LeGOATski Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said: It seems like I've heard rumors recently about a certain segment of society that wants to defund the police. Then I heard rumors that first responders should not be the police but be people trained in social work. I think I even heard people chanting about this. "Defunding the police" is a nuanced argument and the bargaining that takes place around the matter should hopefully lead to a favorable outcome for both sides. A realistic one. I doubt very many people actually want social workers alone responding to their calls. Try talking to any real person...not just the sensational headlines. 3 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said: I live near Washington DC and my hometown newspaper is the Washington Post. I just checked its website and there's no mention of the deaths. In fact, a search reveals there's been no mention of CHAZ at all in the Post for the last four days. It's as if the editors think if they don't report on it, it doesn't exist or will go away. Published 4 hours ago... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/shooting-in-seattle-protest-zone-leaves-1-dead-1-injured/2020/06/20/92dc4560-b314-11ea-98b5-279a6479a1e4_story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: "Defunding the police" is a nuanced argument and the bargaining that takes place around the matter should hopefully lead to a favorable outcome for both sides. A realistic one. I doubt very many people actually want social workers alone responding to their calls. Try talking to any real person...not just the sensational headlines. IMO, defunding the police is a ridiculous argument. If anything, the budgets and sizes of departments in the highest crime areas should be increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: "Defunding the police" is a nuanced argument and the bargaining that takes place around the matter should hopefully lead to a favorable outcome for both sides. A realistic one. I doubt very many people actually want social workers alone responding to their calls. Try talking to any real person...not just the sensational headlines. There's no nuance involved in the word defund. There are many adjectives that could be used to qualify it but they were not used. Not being precise tends to cause misunderstandings and poor communication. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, 3rdnlng said: Not being precise tends to cause misunderstandings and poor communication. I mean, yeah. That's what I've been saying. It's weird that this isn't reflected in your previous posts, then. Have you just been trying to stir the pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: IMO, defunding the police is a ridiculous argument. If anything, the budgets and sizes of departments in the highest crime areas should be increased. There's no reform in this plan, so it wouldn't solve anything. There's some very good, data-driven information out there that points to which parts of police funding can be reduced, maintained, or increased. In a perfect world, politics plays no part in it, but we all know that's not the case.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Just now, LeGOATski said: There's no reform in this plan, so it wouldn't solve anything. There's some very good, data-driven information out there that points to which parts of police funding can be reduced, maintained, or increased. In a perfect world, politics plays no part in it, but we all know that's not the case.... That wasn't a plan. It was a statement in regard to the idea of reducing the budgets of police departments, particularly in high crime areas. Please show me the data that shows reducing crime was accomplished though decreasing the funding of the respective department that accomplished it. It is the type of policing that matters and community policing approaches have been the most effective in urban areas. That is where the reform really takes place and it cannot be accomplished without increasing personnel and budgets as a starting point. "Defunding" the police is nothing more than a punitive measure in the current environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: It is the type of policing that matters and community policing approaches have been the most effective in urban areas. That is where the reform really takes place and it cannot be accomplished without increasing personnel and budgets as a starting point. This is definitely what the data seems to point to, by my understanding. But I think when all's said and done, the changes would ultimately lead to less overall funding to the police. Not more. Maybe more in some areas, for staffing purposes. https://www.joincampaignzero.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: This is definitely what the data seems to point to, by my understanding. But I think when all's said and done, the changes would ultimately lead to less overall funding to the police. Not more. Maybe more in some areas, for staffing purposes. https://www.joincampaignzero.org/ No offense, but Campaign Zero is not exactly where I would go to look at police reform. There is plenty of legitimate data through DOJ data collection and research, as well as other sources. I am a believer in community policing and reforms in the way we approach policing violent crime ridden black communities. It needs a massive overhaul that cannot be accomplished without an increase in funding and personnel as the first step. The only way that it ultimately leads to less funding is if it is effective. Not before. Don't you find it the least bit interesting that the majority of the people behind this whole "defeund the police" movement are the very same people who beileve the solution to every problem begins with throwing more money at it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Don't you find it the least bit interesting that the majority of the people behind this whole "defeund the police" movement are the very same people who beileve the solution to every problem begins with throwing more money at it? Agree to disagree, but that last bit is not entirely accurate. The money will just be thrown at different areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, LeGOATski said: I mean, yeah. That's what I've been saying. It's weird that this isn't reflected in your previous posts, then. Have you just been trying to stir the pot? WTH are you talking about? You claim that you are the one that is being precise but "defund" means something less than taking all the money away? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 10:04 PM, RocCityRoller said: You seem, once again, to miss the point Violence is bad. The most violence in the USA is in Democrat controlled inner cities, where the majority population is black. The majority of violence is black on black, occurring in cities controlled by Democrat legislators. I know you are too edgy or radical to consider yourself a Democrat, but they publicly have fun espousing your beliefs for votes at election time. Man up and vote independent. At least Jimmy Dore has the balls to speak out. Thousands of black men, women and children are killed every year by black on black crime. It may be what 10k a year? (Edit - the number is 7-10k) Using typical lefty media rhetoric: GregPersons supports 7-10k annual black on black murders. (edited for numbers correction above) Meanwhile about 250-300 black people are killed by police each year. Even the completely biased Washington Post acknowledges this. Were all the cops white? Nope on average 65-75% were, the rest are by black or other minority officers. So taking that into consideration about 180-250 black folks are killed by white officers a year. I guess the media discounts the rest as minority on minority crime? Kind of like the other 10k black murders a year noted above? Why is that discounted GregPersons? Don't Black Lives Matter? Or do some black lives matter more than others? Using typical lefty media rhetoric: GregPersons supports 70-100 minority police killings a year. The Washington post also acknowledges that 500-600 white people are killed by police each year in the USA. The numbers show that twice as many white folks are murdered by the police than black folks. That is a pure number. Let's say 600 white guys are killed by the police, versus 300 black guys. 100 latinos/ asians etc make up the rest. Where is it ok for 1000 people to be killed by the police each year, despite their race? Are you ok with police violence against white people? How about Latinos or Asians? Using typical lefty media rhetoric: GregPersons Supports 600-700 white killings by police each year This is why people claim 'All Lives Matter' GregPersons. 1k killed a year in the USA by the police is absurd. The floating average is 950-1100. Of that count maybe, maybe 180-250 are white on black. It is a minority statistic. Of the terrible 1k killed a year by US Police, only 15-20% of all police murders (yes I said murders) are white police on black incidents Since the USA is 13-14% black the % of deaths by white cops at 15-20% is within the expected ratio. Guess you didn't look at it that way. I discounted the minority police killings of black people, much like Democrats and SJWs discount black on black crime. Using typical lefty media rhetoric: GregPersons wants police to kill more white, hispanic, and asian people to balance out the numbers If you wanted to protest that 1000 citizens killed by the police each year is too much, I would join you, many people would. But a lefty can't but help but bring in racial divide and identity politics into every discussion. Every Single One. This is your weakness. A lot of people, white and black, think the local police may be getting too gun happy/physically tough. But instead of finding a unifying front you have to look for divisions. For you, it has to be about race, and you cancel out statistics that don't align with you, and with that people who would agree with you. Another lefty mistake. Eventually you discount the majority. See 2016. Let me give you a big old clue to red pill thinking, once again. First of all, if Black Lives Mattered as much as the lip service being given, then why are 7-10k black on black deaths excused each year? Don't walk away from it, own it. 7-10k black lives were taken on average every year from 2000-2020. Over 20 years that is almost a quarter million black people killed. But I am the 'racist' for bringing this up? The worst locations have been Dem/left held governed areas for years, even decades. Is it possible the policies of the left don't work in helping elevate the black population? I ask because contrary to your name calling, I don't want 10k black people killed a year in my country, by anyone. If you truly believed 'Black Lives Mattered' you would not turn your head and ignore the slaughter that occurs every year in Democrat/Left controlled cities. The left likes chaos, and uses it to support their vote. Using typical lefty media rhetoric: GregPersons Says 40, 50, 60yrs of Democrat rule plays no role in Black community being stagnant vs other minorities 200-300 vs 10k seems a bit out of whack to me, but I guess a 50x multiplier can be dealt with 'later' in your utopia. Lefty leadership (white and minority) has been so successful in the 40-50 yr reigns of terror they have held over most cities. I also notice that cop vs black man narratives aren't usually against county sheriffs, or state troopers. It is usually the city police departments. If city PD are killing people then the question should be asked, who controls city Police Departments? Say it with me GregPersons, who controls a city PD? Come on GregPersons, I know you can say it. The local mayors and city councils do. Almost every major city in the USA has been left/Democrat controlled for 30, 40, 50 years. If the left/Democrats cared for black folks as much as they claim during a news cycle or during election time, or when one of the few white on black cop crimes happen, then why would they continually oversee such levels of black on black crime? Where is the outrage when a black/latino/Asian cop kills a black man? Where is the outrage when a black person kills another black person? Don't Black Lives Matter GregPersons? At worst this would lead one to believe that even minority mayors and council people don't care about black deaths, or are at best not capable of dealing with the situation. People living in the neighborhood year after year cry out against violence. 'We must change' they say. Yet at election time it is a vote for more of the same. Using typical lefty media rhetoric: GregPersons Says Black Democratically officials not capable of fixing things, will require overthrow of government. If a politician or party do not fear being voted out of office, no change will occur. Why would it? I say all of these things because Black Lives do Matter, but All lives Matter. 'Doing the same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity' - loosely attributed to Einstein. He in your world was obviously racist. Oh damn, that was beautiful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 dead, 1 injured after shooting in Seattle autonomous zone Here's more of that peaceful protesting https://www.yahoo.com/gma/1-dead-1-injured-shooting-seattle-autonomous-zone-173654590--abc-news-topstories.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 3 hours ago, LeGOATski said: That's a sensationalized take. Both were immediately taken to a hospital. They have trained medical people already in the area. Investigators were let in to work the scene after the fact. Without knowing the facts, it seems unreasonable to blame certain people except the actual murderer who pulled the trigger. Not a sensationalized take. Watch the cop cams of the incident. https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2020/06/20/homicide-investigation-inside-protest-area/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: Not a sensationalized take. Watch the cop cams of the incident. https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2020/06/20/homicide-investigation-inside-protest-area/ What a bunch of maniacs. It looks like Bedlam. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 41 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: Not a sensationalized take. Watch the cop cams of the incident. https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2020/06/20/homicide-investigation-inside-protest-area/ The sensationalized take is "they let them die". No one disputed that the cops met resistance. Investigators were later allowed into the area. 2 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: WTH are you talking about? You claim that you are the one that is being precise but "defund" means something less than taking all the money away? the catchphrase is "defund the police" obviously You were taking it a face value, but like everything in life, it goes deeper than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 So that lasted what, a week? Good job. Time to tear it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, LeGOATski said: The sensationalized take is "they let them die". No one disputed that the cops met resistance. Investigators were later allowed into the area. When you are talking about Officers having to be allowed in to investigate a homicide, it is time to put an end to this 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 4 hours ago, LeGOATski said: You were taking it a face value, but like everything in life, it goes deeper than that I keep hearing a lot of people making excuses and saying that's not what it means. However, BLM does not say that and neither does CHOP. Quote 1. The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle. https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-demands-of-the-collective-black-voices-at-free-capitol-hill-to-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47. Seems pretty clear what they want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I keep hearing a lot of people making excuses and saying that's not what it means. However, BLM does not say that and neither does CHOP. https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-demands-of-the-collective-black-voices-at-free-capitol-hill-to-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47. Seems pretty clear what they want. So, you mean defund doesn't mean defund? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 10 hours ago, LeGOATski said: The sensationalized take is "they let them die". No one disputed that the cops met resistance. Investigators were later allowed into the area. the catchphrase is "defund the police" obviously You were taking it a face value, but like everything in life, it goes deeper than that I wonder if the last thought the 19 year old had as he drifted away was “I hope CHAZpital General is accepting new patients.”. This was as predictable as the rain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Sure doesn’t look like any block party I’ve been to. ? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Ugh I get so mad when the corrupt system forcea people to kill one another and then refuses to save them!!! Couldnt have had anything to do with it being 2am and unchecked amounts of alcohol and drugs were being consumed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I thought California was the land of wackos, but Seattle has passed them. If this isn't stopped soon, it'll happen in other cities too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, bilzfancy said: I thought California was the land of wackos, but Seattle has passed them. If this isn't stopped soon, it'll happen in other cities too. My brother in law has lived in Seattle for several years. He has always said Seattle seems to be trying to be the new San Francisco. Looks like they’ve surpassed SF big time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Ol’ Raz ain’t getting much sympathy in the replies to his tweet. 25 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: My brother in law has lived in Seattle for several years. He has always said Seattle seems to be trying to be the new San Francisco. Looks like they’ve surpassed SF big time. It’s too bad. My experience with Seattle consists of a 4 day stay 12 years ago so I’m hardly an expert, but at the time it seemed like a really cool city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) Today in the Seattle Times they had a long article about CHOP, "Deadly shooting in CHOP leads to questions and soul-searching." In the article there was a picture of a guy with an AR-15 type rifle with a banana clip (high capacity magazine) strapped on his chest with his trousers tucked into his army boots and wearing a bullet proof vest. I found the caption somewhat ironic. "A man who goes by Lloyd, walks through CHOP on Saturday, carrying a weapon. Lloyd said it was his first day in CHOP and he's involved with anti-racist groups. "I'm here to deescalate," he said. "I don't want to have to fire this for any reason." In other words, he's like a cop in a no cop zone, but better armed. I read this in the old school hard copy newspaper and could not find it online, thus no link. Edited June 22, 2020 by reddogblitz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 6 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Today in the Seattle Times they had a long article about CHOP, "Deadly shooting in CHOP leads to questions and soul-searching." In the article there was a picture of a guy with an AR-15 type rifle with a banana clip (high capacity magazine) strapped on his chest with his trousers tucked into his army boots and wearing a bullet proof vest. I found the caption somewhat ironic. "A man who goes by Lloyd, walks through CHOP on Saturday, carrying a weapon. Lloyd said it was his first day in CHOP and he's involved with anti-racist groups. "I'm here to deescalate," he said. "I don't want to have to fire this for any reason." In other words, he's like a cop in a no cop zone, but better armed. I read this in the old school hard copy newspaper and could not find it online, thus no link. Please refrain from using the term banana clip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 21 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: They are not going into any are that they consider unsafe, nor should they #EMSLivesMatter 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 22 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: All part of the growing pains of a fledgling country. Give em 200 years and they won't be able to tell which graffiti is good and which graffiti is insensitive. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8446385/Two-shootings-investigated-inside-Seattles-cop-free-protest-zone.html CHOP is a great place to raise a family. I hope they expand their borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 WTAF is this?! CHOP sets up black-only areas because THAT’S not racist or anything (watch) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 39 minutes ago, B-Man said: WTAF is this?! CHOP sets up black-only areas because THAT’S not racist or anything (watch) Segregation is also listed in their demands. Quote Related to economic demands, we also have demands pertaining to what we would formally call “Health and Human Services.” We demand the hospitals and care facilities of Seattle employ black doctors and nurses specifically to help care for black patients. https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-demands-of-the-collective-black-voices-at-free-capitol-hill-to-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Segregation is also listed in their demands. https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-demands-of-the-collective-black-voices-at-free-capitol-hill-to-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47 I feel bad for the real residents and businesses of that area. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, bilzfancy said: I feel bad for the real residents and businesses of that area. They should DO something. I don't mean violence, but as the Lefties say "silence is consent" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, bilzfancy said: I feel bad for the real residents and businesses of that area. They voted in this mess. Unfortunately, it's too late to vote themselves out of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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