup.  So yeah, QB is the most important position on the field, but not every QB is his team's MVP.  I don't see any way a non-QB could win league MVP now, although I suppose maybe a totally dominant WR could make a case.      

If the titans were to win 13+ games and rush for 2000 and 15+ TDs,.  If the Vikings D were to play like they were 4 years ago, Dalvin Cook would be in the mix if they won 13+ games.  Peterson did it. In 1012 iirc.  It’s just even more difficult right now for two reasons imo.  1-QB play is getting even better than ever before. 2- there aren’t too many teams are looking to build their offense around the running game in a league that caters its rules to helping the pass game succeed.  

 

[BillsPride12]

Just the fact that Josh is in the conversation for MVP with Mahomes and Rodgers in Year 3 already is a huge victory in itself!  He probably won't actually win it this year but his time will come.  His rapid progression has been through the charts when you think about the narrative on him in Years 1 and 2.

 

Don't forget that there were BILLS fans going into this season that were still questioning if he was the real deal or not.  

[mannc]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If the titans were to win 13+ games and rush for 2000 and 15+ TDs,.  If the Vikings D were to play like they were 4 years ago, Dalvin Cook would be in the mix if they won 13+ games.  Peterson did it. In 1012 iirc.  It’s just even more difficult right now for two reasons imo.  1-QB play is getting even better than ever before. 2- there aren’t too many teams are looking to build their offense around the running game in a league that caters its rules to helping the pass game succeed.  

 

And many run-heavy teams, like Cleveland or the Ravens, don't use one back to shoulder the whole load.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

We play New England on Monday night.  If Josh puts on a show he could sweep in and snag the award.