I know its just PFF but still, did #97 play that poorly?

[Mr. WEO]

Top 3.

 

/thread

[Hapless Bills Fan]

55 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Jordan Phillips has had 1 solid year, plus last year which was good.... more of a role guy, this year he proved himself more so.

 

That being said I think his value is around $7-8M per.... he’s been healthy. With Stars And his large contract  being gone after next season I see the Bills offering a 4 year $30-32M, that’s roughly 8 per, which I think is at the top of his market, don’t think he’ll get a better offer.

 

I think that the Bills will make him an offer, possibly a bit more than that annually with a bit shorter duration....

 

I think he'll get a better offer from someone who looks at the sacks.

[costrovs]

 

It's not over my head, Star still sucks, but whatever....

 

back on topic, 

PFF tries to over analyze things way to much, and then gives players a score based on there own made up analytics. Like saying

 

'Josh Allen throws better to the left off his back foot than his right off his back foot. which makes sense because he's right handed. so we'll give him a 67 score

He also has a better completion percentage when throwing less than 10 yards past the line, so we'll five him an 86

But Josh had a horrible completion percentage throwing 30+ yards downfield so he'll only get a 4.3 score for that.

Then using our super duper secret formula we add all those numbers up and divide them by 3.14 

and we get a final score of 43.7

That puts josh at the 33rd best QB in the league.'

 

Kinda how someone said PFF has Dak rated as the 2nd best QB. 

And Jordan is ranked as the 153rd best. yeah, ok.

I agree with 34-78-83, I'd put him at top 25-35 ranked DT.

 

Some of PFF's stuff I can agree with, it's rookie ranking, fantasy rankings, best available free agents.

It's scoring system not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GreggTX]

The only reason many Bills fans hate PFF is because they are brutally honest and some people can't handle it.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 1/18/2020 at 2:27 PM, HappyDays said:

I don't care about PFF rankings and 153rd out of 197 seems too low to me. But I do think he was overrated by Bills fans this year. I will say that he finishes plays well, when he gets to the QB he's going to get the sack more often than not. Which gives him gaudy sack numbers. However I don't think he makes enough plays across the board. So on a play to play basis he is replaceable. Especially in the run game, where he was terrible most of the year.

 

Ideally we'd be able to bring him back at a sensible price. He's good rotational depth if nothing else, and you can put him on the field on obvious passing downs. But I think some team will overpay him based on his sack numbers and I would just let him walk in that case. We drafted his replacement in the 1st round last year, he was never going to be part of the long term plan. We'll find someone cheaper that can back up Ed Oliver in the draft or free agency.

We don't have back-ups, we employ a rotation.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:02 AM, CEN-CAL17 said:

Jordan Phillips has had 1 solid year, plus last year which was good.... more of a role guy, this year he proved himself more so.

 

That being said I think his value is around $7-8M per.... he’s been healthy. With Stars And his large contract  being gone after next season I see the Bills offering a 4 year $30-32M, that’s roughly 8 per, which I think is at the top of his market, don’t think he’ll get a better offer.

For the millionth time.  Star doesn't have a large contract.  I actually expect them to offer Phillips a contract in that neighborhood.

 

6yr 100mil is a large contract.

5yr 50mil is not

 

[thebandit27]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

The only reason many Bills fans hate PFF is because they are brutally honest and some people can't handle it.

That’s the thing: their grades are not based on anything other than what they believe a player should be doing on a play without knowing his responsibility. They use data analysts to review All-22, not football people. It would be one thing if they got former Asst QC coaches from small colleges (for example) that are used to compiling hours and hours of film and at least have a clue of what they’re seeing; guys that can (again, just an example) tell whether a DT is following his read key and properly reacting to his pressure key in the half-second after the snap. I mean, I’ve watched a TON of All-22 film in the last 15 years, and most of the time I’m just guessing. To do that correctly for every player on every team for every snap of the season would be incredibly difficult for even a seasoned pro. To assume that statisticians can do so is pretty dubious IMO.

14 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

For the millionth time.  Star doesn't have a large contract.  I actually expect them to offer Phillips a contract in that neighborhood.

 

6yr 100mil is a large contract.

5yr 50mil is not

 

I still think there’s a fair chance that Phillips gets PAID. How often does a healthy, 340-lb, 26-year old pass rusher hit the open market?

[Stank_Nasty]

7 hours ago, GreggTX said:

The only reason many Bills fans hate PFF is because they are brutally honest and some people can't handle it.

so you agree tre white was the 19th best corner in the league? interesting.

 

 

that's not being brutally honest. that's brutally stupid

Edited January 24, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

That’s the thing: their grades are not based on anything other than what they believe a player should be doing on a play without knowing his responsibility. They use data analysts to review All-22, not football people. It would be one thing if they got former Asst QC coaches from small colleges (for example) that are used to compiling hours and hours of film and at least have a clue of what they’re seeing; guys that can (again, just an example) tell whether a DT is following his read key and properly reacting to his pressure key in the half-second after the snap. I mean, I’ve watched a TON of All-22 film in the last 15 years, and most of the time I’m just guessing. To do that correctly for every player on every team for every snap of the season would be incredibly difficult for even a seasoned pro. To assume that statisticians can do so is pretty dubious IMO.

I still think there’s a fair chance that Phillips gets PAID. How often does a healthy, 340-lb, 26-year old pass rusher hit the open market?

Someone probably will.  It's likely we offer him in the 10-12mil per range.  Probably 3-4 years.  That would be my best offer though and likely the Bills as well.

[YoloinOhio]

Apparently it’s because they don’t know what position he plays 

 

 

[GoBills808]

24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Apparently it’s because they don’t know what position he plays 

 

 

lmfao that's one of the worst football things I've ever read

[CEN-CAL17]

12 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

For the millionth time.  Star doesn't have a large contract.  I actually expect them to offer Phillips a contract in that neighborhood.

 

6yr 100mil is a large contract.

5yr 50mil is not

 

You think Phillips is gonna get 5 yr $50M? Point is Star has a tough contract to get out of until next year. It’s what, $8M dead money if he’s released? You think Star is worth $10M per? If so, we can agree to disagree.

[whatdrought]

17 hours ago, GreggTX said:

The only reason many Bills fans hate PFF is because they are brutally honest and some people can't handle it.

so, you work for pff then, huh?

 

#duckisbetterthanallen

[Dopey]

40 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

You think Phillips is gonna get 5 yr $50M? Point is Star has a tough contract to get out of until next year. It’s what, $8M dead money if he’s released? You think Star is worth $10M per? If so, we can agree to disagree.

What makes you think Beane wants to get rid of him? The price of good dts isn't going down. Maybe they see Star is doing exactly what they signed him to do. For the price he signed for. I think he's worth his contract. So does Beane. Why folks keep insisting it's a forgone conclusion he'll be cut next year is misguided. Oliver and Harrison are on rookie deals. When their payday comes, Star will probably be out. It's almost like there's a plan in place. Imagine that.

[formerlyofCtown]

On 1/24/2020 at 8:38 PM, CEN-CAL17 said:

You think Phillips is gonna get 5 yr $50M? Point is Star has a tough contract to get out of until next year. It’s what, $8M dead money if he’s released? You think Star is worth $10M per? If so, we can agree to disagree.

3yrs 10mil+ per.  That’s the market.  The top of the food chain is now 15-20mil per.  That’s just the facts.  You and I have nothing to agree or disagree on because our opinions don’t mean Jack.  Take a peak at the salary cap.

 

Now I will admit that there will be some Vet bargains at DT this offseason.

[T master]

On 1/18/2020 at 11:41 AM, Da webster guy said:

The sack numbers were great, but even if PFF is a joke, there has to be SOME merit in their analysis no?

 

PFF gives Jordan Phillips an overall grade of 51.8, which ranks 153rd out of 197 defensive linemen in the league. His pass-rush grade of 60.5 ranks 94th among defensive linemen. Of Phillips' 583 snaps in 2019, 362 were in pass rush (putting him 40th among D-linemen) and 218 were against the run, according to PFF. He played 52.4% of the Bills' defensive snaps.

 

I think Beane got in touch with some one at PFF & paid them off to write this stuff so the Bills could get Phillips back under contract at a reasonable price ! ?

[Rigotz]

The main reason not to sign him is that someone else will probably offer him a huge contract.

If they offer him a huge contract, we have a chance at a 3rd round compensatory pick.

 

I know that for some reason, people don't like talking about comp picks around here... but a third round pick is a valuable asset.

[warrior9]

On 1/18/2020 at 2:53 PM, costrovs said:

Phillips was our best D-lineman on the team this past season. I can't understand how some people don't realize that. just keeping it simple, stats and eyeball test says he was.

Lawson sucks, Hughes isn't as good as people think he is, Murphy isn't great either, and Lotulelei sucks also, and Oliver isn't gonna be what everyone thinks he's gonna be ( no, i'm not an Oliver fan - one of the few people that disliked the pick), I hope I'm wrong on Oliver, but he's undersized, and cocky. I'd take 6'5" 340+ lb D-linemen over 6'1 <300 lbs linemen everyday. 

 

One thing that really confuses me, is that some of you don't want to resign Phillips, but totally wanted OBD to sign Lawson to his 5th year contract last off-season ($10+ million). Phillips had just about the same number of sacks (9.5) in this year alone, than Lawson put up in his first 3 years here (10). He had 6.5 this year. You guys wanted to pay someone who hasn't done jack for 3 years, $10+ million, but sit there and say, 'hmmm, I don't really wanna pay Phillips $10 million a year, even though he played way better than Lawson, or Hughes, or anybody for that matter. But I'll be more than happy to shell out $10 million to a guy like Lawson who hasn't done a thing.'  wtf people?

 

  Now, would I pay Phillips $10+ million? I'd give him $8M - $12M a year over 4 or 5 years. Hell, Kyle Williams was getting around $10M a year over his last 3 years here. And Phillips has more sacks and more TFL's this past year, than Williams had his last 2 seasons here. 

............ did you watch any football? do you like the Bills? Do you know what assignments are on every play? Did you watch Shaq Lawson play the run? Did you watch Jordan Phillips play the run? 

 

Believe it or not, there is more to football than stat sheets and sacks. Star actually had a pretty solid second half of the year. Shaq Lawson played the run VERY well and had a few sacks but played a lot less than Murphy/ Hughes. 

 

If our Dline is as bad as you think it is and you still want to resign our worst run defender, I have to question your logic. And then ask the question.... how did we win 10 games if our dline was so bad?

[MAJBobby]

Phillips run defense is flat out horrible 

[GoBills808]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Phillips run defense is flat out horrible 

Which sucks because 1-that's something he could work on w/his bodytype if he so chose to and 2-he's really, really good in pass rush 1v1

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Which sucks because 1-that's something he could work on w/his bodytype if he so chose to and 2-he's really, really good in pass rush 1v1

agreed he has the body to play the run. I don’t think he has the heart too. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I honestly felt like he benefited the most from the improved play of shaq lawson.  Just felt like shaq would do something good and philips always ended up with the sack.

[warrior9]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Phillips run defense is flat out horrible 

Yeah, did you ever notices he "loses his footing" a lot? 

 

It's definitely frustrating and I would not pay him above 6-7 annually. 

 

Unless its a 1 year 8-8.5 million dollar prove it deal.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

Yeah, did you ever notices he "loses his footing" a lot? 

 

It's definitely frustrating and I would not pay him above 6-7 annually. 

 

Unless its a 1 year 8-8.5 million dollar prove it deal.

he does end up on the ground a lot. 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

agreed he has the body to play the run. I don’t think he has the heart too. 

Harsh but accurate imo

 

Willingness to do the dirty work for a DT in the trenches is valued in this system but you won't flash

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Harsh but accurate imo

 

Willingness to do the dirty work for a DT in the trenches is valued in this system but you won't flash

yeah he should have really looked at Star and said well they gave him 10M and he just eats blocks. If I play a bit like that and still can get 5+ sacks I will really bank. 
 

his lack of run defense is going to give him an awakening now that Tampering has started 

[WideNine]

On 1/18/2020 at 10:32 AM, TroutDog said:

It’s not just PFF: all of the All-22 reviews I read during the season basically said he was a liability in the run game for stretches. The Athletic pointed it out regularly. 

 

That is an area of his game that needs work...how to anchor, but the dude has a burst and can get upfield from the interior. In a league that prioritizes passing he has value.

 

Most defensive linemen are part of rotations or situational packages, not sure why he would get dinged that badly for not being the best space eater against the run.

 

He will get paid. If not here, somewhere else and no hard feelings.

 

 

[warrior9]

15 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

That is an area of his game that needs work...how to anchor, but the dude has a burst and can get upfield from the interior. In a league that prioritizes passing he has value.

 

Most defensive linemen are part of rotations or situational packages, not sure why he would get dinged that badly for not being the best space eater against the run.

 

He will get paid. If not here, somewhere else and no hard feelings.

 

 

Jimmy G threw less than 20 passes in the last 2 play off games and the top 5 passers this year did not make the playoffs and the top 5 rushing attacks did make the playoffs, I don't know that the league prioritizes passing.

 

In today's NFL, you need to be able to stop the run to win and JP is definitely a liability in the run. This is why I think Shaq is pretty valuable, he was a pretty good run defender this year.

[WideNine]

21 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Jimmy G threw less than 20 passes in the last 2 play off games and the top 5 passers this year did not make the playoffs and the top 5 rushing attacks did make the playoffs, I don't know that the league prioritizes passing.

 

In today's NFL, you need to be able to stop the run to win and JP is definitely a liability in the run. This is why I think Shaq is pretty valuable, he was a pretty good run defender this year.

 

Wont find me disagreeing with you. Strong defense and a running game that can move the sticks are still the best way to keep a strangle-hold on a lead, milk the clock, and force a passing team into mistakes and turn overs.

 

That being said there are a lot of teams that emphasize passing and empty sets and teams need to get to the QB.

 

 

[Dopey]

15 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

That is an area of his game that needs work...how to anchor, but the dude has a burst and can get upfield from the interior. In a league that prioritizes passing he has value.

 

Most defensive linemen are part of rotations or situational packages, not sure why he would get dinged that badly for not being the best space eater against the run.

 

He will get paid. If not here, somewhere else and no hard feelings.

 

 

He does need work on this, but he'll be 28 yrs old next September. I'm thinking he is what he is by now.

[WideNine]

33 minutes ago, Dopey said:

He does need work on this, but he'll be 28 yrs old next September. I'm thinking he is what he is by now.

 

Good point.

 

I am not arguing to overpay, just that he is a good fit on a team that needs a guy that can get upfield on an interior pass rush rotation.

 

The Bills may have that covered with Oliver and Harry coming back and some feel Oliver is better vs the run.