The China Problem

[The Frankish Reich]

Probably the best leverage we could have had against China on the economic side was through the Trans-Pacific Partnership that Obama negotiated.

Thanks to Bernie Sanders on the left (with Hillary being forced to join him in opposing it) and Trump on the right, we pulled out of the agreement.

And just to clear up a common misconception: the TPP did NOT include China. It would have allowed the USA and non-Chinese countries to expand trade among themselves, cutting China out.

[BillsToast]

On 1/7/2021 at 3:27 PM, TBBills said:

Trump allowed China to gain this power. 

 

Actually it was the Rs and the Ds doing backroom deals. China grew huge under Clinton, Bush and Obama. Trump was the only president to consider them an actual problem (to his credit). 

 

Oh and your quote is not how countries actually work unless you believe in WW3. 

 

Read the quote just above mine from Frankish Reich it's very good. 

[WideNine]

So... Parlor nut jobs are back.

 

Is China a threat - yes. Does just about every country in the world leverage their products - yes. Will it take time and a variety of leverage to counter them - yes. Was Trump tough on China - maybe.

 

For years the US has been positioning themselves and their allies to make a push back on China, part of the reasoning around the TPP was to provide alternatives to Chinese-dominated trade and supply chain options. Of course, Don the Con could not stand that effort because it was started by Obama so he sank it. Then launched a trade war with few if any partnerships and little or no global leverage.

 

I am not against a tougher stance on China - Australia was the first to sound the alarm on their more aggressive tactics, but I think it is something that has to be well thought out policy-wise, not something you approach half-cocked.

 

 

 

 

[TBBills]

21 minutes ago, WideNine said:

So... Parlor nut jobs are back.

 

Is China a threat - yes. Does just about every country in the world leverage their products - yes. Will it take time and a variety of leverage to counter them - yes. Was Trump tough on China - maybe.

 

For years the US has been positioning themselves and their allies to make a push back on China, part of the reasoning around the TPP was to provide alternatives to Chinese-dominated trade and supply chain options. Of course, Don the Con could not stand that effort because it was started by Obama so he sank it. Then launched a trade war with few if any partnerships and little or no global leverage.

 

I am not against a tougher stance on China - Australia was the first to sound the alarm on their more aggressive tactics, but I think it is something that has to be well thought out policy-wise, not something you approach half-cocked.

 

 

 

 

They just want a Trumpster to be the one doing it.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

With a helpful media, the left will just ignore this.

 

There aint a chance in in hell that anyone wakes up Joe to ask him.

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

Just another "cultural norm..."

[BillStime]

11 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

With a helpful media, the left will just ignore this.

 

There aint a chance in in hell that anyone wakes up Joe to ask him.

 

 

 

 

 

Will Trump close his bank accounts in China? Stop doing business? Will Ivanka return her trademarks?

[B-Man]

20 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Will Trump close his bank accounts in China? Stop doing business? Will Ivanka return her trademarks?

 

 

billZtime is just hopeless.......

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

billZtime is just hopeless.......

 

No answer? Can't acknowledge that your SAVIOR does business in CHINA, too?

 

Pathetic lap dog as always @B-Man

 

 

 

[Doc]

Bank accounts?  LOL!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

With a helpful media, the left will just ignore this.

 

There aint a chance in in hell that anyone wakes up Joe to ask him.

 

 

 

 

For a country that has long worked to devise methods of population control, and limiting kids per family, I’m not sure they thought this through. 

[JaCrispy]

On 1/7/2021 at 5:16 PM, Doc said:

Xi afraid of Biden.  🤣

...Three weeks later...😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

...Three weeks later...😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣

Was just listen to Bloomberg Asia recap on Bloomberg radio and They reported a paraphrased report out of Beijing that the PRC is very pleased with the new administrations soft tone and stance on trade and human rights. That’s coming from them, not some right wing outlet. 
 

take it for what you will. 

[Doc]

40 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Was just listen to Bloomberg Asia recap on Bloomberg radio and They reported a paraphrased report out of Beijing that the PRC is very pleased with the new administrations soft tone and stance on trade and human rights. That’s coming from them, not some right wing outlet. 
 

take it for what you will. 

 

Shocker!

[snafu]

Nice start to the US/China talks in Alaska .

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/18/china-us-alaska-meeting-undiplomatic-477118

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56452471

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0b71b440-49b8-42e8-993e-9a58bc3b5da3

 

[LeviF]

20 hours ago, snafu said:

Nice start to the US/China talks in Alaska .

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/18/china-us-alaska-meeting-undiplomatic-477118

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56452471

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0b71b440-49b8-42e8-993e-9a58bc3b5da3

 

Did you see the video with the B word with the purple hair at the American table? Does this regime know nothing at all about Chinese culture?

 

So ***** stupid. 

[Gene Frenkle]

4 hours ago, LeviF91 said:

Did you see the video with the B word with the purple hair at the American table? Does this regime know nothing at all about Chinese culture?

 

So ***** stupid. 

 

So is Biden too tough on China now or still too soft?

[Tiberius]

All this talk by Republicans of wanting to stand up to China, yet, while China builds towards the 21st century, improving their infrastructure, modernizing and funding the latest technology, Republicans are horrified Biden wants us to try and stay in the race. 

 

Happy to see our country fall behind, thrilled to complain about it and do nothing, these people just spew hate and laugh as we ignore our own country's needs. 

 

Build Back Better! 

[B-Man]

 

 

Former Coca-Cola Employee Convicted of Stealing $120 Million Worth of Trade Secrets to Sell in China

by Cathy He

 

 

A Chinese-born American chemist was found guilty on April 22 for her role in a scheme to steal trade secrets worth an estimated $120 million from American companies for the purpose of setting up a Chinese company that would manufacture the product for the global market. After a 12-day trial, 59-year-old You Xiaorong—also known as Shannon You—of Lansing, Michigan, was convicted of conspiracy to commit trade secret theft, conspiracy to commit economic espionage, possession of stolen trade secrets, economic espionage, and wire fraud, (Snip) While working at two U.S. companies—Coca-Cola in Atlanta, Georgia, and Eastman Chemical Company in Kingsport, Tennessee—she stole trade secrets related to BPA-free (bisphenol-A) coating technology,

 

 

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/former-coca-cola-employee-convicted-of-stealing-120-million-worth-of-trade-secrets-to-sell-in-china_3788504.html?utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-04-23-3&mktids=13ba7deb8c901a589ed3576b221ad877&est=R6PkaTs4iBPROye8JSv2xS5rhRatpWik6QnnrRzw0Xx9xF3IzZudk2H2zs3%2BEEc%3D

[LeviF]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:51 AM, Tiberius said:

All this talk by Republicans of wanting to stand up to China, yet, while China builds towards the 21st century, improving their infrastructure, modernizing and funding the latest technology, Republicans are horrified Biden wants us to try and stay in the race. 

 

Happy to see our country fall behind, thrilled to complain about it and do nothing, these people just spew hate and laugh as we ignore our own country's needs. 

 

Build Back Better! 

We won’t see a ***** penny of those “infrastructure” dollars. Funding for “infrastructure” without specifics is a very transparent attempt to pay off political debts. 
 

And “staying in the race” while still tossing around H1Bs and other such favors as if they’re chocolate coins at a bar mitzvah is impossible. 

[Tiberius]

32 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

We won’t see a ***** penny of those “infrastructure” dollars. Funding for “infrastructure” without specifics is a very transparent attempt to pay off political debts. 
 

And “staying in the race” while still tossing around H1Bs and other such favors as if they’re chocolate coins at a bar mitzvah is impossible. 

Oh ya, we will see them. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:51 AM, Tiberius said:

All this talk by Republicans of wanting to stand up to China, yet, while China builds towards the 21st century, improving their infrastructure, modernizing and funding the latest technology, Republicans are horrified Biden wants us to try and stay in the race. 

 

Happy to see our country fall behind, thrilled to complain about it and do nothing, these people just spew hate and laugh as we ignore our own country's needs. 

 

Build Back Better! 

The question is where are the funds for all this coming from?  The US government is broke and doesn't have any funds to do anything.  80% of the Federal budget is borrowed money every year.  The only way the national debt is serviced is by issuing more debt to pay off older debt coming due.  That meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.  The Federal Reserve acts as a money laundering agent for the US treasury and their policies are the number one cause of income inequality as massive amounts of money and debt are funneled into the financial markets where those assets are majority owned by the 1%.  Capital used to be created and generated by productive activities but no longer. Its just printed or created by a few keystrokes on a balance sheet somewhere. 

Our defense budget is about $800B a year and is bigger than combining the spending of the 2-12 countries on the list.  Many of which our allies.  Yet we are in no major conflicts at the moment and keep spending more.

Our industries and productive capacity have been gutted and moved offshore, many to the aforementioned China.  10's of thousands of small towns and businesses have been destroyed.  The economy for all purposes has been financialized and most people make "money" by moving "money" around.  Bi-coastal financial cities and states have sucked assets out of the middle.  20% of the labor force works for the government at some level.  For every 13 workers there is one person on long term disability even though most of the dangerous jobs have been eliminated.  Everyone from the top on down is feeding like a pig at the public trough.     

Our education system is in shambles and college costs are out of control and out of alignment with the "value" they produce for graduates.  Many of which can't find jobs using their degree.  Our health care system is controlled by price fixing monopolies at all levels of the delivery system.  Hospitals, drug companies, insurers, etc.

Housing prices are out of reach for many and the cost of food is rising rapidly, which hurts the poorest most, and price inflation is picking up everywhere.  Meanwhile, businesses can't find workers because the governments COVID relief payments are so generous that people make more sitting at home.  So until either we're forced to or decide to cut and eliminate all the dead wood and passengers on the bus here this dysfunction all continue or it will crash on its own weight at some point.  We are going to build back better nothing.  

 

Meanwhile, China can funds all kinds of projects like the Belt and Road initiatives.  Is quietly colonizing Africa and making all kinds of deals and arrangements for resources and markets around the world.  Our government is focused on the folly of maintaining the current world order.  China runs trade and budget surpluses, its central bank holds trillions in reserves, and they have the productive capacity to generate capital to fund all kinds of domestic initiatives.  The Chinese are raising and educating generations of scientists, engineers, and other professionals and we are producing social justice warriors along with unskilled and unemployable woke generations that are functionally useless.

 

I say the war is over and we've lost unless we get smart and eliminate all the hustles and cons and get serious.  That requires social and political cooperation which as we know we're short on these days.  And the infrastructure legislation as currently defined is less infrastructure and more special interest spending. 

 

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The question is where are the funds for all this coming from?  The US government is broke and doesn't have any funds to do anything.  80% of the Federal budget is borrowed money every year.  The only way the national debt is serviced is by issuing more debt to pay off older debt coming due.  That meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.  The Federal Reserve acts as a money laundering agent for the US treasury and their policies are the number one cause of income inequality as massive amounts of money and debt are funneled into the financial markets where those assets are majority owned by the 1%.  Capital used to be created and generated by productive activities but no longer. Its just printed or created by a few keystrokes on a balance sheet somewhere. 

Our defense budget is about $800B a year and is bigger than combining the spending of the 2-12 countries on the list.  Many of which our allies.  Yet we are in no major conflicts at the moment and keep spending more.

Our industries and productive capacity have been gutted and moved offshore, many to the aforementioned China.  10's of thousands of small towns and businesses have been destroyed.  The economy for all purposes has been financialized and most people make "money" by moving "money" around.  Bi-coastal financial cities and states have sucked assets out of the middle.  20% of the labor force works for the government at some level.  For every 13 workers there is one person on long term disability even though most of the dangerous jobs have been eliminated.  Everyone from the top on down is feeding like a pig at the public trough.     

Our education system is in shambles and college costs are out of control and out of alignment with the "value" they produce for graduates.  Many of which can't find jobs using their degree.  Our health care system is controlled by price fixing monopolies at all levels of the delivery system.  Hospitals, drug companies, insurers, etc.

Housing prices are out of reach for many and the cost of food is rising rapidly, which hurts the poorest most, and price inflation is picking up everywhere.  Meanwhile, businesses can't find workers because the governments COVID relief payments are so generous that people make more sitting at home.  So until either we're forced to or decide to cut and eliminate all the dead wood and passengers on the bus here this dysfunction all continue or it will crash on its own weight at some point.  We are going to build back better nothing.  

 

Meanwhile, China can funds all kinds of projects like the Belt and Road initiatives.  Is quietly colonizing Africa and making all kinds of deals and arrangements for resources and markets around the world.  Our government is focused on the folly of maintaining the current world order.  China runs trade and budget surpluses, its central bank holds trillions in reserves, and they have the productive capacity to generate capital to fund all kinds of domestic initiatives.  The Chinese are raising and educating generations of scientists, engineers, and other professionals and we are producing social justice warriors along with unskilled and unemployable woke generations that are functionally useless.

 

I say the war is over and we've lost unless we get smart and eliminate all the hustles and cons and get serious.  That requires social and political cooperation which as we know we're short on these days.  And the infrastructure legislation as currently defined is less infrastructure and more special interest spending. 

 

 

We are broke but we could afford the Trump tax cut, right?

 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The question is where are the funds for all this coming from?  The US government is broke and doesn't have any funds to do anything.  80% of the Federal budget is borrowed money every year.  The only way the national debt is serviced is by issuing more debt to pay off older debt coming due.  That meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.  The Federal Reserve acts as a money laundering agent for the US treasury and their policies are the number one cause of income inequality as massive amounts of money and debt are funneled into the financial markets where those assets are majority owned by the 1%.  Capital used to be created and generated by productive activities but no longer. Its just printed or created by a few keystrokes on a balance sheet somewhere. 

Our defense budget is about $800B a year and is bigger than combining the spending of the 2-12 countries on the list.  Many of which our allies.  Yet we are in no major conflicts at the moment and keep spending more.

Our industries and productive capacity have been gutted and moved offshore, many to the aforementioned China.  10's of thousands of small towns and businesses have been destroyed.  The economy for all purposes has been financialized and most people make "money" by moving "money" around.  Bi-coastal financial cities and states have sucked assets out of the middle.  20% of the labor force works for the government at some level.  For every 13 workers there is one person on long term disability even though most of the dangerous jobs have been eliminated.  Everyone from the top on down is feeding like a pig at the public trough.     

Our education system is in shambles and college costs are out of control and out of alignment with the "value" they produce for graduates.  Many of which can't find jobs using their degree.  Our health care system is controlled by price fixing monopolies at all levels of the delivery system.  Hospitals, drug companies, insurers, etc.

Housing prices are out of reach for many and the cost of food is rising rapidly, which hurts the poorest most, and price inflation is picking up everywhere.  Meanwhile, businesses can't find workers because the governments COVID relief payments are so generous that people make more sitting at home.  So until either we're forced to or decide to cut and eliminate all the dead wood and passengers on the bus here this dysfunction all continue or it will crash on its own weight at some point.  We are going to build back better nothing.  

 

Meanwhile, China can funds all kinds of projects like the Belt and Road initiatives.  Is quietly colonizing Africa and making all kinds of deals and arrangements for resources and markets around the world.  Our government is focused on the folly of maintaining the current world order.  China runs trade and budget surpluses, its central bank holds trillions in reserves, and they have the productive capacity to generate capital to fund all kinds of domestic initiatives.  The Chinese are raising and educating generations of scientists, engineers, and other professionals and we are producing social justice warriors along with unskilled and unemployable woke generations that are functionally useless.

 

I say the war is over and we've lost unless we get smart and eliminate all the hustles and cons and get serious.  That requires social and political cooperation which as we know we're short on these days.  And the infrastructure legislation as currently defined is less infrastructure and more special interest spending. 

 

Borrow and invest, raise some taxes, done 

 

Takes money to make money. 
 

I get that many older people hate the idea of progress or looking to the future, but who cares what they think? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

We are broke but we could afford the Trump tax cut, right?

 

What tax cut?  Mine went up!  And I wasn't too happy about it either.

 

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Borrow and invest, raise some taxes, done 

 

Takes money to make money. 
 

I get that many older people hate the idea of progress or looking to the future, but who cares what they think? 

I wouldn't characterize what's going on as progress unless you're goal is destruction of our economic system and a falling standard of living for everybody.  If you think we're making progress that's your choice but I expect you're in for a rude awakening very soon.        

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

What tax cut?  Mine went up!  And I wasn't too happy about it either.

 

I wouldn't characterize what's going on as progress unless you're goal is destruction of our economic system and a falling standard of living for everybody.  If you think we're making progress that's your choice but I expect you're in for a rude awakening very soon.        

LOL, modernizing is going to destroy us? 

 

Ya, ok. And Trump won election, Hillary murdered people and up is really down 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:51 AM, Tiberius said:

All this talk by Republicans of wanting to stand up to China, yet, while China builds towards the 21st century, improving their infrastructure, modernizing and funding the latest technology, Republicans are horrified Biden wants us to try and stay in the race. 

 

Happy to see our country fall behind, thrilled to complain about it and do nothing, these people just spew hate and laugh as we ignore our own country's needs. 

 

Build Back Better! 

I guarantee China’s infrastructure improvements do NOT include expanding paid leave. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I guarantee China’s infrastructure improvements do NOT include expanding paid leave. 

So? You want to use that to throw out the bath water? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

So? You want to use that to throw out the bath water? 

No I want the government to waste less of my money, not more!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

213 billion dollars to federalize residential and commercial property? Are you kidding me? ‘Infrastructure’

[Orlando Tim]

5 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

 

Takes money to make money. 
 

You must be a government employee to make such a comment about government. If your theory was not completely stupid than the USSR and Cuba would be dominating the world.  

[Tiberius]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

You must be a government employee to make such a comment about government. If your theory was not completely stupid than the USSR and Cuba would be dominating the world.  

No, we are different systems than USSR and Cuba. 

 

How how do you explain Chinas success though? 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

51 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

No I want the government to waste less of my money, not more!

Sounds more like you’d screw the country over to spite the Democratic Party, 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, we are different systems than USSR and Cuba. 

 

How how do you explain Chinas success though? 

Because their people are hungry and work.
and this:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2019/07/08/chinas-economic-success-proves-the-power-of-capitalism/?sh=762ab5b43b9d

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Sounds more like you’d screw the country over to spite the Democratic Party, 

I’m opposed to handouts 

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Because their people are hungry and work.
and this:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2019/07/08/chinas-economic-success-proves-the-power-of-capitalism/?sh=762ab5b43b9d

I’m opposed to handouts 

You’d get rid of health care for the elderly, right? Handouts like that? 

 

And childrens healthcare? Welfare needs to go right? 

 

We can make people sick and hungry!! 

 

God, I’m so happy you people are losing! 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You’d get rid of health care for the elderly, right? Handouts like that? 

 

And childrens healthcare? Welfare needs to go right? 

 

We can make people sick and hungry!! 

 

God, I’m so happy you people are losing! 

Get rid? What are you smoking man? It’s additional new spending on top of additional new spending on top of existing spending. 
 

We the people are all are losing, have been for years and your people trying to assume unilateral control are now throwing nonexistent money at every human they can to try and finish the job. 
 

it’s the collapse of the Roman Empire front and center while the elites enrich themselves.
 

And the useful idiots spread word far and wide.... more money to fall from the sky. 

 

you asked why China is emerging and dominating the world. They aren’t soft and lazy. Too busy trying to eat to worry about being woke. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Orlando Tim]

59 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, we are different systems than USSR and Cuba. 

 

How how do you explain Chinas success though? 

Their per capita GDP is 20% of ours so I define success a little different than you, they have 2 billion people which is why they can "compete" with us. 

[LeviF]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

213 billion dollars to federalize residential and commercial property? Are you kidding me? ‘Infrastructure’

Like I said, we won’t see a ***** penny. 
 

Meanwhile we’re gonna make it easier for Chinese to get student visas. Which keeps American kids out of our best schools. Nobody ***** talk to me about the Bai Dan administration wanting to “keep up” with China. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, LeviF91 said:

Like I said, we won’t see a ***** penny. 
 

Meanwhile we’re gonna make it easier for Chinese to get student visas. Which keeps American kids out of our best schools. Nobody ***** talk to me about the Bai Dan administration wanting to “keep up” with China. 

i have no issue with Asians immigrating here, beating our kids in school and then taking the best paying jobs and being part of our society and even leading it. They’ve earned it. They’ve worked for it. Their cultural focus on success is helpful toward our society. If that pisses off indigenous Americans teach your kids to work, and that the world is competitive.