TBN Jim Kubiak on Allen in Cardinals game

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

And Russell Wilson (widely considered the best, 2nd best or 3rd best QB in the league) has 10 to Allens 7.  Allen also leads the NFL in passing yards, has no run game, and forced to throw constantly making it easier for teams defend when they don't have to fear the run.  

 

And lets be real...Allen really only threw 5 that can be truly put on him.  The Kroft INT was the biggest BS call of the season, wasn't really an INT and the other one was Roberts fault.  

 

 

Fair points on Stafford and Ryan, I still lack the confidence in them when the game is on the line, but maybe that is more their teams than them individually.  

I think Stafford delivers a LOT, but then the Lions D will give up some crazy play to Aaron Rodgers on the last play of the game (it's happened more than once!). Did you see the end of the first Lions game this season? Stafford delivered a perfect strike for a TD in the last seconds against Chicago ... but the RB dropped it despite it hitting him right in the freaking hands! And don't forget that Calvin Johnson play that was ruled an incompletion! It would have been a last second victory for Detroit. Stafford is a snakebitten QB but a good one, and he plays clutch when the game is on the line. He is simply cursed because he plays for the Lions. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

People forget that Russel Wilson and other great QB's throw picks too, miss seeing guys open, etc.  Sometimes it feels like (not this thread or this article, but this board I am referencing) people have this expectation that Allen is only good if he is perfect.  Its maddening at times.  But it is fair to critique what he did right and what he didn't do right like it is with all players.  But some other posters around here just seem to think Allen should be perfect and isn't allowed to make a mistake without again questioning his potential.  Some here are even saying he has already peaked.  

 

Its not about will he make a mistake, because he will as all of the greats do...its how does he bounce back and respond.  Can he have the memory of a goldfish and forget it 10 seconds later.  

 

And Josh has that in spades.  I mean lets be real here, Josh led us on yet another 4th quarter comeback for what should have been a perfect pass for game sealing win, on the very next drive after a critical INT mistake.  A fluke insane play by an elite WR took that focus away, but its those ice in the veins moments that tell you that no matter what we always have a chance in those situations.  

 

Brady has that, Montana had that, Brees has that, Wilson has that, Mahomes has that...etc.  Its a trait you can never teach, a trait that is either there or not and its rare.  Guys like Matt Ryan, Stafford, Rivers, Cousins, Goff, etc are not guys that you ever feel are clutch and will get the job done with one final play or drive.  

josh almost always scores the last time he has the ball. 

[Puckman5]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think that is spot on other than I might argue Ryan and Stafford being in the latter camp. They are actually joint 4th in fourth quarter comebacks among active players behind only Brady, Brees and Ben. Yes, they have both been in the league longer than Russ (who is 7 behind them) and longer than Mahomes who no doubt will shoot up there but they have been in less time than Rivers and Rodgers who both trail them and a significant amount less time than Brady (who is only 8 ahead in 1st) . They have also both played with some pretty horrible defences. Even this season Matt Ryan has stood on the side watching a couple of DeAndre type moments as the Falcons manage to Falcon games away. Don't think it is fair to have them as anti-clutch. They might not quite have that "man I know this guy is going to get it done" but actually they have over their careers got it done plenty. They are somewhere in the middle IMO. Not complete clutch, but not anti-clutch either.

 

But the way you come out of Sunday feeling better about Josh Allen (and bizarrely I do) is that he played a pretty bad game. Comfortably his worst of the season IMO. I even thought after the 2nd pick when it cut to him on the bench that the glazed over look made its first appearance of 2020. And yet, when it came to the final drive when we had to have it he played his best football of the day by far and his decision making was absolutely on point and the throw to Stefon Diggs was perfection.

 

As you say every Quarterback is going to have bad plays and bad games. But it is a select few who can overcome that to do what Josh did in that drive. Okay, in the end it counted for nought - but it still leaves you walking away encouraged. Our guy can play like that.... and then when the moment was biggest he can play like THAT.

 

it benefits Mahomes greatly as a QB that defenses have to worry about KC’s running game. Josh isn’t perfect, but I think he’s playing extremely well given our OL’s struggles and the lack of a running game (not to mention no competent big man to throw to).  I think he can get a team to bowl, just maybe not this team this year.   

[Punching Bag]

32 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

THE BUFFALO NEWS PAYWALL, I am determined to read this

 

 

Technically it is not a paywall but a payfence.  The difference between the two is it is very easy to slip between the slats with a common tool.

[HappyDays]

58 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

The thread is asking if we're optimistic.

 

No it isn't. What are you even talking about?

[Puckman5]

14 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

The Bills effectively chose Tre White over a generational QB. Tre is good, but Mahomes is the best QB on the planet...

Would Mahomes really be doing that much better than Josh on this Bills team?  Swap QB’a and my money would be on KC with Josh, their players and Andy Reid.  What am I missing?  Our QB play is holding us back?

[Simon]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think Stafford delivers a LOT, but then the Lions D will give up some crazy play to Aaron Rodgers on the last play of the game (it's happened more than once!). Did you see the end of the first Lions game this season? Stafford delivered a perfect strike for a TD in the last seconds against Chicago ... but the RB dropped it despite it hitting him right in the freaking hands! And don't forget that Calvin Johnson play that was ruled an incompletion! It would have been a last second victory for Detroit. Stafford is a snakebitten QB but a good one, and he plays clutch when the game is on the line. He is simply cursed because he plays for the Lions. 

 

One of my favorite quick thinking heads up plays ever:

 

Stafford's fake spike call with the sneak that 21 other guys never saw coming

 

 

[Putin]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

Mahomes still only has one pick to Allens 7. Allen has been more reckless with the ball lately...

How many ( reckless INT’s ) does R Wilson have ? 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

People forget that Russel Wilson and other great QB's throw picks too, miss seeing guys open, etc.  Sometimes it feels like (not this thread or this article, but this board I am referencing) people have this expectation that Allen is only good if he is perfect.  Its maddening at times.  But it is fair to critique what he did right and what he didn't do right like it is with all players.  But some other posters around here just seem to think Allen should be perfect and isn't allowed to make a mistake without again questioning his potential.  Some here are even saying he has already peaked.  

 

Its not about will he make a mistake, because he will as all of the greats do...its how does he bounce back and respond.  Can he have the memory of a goldfish and forget it 10 seconds later.  

 

And Josh has that in spades.  I mean lets be real here, Josh led us on yet another 4th quarter comeback for what should have been a perfect pass for game sealing win, on the very next drive after a critical INT mistake.  A fluke insane play by an elite WR took that focus away, but its those ice in the veins moments that tell you that no matter what we always have a chance in those situations.  

 

Brady has that, Montana had that, Brees has that, Wilson has that, Mahomes has that...etc.  Its a trait you can never teach, a trait that is either there or not and its rare.  Guys like Matt Ryan, Stafford, Rivers, Cousins, Goff, etc are not guys that you ever feel are clutch and will get the job done with one final play or drive.  

 

I’m very happy with the progress, we will never have perfection. 

[WideNine]

12 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

MUCH appreciate those wideviews - camera cut digs off just before the mailbox, but looks like Allen was passed that part of his read, albeit correctly or not. Sure, a completion to Knox seems possible there and he is at the sticks, but this wasn't the first and only time Josh preferred the deep route to the shallow route. Very easily could have been a first there, and at least a higher percentage of completion than the actual decision.

 

Again, hard to tell exactly but we can at least say the read progression moves left to right, and looks to be reading the stack defender on the left side, and deep safety. He moves on pretty quickly, but man he does miss those two flat-footed defenders with Diggs splitting them. Deep safety (maybe Baker?) has already reacted to Allen's windup in the first still, but even if he stays put there a well placed sideline ball is something Diggs should come away with every time. Just b/c it is Baker and can close with the best - he likely covers that 10-15 yds since he's shading the left hash, but not in time for a well placed throw. 

 

All this to say, hope they're seeing this in film this week - both the potential to Diggs, and the garbage decoy concept using an RB much less Singletary specifically.

 

Allen still struggles with bringing his eyes down to the free man underneath, he is stubbornly anti-check-down and it is an odd problem to have with so many past Bills QBs afraid to chuck the rock. Still Allen needs to improve upon seeing those outlet guys that are just shallow of the sticks because it is a win to get a fresh set of downs to live and try to score again.

 

I was trying to figure out the robber concept that Peterson was playing. In another post I had mentioned that he seemed to be playing more like a free safety at times, but the analysis by Kubiak shed some light on that. I was thinking it was just veteran savvy coming off his man or abandoning his zone much like White did in our prior game, but it appears that coming off his man was by design with how they were covering Diggs.

 

It is another growing experience. Daboll had given Allen some ways to beat the two-deep zone looks, but those ways of bringing guys free with that deep post or with crossing routes are susceptible to that robber concept and Allen who has a tendency of staring down his receivers will have to remember to discipline himself again to look off the robber/FS or go somewhere else with the ball.

 

You can kind of see the chess match of defensive strategies that teams are throwing at Allen. If we had a running game worth a spit, it would not all be on his shoulders every game and it would force those safeties to play closer to the line or teams would have to sub in their heavy-nickel type packages. If we cannot run against 4-man fronts and Allen is forced into one-dimensional games where he is throwing into 2-deep zone coverage against teams with quality defensive backs, interceptions will happen.

 

Daboll has to figure out a way to better disguise running plays - I currently feel we are somehow telegraphing our runs and teams do seem to be subbing in their run stuffing personnel on downs where we run. I like it when we start out empty with Singletary or Moss lined up as receiver then motioning them into the backfield. I think it will help our team better understand how they are playing run with their zone packages. Also, we have to tip our hats to Arizona's defensive coach for that robber concept, timed blitzes, and they even had that odd stacked defensive line look over Ike's guard spot that stuffed our runs to Dawkins side that have been pretty productive for us.

 

Some things to work on over their bye.

 

 

 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, WideNine said:

Allen still struggles with bringing his eyes down to the free man underneath, he is stubbornly anti-check-down and it is an odd problem to have with so many past Bills QBs afraid to chuck the rock. Still Allen needs to improve upon seeing those outlet guys that are just shallow of the sticks because it is a win to get a fresh set of downs to live and try to score again.

 

Brett says "Touchdowns first", coach!  😁

 

Although oddly enough, in this case he passed up the free TD to Diggs. 🤷‍♂️

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

One of my favorite quick thinking heads up plays ever:

 

Stafford's fake spike call with the sneak that 21 other guys never saw coming

 

 

Awesome play!

6 minutes ago, Putin said:

How many ( reckless INT’s ) does R Wilson have ? 

To be fair, Gene has a point. Josh A is 14th in INT percentage right now. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing.htm#passing::pass_yds, and over the past few games the rate has climbed. He does need to clean up his game in that area. 

[Alphadawg7]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think Stafford delivers a LOT, but then the Lions D will give up some crazy play to Aaron Rodgers on the last play of the game (it's happened more than once!). Did you see the end of the first Lions game this season? Stafford delivered a perfect strike for a TD in the last seconds against Chicago ... but the RB dropped it despite it hitting him right in the freaking hands! And don't forget that Calvin Johnson play that was ruled an incompletion! It would have been a last second victory for Detroit. Stafford is a snakebitten QB but a good one, and he plays clutch when the game is on the line. He is simply cursed because he plays for the Lions. 

Yeah fair points again on Stafford

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Awesome play!

What balls and brains to come with that in a split second and then pull it off to win a game.

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Awesome play!

 

That was some trickery, waving his arms around yelling at his guys to hurry up and to get set and showing the universal spike signal then the keeper for the score. 

 

Nice.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I find myself liking Jim Kubiak's stuff more and more this year.  I think he's gotten better. 

 

writing about a winner is a whole lot different than a team in a 17 year slump. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Mahomes still only has one pick to Allens 7. Allen has been more reckless with the ball lately...

He has been but Mahomes has multiple picks dropped. It evens out in the end!

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Simon said:

What balls and brains to come with that in a split second and then pull it off to win a game.

He has led the league three times in game winning drives, and in 2016 had 8. The Lions only won 9 games that season! The Lions have 4 wins now and he has 3 game winning drives. He should have 4 given that season opener too. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00.htm

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

To be fair, Gene has a point. Josh A is 14th in INT percentage right now. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing.htm#passing::pass_yds, and over the past few games the rate has climbed. He does need to clean up his game in that area. 

 

Josh would be the first to tell you that.

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Brett says "Touchdowns first", coach!  😁

 

Although oddly enough, in this case he passed up the free TD to Diggs. 🤷‍♂️

 

TBH Simon I think by the time Diggs broke open, Allen had Marcus Golden in his lap.  I don't think Diggs was his primary, but I do think if Dion manages to block him for just a fraction of a second more Allen might have seen him. 

 

That was a crap throw though, off his back foot and just poor all over.

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

That was some trickery, waving his arms around yelling at his guys to hurry up and to get set and showing the universal spike signal then the keeper for the score. 

 

Nice.

 

 

I don't think he knew he was going to do it until he actually got to the line and saw the Dallas Dfront standing around.

And he threw a couple sick dimes just to get them there in under 30 seconds.

 

Here's the whole game-winning "drive"

 

[Putin]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Awesome play!

To be fair, Gene has a point. Josh A is 14th in INT percentage right now. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing.htm#passing::pass_yds, and over the past few games the rate has climbed. He does need to clean up his game in that area. 

What happens if that Hail Mary pass does happen? 
What would we be talking about ? 
Bills being 8-2 and another AMAZING game winning drive by Josh ? Or maybe that BEAUTIFUL TD throw to Diggs ? 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Putin

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I don't think he knew he was going to do it until he actually got to the line and saw the Dallas Dfront standing around.

And he threw a couple sick dimes just to get them there in under 30 seconds.

 

Here's the whole game-winning "drive"

 

 

Seriously?  OK, then that took some nads to just go for it as your center and guards would not be blocking worth a damn.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Allen still struggles with bringing his eyes down to the free man underneath, he is stubbornly anti-check-down and it is an odd problem to have with so many past Bills QBs afraid to chuck the rock. Still Allen needs to improve upon seeing those outlet guys that are just shallow of the sticks because it is a win to get a fresh set of downs to live and try to score again.

 

I was trying to figure out the robber concept that Peterson was playing. In another post I had mentioned that he seemed to be playing more like a free safety at times, but the analysis by Kubiak shed some light on that. I was thinking it was just veteran savvy coming off his man or abandoning his zone much like White did in our prior game, but it appears that coming off his man was by design with how they were covering Diggs.

 

It is another growing experience. Daboll had given Allen some ways to beat the two-deep zone looks, but those ways of bringing guys free with that deep post or with crossing routes are susceptible to that robber concept and Allen who has a tendency of staring down his receivers will have to remember to discipline himself again to look off the robber/FS or go somewhere else with the ball.

 

You can kind of see the chess match of defensive strategies that teams are throwing at Allen. If we had a running game worth a spit, it would not all be on his shoulders every game and it would force those safeties to play closer to the line or teams would have to sub in their heavy-nickel type packages. If we cannot run against 4-man fronts and Allen is forced into one-dimensional games where he is throwing into 2-deep zone coverage against teams with quality defensive backs, interceptions will happen.

 

Daboll has to figure out a way to better disguise running plays - I currently feel we are somehow telegraphing our runs and teams do seem to be subbing in their run stuffing personnel on downs where we run. I like it when we start out empty with Singletary or Moss lined up as receiver then motioning them into the backfield. I think it will help our team better understand how they are playing run with their zone packages. Also, we have to tip our hats to Arizona's defensive coach for that robber concept, timed blitzes, and they even had that odd stacked defensive line look over Ike's guard spot that stuffed our runs to Dawkins side that have been pretty productive for us.

 

Some things to work on over their bye.

 

Great post, WideNine, thank you! 

 

Yes, I agree, that part of Kubiak's analysis about how Peterson covered us is very interesting.  If Tre is free-lancing, that's more subject to the coverage breakdowns we saw on the Moore TD as opposed to this which appears to be methodically working to create a robber.

 

We need a run game, no question.

 

One key point to remember is even with all that, we were very close to beating them.  Another key point is again to Allen: TAKE THE CHECKDOWN DAMMIT!

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Seriously?  OK, then that took some nads to just go for it as your center and guards would not be blocking worth a damn.

Exactly.

He was miked up that day and told his boys on the sideline that he was going to just clock it until he got up there and saw the situation.

 

The way Allen finished the Cards game and has finished multiple others, I can see him pulling off something similar when he's a little older.

 

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, Putin said:

What happens if that Hail Mary pass does happen? 
What would we be talking about ? 
Bills being 8-2 and another AMAZING game winning drive by Josh ? Or maybe that BEAUTIFUL TD throw to Diggs ? 

 

I'm a huge fan of Josh Allen. I'd still say he made an inordinate number of bad plays in that game.  

8 minutes ago, Simon said:

Exactly.

He was miked up that day and told his boys on the sideline that he was going to just clock it until he got up there and saw the situation.

 

The way Allen finished the Cards game and has finished multiple others, I can see him pulling off something similar when he's a little older.

 

As I was saying. This was the last play of the game: 

.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

What happens if that Hail Mary pass does happen? 
What would we be talking about ? 
Bills being 8-2 and another AMAZING game winning drive by Josh ? Or maybe that BEAUTIFUL TD throw to Diggs ? 

 

I’ve seen / heard people today saying that it was amazing and 2 also said that 99 out of 100 that would be the drive of the week

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

This board as a whole reads at roughly a 3rd grade level. Listening comprehension is roughly at a 1st grade level. 

 

That seems like a bit of a needlessly broad brush.  We have some noise, but I think we have a good amount of signal, too. 🤷‍♂️ 

Much of it just opinion, of course, and worth what anyone pays

 

45 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I enjoy Kubiak... really neutral POV IMO. I personally like Cover1 because it’s free to watch and I learn better with visual aides and listening than I do reading. I think Cover1 is a really good source but tend to sugar coat some things here and there... Kubiak, like I said is neutral. 

 

With Kubiak is bring up the coaches film on NFL Gamepass, watch the play he comments on, read what he says, then watch it again. 

 

I get a lot more when I see it rather than read it, as well.

 

45 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It’s amazing the sources there are publicly available. You’d be surprised at how many pro teams keep tabs on these guys internally and learn from their breakdowns. We do it all the time... amazing free source for teams to learn from... even if they’re not as polished as the breakdown by the team themselves. 

 

Interesting!  I suppose it's a bit like free consulting - might not be correct due to not knowing the internal details but an outside perspective never hurts

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'm a huge fan of Josh Allen. I'd still say he made an inordinate number of bad plays in that game. 

 

What's your definition of inordinate number? 

How do you define bad play?

 

Since Kubiak conveniently provides a description of many of the plays, could you share your list?

 

I don't say this to be nit-picky, but if it's going to serve as a basis for any productive discussion, we do need to start from the same understanding what a "bad play" is to you and so forth.  You know, so we aren't all "inordinate number" = 4 or something like that.

 

[JGMcD2]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That seems like a bit of a needlessly broad brush.  We have some noise, but I think we have a good amount of signal, too. 🤷‍♂️ 

Much of it just opinion, of course, and worth what anyone pays

 

 

With Kubiak is bring up the coaches film on NFL Gamepass, watch the play he comments on, read what he says, then watch it again. 

 

I get a lot more when I see it rather than read it, as well.

 

 

Interesting!  I suppose it's a bit like free consulting - might not be correct due to not knowing the internal details but an outside perspective never hurts

I need to do a much better job of finding my voice on here. Definitely a broad brush, was supposed to be fairly sarcastic but my tendency to speak hyperbole tends to hurt me when typing as opposed to speaking. 
 

Love the rest of your points! 

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

What's your definition of inordinate number? 

How do you define bad play?

 

Since Kubiak conveniently provides a description of many of the plays, could you share your list?

 

I don't say this to be nit-picky, but if it's going to serve as a basis for any productive discussion, we do need to start from the same understanding what a "bad play" is to you and so forth.  You know, so we aren't all "inordinate number" = 4 or something like that.

 

Four balls that *should* have been picked (and two were). A crazy decision to heave a ball into the middle of the scrum to avoid a sack. Missing on both deep throws by 5+ yards. The throws weren't even close. He made a lot of good plays too. But 5 legit bad ones plus the return of deep-ball inaccuracy on the two such throws he made adds up to a lot of negative plays. Anyway, anytime you throw four clearly interceptable balls, you're making an inordinate number of bad plays.   

Edited November 17, 2020 by dave mcbride

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Four balls that *should* have been picked (and two were). A crazy decision to heave a ball into the middle of the scrum to avoid a sack. Missing on both deep throws by 5+ yards. The throws weren't even close. He made a lot of good plays too. But 5 legit bad ones plus the return of deep-ball inaccuracy on the two such throws he made adds up to a lot of negative plays. Anyway, anytime you throw four clearly interceptable balls, you're making an inordinate number of bad plays.   

 

So don't know if you have read it, but I thought Kubiak's assessment of the interceptions was interesting.   What's your take?

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So don't know if you have read it, but I thought Kubiak's assessment of the interceptions was interesting.   What's your take?

I disagree with him. My read on each of the INT-possible throws.

 

1. He threw from an unstable base and overthrew the receiver (which was not Singletary) by a lot irrespective of Peterson.

2. Just a bad throw that Peterson dropped. Don't know what he was looking at there. I don't think this one is complicated.

3. Inaccurate throw behind Davis that the trail cover guy could make a play on. Ball needs to be on the other side of the receiver.

4. My read at the time, and I'm standing by it, is that he wanted to get Knox back in the game after that killer penalty and threw a reckless, inaccurate heave into coverage that failed. He regularly tries to pick up his teammates after they make an error, and it's an admirable trait. But it didn't work in this case because there were two defenders in the area and Knox was covered. 

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

 

[JGMcD2]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I disagree with him. My read on each of the INT-possible throws.

 

1. He threw from an unstable base and overthrew the receiver (which was not Singletary) by a lot irrespective of Peterson.

2. Just a bad throw that Peterson dropped. Don't know what he was looking at there. I don't think this one is complicated.

3. Inaccurate throw behind Davis that the trail cover guy could make a play on. Ball needs to be on the other side of the receiver.

4. My read at the time, and I'm standing by it, is that he wanted to get Knox back in the game after that killer penalty and threw a reckless, inaccurate heave into coverage that failed. He regularly tries to pick up his teammates after they make an error, and it's an admirable trait. But it didn't work in this case because there were two defenders in the area and Knox was covered. 

 

Just my opinion, of course.

 

 

Dave, just out of curiosity, because your points are really well thought out. I agree with some of Jim’s points for sure, but some of your perspective as well. 
 

What’s your football background? Because I can tell you have to have some form of a background in the game. 
 

EDIT:
 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Jim said Singletary wasn’t the target as well, but his poor route causes him to be in the area and impact the throw to I believe John Brown? 

 

He also said it was an inaccurate throw to Davis, because Josh was late in his progression on that throw. Which tightened the margin for error. 
 

Yes, he may have forced that throw to Knox (I actually agree with you on the thought process, you nailed what Josh does) but Jim also made a point that the coverage was designed to be confusing and hidden. He made the point that there’s really no way Josh could know that Peterson was a robber in that situation. So yes, he forced it, but maybe Josh’s process wasn’t entirely bad. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by JGMcD2

[Inigo Montoya]

3 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Mahomes still only has one pick to Allens 7. Allen has been more reckless with the ball lately...

 

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

I was born a Bills fan. Maybe that is different than choosing a team?

 

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

I think the only reason you're fooled is due to being overly emotional about your team, which is one way to do it. No worries...

 

You should go get a library card this afternoon.  There is a great book I'd highly recommend, it's called The Power of Positive Thinking by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale. I think it could be a real game changer for you.

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[Simon]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

My read at the time, and I'm standing by it, is that he wanted to get Knox back in the game after that killer penalty and threw a reckless, inaccurate heave into coverage that failed. He regularly tries to pick up his teammates after they make an error, and it's an admirable trait.

Also the first thing that popped into my head.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Bills traded the Mahomes pick, so kind of? The way Tre White has been playing, I'd say that was a huge organizational mistake. 

 

Dear God NOT the "Bills traded Mahomes pick" reason to crap on Allen.  I thought we were way past that point.

 

 

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

No, but I think Mahomes on this Bills team makes the Bills better than they currently are. Anyone who doesn't think the same isn't being forthright IMO.

 

Why be so limiting.  I could come up with a dozen NFL players who if they were on the Bills would make them a better team.

 

 

 

 

[Da webster guy]

2 hours ago, teef said:

yeah, but i bet a few of the ships blow up with passengers in them.  i also bet the idea of living on mars is far too aggressive for our generation, and we'll probably both be long dead before anyone is actually able to live on mars.

 

Wait, you mean going to live on a planet where the average temp is 81 below zero and there is no oxygen doesn't excite you?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

He has led the league three times in game winning drives, and in 2016 had 8. The Lions only won 9 games that season! The Lions have 4 wins now and he has 3 game winning drives. He should have 4 given that season opener too. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00.htm

 

Yea if there has been a problem with Stafford it has been his play Q1-3 especially against better defenses. He has always been good late in games. I think Matt Stafford has been a top 10 QB pretty much his entire time in the league completely wasted by a useless organisation.

[BananaB]

No game is gonna perfect. Allen has made huge strides so far this year,  nit picking every play is pointless. Especially when you are dropping back 50 times a game because your run game is *****.

 

 Complaining about trading the Mahommes pick is even stupider. If anyone knew what Mahommes would become he would of went first overall.  After this season I bet a lot of people will be saying Allen should of been the first overall pick in his draft as well. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by BananaB

[Punching Bag]

12 minutes ago, BananaB said:

No game is gonna perfect. Allen has made huge strides so far this year,  nit picking every play is pointless. Especially when you are dropping back 50 times a game because your run game is *****.

 

 Complaining about trading the Mahommes pick is even stupider. If anyone knew what Mahommes would become he would of went first overall.  After this season I bet a lot of people will be saying Allen should of been the first overall pick in his draft as well. 

 

No of course Baker Mayfield will be.  You are talking about the NFL Advertising spokeman draft right?

 

I wonder how many endorsements Allen would have if he was drafted #1 by Cleveland.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Jim said Singletary wasn’t the target as well, but his poor route causes him to be in the area and impact the throw to I believe John Brown?

 

You are correct, Kubiak said the throw was to Brown on the crosser, and that Singletary didn't "do his job" by running his Go route with conviction. 

 

I'm the one who pointed out that the NFL game log has it noted as a pass to Singletary as he is the closest receiver to the pass.  Pretty sure Motor saw Peterson and saw the high pass and ran in there to break it up, which he did, but it was clear that the pass was to Brown. Josh was locked in on him all the way....and Peterson was locked in on Josh's eyes. 

 

Bad throw, no question.  Josh's feet weren't right, he threw off his back foot, and the ball sailed high.  Bad decision as well as Knox was open for the first.