Presidential Debates 2020

[Alaska Darin]

23 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

"Never confuse activity with achievement"

Biden's got neither.  Never has.

[section122]

30 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

What on earth gives you that idea?

 

Let me break it down for the uninitiated:

 

Chris Wallace - a Fox News guy - interrupted Trump constantly, thus saving Biden's ass on numerous occasions.

 

My comment was " could you imagine a reverse scenario, where a CNN host gave Trump a leg up".

 

It's really not that hard a concept to grasp.

 

I keep seeing this in the thread but I don't seen any of you acknowledge Trumps complete lack of tact and many attempts to speak over Biden and interrupting at every chance. The moderator had no choice but to continuously jump in to stop Trump from interrupting.  Trump didn't hit his stride until he stopped doing that imo.

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

 

 

 

He started it!

 

This is where we are in America today 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Nice. Now if we could just get rid of the Town Hall format and cut everyone's mic until it's his turn to talk.

...quite frankly, I did NOT bother to watch the debates nor do I want to discuss my political views.....at the same time, Trump is a bombastic, caustic, irascible and TYPICAL New Yorker.....there are times when he needs to STFU and even have his thumbs taped so he's "Twitterless"......sure he's a bonafide outsider who the "Good 'Ol Boyz" political network hate and it's ON BOTH SIDES......their "closed fraternity" has been invaded and the graft, corruption et al exposed makes Nixon look like an altar boy....so have many said, last night was a "shi#sh%w" from both sides.....anybody expecting Trump to abandon his NYC brashness in favor of "warm 'n fuzzy" were pipe dreaming....

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, section122 said:

I keep seeing this in the thread but I don't seen any of you acknowledge Trumps complete lack of tact and many attempts to speak over Biden and interrupting at every chance. The moderator had no choice but to continuously jump in to stop Trump from interrupting. Trump didn't hit his stride until he stopped doing that imo

 

Oh, I'll fully acknowledge it. That's always been his style for better and worse. It's one of the big reasons he won in '16 (because he tapped into a large segment of the population's desire to stick it to establishment DC). People who expect Trump to be anything other than Trump are never going to be satisfied. This is a feature not a bug for many. And for many, it's an instant turnoff. 

 

 

I understand how both camps got there. 

[section122]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

 

 

 

Man this is at least the 3rd tweet in this thread you have posted that is a stretch at the very least if not an outright lie.  Trump interrupted Wallace not the other way around.  He couldn't let Wallace finish the question before he wanted to speak.

[section122]

12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Oh, I'll fully acknowledge it. That's always been his style for better and worse. It's one of the big reasons he won in '16 (because he tapped into a large segment of the population's desire to stick it to establishment DC). People who expect Trump to be anything other than Trump are never going to be satisfied. This is a feature not a bug for many. And for many, it's an instant turnoff. 

 

 

I appreciate that, finally some sanity lol.

 

I think it did work in 16 bc he was an outsider.  However that schtick doesn't work as well when he has been president for 4 years with a republican controlled congress for the duration of his presidency.  He can't blame current politicians for the the current problems as he is no longer an outsider.  As the president this is now his mess.  He tried to drop a 47 years line on Biden but it fell flat imo bc he is no longer able to blame anyone else. 

 

I agree the cowboy style worked in 16 but I thought he was at his best last night when he shut up and played by the rules.  I think he tried to rile up Biden at the start but it just came across as him being a petulant child to me. I definitely fall into the instant turnoff group.  I just can't wrap my head around the person who represents all of America acting in this manner and people thinking it is okay.

Edited September 30, 2020 by section122
paragraph break

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

32 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Oh, I'll fully acknowledge it. That's always been his style for better and worse. It's one of the big reasons he won in '16 (because he tapped into a large segment of the population's desire to stick it to establishment DC). People who expect Trump to be anything other than Trump are never going to be satisfied. This is a feature not a bug for many. And for many, it's an instant turnoff. 

 

 

I understand how both camps got there. 

 

 

...precisely DR......how many YEARS did people cry for a Washington outsider to "clean up the mess"?......how long has Congressional ratings lumbered in the teens?....how many times did Washington "insiders" fraudulently claim to be THE outsider "new Sheriff in town" to clean up the mess?.....name names?...waste of time and not ONE was elected....so now we get one, the "Good 'Ol Boyz BOTH Sides Fraternity" has been invaded.....and look at all of their dirty little covert secrets, graft, corruption, manipulation et al that has been exposed.....Jesus, "The Swamp" may be deeper than the Pacific.....SMH......."world's greatest democracy" my butt......sad.....

Edited September 30, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Rob's House]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Look at the video that's posted right above.

"I don't know who the Proud Boys are."

Don't you think, if you're being pummeled in the (mainstream) media about you're refusal to disavow them you'd use, I don't know, the next 16 hours to find out who they are?

Then you could come out and do proper damage control (not the type that your campaign manager -- not the one in a mental ward, the new one -- is forcing you to do). It would be easy:

"After looking into the nature of that group, which I wasn't fully apprised of when my opponent threw that name in my face last night, I can say that I unequivocally denounce any violent or threatening tactics by them, which can only heighten tensions in these delicate times."

And still ... he can't do it.

 

I don't see you calling for Biden to denounce Antifa or BLM. Why is that?

[Deranged Rhino]

8 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I appreciate that, finally some sanity lol.

 

I think it did work in 16 bc he was an outsider.  However that schtick doesn't work as well when he has been president for 4 years with a republican controlled congress for the duration of his presidency.  He can't blame current politicians for the the current problems as he is no longer an outsider.  As the president this is now his mess.  He tried to drop a 47 years line on Biden but it fell flat imo bc he is no longer able to blame anyone else. 

 

I agree the cowboy style worked in 16 but I thought he was at his best last night when he shut up and played by the rules.  I think he tried to rile up Biden at the start but it just came across as him being a petulant child to me. I definitely fall into the instant turnoff group.  I just can't wrap my head around the person who represents all of America acting in this manner and people thinking it is okay.

 

 

 

Per the bolded, let me ask you sincerely a question I've asked myself. Forget our current political situation, Trump or Biden don't exist for the sake of this question, what matters more to you personally: having a president who says all the right things in public and is spit shined perfect in terms of staying on message -- however off screen/camera he's corrupt up the wazzoo in any way you can imagine, or a president who's a lout and anything but spit shined perfect on camera -- however off screen/camera he's not lining his pockets but instead doing his job above board?

 

A lot of people who "support Trump" don't like his personality, they tolerate it as a means to an end. 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, section122 said:

I appreciate that, finally some sanity lol.

 

I think it did work in 16 bc he was an outsider.  However that schtick doesn't work as well when he has been president for 4 years with a republican controlled congress for the duration of his presidency.  He can't blame current politicians for the the current problems as he is no longer an outsider.  As the president this is now his mess.  He tried to drop a 47 years line on Biden but it fell flat imo bc he is no longer able to blame anyone else.  I agree the cowboy style worked in 16 but I thought he was at his best last night when he shut up and played by the rules.  I think he tried to rile up Biden at the start but it just came across as him being a petulant child to me. 

 

I definitely fall into the instant turnoff group.  I just can't wrap my head around the person who represents all of America acting in this manner and people thinking it is okay.

It hasn’t been a Republican controlled Congress for the duration of his term and he never had a super majority in the Senate.  Still things were going extremely well until Covid forced shutdowns (which Biden would be willing to institute again)and George Floyd’s death caused riots, neither of which were his fault.  

[IDBillzFan]

6 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

I don't see you calling for Biden to denounce Antifa or BLM. Why is that?

 

Just go to www.Antifa.com for your answer.

[Dr. Who]

17 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I appreciate that, finally some sanity lol.

 

I think it did work in 16 bc he was an outsider.  However that schtick doesn't work as well when he has been president for 4 years with a republican controlled congress for the duration of his presidency.  He can't blame current politicians for the the current problems as he is no longer an outsider.  As the president this is now his mess.  He tried to drop a 47 years line on Biden but it fell flat imo bc he is no longer able to blame anyone else. 

 

I agree the cowboy style worked in 16 but I thought he was at his best last night when he shut up and played by the rules.  I think he tried to rile up Biden at the start but it just came across as him being a petulant child to me. I definitely fall into the instant turnoff group.  I just can't wrap my head around the person who represents all of America acting in this manner and people thinking it is okay.

From before Trump was elected, the DC Swamp and compliant media have been hostile. The never ending impeachment based on a hoax, the continual selective leaking from bad actors, the partisan behavior of the press resulting in utterly unbalanced reporting  -- Trump absolutely can plausibly run as an outsider because he still is an outsider.

[The Frankish Reich]

Antifa 2020 is kind of where Occupy Wall Street was in 2008, or the Tea Party in 2009 or Black Lives Matter immediately post-Ferguson. A set of political goals and agreed-upon methods to achieve them.

Over time we saw those earlier concepts crystallize (some might say be co-opted) into organizations. I haven't studied Antifa closely enough to know whether that's where they're at now, but if there is an "Antifa.com" that's a good sign.

For an explanation of the concept, see the Proud Boys thread.

This is not to argue with either side, but rather to explain what the FBI Director meant when discussing Antifa, and how Biden gave an incomplete answer when he said it is just a concept.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

From before Trump was elected, the DC Swamp and compliant media have been hostile. The never ending impeachment based on a hoax, the continual selective leaking from bad actors, the partisan behavior of the press resulting in utterly unbalanced reporting  -- Trump absolutely can plausibly run as an outsider because he still is an outsider.

 

...but the closed culture, what I affectionately call the "Good 'Ol Boyz Network" with faithful guards FROM BOTH SIDES has been breached......and volumes of their "dirty little secrets" exposed.....NEITHER side was ready for a REAL outsider........

[IDBillzFan]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

but if there is an "Antifa.com" that's a good sign.

 

There is. Just type it in your browser and have a look. Remember...it's just "an idea."

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

There is. Just type it in your browser and have a look. Remember...it's just "an idea."

 

 

Please read my full comment. I'm trying to explain the evolutionary cycle of these "movements" at least as far as law enforcement sees them.

[Dragoon]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/painful-triggering-why-ibram-x-211711846.html
 

 

I made it like 4 sentences in before I couldn’t read anymore. I was laughing at how absurdly stupid this was to the point I’m tearing up. 
 

....people may have “trauma” from the debate according to the idiot who invented critical race theory. Naturally all the Martha’s Vineyard liberals are very concerned and I am dying laughing. 

[BillStime]

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

55 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

Man this is at least the 3rd tweet in this thread you have posted that is a stretch at the very least if not an outright lie.  Trump interrupted Wallace not the other way around.  He couldn't let Wallace finish the question before he wanted to speak.

WTF are you talking about? The tweet you quoted SHOWED Chris Wallace in 2016 asking Trump to disavow "white supremacists," you know the same question Chris Wallace asked last night? Watch the video.

 

[BillStime]

 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Oh, I'll fully acknowledge it. That's always been his style for better and worse. It's one of the big reasons he won in '16 (because he tapped into a large segment of the population's desire to stick it to establishment DC). People who expect Trump to be anything other than Trump are never going to be satisfied. This is a feature not a bug for many. And for many, it's an instant turnoff. 

 

 

I understand how both camps got there. 

 

In ‘16 he had to do that because he was an outsider.

Last night he gave away the fact that he’s the incumbent President. He gave away talking up his achievements and dumping on Biden’s notion of how his administration will look.  Trump did some of that, but not nearly enough.

 

[Dragoon]

5 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Whats a “scientific” post debate poll?

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

WTF are you talking about? The tweet you quoted SHOWED Chris Wallace in 2016 asking Trump to disavow "white supremacists," you know the same question Chris Wallace asked last night? Watch the video.

 

...but if they watch the video they’ll know the truth and they CANNOT have that. 

[BillStime]

 

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Dragoon said:

Whats a “scientific” post debate poll?

A "scientific" poll is one that selects its subjects rather than being an "open-access" poll like those insta-polls you see during or immediately after the debate. In other words, you try to get a sample of respondents that is representative of registered voters or (as it gets closer to the election) likely voters.

[BillStime]

 

[snafu]

42 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

A lot of people who "support Trump" don't like his personality, they tolerate it as a means to an end. 

 

I call Trump “Schwartzenegger’s nanny”. 

[Dragoon]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

A "scientific" poll is one that selects its subjects rather than being an "open-access" poll like those insta-polls you see during or immediately after the debate. In other words, you try to get a sample of respondents that is representative of registered voters or (as it gets closer to the election) likely voters.

Thank you. I did not know that. 
 

Now....and forgive me....it’s just data can be easily manipulated. They could be over sampling Democrats. 
 

that said, I didn’t watch the debate because I predicted it’d go down like it did and I found Downton Abbey reruns more enticing. 

47 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

I don't see you calling for Biden to denounce Antifa or BLM. Why is that?

“Antifa” is an idea, remember. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Dragoon said:

Thank you. I did not know that. 
 

Now....and forgive me....it’s just data can be easily manipulated. They could be over sampling Democrats. 
 

that said, I didn’t watch the debate because I predicted it’d go down like it did and I found Downton Abbey reruns more enticing. 

“Antifa” is an idea, remember. 

Yes, they certainly could. You can usually look at the underlying data, but "scientific" though they may be, the design is as much art as it is science.

[snafu]

46 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

I don't see you calling for Biden to denounce Antifa or BLM. Why is that?

 

But Antifa is just an”idea”.

An idea that a lot of people share and then they get together the express their “idea” by taking over parts of cities, burning property and nearly sacking a federal courthouse.  When is an “idea” a “movement” with acts performed by a “group”?

 

 

[Keukasmallies]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:10 AM, Buffalo_Gal said:

Does she identify as black?
 

 

When she needs the boost she does, otherwise she's open to whatever the Dem's need at the moment.

20 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

Ask Hill'ry about the power of poll results. Yeah, I didn't think so....

[section122]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

WTF are you talking about? The tweet you quoted SHOWED Chris Wallace in 2016 asking Trump to disavow "white supremacists," you know the same question Chris Wallace asked last night? Watch the video.

 

Exactly what i said...

 

Wallace didn't talk over him.

 

Edt:  I also have to add "racist hoaxster" Chris Wallace.  Cmon

Edited September 30, 2020 by section122

[Alaska Darin]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

 

I keep seeing this in the thread but I don't seen any of you acknowledge Trumps complete lack of tact and many attempts to speak over Biden and interrupting at every chance. The moderator had no choice but to continuously jump in to stop Trump from interrupting.  Trump didn't hit his stride until he stopped doing that imo.

He started it!

 

This is where we are in America today 

That's because partisans won't hold their horrible "leaders" accountable.  Stop sending the same cadre of morons back to Washington over and over again and maybe, just maybe the message will get through.

 

Congress has an approval rating consistently lower than 20% yet the same cast of assclowns are the "leaders" with re-election at something like 95%. It's never going to change until the top scummers get voted out.  Turd sandwich versus Giant Douche until death do us part.

[Keukasmallies]

1 minute ago, Alaska Darin said:

That's because partisans won't hold their horrible "leaders" accountable.  Stop sending the same cadre of morons back to Washington over and over again and maybe, just maybe the message will get through.

 

Congress has an approval rating consistently lower than 20% yet the same cast of assclowns are the "leaders."  It's never going to change.  Turd sandwich versus Giant Douche.

 

It could change if there was a determined effort to stop voting for incumbents and support challengers.  One may not be entirely comfortable with many of the challengers, but the greater good is voting the entrenched cabal OUT.

[B-Man]

 

[keepthefaith]

5 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said:

 

It could change if there was a determined effort to stop voting for incumbents and support challengers.  One may not be entirely comfortable with many of the challengers, but the greater good is voting the entrenched cabal OUT.

 

Part of that determined effort is voters better funding challengers.  Incumbents in house and senate races almost always enjoy big funding advantages.  The hard reality is it's really expensive to mount a winning campaign against incumbents.

[Alaska Darin]

2 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Part of that determined effort is voters better funding challengers.  Incumbents in house and senate races almost always enjoy big funding advantages.  The hard reality is it's really expensive to mount a winning campaign against incumbents.

Mostly because of who makes the rules.

[BillStime]

20 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said:

 

When she needs the boost she does, otherwise she's open to whatever the Dem's need at the moment.

 

Ask Hill'ry about the power of poll results. Yeah, I didn't think so....

Remind @Deranged Rhino too! 

[TakeYouToTasker]

21 minutes ago, Keukasmallies said:

 

It could change if there was a determined effort to stop voting for incumbents and support challengers.  One may not be entirely comfortable with many of the challengers, but the greater good is voting the entrenched cabal OUT.

I don’t understand how anyone can look at our government, which has steadily grown in size and scope since day one, power becoming more centralized and more absolute; realize that it has become this way through a democratic republican system; and think that it can be solved at the ballot box.

 

Government doesn’t shrink, and you can’t solve problems created by government with more government.

[The Frankish Reich]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/for-the-sake-of-the-country-cancel-the-remaining-debates/2020/09/30/e68ed090-0334-11eb-a2db-417cddf4816a_story.html

George Will, disgusted. Oh for the days when Republicans in debates tried to remind us of Reagan's shining city on a hill.

 

Most Donald Trump utterances resemble turbid creeks that are silty at their sources and trickle away into mud. He might finish his presidential term without ever speaking a complete sentence — subject, object, predicate. Oliver Wendell Holmes, who characterized Theodore Roosevelt’s Bull Moose movement as one of “strenuous vagueness,” survived Antietam but might have expired straining to decipher Tuesday’s cascade of falsehoods, rudeness and syntactical tangles.