Prospect discussion: Antonio Gibson

[NewEra]

Am I the only guy here who thinks he’s the perfect addition to this team and would pull the trigger on him at 54?  6’1 225+ 4.39 with the ability to break every play for a TD.  Super strong lower body that has cutback ability and the wheels to get to top speed in a hurry.

 

played Wr in college.  Decent route runner.  Showed solid hands.  44 catches in college.  10 of them for Td.  33 rushes last season.....for 369 and 4 tds.  11.2 ypc.

 

we need dangerous players.  Players that are a threat to score every time they get the ball.  Gibson is that guy and he can do it playing RB, WR and as a returner.  
 

whats not to like?  Pass pro because he’s never done it and he only played out of the power.

 

Who here has taken a serious look at him and what do you think?

 

seems like most mocks have him rd 3-5 but i think he’s going 2-3.  Too much big play ability 

 

edit:  on a side note.  I would now be ok with drafting Clyde Edwards-Helaire.  I was against the thought previously, but after watching a bunch of game tape on him today (after only watch highlights prior).  He makes BIG plays and I’m not sure anyone In this draft has his explosion through the LOS (maybe Taylor).  His catching ability really sets him apart.  I don’t think he falls to 54 though 

Edited April 13, 2020 by NewEra

[Rk_Bills86]

I like him - but not in round 2. I think the round 3-5 projection for him is accurate and if you told me we traded into another 3rd/4th to get him - i'd be ok with it. 

[whatdrought]

I like him, but even round 3 is kinda high for me. My big concern is that he doesn’t truly have a position. He’s got value as a back, and value as a receiver. That versatility is nice, but there’s been a lot of guys who are unknowns/tweeners who struggle to put it together.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

I like him, but even round 3 is kinda high for me. My big concern is that he doesn’t truly have a position. He’s got value as a back, and value as a receiver. That versatility is nice, but there’s been a lot of guys who are unknowns/tweeners who struggle to put it together.

Yeah....I’m not sure how being used as a RB AND a WR can be used against someone.  He has something that every team wants and needs.  Big play ability.  Size and speed.  The ability to run out of the backfield AND split out wide AND play the slot.  Sign me up.  
 

maybe I’m missing something regarding his route running and hands?  While he’s not Jerry jeudy running routes, he doesn’t look terrible.  Just doesn’t have an advanced route tree at this point.  Which I guess is why he’s not viewed as a 2nd rd pick. 
 

 

[OldTimer1960]

Before a team spends even a late 3rd or even 4th round pick on him, they need to figure out why his college coaches only game him 77 total touches from the LOS in 2 full seasons.  If he is truly the dynamic play maker that his athletic ability suggests, wouldn't his coaches found ways to get the ball into his hands far more often?  

 

For contrast, Wisconsin gave Jonathan Taylor 346 combined rushes and catches just this past season.

 

Maybe there is a very good reason that Gibson's coaches didn't use him much more often, but I think a team has to understand the answer before investing in him.

[whatdrought]

56 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah....I’m not sure how being used as a RB AND a WR can be used against someone.  He has something that every team wants and needs.  Big play ability.  Size and speed.  The ability to run out of the backfield AND split out wide AND play the slot.  Sign me up.  
 

maybe I’m missing something regarding his route running and hands?  While he’s not Jerry jeudy running routes, he doesn’t look terrible.  Just doesn’t have an advanced route tree at this point.  Which I guess is why he’s not viewed as a 2nd rd pick. 
 

 

The argument against, whether it’s accurate or not, is that he’s a jack of all trades, master of none type. We’ve seen that lately with Cordelle Patterson, Paris Campbell, and others. Guys without a position can struggle to be consistent impact players. 
 

I think he’d be great for us as guy we move around, but I’m not sure I’d like him before the 3rd.  

[GunnerBill]

No way I'd take him on day 2. Somewhere on day 3? Sure. 

[ChattanoogaBills]

I like him but if you knew other teams weren't going to draft him until round 5. Why would you draft him way earlier??

 

 

[DCOrange]

5 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I like him, but even round 3 is kinda high for me. My big concern is that he doesn’t truly have a position. He’s got value as a back, and value as a receiver. That versatility is nice, but there’s been a lot of guys who are unknowns/tweeners who struggle to put it together.

This is pretty much where I’m at too. My feelings might change if we bring in a legitimate RB to play with Singletary first, but there’s no way IMO that we can head into the year with Yeldon and Gibson as his backups.

 

Obviously an extremely explosive threat once you get the ball in his hands. He doesn’t really know how to play any position right now though. Obviously role for him to replace McKenzie early on if we wanted to train him as a WR though. 
 

He’s a 5th round guy for me with our current roster construction. 

[CapeBreton]

3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Before a team spends even a late 3rd or even 4th round pick on him, they need to figure out why his college coaches only game him 77 total touches from the LOS in 2 full seasons.  If he is truly the dynamic play maker that his athletic ability suggests, wouldn't his coaches found ways to get the ball into his hands far more often?  

 

For contrast, Wisconsin gave Jonathan Taylor 346 combined rushes and catches just this past season.

 

Maybe there is a very good reason that Gibson's coaches didn't use him much more often, but I think a team has to understand the answer before investing in him.

He’s similar to Tony Pollard last year, both look awesome when they get the ball but they got very few touches at Memphis. I feel like Antonio Gibson is getting more interest this year so we’d probably have to use a 3rd on him which is too much, would prefer to grab him in round 4. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I think this guy is an interesting player, but like others have said, I think being a slash type player can sometimes hurt a guy. He certainty has the size and the speed to be a receiver, so why are they thinking running back when he is so unrefined there? He is one of the more interesting offensive players in the draft. 
 

I will say this, to me he looks like a faster version of TJ Yeldon, without the running back experience. To me, this guy is already on our team. I’m not sure that this is the type of guy this regime will target. I think they like guys like Singletary who had to carry the load for his team and have experience carrying the football. 

[ChanticleerBillsFan]

4 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Before a team spends even a late 3rd or even 4th round pick on him, they need to figure out why his college coaches only game him 77 total touches from the LOS in 2 full seasons.  If he is truly the dynamic play maker that his athletic ability suggests, wouldn't his coaches found ways to get the ball into his hands far more often?  

 

For contrast, Wisconsin gave Jonathan Taylor 346 combined rushes and catches just this past season.

 

Maybe there is a very good reason that Gibson's coaches didn't use him much more often, but I think a team has to understand the answer before investing in him.

Agreed, just doesn’t make sense. I mean it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t draft him but would need a deep dive into why this was the case

[Blokestradamus]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

Obviously an extremely explosive threat once you get the ball in his hands. He doesn’t really know how to play any position right now though.

 

I remember the same quandry with Braxton Miller. The NFL is seldom the place where you get the time to re-invent yourself.

[The Jokeman]

14 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

I remember the same quandry with Braxton Miller. The NFL is seldom the place where you get the time to re-invent yourself.

If Gibson can produce as a returnman then he's an ideal depth guy that can develop more on the bench. He's the type of guy I could see the Patriots going after since need help at WR and guys like White/Burkhead contracts ending after this season. 

[Hermes]

I think a similar player with more upside is Lynn Bowden.  He was poised to have a breakout season on the biletnikoff and hornung watchlist, injuries to the top 2 QBs on the Kentucky roster forced him to play QB.

 

His stock dropped but he mostly played as a running back while throwing occasionally.  From what I've seen I believe he's going to come in and make a huge impact.  Hopefully for the Bills

[Blokestradamus]

15 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

If Gibson can produce as a returnman then he's an ideal depth guy that can develop more on the bench. He's the type of guy I could see the Patriots going after since need help at WR and guys like White/Burkhead contracts ending after this season. 

 

He does clearly seem to be decent as a kick returner. With his size/speed, maybe he can be used as a gunner as well early on. Any added value he can attach to himself in the short term is going to be huge in terms of buying him time on an active roster.

[TigerJ]

I have mentioned Gibson in multiple posts.  I'd pick him on day 3.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

To me, the same argument could be made against drafting Chase Claypool at 54.  Yes, he was a WR at Notre Dame and put up good numbers (at least his senior season), but he has a lot of work to do to become a polished NFL WR, IMO.  Is he a physical freak?  Yes.  But he is not a good route runner yet, tends to struggle against press coverage (despite his physicality), and doesn’t do much after the catch.  Sounds more like a TE to me.  Very similar to a Darren Waller.

 

That said, I think we are finally in a position with the state of our roster to draft players like Gibson and Claypool.  With the exception of RB, IMO, we have pretty good depth at all positions.  We can afford to develop these players as long as they can play well on special teams.  I trust Beane has the good judgment to take calculated risks with these types of guys.

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Hermes said:

I think a similar player with more upside is Lynn Bowden.  He was poised to have a breakout season on the biletnikoff and hornung watchlist, injuries to the top 2 QBs on the Kentucky roster forced him to play QB.

 

His stock dropped but he mostly played as a running back while throwing occasionally.  From what I've seen I believe he's going to come in and make a huge impact.  Hopefully for the Bills

 

I would say the opposite. Bowden to me is a lower ceiling version of Gibson. I'm not particularly interested in either. Gibson is a 4th-5th round guy to me. I don't think I'd really draft Bowden at all; I just don't see it with him. Equally raw but less explosive with the ball in his hands.

[njbuff]

Does anyone know if the Bills spoke with him?

[T master]

Let me start by saying i don't know much at all about Gibson but given what i've read about him i would think what we know about Beane & company that he has been looked at by the scouting department .

 

I think he would be a great compliment to Singletary & if he is half of what they say he is in the articles that i have read he could push Motor for the starting spot due to his speed & big play ability, Singletary wouldn't be benched unless this guy was all that & a bag of chips but the way Beane finds those type of players late in the draft Singletary, Millano, & the others this could be another to bring in ! 

 

If he is there in the third i would hope that they grab him to be that guy to compliment Singletary this year .

[DCOrange]

12 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Does anyone know if the Bills spoke with him?

Not that the public is aware of. Didn't scout Memphis games either.

Edited April 13, 2020 by DCOrange

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

No way I'd take him on day 2. Somewhere on day 3? Sure. 

but why?  That’s my purpose of the thread?  Is it his get off the LOS?  Can’t handle press?  Bad route running?  When I look at his tape, I don’t see any glaring problems.  
 

if I had to compare him to other RBs in this draft class, I’d say he’s a bigger version of Dobbins.  Neither have ability to make you miss like CEH or Motor.  They have home run ability that has to be accounted for. 
 

I really see his biggest “con” per say is the inexperience with pro style offenses.  Which could be huge, no doubt. 

5 hours ago, whatdrought said:

The argument against, whether it’s accurate or not, is that he’s a jack of all trades, master of none type. We’ve seen that lately with Cordelle Patterson, Paris Campbell, and others. Guys without a position can struggle to be consistent impact players. 
 

I think he’d be great for us as guy we move around, but I’m not sure I’d like him before the 3rd.  

Makes sense.  I haven’t given up on Campbell yet but I can see the Patterson comparison.  Only difference to me is their hands.  Patterson was always a body catcher.  

5 hours ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

I like him but if you knew other teams weren't going to draft him until round 5. Why would you draft him way earlier??

 

 

How do you know that?  You don’t and never will

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

but why?  That’s my purpose of the thread?  Is it his get off the LOS?  Can’t handle press?  Bad route running?  When I look at his tape, I don’t see any glaring problems.  
 

if I had to compare him to other RBs in this draft class, I’d say he’s a bigger version of Dobbins.  Neither have ability to make you miss like CEH or Motor.  They have home run ability that has to be accounted for. 
 

I really see his biggest “con” per say is the inexperience with pro style offenses.  Which could be huge, no doubt. 

 

I haven't seen enough production, I think he is a bit stiff, I don't like his route running as a receiver (sloppy breaks especially) and as a runner he doesn't have good enough vision.

 

There is some raw material there to work with, no doubt, but it is punt in the 2nd or 3rd round and that is a punt too rich for my taste.

[Mat68]

6 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Before a team spends even a late 3rd or even 4th round pick on him, they need to figure out why his college coaches only game him 77 total touches from the LOS in 2 full seasons.  If he is truly the dynamic play maker that his athletic ability suggests, wouldn't his coaches found ways to get the ball into his hands far more often?  

 

For contrast, Wisconsin gave Jonathan Taylor 346 combined rushes and catches just this past season.

 

Maybe there is a very good reason that Gibson's coaches didn't use him much more often, but I think a team has to understand the answer before investing in him.

There are a million reasons why a player isnt productive in college

In terms of college use, there is a reason coaches coach at Memphis and not Alabama.  With 18, 19, 20 year olds some mature diffetenty.  If he is talented with the ball in his hands its a coaches fault not getting them more involed.  Coaches have their systems and players production all over the country is at times limited by it. Many offenses dont have the quality at Qb to take advantage of some of these guys. I think his use in the backfield were designed touches.  They struggled getting him the ball outside and down the field due to qb play. 

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Before a team spends even a late 3rd or even 4th round pick on him, they need to figure out why his college coaches only game him 77 total touches from the LOS in 2 full seasons.  If he is truly the dynamic play maker that his athletic ability suggests, wouldn't his coaches found ways to get the ball into his hands far more often?  

 

For contrast, Wisconsin gave Jonathan Taylor 346 combined rushes and catches just this past season.

 

Maybe there is a very good reason that Gibson's coaches didn't use him much more often, but I think a team has to understand the answer before investing in him.

Tony Pollard was there last year and Kenny Gainewell was there this year.  Both very good RBs by my estimation, but this makes a lot of sense.  Anyone know the Memphis coach?  Give him a call for me and ask him why Gibson didn’t touch the ball more often

1 hour ago, Hermes said:

I think a similar player with more upside is Lynn Bowden.  He was poised to have a breakout season on the biletnikoff and hornung watchlist, injuries to the top 2 QBs on the Kentucky roster forced him to play QB.

 

His stock dropped but he mostly played as a running back while throwing occasionally.  From what I've seen I believe he's going to come in and make a huge impact.  Hopefully for the Bills

I really like Bowden too.  He just much smaller and I’m unsure of how fast he is.  Looks 4.4ish.  Would love to add him 

1 hour ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

He does clearly seem to be decent as a kick returner. With his size/speed, maybe he can be used as a gunner as well early on. Any added value he can attach to himself in the short term is going to be huge in terms of buying him time on an active roster.

have you watched game tape?  Any thoughts on his release, route running, separation, hands etc?

[Blokestradamus]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

have you watched game tape?  Any thoughts on his release, route running, separation, hands etc?

 

Not had the chance to watch him but I'll put him on my to-do list. Not like I've got anything better to do at the moment

[OldTimer1960]

8 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

There are a million reasons why a player isnt productive in college

In terms of college use, there is a reason coaches coach at Memphis and not Alabama.  With 18, 19, 20 year olds some mature diffetenty.  If he is talented with the ball in his hands its a coaches fault not getting them more involed.  Coaches have their systems and players production all over the country is at times limited by it. Many offenses dont have the quality at Qb to take advantage of some of these guys. I think his use in the backfield were designed touches.  They struggled getting him the ball outside and down the field due to qb play. 

But in Gibson’s case his touches were GLARINGLY limited.  Why was that?  I presume that Memphis’ coach likes being employed, so if Gibson is really that good, you would think they would find a way to get him the ball.  Last season, he got the ball an average of 5 times per game (excluding special teams).  Why that was is the riddle to solve.

 

I am not saying that he might not be good, but I don’t see how a team could look at that utilization and justify even a 3rd round pick on him.  I think 4th round might still be rich for him, but I could see someone being enticed by his athleticism.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

Not had the chance to watch him but I'll put him on my to-do list. Not like I've got anything better to do at the moment

Awesome. Thanks.  Eager to hear your assessment 

[Blokestradamus]

31 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Awesome. Thanks.  Eager to hear your assessment 

 

First off, this kid can have a spot on my roster whenever he likes if he does nothing more than return kicks.

 

As a receiver, he's a little schematically limited but you can only judge what you can see. Physicality-wise, he's not been pressed much, can be rerouted vs zone and doesn't look to thrive on contested catches. His hands look really good in space though, he can go up and get it and he adjusts nicely to poorly thrown passes (insert obligatory Josh Allen joke here).

 

The route running is the part I've got a real doubt on. Doesn't have a lot of route tree variation. He runs routes better off his right foot than his left, which isn't a killer but it's not ideal. I love the variations of the post they've used him on because it fits all of his good points perfectly. His lateral agility will help him get open on the routes he runs well. He even tries as a perimeter blocker.

 

Now, for the hot take. Gibson is a better runner than receiver, by quite a distance. Once I got the comparison in my head, I couldn't let it go. Stylistically, he's prime Fred Jackson. Shifty in tight spaces, low centre of gravity, breaks tackles really well and runs like the world owes him something. I used to say Fred ran like a waterfall and the same is true of Gibson. The one element that he lacks that Fred had in abundance is pass protection. The closest he's got is lead blocking on Wildcat sweeps so it's not that he's bad at it, just literally zero evidence.

 

I think his place is as a special teams ace for now. A smart team will find ways to involve him on offense while he develops. You teach him how to pass protect and focus him on all element of RB play. If he ever gets to the point where a coaching staff trusts him as a full-time RB, he's going to be a nightmare for linebackers in single coverage. Screens, angles, swings, get him in space.

 

I really don't know how to grade that or value it but I'd be so tempted to grab this guy.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

I would say the opposite. Bowden to me is a lower ceiling version of Gibson. I'm not particularly interested in either. Gibson is a 4th-5th round guy to me. I don't think I'd really draft Bowden at all; I just don't see it with him. Equally raw but less explosive with the ball in his hands.

The Bills met with Bowden and could see us putting him in a Joe Webb role. Aka 3rd string QB/ST/depth WR. Yet agree low draft grade like 6th or 7th Round. 

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

First off, this kid can have a spot on my roster whenever he likes if he does nothing more than return kicks.

 

As a receiver, he's a little schematically limited but you can only judge what you can see. Physicality-wise, he's not been pressed much, can be rerouted vs zone and doesn't look to thrive on contested catches. His hands look really good in space though, he can go up and get it and he adjusts nicely to poorly thrown passes (insert obligatory Josh Allen joke here).

 

The route running is the part I've got a real doubt on. Doesn't have a lot of route tree variation. He runs routes better off his right foot than his left, which isn't a killer but it's not ideal. I love the variations of the post they've used him on because it fits all of his good points perfectly. His lateral agility will help him get open on the routes he runs well. He even tries as a perimeter blocker.

 

Now, for the hot take. Gibson is a better runner than receiver, by quite a distance. Once I got the comparison in my head, I couldn't let it go. Stylistically, he's prime Fred Jackson. Shifty in tight spaces, low centre of gravity, breaks tackles really well and runs like the world owes him something. I used to say Fred ran like a waterfall and the same is true of Gibson. The one element that he lacks that Fred had in abundance is pass protection. The closest he's got is lead blocking on Wildcat sweeps so it's not that he's bad at it, just literally zero evidence.

 

I think his place is as a special teams ace for now. A smart team will find ways to involve him on offense while he develops. You teach him how to pass protect and focus him on all element of RB play. If he ever gets to the point where a coaching staff trusts him as a full-time RB, he's going to be a nightmare for linebackers in single coverage. Screens, angles, swings, get him in space.

 

I really don't know how to grade that or value it but I'd be so tempted to grab this guy.

Awesome. Thanks so much.  
 

i think also think he’s a RB and WR second.  Memphis had talented RB and I tend to think that is one of the reasons he played WR.  The guy averaged 11.2 ypc on 33 attempts iirc.  Huge big play ability.  Tremendous lower body power.  

 

It seems to me that the scheme he played in and his inexperience are his biggest drawbacks.  
 

For a guy that will play RB (imo), having little tread is a good thing.  His inexperience in pass pro will keep out of the starting lineup for awhile, but I think he has big time upside as a RB.
 

If we were to put him out there in spot duty, I feel he would garner the attention of the defense due to his big play potential.  If they don’t and he goes 1 on 1 with anyone, watch out, especially in the screen game, like you pointed out 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I'm 100% on board. Just not at 54. 

Buffalo met with him/scouted him alot according to Astros notes. 

Kid is dynamic.

[DCOrange]

3 hours ago, Blokestradamus said:

 

Not had the chance to watch him but I'll put him on my to-do list. Not like I've got anything better to do at the moment

 

These videos aren't perfect as they only show his targets/rushes rather than all reps, but still helps a lot IMO as you can see the whole field:

 

 

 

[Buffalo Junction]

29 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I'm 100% on board. Just not at 54. 

Buffalo met with him/scouted him alot according to Astros notes. 

Kid is dynamic.

It’s interesting to me that they met with a bunch of these multi-positional players. Seems like they’re looking to upgrade the gadget spot with a higher ceiling player. 

[DCOrange]

34 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I'm 100% on board. Just not at 54. 

Buffalo met with him/scouted him alot according to Astros notes. 

Kid is dynamic.

Where did he mention the Bills meeting with Gibson? I don't follow his stuff super close. The only thing I had seen from him is that the Bills went to Memphis a few times this year but never scouted any of their games and I didn't see anything specific to meeting with Gibson. He has a lot of content that I haven't read though.

Edited April 13, 2020 by DCOrange

[T master]

13 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I like him, but even round 3 is kinda high for me. My big concern is that he doesn’t truly have a position. He’s got value as a back, and value as a receiver. That versatility is nice, but there’s been a lot of guys who are unknowns/tweeners who struggle to put it together.

 

I read he has kick return skills too, seeing that McD loves versatility 1 player 3 positions, Zo played 3 positions D line, LB, & ST's if this kid could do like Corderell Paterson did for the Pats that's another weapon to add to the arsenal !!

 

His speed is dangerous all by it self 4.39 /40 ? you can't teach speed Derrick Henry is 6'3" 238 lbs runs a 4.5/ 40 Gibson is 6'2" 220 lbs runs a 4.39 OMG !! He probably has room to add weight if needed but why he's already a bruiser !! Eric Cianno would have a  project .

 

Make it happen Beane !! Coach him up McD !!  Could be the steel of the draft ?

Edited April 13, 2020 by T master

[Hermes]

5 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

I would say the opposite. Bowden to me is a lower ceiling version of Gibson. I'm not particularly interested in either. Gibson is a 4th-5th round guy to me. I don't think I'd really draft Bowden at all; I just don't see it with him. Equally raw but less explosive with the ball in his hands.

 

Really I wouldn't want either one before the  4th, preferably 5th. It's tough gaging how the draft is going to shake out with everything that's going on and all of the playmakers in the draft this year

[The Firebaugh Kid]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Where did he mention the Bills meeting with Gibson? I don't follow his stuff super close. The only thing I had seen from him is that the Bills went to Memphis a few times this year but never scouted any of their games and I didn't see anything specific to meeting with Gibson. He has a lot of content that I haven't read though.

Unless I read the spreadsheet wrong,  I feel like he had 3-4 contacts with Buffalo. I forget what thread it was under. 

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Unless I read the spreadsheet wrong,  I feel like he had 3-4 contacts with Buffalo. I forget what thread it was under. 

If it's the same spreadsheet I'm aware of (his master draft board for the Bills), that's just saying that the Bills visited Memphis 3 times but never scouted a game. Also mentions "lots of interest in post-season" but nothing more than that and I haven't seen anything reported by anyone that we've been in contact with Gibson or shown any interest in him.

 

I think he potentially makes sense as he may have the versatility that we tend to love.