GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Would be nice if this sentiment was actually based on reality. League average was 25 drops/team according to PFR Bills had most in the league at 36, 11 over avg His receivers drop an average amount of passes last season, and he's hitting 61%comp, couple bumps in passer rating and ANY/A, higher yards by about 125, raises his avg YPG, none of them 'bottom five'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, inaugural balls said: Soooo - if this is your new model, why would a team trade for the QB you're kicking to the curb? Why did the Rams pay Goff? Why did the Eagles pay Wentz? Why did the Vikings pay Cousins? If there's one thing the NFL is good at it's making bad decisions at the QB position. Just now, GoBills808 said: League average was 25 drops/team according to PFR Bills had most in the league at 36, 11 over avg His receivers drop an average amount of passes last season, and he's hitting 61%comp, couple bumps in passer rating and ANY/A, higher yards by about 125, raises his avg YPG, none of them 'bottom five'. I've looked into. Adjusting for drops he's still bottom 5 in the NFL if you do the same for every QB. When you start adjusting for drops, every QB in the NFL has better stats. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, jrober38 said: We have a year to figure it out which is good. I think he needs to improve a lot. At his current level, I don't think he warrants the $30 mil/year he'll likely ask for. Recent history has shown that paying non elite QBs has major effects on that team's ability to win football games after the new contract kicks in. Aren’t you the same guy that touted Winston as the next great qb? A guy that said we should give up our entire draft to trade up to get him? You lost all credibility with that gem. Nothing to see here folks... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: League average was 25 drops/team according to PFR Bills had most in the league at 36, 11 over avg His receivers drop an average amount of passes last season, and he's hitting 61%comp, couple bumps in passer rating and ANY/A, higher yards by about 125, raises his avg YPG, none of them 'bottom five'. Now you have to do it for every other qb. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Recent history shows it's very risky to pay guys who aren't truly elite. How does it? Does it show it is more risky than letting someone who is good not great walk and then trying to find another guy up to that level in the draft? I am not convinced it does. Does paying good not great QBs hurt your chance to win? Yep. Does it hurt them more than not having a good QB? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Why did the Rams pay Goff? Why did the Eagles pay Wentz? Why did the Vikings pay Cousins? If there's one thing the NFL is good at it's making bad decisions at the QB position. I've looked into. Adjusting for drops he's still bottom 5 in the NFL if you do the same for every QB. When you start adjusting for drops, every QB in the NFL has better stats. You understand the concept of stats right...I'm adjusting for average. Some had more than average, some had less. Allen had a lot more than average 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, whorlnut said: Aren’t you the same guy that touted Winston as the next great qb? A guy that said we should give up our entire draft to trade up to get him? You lost all credibility with that gem. Nothing to see here folks... I mean the guy did just throw for 5,000 yards. It’s not like he’s a scrub. He’s just his own worst enemy. He did have eye surgery too. He’s a guy who I won’t want to end up on the Pats. His upside is huge. So is downside though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Now you have to do it for every other qb. No, you really don't lmao you guys are hilarious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: Aren’t you the same guy that touted Winston as the next great qb? A guy that said we should give up our entire draft to trade up to get him? You lost all credibility with that gem. Nothing to see here folks... Yup. That was me. Weren't you the guy who really wanted us to draft Blaine Gabbert 3rd overall in whatever year he came out? We've all made mistakes. Literally every single one of us. That's the nature of throwing your neck out on a position that busts like 70% of the time in the first round. 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: You understand the concept of stats right...I'm adjusting for average. Some had more than average, some had less. Allen had a lot more than average I understand what an average is. I've looked at every QB in the NFL's completion percentage adjusting for drops. Josh is still bottom 5. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said: I am a Josh Allen fan. I believe that he has the physical gifts to be a generational quarterback. I also am aware of his weaknesses. Now that Josh has one of the best trio starting wide receivers in the league, what does he have to do to show that he is the Bills franchise quarterback? next step is a playoff win or 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No, you really don't lmao you guys are hilarious So are you. You guys act like Allen is the only qb who has drops. Or that the other qbs ranked high (except Brady who had one of his worst years) in drops aren’t bad qbs who probably don’t throw the most catchable footballs. you are allowed to be fan without blind hero worship. Allen has a lot to work on. seriously, do it for Mitchell. Allen basically had the same exact year as him in both their 2nd years. I’m sure Bears fans feel great about him because he had a lot of “drops.” Edited March 23, 2020 by C.Biscuit97 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Why did the Rams pay Goff? Why did the Eagles pay Wentz? Why did the Vikings pay Cousins? If there's one thing the NFL is good at it's making bad decisions at the QB position. But what if all these teams catch on with your wonderful idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Best trio lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 If Josh Allen continues to show even mild improvement he'll be the QB for the next three years at least. We can take the 5th year option if we really need to in order to figure out if he is really the guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: So are you. You guys act like Allen is the only qb who has drops. Or that the other qbs ranked high (except Brady who had one of his worst years) in drops aren’t bad qbs who probably don’t throw the most catchable footballs. you are allowed to be fan without blind hero worship. Allen has a lot to work on. Yes, he has a lot of work to do. No, he isn't bottom 5 if you adjust for a statistically anomalous number of drops. That was my one and only point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No, you really don't lmao you guys are hilarious agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, inaugural balls said: But what if all these teams catch on with your wonderful idea? Then I'll come up with a new idea. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Then I'll come up with a new idea. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, jrober38 said: If Josh is bottom 5 in most passing categories again do you stand pat at QB? Bottom 5 in most passing categories? I’m curious if you ever say anything about Allen that’s true? He was 23rd in yards, 23rd in TDs, 18th in TD %age, 16th in INT %age, 23rd in ANY/A, 24th in passer rating...at what point do you just stop making things up? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing.htm Or is the stat guy drunk about the above too? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, inaugural balls said: Keep in mind his first idea was that 'QBs are the new RB!' Never mind that the entire concept of professional football, past present and future, stands in opposition to this moment of clarity 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: So are you. You guys act like Allen is the only qb who has drops. Or that the other qbs ranked high (except Brady who had one of his worst years) in drops aren’t bad qbs who probably don’t throw the most catchable footballs. you are allowed to be fan without blind hero worship. Allen has a lot to work on. seriously, do it for Mitchell. Allen basically had the same exact year as him in both their 2nd years. I’m sure Bears fans feel great about him because he had a lot of “drops.” Tubisky’s drop percentage was almost 2 full percentage points lower than Allen’s. The key number to look at is on-target percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, jrober38 said: It's very hard to find an elite QB. Recently it hasn't been particularly difficult to find a base level starter. I don't see much difference between the 11th best guy and the 25th best guy in the NFL. I think at that point it mostly boils down to the supporting cast around them. If we invest heavily in our supporting cast, I think it's reasonable to expect another first round QB to be able to come in here and have some sort of success. If we invest big dollars in a QB who can't carry a team once other positions have been stripped down due to that contract, I think you can get into trouble long term. Just my two cents. That is an interesting option. That is a real alternative to risking several years of your franchise if you make that tragic mistake. It's worth more than 2 cents. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuelTime Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) How much would you pay Josh Allen if he were a FA today? 10, 15, 20 mil a year?? Russell Wilson gets 35 a year, Tom Brady just got 25, and Tyrod and Fitz are at 5.5. He already makes 5.2 a year so I doubt he would take less than that, but in your most objective opinion, how much do you think Josh Allen is worth? How many years and how much guaranteed? Teddy Bridgewater just got 21 million a year.. Has Josh shown enough yet to be worth more than Bridgewater? Edited March 23, 2020 by TuelTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, thebandit27 said: Tubisky’s drop percentage was almost 2 full percentage points lower than Allen’s. The key number to look at is on-target percentage. BuT tHeY hAd SiMiLaR sTaTz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said: I am a Josh Allen fan. I believe that he has the physical gifts to be a generational quarterback. I also am aware of his weaknesses. Now that Josh has one of the best trio starting wide receivers in the league, what does he have to do to show that he is the Bills franchise quarterback? What do you understand that his weaknesses are? Beyond age and inexperience, do you see any glaring shortcomings? I do not. Why do you think Josh has to prove anything in year 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, nucci said: next step is a playoff win or 3 That would be really sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Josh Allen will get the blame no matter what. A lot of people didn't like him from the get go. I always have liked him and will not put everything on his shoulders. Our O-Line is still a question mark and lack of height at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 A top 20 offence and I will consider it a successful Josh Allen season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, clayboy54 said: What do you understand that his weaknesses are? Beyond age and inexperience, do you see any glaring shortcomings? I do not. Why do you think Josh has to prove anything in year 3? It seems to be the prevailing opinion. I do not necessarily agree with that. I would prefer to give him as much time as possible to see what he can become. But you and I both know that if Josh does not show significant improvement this year, many on this site will be calling for his replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 300 yards passing or bust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, DJB said: A top 20 offence and I will consider it a successful Josh Allen season. That is a more realistic goal. I am not sure if Josh will ever have a 60%+ completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Tubisky’s drop percentage was almost 2 full percentage points lower than Allen’s. The key number to look at is on-target percentage. Off target is interesting too. Allen is really high up there. But Rodgers is because he throws the ball away a lot. imo, these stats need more context. Not every drop is the same. And not every off target throw is the same. allen needs to be more accurate. If this year happens. I’m very excited because it should be a much tougher schedule and we be facing a ton more good qbs. So there will be more pressure on the offense to score. I hope Allen proves he is the guy. 2 minutes ago, Cal said: Josh Allen will get the blame no matter what. A lot of people didn't like him from the get go. I always have liked him and will not put everything on his shoulders. Our O-Line is still a question mark and lack of height at WR. I mean he gets credit for being a winning qb because we have an awesome defense. It goes both ways. Too much blame and too much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty75 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) I have confidence in him, I’m sure he will improve because he’s an hard worker but if it’s not the case with all the weapons that he has now, we’ll have to think about an other option at the position. But right now for the moment, I trust Josh and his dedication and I’m curious to see if his game will show an improvement next year ! Edited March 23, 2020 by Smitty75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 He has to lead the Bills to a 10 win or more season, a playoff berth and a minimum of a playoff win. Anything less would be disappointing as a year 3 result for Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, DJB said: A top 20 offence and I will consider it a successful Josh Allen season. Bills fans’ offensive expectations are so painfully low. Our offense needs to be top half to be considered a success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Off target is interesting too. Allen is really high up there. But Rodgers is because he throws the ball away a lot. imo, these stats need more context. Not every drop is the same. And not every off target throw is the same. allen needs to be more accurate. If this year happens. I’m very excited because it should be a much tougher schedule and we be facing a ton more good qbs. So there will be more pressure on the offense to score. I hope Allen proves he is the guy. Spikes and throwaways are not included in OT% FWIW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, Boatdrinks said: He has to lead the Bills to a 10 win or more season, a playoff berth and a minimum of a playoff win. Anything less would be disappointing as a year 3 result for Allen. Eh, I don’t agree on the wins. Allen could have a better year, the defense could slip a better, and with a harder schedule, we might not win as much. So I don’t think that’s fair to put entirely on Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Many on this site would like Josh to be cut immediately. That's the nature of fandom these days. But, he is making substantial progress regardless of what some fans think. Plus, he is a natural born leader and that's something we have not seen in quite a while. I like what I am seeing and hope his ceiling is where we all would like it to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Off target is interesting too. Allen is really high up there. But Rodgers is because he throws the ball away a lot. imo, these stats need more context. Not every drop is the same. And not every off target throw is the same. allen needs to be more accurate. If this year happens. I’m very excited because it should be a much tougher schedule and we be facing a ton more good qbs. So there will be more pressure on the offense to score. I hope Allen proves he is the guy. So did Allen but why would you be expected to know that lol... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eee1776 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Charlotte sports radio all morning was saying what a great fit Cam would be for Buffalo. They were very negative about Josh saying the team was built to win now. Cam could take them to the super bowl where Josh was not ready to. This went on for an hour or so. Very negative about Josh being the guy. They use the Houston game as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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