The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

He says he’s lost interest. A few posts above. There isn’t a lot to discuss at the moment. It’s leveled out. Little rise happening. 

 

Right not alot to discuss at the moment. But anyways here in a small town or county cases and deaths rising higher. Even nearby small county rising as well. Death was like only 2 now 13 past week. 

 

But anyways hope everyone doing well. Found a girl and hangout with her kid lots. (like her) Just living life. Glad to be here seeing everyone here :).  Magox everyone are cool.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[SoCal Deek]

You’ll be happy to know this severely lethal pandemic creating killer virus took the weekend off again. Deaths were way down all across America. Apparently the best days to unmask are Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Start making your plans for next weekend!

[Kemp]

https://patch.com/us/across-america/stimulus-talks-stall-confirmation-hearing-underway-blog

 

Nice job, Trump supporters. You're real patriotic. 

 

Nice job, Rudy. Try to murder as many as you can.

 

At the event in Northeast Philadelphia, Giuliani spoke off the cuff about issues such as the Democratic Party being “controlled” by Black Lives Matter and what he described as the president’s outstanding handling of the “Chinese Communist virus.”

“People don’t die of this disease anymore,” he said, adding that Democrats were overblowing COVID because they wanted to frighten people.

Coronavirus cases are on the rise again in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware. There have been more than 214,000 reported coronavirus deaths in the United States.

[Gary M]

2 hours ago, Kemp said:

https://patch.com/us/across-america/stimulus-talks-stall-confirmation-hearing-underway-blog

 

Nice job, Trump supporters. You're real patriotic. 

 

Nice job, Rudy. Try to murder as many as you can.

 

At the event in Northeast Philadelphia, Giuliani spoke off the cuff about issues such as the Democratic Party being “controlled” by Black Lives Matter and what he described as the president’s outstanding handling of the “Chinese Communist virus.”

“People don’t die of this disease anymore,” he said, adding that Democrats were overblowing COVID because they wanted to frighten people.

Coronavirus cases are on the rise again in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware. There have been more than 214,000 reported coronavirus deaths in the United States.

 

96% recovery rate, stop spreading fear.

 

[Cinga]

5 minutes ago, Gary M said:

 

96% recovery rate, stop spreading fear.

 

 

That recovery rate is deceptive in itself though since it only count those who have been tested. If you throw in asymptomatic the recovery rate jumps to 99 and change percent recovery rate. 

[TBBills]

"Scientists confirm Nevada 25-year-old got coronavirus twice, second case was more severe | TheHill" https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/520702-scientists-confirm-nevada-25-year-old-got-coronavirus-twice-second-case-was?amp

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Cinga said:

 

That recovery rate is deceptive in itself though since it only count those who have been tested. If you throw in asymptomatic the recovery rate jumps to 99 and change percent recovery rate. 

 

As long as you and yours aren't among the dead, it's all good, right?  

As long as you and yours aren't among those who spend months in the hospital recovering and incurring massive medical bills that health insurance doesn't cover, it's all good, right?  

As long as you and yours aren't among those "long haulers" who suffer physical and psychological symptoms that prevent them from returning to work, it's all good, right? 

As long as you and yours aren't among those who suffer what might be permanent health conditions that limit their quality of life, it's all good, right? 

 

[DFT]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

As long as you and yours aren't among the dead, it's all good, right?  

As long as you and yours aren't among those who spend months in the hospital recovering and incurring massive medical bills that health insurance doesn't cover, it's all good, right?  

As long as you and yours aren't among those "long haulers" who suffer physical and psychological symptoms that prevent them from returning to work, it's all good, right? 

As long as you and yours aren't among those who suffer what might be permanent health conditions that limit their quality of life, it's all good, right? 

 

To be fair, I’m among those that lost someone to COVID recently.  There’s no winners, unfortunately.  But I’m not for what I’m seeing in our country right now.  I believe both the WHO and CDC are starting to swing themselves to those thoughts as well.  The damage done to our country over the collective responses will go far beyond those lives we’ve lost.  We’ve planted proverbial seeds that were politically motivated and will potentially have impacts that outlast those we elected to lead us in these times.  New waves of depression, anxiety and mental illness have grown exponentially.  Parents, friends, family, neighbors divided and isolated during one of the scariest moments of our generation.  This, in my humble opinion, will vastly outweigh this awful pandemic.  Again, my opinion.  

[Cinga]

39 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

As long as you and yours aren't among the dead, it's all good, right?  

As long as you and yours aren't among those who spend months in the hospital recovering and incurring massive medical bills that health insurance doesn't cover, it's all good, right?  

As long as you and yours aren't among those "long haulers" who suffer physical and psychological symptoms that prevent them from returning to work, it's all good, right? 

As long as you and yours aren't among those who suffer what might be permanent health conditions that limit their quality of life, it's all good, right? 

 

 

Where the **** did I say any of that? But since you bring it up, the WHO estimates now that over 750 MILLION people have had the virus. That would knock the fatality rate down to .13% - yes, that is point one three percent right about what the flu is and we have a vaccine for the flu!

 

I'm with virtually everyone else on this planet, that 1 death was too many. But shutting down the world for this was utter bullschiff when we could have protected the elderly and those with pre-existing as I did my own wife! And gone about our lives!

Edited October 13, 2020 by Cinga

[spartacus]

3 hours ago, Cinga said:

 

That recovery rate is deceptive in itself though since it only count those who have been tested. If you throw in asymptomatic the recovery rate jumps to 99 and change percent recovery rate. 

it also includes all of people who died at the hand of Cuomo

The current recovery rate is actually much better without the above 

Older people have a reasonable chance with the proper treatment (that would be anything other than waiting until they got really sick, then killing them with a ventilator)

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by spartacus

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, Cinga said:

 

That recovery rate is deceptive in itself though since it only count those who have been tested. If you throw in asymptomatic the recovery rate jumps to 99 and change percent recovery rate. 

Is there any hard evidence to back up the untested, asymptomatic numbers other than estimates?   If not, it's really not proper to throw those in.  

6 hours ago, Kemp said:

https://patch.com/us/across-america/stimulus-talks-stall-confirmation-hearing-underway-blog

 

Nice job, Trump supporters. You're real patriotic. 

 

Nice job, Rudy. Try to murder as many as you can.

 

At the event in Northeast Philadelphia, Giuliani spoke off the cuff about issues such as the Democratic Party being “controlled” by Black Lives Matter and what he described as the president’s outstanding handling of the “Chinese Communist virus.”

“People don’t die of this disease anymore,” he said, adding that Democrats were overblowing COVID because they wanted to frighten people.

Coronavirus cases are on the rise again in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware. There have been more than 214,000 reported coronavirus deaths in the United States.

At this point it's easily overblown.  Rudy's correct about that.  Just not as correct as the right wingers imagine.

[Cinga]

7 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Is there any hard evidence to back up the untested, asymptomatic numbers other than estimates?   If not, it's really not proper to throw those in.  

Here:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/health/who-coronavirus-world-population-intl/index.html

 

if 10% of the world population has been infected that is about 750 million. 1.1 million (rounded up a lot) divided by 750 million comes to about .14% deaths

[spartacus]

26 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Is there any hard evidence to back up the untested, asymptomatic numbers other than estimates?   If not, it's really not proper to throw those in.  

At this point it's easily overblown.  Rudy's correct about that.  Just not as correct as the right wingers imagine.

better question is where is the evidence that asymptomatic people can actually transmit the virus

 

the research done by the WHO researcher clearly showed based on actual cases that it was unlikely for virus to be transmitted by those without symptoms

although the WHO issued a retraction, the researcher stood by her conclusion.

this is consistent with the need to have a very high viral load to make someone sick, let alone have enough virus particles to transit to others

 

without the above, masks serve no purpose whatsoever

 

 

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Cinga said:

 

Where the **** did I say any of that? But since you bring it up, the WHO estimates now that over 750 MILLION people have had the virus. That would knock the fatality rate down to .13% - yes, that is point one three percent right about what the flu is and we have a vaccine for the flu!

 

I'm with virtually everyone else on this planet, that 1 death was too many. But shutting down the world for this was utter bullschiff when we could have protected the elderly and those with pre-existing as I did my own wife! And gone about our lives!

 

The choice is not between "shutting down the world" and pretending the pandemic is inconsequential, which is simply untrue.   Nobody is even asking much less demanding that.  Taking reasonable precautions -- wearing masks, staying socially distanced, not gathering indoors in large groups -- is not a left or right "thing".  It's the responsible thing  -- like making sure that your kids are strapped into car seats or booster seats in the rear seat of the car rather than riding on Mom's lap in the front because "it's Mom's choice" to put her kids at significant risk of death and/or serious injury in even a relatively minor accident.

[spartacus]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

The choice is not between "shutting down the world" and pretending the pandemic is inconsequential, which is simply untrue.   Nobody is even asking much less demanding that.  Taking reasonable precautions -- wearing masks, staying socially distanced, not gathering indoors in large groups -- is not a left or right "thing".  It's the responsible thing  -- like making sure that your kids are strapped into car seats or booster seats in the rear seat of the car rather than riding on Mom's lap in the front because "it's Mom's choice" to put her kids at significant risk of death and/or serious injury in even a relatively minor accident.

masks are pointless - other than to virtue signal that you will blindly follow stupid directions

 

even more so, as there has been no conclusive validation that asymptomic "cases" can spread the virus

-due to insufficient viral load

 

 

 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, DFT said:

To be fair, I’m among those that lost someone to COVID recently.  There’s no winners, unfortunately.  But I’m not for what I’m seeing in our country right now.  I believe both the WHO and CDC are starting to swing themselves to those thoughts as well.  The damage done to our country over the collective responses will go far beyond those lives we’ve lost.  We’ve planted proverbial seeds that were politically motivated and will potentially have impacts that outlast those we elected to lead us in these times.  New waves of depression, anxiety and mental illness have grown exponentially.  Parents, friends, family, neighbors divided and isolated during one of the scariest moments of our generation.  This, in my humble opinion, will vastly outweigh this awful pandemic.  Again, my opinion.  

 

I absolutely agree.  We really can't even do more than begin to consider all the eventual consequences of this pandemic.  I think that one thing that's absolutely true is that we as a nation and society are never going to be "the way we were" in January and February, 2020.  Ever.

[spartacus]

18 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I absolutely agree.  We really can't even do more than begin to consider all the eventual consequences of this pandemic.  I think that one thing that's absolutely true is that we as a nation and society are never going to be "the way we were" in January and February, 2020.  Ever.

for something that 99.7% of those infected will recover 

sounds like a plan

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

I absolutely agree.  We really can't even do more than begin to consider all the eventual consequences of this pandemic.  I think that one thing that's absolutely true is that we as a nation and society are never going to be "the way we were" in January and February, 2020.  Ever.

 

 

 

...thought I read somewhere you are 70 ish........why don't you just state personal your fears, trepidations, health care consequences/coverages et al?.....if so I certainly understand your concerns......I'm 67, still working full time with excellent Excellus BCBS coverage......

[Cinga]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

The choice is not between "shutting down the world" and pretending the pandemic is inconsequential, which is simply untrue.   Nobody is even asking much less demanding that.  Taking reasonable precautions -- wearing masks, staying socially distanced, not gathering indoors in large groups -- is not a left or right "thing".  It's the responsible thing  -- like making sure that your kids are strapped into car seats or booster seats in the rear seat of the car rather than riding on Mom's lap in the front because "it's Mom's choice" to put her kids at significant risk of death and/or serious injury in even a relatively minor accident.

 

Explain Sweden please

[shoshin]

 

 

[realtruelove]

48 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

 

All we need now is a ventilator shortage.  Who here actually knows their Vitamin D level?

[SoCal Deek]

The long term trend is clear. The virus has not wrecked the American health care system...anywhere. Not even when we knew nothing about it or how best to treat it. Watching the recent numbers we appear to have just another illness, that we know a lot more about how to treat now. One that severely impacts only specific kinds of people. One that the vast majority of people quickly recover from. And one that we’ll soon have a vaccine against if people elect to take it. Let’s get back to our lives now. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

The long term trend is clear. The virus has not wrecked the American health care system...anywhere. Not even when we knew nothing about it or how best to treat it. Watching the recent numbers we appear to have just another illness, that we know a lot more about how to treat now. One that severely impacts only specific kinds of people. One that the vast majority of people quickly recover from. And one that we’ll soon have a vaccine against if people elect to take it. Let’s get back to our lives now. 

There's no reason not to.  Just wear a mask while doing so.  

15 hours ago, Cinga said:

 

Explain Sweden please

Higher death rate than other Scandinavian countries.  Plus their citizens voluntarily take things like distancing seriously, unlike our country.

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

There's no reason not to.  Just wear a mask while doing so.  

Higher death rate than other Scandinavian countries.  Plus their citizens voluntarily take things like distancing seriously, unlike our country.

We’ve been back to work since June 1st. This is nonsense! 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We’ve been back to work since June 1st. This is nonsense! 

Masks help prevent spread.  We can all go about our business if we would all just wear them, and it would deprive the virus of hosts and thus bring the pandemic under control much quicker.  The science on this is irrefutable.  

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Masks help prevent spread.  We can all go about our business if we would all just wear them, and it would deprive the virus of hosts and thus bring the pandemic under control much quicker.  The science on this is irrefutable.  

Old man. I live in California. We’ve all been wearing masks ‘religiously’ for SIX MONTHS!! We still got our wave of the virus. You can keep wishing on the mask thing. I won’t stop you.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Old man. I live in California. We’ve all been wearing masks ‘religiously’ for SIX MONTHS!! We still got our wave of the virus. You can keep wishing on the mask thing. I won’t stop you.

The data is irrefutable as I said.  I am willing to bet not everyone is wearing masks and social distancing in California as you suggest.

[spartacus]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Masks help prevent spread.  We can all go about our business if we would all just wear them, and it would deprive the virus of hosts and thus bring the pandemic under control much quicker.  The science on this is irrefutable.  

irrefutable ,

except for the physics that mandates large holes in masks can't stop microscopic virus particles

masks do more harm than good by aeroslizing virus particles into the air as forced thru the mask

without masks, any virus attached to drolets would have dropped harmlessly to the ground

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The data is irrefutable as I said.  I am willing to bet not everyone is wearing masks and social distancing in California as you suggest.

You are WRONG. 

[spartacus]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The data is irrefutable as I said.  I am willing to bet not everyone is wearing masks and social distancing in California as you suggest.

irrefutable - just because you say so

 

the facts say otherwise

https://www.redstate.com/tladuke/2020/10/12/new-cdc-report-shows-wearing-masks-didnt-help-for-july./

[oldmanfan]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

You are WRONG. 

I just looked up some data.  California's rate of infection per 100k for the past week is the 6th lowest in the country.  You may want to check that data yourself.

 

Masks, and distancing work.  Handwashing work.  None by themselves are perfect and none by themselves stop the spread, but together they greatly minimize spread.  Every public health professional, every epidemiologist, will tell you this.  The data is irrefutable, and you are just simply wrong and being pig headed about it for some stupid political reason.

 

 

2 minutes ago, spartacus said:

irrefutable - just because you say so

 

the facts say otherwise

https://www.redstate.com/tladuke/2020/10/12/new-cdc-report-shows-wearing-masks-didnt-help-for-july./

You post drivel from a right wing talk fest.  The data on scientific studies on passage of droplets and such through masks are irrefutable.  

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I just looked up some data.  California's rate of infection per 100k for the past week is the 6th lowest in the country.  You may want to check that data yourself.

 

Masks, and distancing work.  Handwashing work.  None by themselves are perfect and none by themselves stop the spread, but together they greatly minimize spread.  Every public health professional, every epidemiologist, will tell you this.  The data is irrefutable, and you are just simply wrong and being pig headed about it for some stupid political reason.

You’re missing my point. I’m not arguing about masks. We’ve been wearing masks. The argument has evolved with the data and you’ve clearly missed it. The current debate is whether slowing the spread has ANY real chance of stopping the spread. I can tell you that it doesn’t. All it does is prolong the inevitable spread. But go ahead with yesterday’s science if it makes you feel safer.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’re missing my point. I’m not arguing about masks. We’ve been wearing masks. The argument has evolved with the data and you’ve clearly missed it. The current debate is whether slowing the spread has ANY real chance of stopping the spread. I can tell you that it doesn’t. All it does is prolong the inevitable spread. But go ahead with yesterday’s science if it makes you feel safer.

Viruses require a host to propagate.  If you and I each wear a mask then I have more trouble passing the virus to you and vice versa.  Thus you limit the ability of virus to find a host and the infection rate dies out.  

 

We need to slow down the spread as much as possible until we get a vaccine that will hopefully immunize against Covid (although just this week two candidate vaccines had to be halted in trials so I'm starting to wonder if we'll get one) or until we have more effective treatment strategies (such as with HIV).

 

When people talk about getting back to normal, much of what we did before Covid can be done now if we all wear masks and distance.  For example, I go to church every week again.  The businesses really getting killed are the bar/restaurant and theater industries.  My daughter is a performer and opportunities like theater shows, cruise ships, etc. are gone so I get it. 

 

You want the spread to stop, as in no more Covid.  So do I.  That's not happening anytime soon.  So we have to do our best to slow it down as much as possible.

 

 

[shoshin]

43 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Old man. I live in California. We’ve all been wearing masks ‘religiously’ for SIX MONTHS!! We still got our wave of the virus. You can keep wishing on the mask thing. I won’t stop you.

 

California has the flattest curve of outbreak and one of the lowest per population infection rates.

 

CA has done a better job than almost any state. 

 

We still all need to be open. It's frustrating to hear governors (including mine) mumbling about shutdowns in any way. 

[spartacus]

39 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I just looked up some data.  California's rate of infection per 100k for the past week is the 6th lowest in the country.  You may want to check that data yourself.

 

Masks, and distancing work.  Handwashing work.  None by themselves are perfect and none by themselves stop the spread, but together they greatly minimize spread.  Every public health professional, every epidemiologist, will tell you this.  The data is irrefutable, and you are just simply wrong and being pig headed about it for some stupid political reason.

 

 

You post drivel from a right wing talk fest.  The data on scientific studies on passage of droplets and such through masks are irrefutable.  

way to deflect

the data is from the CDC

masks do not stop the virus

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, spartacus said:

way to deflect

the data is from the CDC

masks do not stop the virus

They absolutely do, there are any number of scientific articles that say so, and denying it is ridiculous.  And to be clear, what masks do is help mitigate (not completely stop) the spread of droplet and aerosols which are the main routes of viral transmission.  The virus is not shed as free virus.

Edited October 14, 2020 by oldmanfan

[spartacus]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They absolutely do, there are any number of scientific articles that say so, and denying it is ridiculous.  And to be clear, what masks do is help mitigate (not completely stop) the spread of droplet and aerosols which are the main routes of viral transmission.  The virus is not shed as free virus.

no matter what the media tell you

physics provide that large holes (.5 micron) do not stop smaller aerosols and viral particles (<.14 micron)

 

The CDC data of actual activity support this

https://www.redstate.com/tladuke/2020/10/12/new-cdc-report-shows-wearing-masks-didnt-help-for-july./

 

please provide the conclusive research that proves that the "virus is not shed as free virus"

this is just more mumbo jumbo to support the main stream mask agenda

 

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, spartacus said:

no matter what the media tell you

physics provide that large holes (.5 micron) do not stop smaller aerosols and viral particles (<.14 micron)

 

The CDC data of actual activity support this

https://www.redstate.com/tladuke/2020/10/12/new-cdc-report-shows-wearing-masks-didnt-help-for-july./

 

please provide the conclusive research that proves that the "virus is not shed as free virus"

this is just more mumbo jumbo to support the main stream mask agenda

 

From the CDC (and you can also look at Mayo Clinic and any other reputable medical source):

 

• The virus that causes COVID-19 most commonly spreads between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet, or 2 arm lengths).
• It spreads through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols, produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, sings, talks, or breathes.
  • These particles can be inhaled into the nose, mouth, airways, and lungs and cause infection. This is thought to be the main way the virus spreads.
  • Droplets can also land on surfaces and objects and be transferred by touch. A person may get COVID-19 by touching the surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or eyes. Spread from touching surfaces is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.
• It is possible that COVID-19 may spread through the droplets and airborne particles that are formed when a person who has COVID-19 coughs, sneezes, sings, talks, or breathes. There is growing evidence that droplets and airborne particles can remain suspended in the air and be breathed in by others, and travel distances beyond 6 feet (for example, during choir practice, in restaurants, or in fitness classes). In general, indoor environments without good ventilation increase this risk.

COVID-19 seems to be spreading easily and sustainably in the community (“community spread”) in many affected geographic areas. Community spread means people have been infected with the virus in an area, including some who are not sure how or where they became infected.

[GaryPinC]

22 hours ago, Cinga said:

Here:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/health/who-coronavirus-world-population-intl/index.html

 

if 10% of the world population has been infected that is about 750 million. 1.1 million (rounded up a lot) divided by 750 million comes to about .14% deaths

That's "may have been infected" not "has been infected".  It's all estimates.  The studies I've seen try assess asymptomatics are from the spring and the ones that actually bothered to follow through had around 80% of the asymptomatics become symptomatic within 7-10 days.  Which means they most likely wouldn't have escaped testing.

 

The best way to figure it out will be antibody testing and that'll be awhile. 

 

They way the WHO has botched this thing (they're just now admitting lockdowns isn't the best way to handle this anymore), I hope you'll forgive me if I disregard their "estimates". 

[GaryPinC]

On 10/13/2020 at 2:23 PM, spartacus said:

better question is where is the evidence that asymptomatic people can actually transmit the virus

 

the research done by the WHO researcher clearly showed based on actual cases that it was unlikely for virus to be transmitted by those without symptoms

although the WHO issued a retraction, the researcher stood by her conclusion.

this is consistent with the need to have a very high viral load to make someone sick, let alone have enough virus particles to transit to others

 

without the above, masks serve no purpose whatsoever

 

 

The evidence is there.  Contact tracing will reveal it, I don't know how much has been published but it will.  I can trust the authorities on that one.  How significant a factor is it?  Well, that's a different discussion and less certain.  Doesn't mean your WHO researcher's was a solid enough study though.

 

Having a brother who recovered from Covid and a daughter twice directly exposed here in Ohio, here's the rules the Ohio department of health and county departments of health told us:           - If you exhibit symptoms you were contagious up to 2 days before they began.

                - Once your major symptoms (fever, cough) have cleared up you are considered non-contagious after 48 hours.  The other county DOH mandates only 24 hours.  Even if you are having minor symptoms or still not 100%, you no longer need to quarantine.

 

Masks are going to slow down or stop the projection and dispersion of your breath moisture.  And also keep that moisture close to you.  Coupled with social distancing that should be beneficial to slow down or stop the spread of a respiratory bacteria or virus.  They primarily protect others from you, not the opposite.  Same reasons surgeons wear them.

Edited October 14, 2020 by GaryPinC