GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Da webster guy said: Yeah they both look amazing. Dont know which i'd rather have but Herbert has a better surrounding cast. They could both end up being franchise guys for sure. Heard a radio guy say Burrow sitting out the rest of this season might help more than it seems now that he can observe and learn from a different perspective and next year they can protect him better and sign some WR's. The Bungles should start by trying to sign an offensive line. Come to think of it that is still Miami's biggest issue too. Chubb feasted on them yesterday. When they have Williams back then Williams - Parker - Gesicki isn't the worst set of receiving weapons in the world.... probably two #2 receivers and a tight end who is a bit one dimensional but they can all play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: The Bungles should start by trying to sign an offensive line. Come to think of it that is still Miami's biggest issue too. Chubb feasted on them yesterday. When they have Williams back then Williams - Parker - Gesicki isn't the worst set of receiving weapons in the world.... probably two #2 receivers and a tight end who is a bit one dimensional but they can all play. Like I said yesterday immediately after Burrow went down at this stage they are virtually locked to take OT Penei Sewell with 3rd pick in 2021 draft. I have no idea about college but I guess he must be really good. They might be even lucky to take him after some trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Look - I am not going to going to try and argue what type of QB Tua will be long term. He has a quick release and some nice short/mid range accuracy, but his throws currently lack the velocity needed. He has some anticipation and some recognition, but like many rookies - he is struggling against pressure and combo patterns and right now he will not make a throw into coverages for fear of the Int. All of that was fine when you were the best athlete and your RBs and WRs were significantly better than your opponents- meaning guys were open and reads were easier. This is the NFL and that is no longer the case and what we have seen is he struggles to move the team consistently when the defense and special teams are not teeing up scores. What I do not know is how he is willing to work or his desire and compete level. I watched Josh Allen make a ton of mistakes, but learn and adapt and you can see each off season how much work he puts in. Compare that to a guy like Baker Mayfield that did not put in that effort and has really not improved. This level of desire is impossible for fans to know and the best example is a jerk of a QB in Brady. When the Pats originally went to Brady after Bledsoe recovered - I thought great - this guy does not have the arm to be a full time NFL QB and I thought long term Bledsoe would of ended up being the better QB, but the level of competitiveness was just not measurable and that is where I am on Tua. Until we see if he has the desire to get significantly better and take his craft to the next level - this is all just base lining for me. Right now Fitz is the better QB and more prepared, but the Dolphins are not winning anything with him - they need a next level to move on. The last thing I will say is the benching does not matter long term if Flores handles things correctly in the locker room. Tua knows he was not good and they all know they need AFC wins badly because of their division and conference record. It is not just about the division, but getting to the playoffs and it may come down to a bunch of tiebreakers. If that benching throws off Tua’s mind set to the point he struggles - then he is not the QB you want leading your team. If Flores addresses the team and basically is honest - they will be ok (we saw it in Buffalo). What would worry me if I was a Dolphin fan is that repeatedly when the change was made - NFL reporters pointed out that this was not necessarily Flores decision to bench Fitz and go with Tua, but came from management. If that is the case and the players believe that - this benching could have a longer impact because the team and the players know that Flores believes Fitz is better overall. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Jaraxxus said: Alabama QBs gonna Alabama QB How dare you, sir?! Robert Foster, noted TSW contributor Sky Diver, and a host of illustrious sons of the south will not allow that slur to stand! *😁 7 hours ago, Putin said: Not to crap on the kid and I know it’s still early but so far looks like Miami made a wrong choice I thought the term 'wrong choice' was reserved exclusively for the Rosen kid?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 It's funny seeing these comments after the whole board was slurping Mia all week. I kept saying, they beat 2 winning teams and had 2 defensive TD and 1 ST TD in those 2 games and a bunch of turnovers. It's not sustainable. They're a year away at least as I said all week, while many on here were giving them the East already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 12 hours ago, DollaBills said: Imagine completely crapping on Fitz and moving forward with Tua abruptly and then completely depending on Fitz to bail you out later That's like where I work and I play the role of Fitz. And Tua makes twice the money of me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 12 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: True, but.... Allen showed elite arm strength, elite athleticism and jaw dropping play ability in his first year and a half. All with Zay Jones, K. Benjamin, R. Foster, F. Gore and other stellar players LOL!!! What has Tua shown? That he can manage a game once his D/ST spots him 14 points and a short field. He's accurate and may get better with more talent but as of right now,....MEH!... Yup. The Vikings game in his second start was just a preview of what Josh was capable of. And looking back, he was not that good then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden*Wheels Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 If you need to make this decision now, you shouldn't have made the switch decision in the first place. Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: The last thing I will say is the benching does not matter long term if Flores handles things correctly in the locker room. Tua knows he was not good and they all know they need AFC wins badly because of their division and conference record. It is not just about the division, but getting to the playoffs and it may come down to a bunch of tiebreakers. If that benching throws off Tua’s mind set to the point he struggles - then he is not the QB you want leading your team. If Flores addresses the team and basically is honest - they will be ok (we saw it in Buffalo). What would worry me if I was a Dolphin fan is that repeatedly when the change was made - NFL reporters pointed out that this was not necessarily Flores decision to bench Fitz and go with Tua, but came from management. If that is the case and the players believe that - this benching could have a longer impact because the team and the players know that Flores believes Fitz is better overall. This is not comparable to benching Tyrod for Peterman. The decision on Tyrod was long since made at that point.... the Bills were moving on after the 2017 season, whatever happened. This is different. They went away from the guy they now have to tie their future to. The reason you don't do that is the same reason that even when he was sinking against the Chargers in the wildcard round John Harbaugh didn't pull Lamar to go to Flacco. It is the reason why Tom Coughlin let Eli Manning play through looking utterly horrible (far worse than Tua looked yesterday) and cost them a playoff berth. When you go to your QB of the future you have to go to them and be all in for good or bad. The moment you pull them you send a message to the rest of that organisation that is "man we are not sure about this guy." That is hard for a Quarterback to come back from. It isn't about Tua's mental state so much as it is about the message that sends to everyone else in the building. I'm trying to think about an example of a guy who has come back from that and frankly I am struggling. Alex Smith was benched a few times in San Francisco and recovered to be a serviceable starter for a year or two before being benched again for Kap. That is the closest I can get. You just don't do it. It was a horrible coaching mistake from a guy I really like as a coach. Edited November 23, 2020 by GunnerBill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 If Miami can hit on this upcoming draft with all their extra picks from The Great Unload move last year, they will be tough, but as we know all too well. If you aint got the QB, you aint got the playoff wins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 He's averaging 140 yards passing per game, 6 TDs, 0 INTs. Might be a bit early to call him a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Not a good look for Miami. I understand why Flores did it though. It’s either going to make him stronger or mess with his head. Either way, I’ll be happy I don’t have to hear how awesome Tua is this week. He’s been way overrated by the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: This is not comparable to benching Tyrod for Peterman. The decision on Tyrod was long since made at that point.... the Bills were moving on after the 2017 season, whatever happened. This is different. They went away from the guy they now have to tie their future to. The reason you don't do that is the same reason that even when he was sinking against the Chargers in the wildcard round John Harbaugh didn't pull Lamar to go to Flacco. It is the reason why Tom Coughlin let Eli Manning play through looking utterly horrible (far worse than Tua looked yesterday) and cost them a playoff berth. When you go to your QB of the future you have to go to them and be all in for good or bad. The moment you pull them you send a message to the rest of that organisation that is "man we are not sure about this guy." That is hard for a Quarterback to come back from. It isn't about Tua's mental state so much as it is about the message that sends to everyone else in the building. I'm trying to think about an example of a guy who has come back from that and frankly I am struggling. Alex Smith was benched a few times in San Francisco and recovered to be a serviceable starter for a year or two before being benched again for Kap. That is the closest I can get. You just don't do it. It was a horrible coaching mistake from a guy I really like as a coach. If the rumor's true that it wasn't Flores' decision to start Tua in the first place, then this might be a message he's perfectly okay with sending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I certainly wouldn't mind if Miami ends up stuck at the starting QB position again. Fitz is not going to last forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 This begins phase 2 of the Fitz cycle... acceleration of fan base and team polarization. whah ha ha ha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 9 hours ago, Da webster guy said: Yeah they both look amazing. Dont know which i'd rather have but Herbert has a better surrounding cast. They could both end up being franchise guys for sure. Heard a radio guy say Burrow sitting out the rest of this season might help more than it seems now that he can observe and learn from a different perspective and next year they can protect him better and sign some WR's. Josh has referred to his rookie injury and chance to watch and learn as a "blessing in disguise". Could be same for Burrows. Though couldn't the Bengals have done somewhat better than Ryan Finley as backup QB? I think Tua is still coming back from his hip injury and is playing a bit scared. He may be better than he appears at present, but that just makes the decision to start him partway through the season all the more puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: If the rumor's true that it wasn't Flores' decision to start Tua in the first place, then this might be a message he's perfectly okay with sending. Possible. But still bad timing IMO. If Flores doesn't think Tua is the guy he needs to let that play out so that it is overwhelmingly obvious by the time they are transacting Houston's top 10 pick. Pulling him and throwing Fitz in to put him back in next week is still a mistake in my mind even I start from a position where Flores is unconvinced that Tua is either ready, or indeed, the long term guy. There is no scenario where I can talk myself into believing that was the right decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Possible. But still bad timing IMO. If Flores doesn't think Tua is the guy he needs to let that play out so that it is overwhelmingly obvious by the time they are transacting Houston's top 10 pick. Pulling him and throwing Fitz in to put him back in next week is still a mistake in my mind even I start from a position where Flores is unconvinced that Tua is either ready, or indeed, the long term guy. There is no scenario where I can talk myself into believing that was the right decision. I'm with Gunner on this. I read this and thought OK, what if @BADOLBILZ is correct that the decision to pull Tua was based in part on concern for his hip? His mobility does still seem limited, and he was taking a pounding. But then I come to, if that's where you are, why 1) put him back the next week in NY, where the stadium has had questions raised about its turf quality and seen a number of injuries and 2) Gregg-o Williams runs a notoriously dirty ship? So I got to say the sequence start-pull during game-reinsert as starter for next week makes no sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm with Gunner on this. I read this and thought OK, what if @BADOLBILZ is correct that the decision to pull Tua was based in part on concern for his hip? His mobility does still seem limited, and he was taking a pounding. But then I come to, if that's where you are, why 1) put him back the next week in NY, where the stadium has had questions raised about its turf quality and seen a number of injuries and 2) Gregg-o Williams runs a notoriously dirty ship? So I got to say the sequence start-pull during game-reinsert as starter for next week makes no sense to me. If he isn't healthy he shouldn't be out there. That is first and foremost obviously. But as you say it still doesn't get you to a point where this sequence is sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Possible. But still bad timing IMO. If Flores doesn't think Tua is the guy he needs to let that play out so that it is overwhelmingly obvious by the time they are transacting Houston's top 10 pick. Pulling him and throwing Fitz in to put him back in next week is still a mistake in my mind even I start from a position where Flores is unconvinced that Tua is either ready, or indeed, the long term guy. There is no scenario where I can talk myself into believing that was the right decision. Well, in this rumored scenario, we're back to point where Flores is still trying to win games despite the owner's mandate to start Tua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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