BillsShredder83 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 22 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: It's going to be a lot harder to bring in decent players at a decent price next year than it has been so far for Beane. Right now we have $2.8M estimated 2021 cap space and the rollover will likely be around $4M or less. That's just about enough to sign the rookies we draft, and We actually looked reasonably healthy, but this COVID thing destroyed next year's cap, and that will affect a lot of teams badly, including us. If we want a good RT next year we may have to draft one early. The one good thing is that guys who sign contracts next year will have to sign low. There just aren't a lot of teams with money. We might get a guy, maybe even Daryl Williams, to sign a team-friendly one-year deal, but I'm pretty sure Williams would like to avoid that if possible, having just signed a one-year team-friendly deal this year. There'll be ways to cut a bit here and there. But they have a lot of things they'll need to do just replacing Milano, Josh Norman, Murphy, Levi Wallace, Bojorquez, Boettger, Feliciano, Winters, Daryl Williams, Nsekhe, Tyler Kroft, McKenzie, Andre Roberts and Matt Barkley. Team depth will likely take a major hit and new holes will be developed and we're likely to take a hit in terms of total talent if things stay as they are as far as expected cap level. The cap hit is going to be an issue around the league. That means there's going to be starters sitting on the couch, or taking team friendly deals across the league. Well see some GMs get creative, probably alot of restructuring of deals to backend payouts if I had to guess. If all teams are dealing with the same issue, then I think it benefits us having one of the better GMs in the league figuring this out. Might even find creative ways to sign players that normally wouldn't be available to us. Wizards gunna wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Doc Brown said: He regressed this year as he played fairly well last year. Resigning him at the time made sure you could keep the same o-line together (Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Feliciano, Ford/Nsekhe) if you wanted to this year. Continuity they say is important with offensive lines. It was before the Daryl Williams signing (didn't know what to expect from him) and the Winters signing. If we cut Spain after this season it's only a 1.5 million dollar cap hit spread out over the next two seasons. At the worst you're getting great depth at the o-line. Wish they did the same with LB's. Yeah, I get what they did. It just seemed like a lot of money for what we were getting with him. I get that the payout wasn’t that huge, but who else was going to give him that kind of contract? He’s exactly the kind of player on the kind of contract that gets churned off of a roster by a younger, cheaper player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Yeah, I get what they did. It just seemed like a lot of money for what we were getting with him. I get that the payout wasn’t that huge, but who else was going to give him that kind of contract? He’s exactly the kind of player on the kind of contract that gets churned off of a roster by a younger, cheaper player. Basically a one year rental contract like that. There's definitely teams that would've given him a similar contract as he'd be a better option at guard on some teams around the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Basically a one year rental contract like that. There's definitely teams that would've given him a similar contract as he'd be a better option at guard on some teams around the league. It is a 3 year, $15M deal or effectively a $5.75M one year deal. The latter would tie him for 26th among OGs (or he’d be at 33rd at $5M AAV with the former). Spotrac OG AAV here. That’s a pretty obvious overpay for a guy who just got shuffled to the bench or was a pretty marginal starter. I can accept that Beane overpaid him to keep continuity on the line and ensure we had good IOL depth, but he still overpaid by about double. But in the end it’s only $2M-$3M in cap space and that isn’t going to have a big impact on the team so I’m not going to belabor the point any further. The real tragedy for the Bills is that they paid Spain and traded away Teller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) Ford has been an average guard so far. He hasn't been getting much push in the run game And he's honestly been getting pushed back in the pass game. Defensive ends we're not able to bullrush him at right tackle, but defensive tackles have been able to He needs to work on his anchor a bit for guard play Edited October 7, 2020 by Buffalo716 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 6:40 AM, YoloinOhio said: They seem to really like both and I can see them re-signing mongo, not sure he would be cost prohibitive. Williams is a different story. He might really get some cash on the open market if he stays healthy, at age 29. I think they could draft an OT. How good of an OT can we get with the 32nd pick.😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 35 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: How good of an OT can we get with the 32nd pick.😁 John Fina? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said: John Fina? Not bad then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Cody is on the injury report as DNP groin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 10:01 AM, Thurman#1 said: It's going to be a lot harder to bring in decent players at a decent price next year than it has been so far for Beane. Right now we have $2.8M estimated 2021 cap space and the rollover will likely be around $4M or less. That's just about enough to sign the rookies we draft, and We actually looked reasonably healthy, but this COVID thing destroyed next year's cap, and that will affect a lot of teams badly, including us. If we want a good RT next year we may have to draft one early. The one good thing is that guys who sign contracts next year will have to sign low. There just aren't a lot of teams with money. We might get a guy, maybe even Daryl Williams, to sign a team-friendly one-year deal, but I'm pretty sure Williams would like to avoid that if possible, having just signed a one-year team-friendly deal this year. There'll be ways to cut a bit here and there. But they have a lot of things they'll need to do just replacing Milano, Josh Norman, Murphy, Levi Wallace, Bojorquez, Boettger, Feliciano, Winters, Daryl Williams, Nsekhe, Tyler Kroft, McKenzie, Andre Roberts and Matt Barkley. Team depth will likely take a major hit and new holes will be developed and we're likely to take a hit in terms of total talent if things stay as they are as far as expected cap level. If Gabriel Davis keeps performing, One of Beasley or Brown can go. Vernon Butler could save 6.8M, and it could even be the end of the line for Jerry Hughes. That contract they signed Star to, just keeps looking worse and worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 14 hours ago, JMF2006 said: I agree but I don't think he is the long term solution. Why not? He is not old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 19 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Why not? He is not old I thought he was 29 going on 30 but he just turned 28 in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Ford has been an average guard so far. He hasn't been getting much push in the run game And he's honestly been getting pushed back in the pass game. Defensive ends we're not able to bullrush him at right tackle, but defensive tackles have been able to He needs to work on his anchor a bit for guard play Yeah he should round into form at some position about the time he hits free agency. Ford is a prime example of the flawed logic of over-drafting a tweener OL......tweener as in not a sure-fire first round pedigree but more potential than most third day picks. Ultimately since all but the exceptional ones usually take 3+ years to develop now, the math is not in your favor wrt getting on-field returns commensurate to the value of that draft pick before they reach free agent status. Edited October 8, 2020 by BADOLBILZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, JMF2006 said: I thought he was 29 going on 30 but he just turned 28 in August. I think locking him up for a few years would be a smart move.....the guy can play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 10/7/2020 at 6:14 AM, BillsShredder83 said: The cap hit is going to be an issue around the league. That means there's going to be starters sitting on the couch, or taking team friendly deals across the league. Well see some GMs get creative, probably alot of restructuring of deals to backend payouts if I had to guess. If all teams are dealing with the same issue, then I think it benefits us having one of the better GMs in the league figuring this out. Might even find creative ways to sign players that normally wouldn't be available to us. Wizards gunna wizard I also think the NFL is going to smooth out the cap decrease so that the cap isn't crunched and then rapidly increased. I think they will take some money from 2022 and 2023 and apply it to 2021. I think there will either be a small decrease or a flat cap in 2021 but the increases to the cap that were projected in 2022 and 2023 are unlikely to manifest themselves as much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 So our ideal group is Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Mongo-Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 5:38 AM, Coach Tuesday said: Better become a really good guard to justify that high pick. Eh, they're probably going to end up getting good value for him If you look at PFF's best guards - Quenton Nelson - 1st Zach Martin - 1st David DeCastro - 1st Joel Bitonio - 2nd Brandon Scherff - 1st Roger Saffold - 2nd Joe Thuney - 3rd Ali Marpet - 2nd Shaq Mason - 4th Kevin Zeitler - 1st Graham Glascow - 3rd Larry Warford - 3rd I think getting a good starter in the 2nd is pretty good value. He wasn't a first so you wouldn't neccesarily expect him to be a top 10 kind of guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 47 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Playing next to the two best lineman on the team helps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 41 minutes ago, appoo said: Eh, they're probably going to end up getting good value for him If you look at PFF's best guards - Quenton Nelson - 1st Zach Martin - 1st David DeCastro - 1st Joel Bitonio - 2nd Brandon Scherff - 1st Roger Saffold - 2nd Joe Thuney - 3rd Ali Marpet - 2nd Shaq Mason - 4th Kevin Zeitler - 1st Graham Glascow - 3rd Larry Warford - 3rd I think getting a good starter in the 2nd is pretty good value. He wasn't a first so you wouldn't neccesarily expect him to be a top 10 kind of guy All those guys you listed were guard prospects tho. And had great film there I don't think Ford is in that realm as a guard. His Oklahoma play at guard certainly doesn't say so. Hence why most scouts said Guard should be a fallback if he couldn't hang at tackle. Because he can bully defensive ends, and win as a traditional mauling right tackle He doesn't have that ability against world class defensive tackles. He's been getting pushed back a bit in the pass game His anchor needs to improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBennett Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Thats his natural spot and a spot IMO he can excel at..you saw he simply does not have the FOOT SPEED to keep up with elite speed pass rushers..doesnt mean with a injury bug or in a pinch he cant fill in..it DOES mean he can be a VERY good G and he will never be a VG Tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 So Daboll will NOT be dialing up any jet sweeps to Cody Ford? *****. I knew I shouldn't have taken that bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, CBennett said: Thats his natural spot and a spot IMO he can excel at..you saw he simply does not have the FOOT SPEED to keep up with elite speed pass rushers..doesnt mean with a injury bug or in a pinch he cant fill in..it DOES mean he can be a VERY good G and he will never be a VG Tackle. Everybody says this but he had excellent quick feet at Oklahoma Read any scouting report his feet are amazing for a big man It takes time to develop. Its called thinking over playing and sloppy technique But saying he has slow feet is not correct. He was a better tackle than guard at Oklahoma... It's hard to play tackle in the NFL Edited October 8, 2020 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Joe B gotta be basking in the wake of own stank because he has not let go the "Cody Ford to guard" argument since before the kid was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: All those guys you listed were guard prospects tho. And had great film there I don't think Ford is in that realm as a guard. His Oklahoma play at guard certainly doesn't say so. Hence why most scouts said Guard should be a fallback if he couldn't hang at tackle. Because he can bully defensive ends, and win as a traditional mauling right tackle He doesn't have that ability against world class defensive tackles. He's been getting pushed back a bit in the pass game His anchor needs to improve That’s fair and I don’t know enough OLine technique to actually offer a deeper analysis, but in the Rams game he seemed to have done as well as reasonably expected against Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 I'm curious to see what Feliciano's presence does for the OL. Right guard is now the only reason question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, appoo said: That’s fair and I don’t know enough OLine technique to actually offer a deeper analysis, but in the Rams game he seemed to have done as well as reasonably expected against Donald Is Cody Ford a better guard than tackle today? Yes, but that's because Guard is vastly easier to play in the NFL In the pass game and run game you get a lot of double teams and helping situations Tackles are left one-on-one the majority of time. So there's a bigger steeper learning curve If he could show the ability to pull like he did in college, and become a Mauler in the running game, that would be huge But just getting a guy who is solid across the board at guard is pretty easy to find in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 What this also means is that while I would have liked to see the Bills use their first rounder on an EDGE, OT might be a bigger need as I assume Daryl Williams will price himself out Buffalo’s pandemic salary cap. Bates is getting some PT I noticed and I’m wondering if that’s in prep for him competing for the RG spot next season so they won’t have to pay Brian winters, who’s also entering FA at 29, and should clear $3M he’s getting paid now as a starter on a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, appoo said: What this also means is that while I would have liked to see the Bills use their first rounder on an EDGE, OT might be a bigger need as I assume Daryl Williams will price himself out Buffalo’s pandemic salary cap. Bates is getting some PT I noticed and I’m wondering if that’s in prep for him competing for the RG spot next season so they won’t have to pay Brian winters, who’s also entering FA at 29, and should clear $3M he’s getting paid now as a starter on a good team. I think there's zero chance they re-sign Winters. And Bates has gotten just 1 snap in 3 of the 4 games and 5 snaps in the Miami game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Doc said: I think there's zero chance they re-sign Winters. And Bates has gotten just 1 snap in 3 of the 4 games and 5 snaps in the Miami game. Oops! I thought I saw him more against LV. at least he got to spike the ball on a Josh Allen TD against the Jets. Edited October 8, 2020 by appoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, appoo said: Oops! I thought I saw him more against LV. at least he got to spike the ball on a Josh Allen TD against the Jets. Yeah. They've been bringing him in as an extra OL for goal-line plays. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBennett Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 On 10/8/2020 at 4:15 PM, Buffalo716 said: Everybody says this but he had excellent quick feet at Oklahoma Read any scouting report his feet are amazing for a big man It takes time to develop. Its called thinking over playing and sloppy technique But saying he has slow feet is not correct. He was a better tackle than guard at Oklahoma... It's hard to play tackle in the NFL He sucked Vs speed rushers at T HERE with the Bills....he simply couldnt get to them. Thats why he is at G. we can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, CBennett said: He sucked Vs speed rushers at T HERE with the Bills....he simply couldnt get to them. Thats why he is at G. we can agree to disagree. Most rookie tackles struggle not just ford. Dawkins struggled mightily with speed rushers as a rookie. You act like he's a 7 year vet It's not a foot quickness thing. It's a technique thing which is coachable He hasn't been that great at guard either. His power that he used versus defensive ends is completely negated versus stronger tackles You can find good guard play anywhere. It takes years to develop offensive tackles At least he was able to bully defensive ends He's at guard because Darryl Williams is playing well. If he wasn't here ford would still be taking reps at tackle It's not because he's been playing like an All-Pro at guard Edited October 9, 2020 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBennett Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 10/9/2020 at 5:00 PM, Buffalo716 said: Most rookie tackles struggle not just ford. Dawkins struggled mightily with speed rushers as a rookie. You act like he's a 7 year vet It's not a foot quickness thing. It's a technique thing which is coachable He hasn't been that great at guard either. His power that he used versus defensive ends is completely negated versus stronger tackles You can find good guard play anywhere. It takes years to develop offensive tackles At least he was able to bully defensive ends He's at guard because Darryl Williams is playing well. If he wasn't here ford would still be taking reps at tackle It's not because he's been playing like an All-Pro at guard I know this isnt really a article about Ford specifically but it goes to the position he sucked at(RT) that they kept trying to put him in....since they got him out of there because of his slow feet and lack of being able to block speed rushers..and got this guy IN there this is what happens when Ford ISNT your RT and SOMEONE COMPETENT is... PFF: RT - Daryl Williams, Buffalo Bills … Buffalo's Daryl Williams is back to near his best play this season. Williams has a PFF grade of at least 77.0 as both a pass blocker and a run blocker, and that elevates him over the other right tackles who are clustered around with similar overall grades.( Bills Today | These two Bills received midseason All-Pro mentions Nov 12, 2020) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, CBennett said: I know this isnt really a article about Ford specifically but it goes to the position he sucked at(RT) that they kept trying to put him in....since they got him out of there because of his slow feet and lack of being able to block speed rushers..and got this guy IN there this is what happens when Ford ISNT your RT and SOMEONE COMPETENT is... PFF: RT - Daryl Williams, Buffalo Bills … Buffalo's Daryl Williams is back to near his best play this season. Williams has a PFF grade of at least 77.0 as both a pass blocker and a run blocker, and that elevates him over the other right tackles who are clustered around with similar overall grades.( Bills Today | These two Bills received midseason All-Pro mentions Nov 12, 2020) Daryl Williams is playing well But he even took a few years to develop into the player he is And I think it's funny when people think Cody Ford has slow feet. He has amazingly quick feet, read any scouting report And then watch his feet when he plays, he has very good feet What he does do like most young players, is think instead of play Which slows you down, couple that with his not great technique, and he looks slower than he his But he's an amazing athlete, who moves very well. He has a technique problem Edited November 12, 2020 by Buffalo716 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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