PHI Eagles projected to be $40+M over the cap in 2021

[machine gun kelly]

Selfishly, if they have to purge talent next year, I wonder who is still in their prime we could use on this team.  We have an excellent team, but I’m always open to more talent.  DJ is all but gone, but that’s not enough, and no I would never want to see that guy on our team.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Selfishly, if they have to purge talent next year, I wonder who is still in their prime we could use on this team.  We have an excellent team, but I’m always open to more talent.  DJ is all but gone, but that’s not enough, and no I would never want to see that guy on our team.

No idea who will actually come available, but I’m probably looking at Ertz and the lines.  A vet like Lane Johnson or a player coming off their rookie deal that they can’t afford to keep   Maybe someone who wouldn’t be expensive like Hassan Ridgeway to rotate at DT.  Dunno, but something has to give. 
 

It’s such a weird situation.  Their cap structure looks like what you’d see for a team with a franchise QB at the end of his career where they’re just trying to milk out one more SB run before a tear down.  It’s like an industrial strength version of what the Steelers have done.  

Edited July 8, 2020 by BarleyNY

[Thurman#1]

On 4/29/2020 at 1:43 AM, Mango said:

They can do it but they'd really be missing some players. 

 

Alshon's cap # is $18 mil, cut post-June 1 next year: $5 mil dead cap

Desean's cap # is $11 mil, cut post-June 1 next year: $2 mil dead cap

Goodwin's cap # is $7 mil, $0 guaranteed

Brandon Graham, who will be due $18 mil next year, will be 33, and has a $5 mil dead cap # post-June 1/

Jason Kelce who has talked about retirement each of the past 2 offseasons which would save $8 mil.

 

 

 

$30 mill in roster bonuses and option bonuses. If they turn those into signing bonuses they could cut a lot depending how long the various contracts are or will be.

 

But that'd just be kicking the can down the road. Still might be part of the plan, though.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

$30 mill in roster bonuses and option bonuses. If they turn those into signing bonuses they could cut a lot depending how long the various contracts are or will be.

 

But that'd just be kicking the can down the road. Still might be part of the plan, though.

 

Nice to see this thread get kick started again. I started it months ago. With so much going on I would have to refresh. 

[Thurman#1]

23 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

The hell you say! You don't win trophies for being good! You win them for having the most cap space. I'm pretty sure I've got that right.

 

 

You do. Having cap space, when you've got a GM who knows what he's doing, can turn into wins. Having no cap space can turn into the GM having to give away guys he'd rather keep, which can then mean losses. It's certainly not an exact correlation but having cap space is absolutely a positive for a GM, giving him freedom.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Nice to see this thread get kick started again. I started it months ago. With so much going on I would have to refresh. 

 

 

Ah, that's why the figures were off. The Eagles are closer to $60 mill over next year now.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Malazan]

58 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

You do. Having cap space, when you've got a GM who knows what he's doing, can turn into wins. Having no cap space can turn into the GM having to give away guys he'd rather keep, which can then mean losses. It's certainly not an exact correlation but having cap space is absolutely a positive for a GM, giving him freedom.

 

What a horrendous misunderstanding. I hope you recover soon.

[T master]

Does this mean Shady is not going to Philly this year ? 

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

What a horrendous misunderstanding. I hope you recover soon.

 

What can I say.... Bills fans love cap space. It is almost ingrained in us. It is the hope "yea we sucked but we have 1 trillion dollars in cap space so we will be good soon." What makes you good is having high end players and those cost money to sign and retain. 

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

No idea who will actually come available, but I’m probably looking at Ertz and the lines.  A vet like Lane Johnson or a player coming off their rookie deal that they can’t afford to keep   Maybe someone who wouldn’t be expensive like Hassan Ridgeway to rotate at DT.  Dunno, but something has to give. 
 

It’s such a weird situation.  Their cap structure looks like what you’d see for a team with a franchise QB at the end of his career where they’re just trying to milk out one more SB run before a tear down.  It’s like an industrial strength version of what the Steelers have done.  

 

Yea their strengths are the lines. Quality and depth on both sides. Howie is a build it from the front GM. Their roster construct is slightly unusual which is, I think, explained by two things - 1. Howie subscribes to the Buddy Nix school of build your team then get your Quarterback when the kid is set up to succeed. So even at he point Wentz arrived they were a veteran team. 2. The two year GM disaster that was Chip Kelly. Many of the key pieces in their Superbowl run - Graham, Johnson, Kendricks, Cox, Kelce, Curry, Ertz (and Nick Foles of course!) had been drafted by Roseman before he ceded control to Kelly. Then in two years the only player Kelly drafted who ended up making a contribution to that team was Agholor. So when Howie took the reigns again he picked up where he left off building and managed to get his hands on a Quarterback by trading up for Wentz. 

[DCofNC]

Next up, KC

[BillsfaninSB]

On 7/8/2020 at 10:35 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

What can I say.... Bills fans love cap space. It is almost ingrained in us. It is the hope "yea we sucked but we have 1 trillion dollars in cap space so we will be good soon." What makes you good is having high end players and those cost money to sign and retain. 

Totally get your point.  I’m not a cap space guy either.  You spend it to be good.  But to be over that much for a mediocre team that likely would have not made the playoffs if they were in any other division is definitely interesting.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Totally get your point.  I’m not a cap space guy either.  You spend it to be good.  But to be over that much for a mediocre team that likely would have not made the playoffs if they were in any other division is definitely interesting.

 

They are an old team, that is true. Most of their better players are 29 and over. But they won a Superbowl in their window and then have been back to the playoffs both seasons since, which is not that common for teams coming off a Superbowl appearance in the NFC. Being over the cap in that scenario is not that surprising or unusual. There are also some relatively easy decisions for them in the next 12 months to manage the cap going forward. The one really bad contract they did IMO was Brandon Graham. His extension felt like an emotional decision (the guy who made THE play in the Superbowl) rather than a rational one. 

[machine gun kelly]

In addition to the Eagles being over next by $60+ mil., Atlanta is over by $20 mil., and the Saints at $47 mil.  The Saints might be fine if Brees does retire as has been speculated before, but if I’m the Saints, Id do what I could to keep Brees for as long as he keeps playing at this high level.  P. Manning fell off that last year in performance, and some say Brady (I don’t think so, just his talent at WR and TE sucked), but Brees is playing just as well as he did 5 years ago.

 

If I were a Saints fan, I would be frustrated.  Three years ago that MN miracle was a night mare for them, then the next year the OPI was nuts.  Last year, they legitimately lost, but to be that close and keep losing in the end blows.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

In addition to the Eagles being over next by $60+ mil., Atlanta is over by $20 mil., and the Saints at $47 mil.  The Saints might be fine if Brees does retire as has been speculated before, but if I’m the Saints, Id do what I could to keep Brees for as long as he keeps playing at this high level.  P. Manning fell off that last year in performance, and some say Brady (I don’t think so, just his talent at WR and TE sucked), but Brees is playing just as well as he did 5 years ago.

 

If I were a Saints fan, I would be frustrated.  Three years ago that MN miracle was a night mare for them, then the next year the OPI was nuts.  Last year, they legitimately lost, but to be that close and keep losing in the end blows.

 

I fear the Saints window has closed. Of those three teams the one that is really in cap hell is Atlanta. Their cap situation is legitimately a mess. 

[machine gun kelly]

GB, you might be right, but IDK if you listen to movin the chains in the afternoons, but those guys have been breaking down each unit over the last few weeks.  They are on secondaries now, which Buffalo rated supposedly in the top 10.  They don’t rate the top 5 until the 9th day taking one division at a time.  It’s great as they don’t spend their whole show covering BLM or COVID-19.  Don’t get me wrong, I understand it should be part of a conversation as we’ve doing for months, but they really try to have a theme each day that is football related.

 

So what’s my point?  The Saints have ranked with each unit O Line, RB’s, WR/TE’s, Defensive fronts, etc.) in the top 10 based on the data.  Their window may be closing, but doubt it’s this year.  It’s pretty cool as they look at their starters, back ups, etc. etc.
 

Those Saints, Bucs games are going to be fun to watch..  Also, the NFCS is playing the AFCW, and NFCN this year so the Saints and Bucs will have the Chiefs, Packers, Broncos, and Vikings.  Those are going to be some fun matchups.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

GB, you might be right, but IDK if you listen to movin the chains in the afternoons, but those guys have been breaking down each unit over the last few weeks.  They are on secondaries now, which Buffalo rated supposedly in the top 10.  They don’t rate the top 5 until the 9th day taking one division at a time.  It’s great as they don’t spend their whole show covering BLM or COVID-19.  Don’t get me wrong, I understand it should be part of a conversation as we’ve doing for months, but they really try to have a theme each day that is football related.

 

So what’s my point?  The Saints have ranked with each unit O Line, RB’s, WR/TE’s, Defensive fronts, etc.) in the top 10 based on the data.  Their window may be closing, but doubt it’s this year.  It’s pretty cool as they look at their starters, back ups, etc. etc.
 

Those Saints, Bucs games are going to be fun to watch..  Also, the NFCS is playing the AFCW, and NFCN this year so the Saints and Bucs will have the Chiefs, Packers, Broncos, and Vikings.  Those are going to be some fun matchups.

 

I really hope the Saints window hasn't closed. Drew is my favourite non Bill NFL player. But I don't think his deep ball is there anymore and so in tight games when you need that one play to break it open I am not sure it is there. 2 years ago should have been their 2nd ring. They'd have beaten the Pats in the Superbowl. 

[machine gun kelly]

I couldn’t agree more which is what pissed me off so much about that bad call in the NFC Championship game.  Brees, Kamara, Thomas, and Peyton would have spanked the Patsies.  I was also so annoyed the Falcons imploded.  Then the great Cheaters would have been 4 and 4, and the Falcons would have won their first.  I like seeing teams that have never won the SB get their ring.  Just stinks for Vikings, Lions, Browns, Falcons, Chargers, Titans, Texans, Panthers, and evening the Jags.  It’s crazy in 54 years 28% of the league has never won a SB.

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I couldn’t agree more which is what pissed me off so much about that bad call in the NFC Championship game.  Brees, Kamara, Thomas, and Peyton would have spanked the Patsies.  I was also so annoyed the Falcons imploded.  Then the great Cheaters would have been 4 and 4, and the Falcons would have won their first.  I like seeing teams that have never won the SB get their ring.  Just stinks for Vikings, Lions, Browns, Falcons, Chargers, Titans, Texans, Panthers, and evening the Jags.  It’s crazy in 54 years 28% of the league has never won a SB.

 

Every team needs an "emergency injury on field".  When they come out after halftime and opposing teams seems to have adjusted and you have not you need extended time to figure out what do do.  Emmitt Smith was good for a few of these plays a game where he would get injured, offense would get a break against dominating defense and when they came back out were able to handle it.  Emmitt would come back, sometimes after just 1 play off, and announcers would make comments how it was a miracle when they should have called it a fare citing how many other games he did same thing.

[CSBill]

On 7/11/2020 at 4:59 AM, machine gun kelly said:

In addition to the Eagles being over next by $60+ mil., Atlanta is over by $20 mil., and the Saints at $47 mil.  The Saints might be fine if Brees does retire as has been speculated before, but if I’m the Saints, Id do what I could to keep Brees for as long as he keeps playing at this high level.  P. Manning fell off that last year in performance, and some say Brady (I don’t think so, just his talent at WR and TE sucked), but Brees is playing just as well as he did 5 years ago.

 

If I were a Saints fan, I would be frustrated.  Three years ago that MN miracle was a night mare for them, then the next year the OPI was nuts.  Last year, they legitimately lost, but to be that close and keep losing in the end blows.

 

Yeah, "but to be that close and keep losing in the end blows" ... know any fans that can relate to that ????

[FireChans]

On 7/11/2020 at 6:55 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I really hope the Saints window hasn't closed. Drew is my favourite non Bill NFL player. But I don't think his deep ball is there anymore and so in tight games when you need that one play to break it open I am not sure it is there. 2 years ago should have been their 2nd ring. They'd have beaten the Pats in the Superbowl. 

They are certainly on the tail end of being closed. Next year, Thomas’ cap hit balloons, older players like Jordan and Davis will be on their way out, Kamara will walk and that team will look radically different in 2 years.

[NoSaint]

45 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They are certainly on the tail end of being closed. Next year, Thomas’ cap hit balloons, older players like Jordan and Davis will be on their way out, Kamara will walk and that team will look radically different in 2 years.

It’s Drew’s last year. The windows closing. They will see what happens at qb after but that’s a matter of opening a new window 

On 7/11/2020 at 6:25 AM, machine gun kelly said:

I couldn’t agree more which is what pissed me off so much about that bad call in the NFC Championship game.  Brees, Kamara, Thomas, and Peyton would have spanked the Patsies.  I was also so annoyed the Falcons imploded.  Then the great Cheaters would have been 4 and 4, and the Falcons would have won their first.  I like seeing teams that have never won the SB get their ring.  Just stinks for Vikings, Lions, Browns, Falcons, Chargers, Titans, Texans, Panthers, and evening the Jags.  It’s crazy in 54 years 28% of the league has never won a SB.

it’s really a shame the saints didn’t get another ring. Hell of a stretch of losses in the playoffs. 
 

that whiffed tackle on diggs, the obvious rams call, etc... i want to say in a 10 year run they had like 5 playoff losses on the final play (vikes x2, beastquake, rams, and I think niners if I remember correctly)  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

They are certainly on the tail end of being closed. Next year, Thomas’ cap hit balloons, older players like Jordan and Davis will be on their way out, Kamara will walk and that team will look radically different in 2 years.

 

I think it already has. Though I hope I am wrong. 

[prissythecat]

Wow .  How are the Eagles going to re-sign Jason Peters with that kind of cap disaster.   

[BuffaloBills1998]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:53 AM, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Without looking into it, what is Carson wentz dead cap next year? Maybe there was more to the jalen hurts pick

I agree. I think Philly knows that there probably gonna have to cut him loose if he doesn’t restructure or if he doesn’t stay healthy this year. I said the same thing when they drafted Hurts, I was thinking to myself it’s far fetched but could they be gearing up to replace wentz and send Wentz packing

9 hours ago, prissythecat said:

Wow .  How are the Eagles going to re-sign Jason Peters with that kind of cap disaster.   

They’re not, they’re in trouble in 2021 

[machine gun kelly]

Well the dead cap in 2021 on Wentz is incredibly so I seriously doubt they cut him.  Really the first time he could be cut without a monster penalty is 2024.  That is if I read Spotrac correctly.  

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, prissythecat said:

Wow .  How are the Eagles going to re-sign Jason Peters with that kind of cap disaster.   

 

They won't because he's done.  They don't need him at T and he wouldn't play G.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They won't because he's done.  They don't need him at T and he wouldn't play G.

 

Agree. Lots of people saying they will re-sign him to play right guard now their right guard has gone down hurt.... that is ludicrous to me. Taking a 37 year old left tackle and trying to plug him in at guard?

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Well the dead cap in 2021 on Wentz is incredibly so I seriously doubt they cut him.  Really the first time he could be cut without a monster penalty is 2024.  That is if I read Spotrac correctly.  

 

They can get out AFTER 2021 for $24.5m with no single year of dead cap hit bigger than $15.5m. If they keep him an extra year (and get out after 2022) they can get out for $15m total and no single year hit bigger than $9m.

 

Basically he is definitely the Eagles starter for 2 more seasons. So he has two more opportunities to prove he can stay healthy.

[CBennett]

it happens..they did what the Bills did back at the end of the "Flutie Era" in 1999 with that Music City FARCE game. They loaded up to win a SB...the Eagles won it now they will reap the rewards of winning a SB and having bloated contracts to have done so.

 

Bills did the same thing and got screwed over..that 1999 Music City FARCE game WAS 100% a SB contender/worthy team..they loaded up they got screwed by the league...and then they reaped the rewards of "loading up" for a SB run ....they just didnt make it...

 

If I were a Eagles fan I sure wouldnt be mad I mean just a couple years ago they were WORLD CHAMPS!!!   Would you really be mad if the Bills won the SB this year then 3 years from now with Josh's big contract they were in 'cap trouble" and had to cut guys..id not be if we had just won the SB in the last 3 years...

[machine gun kelly]

Music City Debacle is my choice for that nightmare. Thanks Ralph for choosing Job Robson vs. Flutie who put you there.

[BuffaloBills1998]

5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Well the dead cap in 2021 on Wentz is incredibly so I seriously doubt they cut him.  Really the first time he could be cut without a monster penalty is 2024.  That is if I read Spotrac correctly.  

They could trade him to someone else instead of cutting him 

2 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Music City Debacle is my choice for that nightmare. Thanks Ralph for choosing Job Robson vs. Flutie who put you there.

Honestly even though I’m a Flutie fan, neither QB was really any good. I give more credit to our defense and running game in 99

[billsfan89]

On 7/7/2020 at 7:57 AM, The Frankish Reich said:

Desean Jackson is making the tough decisions just a little bit easier:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29422431/eagles-desean-jackson-says-hate-jewish-community-posting-anti-semitic-messages

 

Quoting Hitler with approval (or at least what you think was said by Hitler) is generally not a career-enhancing move.

 

They drafted two WR's high up this year and traded for Goodwin. The WR corps were getting crowded before D-Jax did this and now it looks like he is already solidifying his exit. D-Jax last year was banged up last year and is older for his type of player. The Eagles cap wise should see Goodwin, Jeffery, and D-Jax out the door by 2021 if not 2020. 

[billsfan89]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They can get out AFTER 2021 for $24.5m with no single year of dead cap hit bigger than $15.5m. If they keep him an extra year (and get out after 2022) they can get out for $15m total and no single year hit bigger than $9m.

 

Basically he is definitely the Eagles starter for 2 more seasons. So he has two more opportunities to prove he can stay healthy.

 

Last year Wentz proved to me he can stay healthy. Even in 2018 and 2017 he played 11 and 13 games. He just has had some horrid luck getting hurt late in seasons. He has been banged up but he played all 16 games in 2019 and was a top 5ish QB. I think if he can overcome these injuries he will be more than worth that contract as hefty as it is. 

[machine gun kelly]

I’d take him over Goff.  Better than the Winston/Marriotta thing.

[GunnerBill]

41 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Last year Wentz proved to me he can stay healthy. Even in 2018 and 2017 he played 11 and 13 games. He just has had some horrid luck getting hurt late in seasons. He has been banged up but he played all 16 games in 2019 and was a top 5ish QB. I think if he can overcome these injuries he will be more than worth that contract as hefty as it is. 

 

I am not as sold on him as a top 5 guy..... he did play well down the stretch in 2019 but he was bad early (albeit on a beaten up team). That said he is a franchise QB, he is a guy you pay 100 times out of 100 and I don't even think the contract was that hefty. You want to keep a franchise QB then you have to pay him. I think Wentz will be there long term in Philly, but he has to be more consistent for me to go all in on him as a QB. He is borderline top 10 for me at the moment. I do think the Eagles are concerned still about his ability to stay healthy though. And that is a legit concern. 

[prissythecat]

56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not as sold on him as a top 5 guy..... he did play well down the stretch in 2019 but he was bad early (albeit on a beaten up team). That said he is a franchise QB, he is a guy you pay 100 times out of 100 and I don't even think the contract was that hefty. You want to keep a franchise QB then you have to pay him. I think Wentz will be there long term in Philly, but he has to be more consistent for me to go all in on him as a QB. He is borderline top 10 for me at the moment. I do think the Eagles are concerned still about his ability to stay healthy though. And that is a legit concern. 

 

I recall a few posters here were thinking that the Eagles should have traded Wentz and kept Foles :p   "Foles throws a catchable ball"   Lol

[prissythecat]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They won't because he's done.  They don't need him at T and he wouldn't play G.

 

 

Eagles paid Peters a ton of money during his career there.  Was it really worth it ?  ?   Peters was essentially a  non-factor the season they won the SuperBowl because he was out before mid-season due to ACL. This seems to reinforce idea that teams can make a serious Superbowl run with replacement level left tackle.  I know folks here like to say you have to pay lots of money for your LT.

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

Eagles paid Peters a ton of money during his career there.  Was it really worth it ?  ?   Peters was essentially a  non-factor the season they won the SuperBowl because he was out before mid-season due to ACL. This seems to reinforce idea that teams can make a serious Superbowl run with replacement level left tackle.  I know folks here like to say you have to pay lots of money for your LT.

 

Was Jason Peters a future HoFer worth it? 

 

Yes. Yes, he was. Next question. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not as sold on him as a top 5 guy..... he did play well down the stretch in 2019 but he was bad early (albeit on a beaten up team). That said he is a franchise QB, he is a guy you pay 100 times out of 100 and I don't even think the contract was that hefty. You want to keep a franchise QB then you have to pay him. I think Wentz will be there long term in Philly, but he has to be more consistent for me to go all in on him as a QB. He is borderline top 10 for me at the moment. I do think the Eagles are concerned still about his ability to stay healthy though. And that is a legit concern. 

 

Last year really impressed me with Wentz. He had zero receiving help outside of thier tight ends (which isn't nothing but you need more to throw to.) Alshon got hurt, D-Jax got hurt, Agholor was ineffective when out there and he still got hurt, and they even had an injury or two to their fourth and fifth string guys. 

 

The Eagles O-line also was super banged up and older so it wasn't like he was playing with a lot time or with a dominating rushing attack. Yet he still turned in a top 10 season at QB regardless of context (and when factoring in the context of the season you could argue top 5.) His issue is health after 2019 in my opinion. Because in 2017 before his first major injury he likely would have been the league MVP. He had a very shaky 2018 and got hurt eventually but in 2019 he really played really well. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Last year really impressed me with Wentz. He had zero receiving help outside of thier tight ends (which isn't nothing but you need more to throw to.) Alshon got hurt, D-Jax got hurt, Agholor was ineffective when out there and he still got hurt, and they even had an injury or two to their fourth and fifth string guys. 

 

The Eagles O-line also was super banged up and older so it wasn't like he was playing with a lot time or with a dominating rushing attack. Yet he still turned in a top 10 season at QB regardless of context (and when factoring in the context of the season you could argue top 5.) His issue is health after 2019 in my opinion. Because in 2017 before his first major injury he likely would have been the league MVP. He had a very shaky 2018 and got hurt eventually but in 2019 he really played really well. 

 

It definitely was not a top 5 season. Top 5 second half? That is a better argument. The first half of last year Wentz was part of the problem in Philly. He definitely played well down the stretch and when throwing to trash cans at receiver but the first 8 games he was holding the ball forever, missing wide open receivers and generally failing to run the offense efficiently. 

 

I have seen enough to believe Wentz can be a top 10 Quarterback... but not enough consistency to say that he definitely IS at this stage. He is right on the cusp for me.