Don Otreply Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I doubt this. I do think that Zay Jones failing to try to deflect an INT as John Brown and others will was one reason he got shipped out of town, but that is different. Really? I would have thought he would be able to express himself in confidence to his coaches in private without fear of retribution. Oh well, guess I’m wrong, Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 5 hours ago, row_33 said: Certain personalities work better in key roles For the highest levels of sports it’s seems that a mind that doesn’t think much, but reacts quickly and optimally to each given situation is best And you can’t teach that I think that's baloney. Maybe someone who performs at the highest levels of sports will say different. I think it's like anything else. You start with a certain level of performance. Some people are naturally more in that mind state. But everyone can improve. For a young player, a lot of it is working to the point of automaticity. If you listened to Romo when he started announcing, he was reacting 100% as an NFL QB. He was reading the defense and announcing what the offensive play should be. I doubt he was consciously processing it, and he wasn't breaking down what he saw as audiences need. He needed to reverse a process he'd undergone as a young QB and go back to the place where he could step by step explain what his conclusions were. Josh is trying to put a lot of things together right now. He's trying to change and improve aspects of his throwing technique, but it breaks down under pressure and perhaps under nerves. That's an issue of repetition to the point where it's instinctive - the "professionals practice until they can't get it wrong" thing. If he works hard this off season he'll get there. He may have to work differently - recruit some assistants to roll balls at him or run at him and throw up hands and such. Similar kind of thing with reading various defenses pre and post snap and figuring out what that means for the called play and for the way the defense impacts what's most likely to be open. He's come a long way but it's not automatic yet, and that means it's slower than it will be. There are some guys who don't take that step, but many do - it's not just a "can't teach that". There are things Josh does have that you can't teach - the way he got the 4th down in the Dallas game and again vs. the Pats. That's him, that can't be coached. That's just the instictive reactions of a fierce athletic competitor 8 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Really? I would have thought he would be able to express himself in confidence to his coaches in private without fear of retribution. Oh well, guess I’m wrong, Go Bills!!! It has nothing to do with "fear of retribution" and everything to do with the mindset of a natural leader. Share victory, shoulder blame. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I'd argue we already do due to McDermott's approach...he is basically working with them non stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdutton Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I work with young shooting athletes as the director/coach of a Junior rifle team in NH. My daughter and several other members of the team have gone on to compete in NCAA Varsity Rifle teams on scholarships. Sports Psychology is a critical part of high performance elite athletics... more so in highly individualized sports like Golf and Rifle/Pistol. I attended a seminar lead by Dr. Alan Goldberg who was the sports psychologist for the CT Womens Basketball team. He's excellent. I also have read the book Bullseye Mind written by Raymond Pryor, PhD and sports Psychologist for the multi National Championship team West Virginia University. The same team that boasted of Freshman Ginny Thrasher who won the first gold medal of the 2016 Olympics in Womens Air Rifle. I bought several copies so that my team members can read it as well. I perform individual and team drills specifically designed to force athletes to experience the pressure of a match within our practices. I also train them in various mental relaxation methods to help calm the body and return the mind to the moment. Every NFL team should have a sports psychologist on their staff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think that's baloney. Maybe someone who performs at the highest levels of sports will say different. I think it's like anything else. You start with a certain level of performance. Some people are naturally more in that mind state. But everyone can improve. For a young player, a lot of it is working to the point of automaticity. If you listened to Romo when he started announcing, he was reacting 100% as an NFL QB. He was reading the defense and announcing what the offensive play should be. I doubt he was consciously processing it, and he wasn't breaking down what he saw as audiences need. He needed to reverse a process he'd undergone as a young QB and go back to the place where he could step by step explain what his conclusions were. Josh is trying to put a lot of things together right now. He's trying to change and improve aspects of his throwing technique, but it breaks down under pressure and perhaps under nerves. That's an issue of repetition to the point where it's instinctive - the "professionals practice until they can't get it wrong" thing. If he works hard this off season he'll get there. He may have to work differently - recruit some assistants to roll balls at him or run at him and throw up hands and such. Similar kind of thing with reading various defenses pre and post snap and figuring out what that means for the called play and for the way the defense impacts what's most likely to be open. He's come a long way but it's not automatic yet, and that means it's slower than it will be. There are some guys who don't take that step, but many do - it's not just a "can't teach that". There are things Josh does have that you can't teach - the way he got the 4th down in the Dallas game and again vs. the Pats. That's him, that can't be coached. That's just the instictive reactions of a fierce athletic competitor It has nothing to do with "fear of retribution" and everything to do with the mindset of a natural leader. Share victory, shoulder blame. I get that as a concept, but I would think they vent and then get right back at it, again one on one with your coach, not during a game, and not in public, the smart ones never throw anyone under the bus, and always say the right thing when in public/ to reporters etc. Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Ga boy said: It’s called nerves, jitters, excitement, or even stress. The brain shuts down because of release of neural chemicals and this affects motor functions. Only solution is playing time on world’s biggest stage. Experience is his friend. He didn’t get much big stage experience pre-NFL. We can’t expect this to change this Sat. Maybe next year or year after. He is starting to show that he knows where to throw it, but he is too amped to execute, or he just doesn’t have the accuracy skill set. The former can improve with experience, but not sure about the latter. Go Bills!! I had some discussion about this with another member in PM. I think the first part is right, but I disagree about the "only solution is playing time on the world's biggest stage". The analogy I draw is to fields where I have some familiarity - musical competition/performance, piloting, and EMS. Things that can help in musical competition are biofeedback (learning to control those neural chemicals) and visualization (mental reps or practice including visualizing what the auditorium will look like from video, walking onstage, going through a set up routine, performing). A shorter term strategy is to try to induce the same symptoms and practice that way. For example, a musician whose hands get cold due to those stress chemicals might soak hands in cold water and practice. A musician who feels hyped up and jittery might try to produce those symptoms and practice. The idea is to build familiarity and confidence that they can be in this situation and feel those physical feelings/symptoms and still perform correctly. Things that help in piloting and EMS is drill, drill, drill, drill, drill and more drill. EMS and pilots don't get the luxury of waiting until actual emergencies to learn how to handle them! And we need too many to self-select the guys with the "right stuff". Good instructors seek to include stress and pressure in the drills as much as they can. Then when the fit hits the shan you don't think, you just do. Some of it is stump simple and sounds hokey. For example as a pilot I was trained to set 2 fingers on the instrument panel to trigger me to verbalize "Next Two Things" while working a problem. I can say that, having been one of two pilots in a small plane that was filling with smoke above clouds so low commercial flights were unable to land, about all that drill stuff: It works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 30 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: I get that as a concept, but I would think they vent and then get right back at it, again one on one with your coach, not during a game, and not in public, the smart ones never throw anyone under the bus, and always say the right thing when in public/ to reporters etc. Go Bills!!! At this point, it's surmising. I think it's a matter of mental self discipline - never let yourself blame someone else to your coaches etc. Just focus on what you can control, always. Everyone sees the drops on film, I'm sure the coaches critique if it needed to be a better throw but they feel it should have been caught, good throw that was must be caught, etc. I'm sure sometimes the players say something directly to another player in the heat of the moment. Kelly was famous for yelling "LOOK IT IN!" at Reed if Reed failed to bring in what he thought was a catchable ball. But after the moment, need to put it down and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Ga boy said: It’s called nerves, jitters, excitement, or even stress. The brain shuts down because of release of neural chemicals and this affects motor functions. Only solution is playing time on world’s biggest stage. Experience is his friend. He didn’t get much big stage experience pre-NFL. We can’t expect this to change this Sat. Maybe next year or year after. He is starting to show that he knows where to throw it, but he is too amped to execute, or he just doesn’t have the accuracy skill set. The former can improve with experience, but not sure about the latter. Go Bills!! He played three nationally televised games this year @ Dallas, @ Pittsburgh and @ New England. He won 2 out of those 3 games on the ROAD with the help of the defense and was 4 plays away from taking the 3rd to overtime. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I used to play in a tennis league with a sports psychologist. He could be counted on to double fault in tight situations late in a set. I don’t think he was at the top of his field. ? I do think there are qualified people who can help to some degree in certain situations. No stone unturned, I suppose..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Josh's worst enemy is the 1st quarter.... Then Daboll needs to get him into a rhythm from the get go to dispel the butterflies. A short, easy pass or two or a couple designed QB runs perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I had some discussion about this with another member in PM. I think the first part is right, but I disagree about the "only solution is playing time on the world's biggest stage". The analogy I draw is to fields where I have some familiarity - musical competition/performance, piloting, and EMS. Things that can help in musical competition are biofeedback (learning to control those neural chemicals) and visualization (mental reps or practice including visualizing what the auditorium will look like from video, walking onstage, going through a set up routine, performing). A shorter term strategy is to try to induce the same symptoms and practice that way. For example, a musician whose hands get cold due to those stress chemicals might soak hands in cold water and practice. A musician who feels hyped up and jittery might try to produce those symptoms and practice. The idea is to build familiarity and confidence that they can be in this situation and feel those physical feelings/symptoms and still perform correctly. Things that help in piloting and EMS is drill, drill, drill, drill, drill and more drill. EMS and pilots don't get the luxury of waiting until actual emergencies to learn how to handle them! And we need too many to self-select the guys with the "right stuff". Good instructors seek to include stress and pressure in the drills as much as they can. Then when the fit hits the shan you don't think, you just do. Some of it is stump simple and sounds hokey. For example as a pilot I was trained to set 2 fingers on the instrument panel to trigger me to verbalize "Next Two Things" while working a problem. I can say that, having been one of two pilots in a small plane that was filling with smoke above clouds so low commercial flights were unable to land, about all that drill stuff: It works. You've bring some interesting experiences and insights about the psychology of operating efficiently in stressful situations. I agree with you about drill and more drill. As an educator, I've seen some of the brightest students with the most test anxiety. In many cases, more experience helps, including test simulations. Maybe there are some mind strategies that a psychologist can prescribe for Josh; however, I think that he may need more drills when the bullets are live in real game situations. Again, I think compared to other successful QBs, he has been at a disadvantage with big game experience. He is getting more of that as he has been thrown into the fire for two years. NFL QB is the toughest position in the sports world. My eyes tell me he is making progress (eg - Cowboys, Steelers) and hope that we continue to see this Sat. If not, it will be another school of hard knocks that could result in either his mental toughness being stronger or weaker. We've seen our share of shelled shocked QBs. This game will be either a confidence builder or shaker for Josh. This will be part of the drama that will make this game interesting to me. I believe that Josh has the "right stuff," but this will be his biggest test. Go Bills!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: At this point, it's surmising. I think it's a matter of mental self discipline - never let yourself blame someone else to your coaches etc. Just focus on what you can control, always. Everyone sees the drops on film, I'm sure the coaches critique if it needed to be a better throw but they feel it should have been caught, good throw that was must be caught, etc. I'm sure sometimes the players say something directly to another player in the heat of the moment. Kelly was famous for yelling "LOOK IT IN!" at Reed if Reed failed to bring in what he thought was a catchable ball. But after the moment, need to put it down and move on. All good points, on to the next concern for the Buffalo Bills, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkollidas Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I think something helpful for allen would be if they decided to run some jet sweeps, or even a trick play with John brown throwing it again. Something to totally put Houston off kilter. It would quiet the crowd and five our offense some confidence early on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 14 hours ago, TigerJ said: It's well accepted to be a real thing. Elite athletes in many fields use a sports psychologist to prepare for the pressure of important competitions. The question is, to what degree are they employed in football? I raise this question because it would seem as if it could be helpful for a young QB like Josh Allen. He has spoken at press conferences about the the importance of him of not getting too amped up for a game that to fans at least seems to have greater than normal pressure - a nationally televised game or (as in the case of this weekend) a playoff game. At the same time we've seen where in such games he will sometimes wrestle with overthrows. So, I wonder, does the team employ a sports psychologist to help players, especially young skill position players, cope with pressure, or does Sean rely on his own experience in that regard. I know he puts great stock in maintaining routine, and emphasis on the one game at a time focus that is a part of the culture he's brought to Buffalo. If he does not employ a sports psychologist, I wonder if it would be to Allen's benefit to use one. Maybe he already does. Does anyone recall anything that's ever been said by the team about the use of sports psychologists? Do you think they should employ one? I think it would be a great question for someon in the media to ask McDermott some time. I wouldn't be suprised at all if this has been thought about somewhere and if it hasn't, it should be. He seems to play better when not thinking as much so it's controlling the overthinking part of the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, row_33 said: Certain personalities work better in key roles For the highest levels of sports it’s seems that a mind that doesn’t think much, but reacts quickly and optimally to each given situation is best And you can’t teach that You can teach it, it's called preparation. Prepare and practice. It doesn't matter how good you are if you're not prepared. This is why coaching is so important. Ex...McD playing renegade all week for the Pittsburgh game. When the time came, they were more than prepared. Edited January 2, 2020 by TwistofFate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) Lots of elite athletes have someone they trust to get them through possible mental barriers. If I were advising Josh Allen I’d tell him he needs to understand the game can’t be won in the 1st Qtr nor lost. He needs to read the defense & take what they are giving him. Getting the ball out on time, and trusting his eyes and instinct will work. Football also isn’t a one man game. If it were Aaron Rodgers would have as many Super Bowl titles as Tom Brady. There is a good article about the 10,000 hour rule. Meaning the difference between a great talent and an amateur is 10,000 hours of practice. Allen is in year 2 of his professional development not counting the moment he walked out of high school in 2014. We all know Allen’s story to college then the NFL. Every step of the way Allen has been counted out. The detractors are vast and no doubt will be out in full force if he stumbles Saturday no matter how well he performs. These are the same talking heads who say the Bills schedule was soft and when we win it’s often in-spite of Allen’s play. Allen was chosen because our FO believes in him as a leader. He wants to reward that faith by perhaps playing too perfect and at times conservative. Come the playoffs it’s more about preparation and execution and the will to win. Sure there are a ton of variables out of Allen’s control, line play, running game, pass protection, but a good leader can instill confidence and accountability in his teammates. Edited January 2, 2020 by Dr.Sack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 12 hours ago, jethro_tull said: I agree with you completely and have been saying this for years. They can help the entire team for a number of reasons as well as help select players that will be team leaders. I actually wrote an article about this for a former Bills site. Below is the article for your reference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tae Kwan Do Maybe, Team Sports Psychologist Definitely The Bills had recently contracted an expert in tae kwan do martial arts to assist in developing hand techniques for the defensive line. This kind of supplemental training can theoretically enhance and polish a player's technique and skill sets in a most practical application. As with any training, a good portion of the results are up to the student. A highly motivated player will realize more tangible, on-field "real world" benefit from any training or coaching he may receive. What about the player who might be distracted by a lengthy, drawn out contract negotiation process? How is his motivation? How about the player with an upcoming legal trial? Is he able to concentrate and perform at his highest level with a court date, perhaps for his second offense, looming large in the horizon? What was his mental "table setting" like that lead him to become involved in issues leading to arrest in the first place? What about the 22 year old newly crowned rookie millionaire? Is his head in the meeting, at practice or in the game as well as it could be? What about that new attention magnet superstar? Is he really a part of the team? How is his presence affecting the team’s ability to learn, develop and perform? Are any Bills players affected by conditions such as these? Unfortunately at present, the entire Bills roster is right in the middle of one if not more of these conditions. How would the team benefit if these issues could be minimized, satisfactorily resolved at the team level or prevented in the first place? The Journal of Psychology published an article in 1997 entitled “The Relationship between Leadership Behaviors and Group Cohesion in Team Sports”. The article referred to the LSS, or Leadership Scale for Sports. The scale applies to both delegated team leaders (coaches) and non-delegated leaders (players). It breaks down into (5) basic categories, Training and Instruction, Democratic Behavior, Autocratic Behavior, Social Support, and Positive Feedback. The scale can be administered as a test to coaches and players. The journal reported a strong relationship between high LSS scores, “team cohesiveness” and on-field success. Teams with high cohesiveness tend be a team in its purest definition, a group of people linked to a common purpose. When teams are cohesive, the individuals are better able to minimize external distractions for the benefit of the team. They also become highly motivated and place more emphasis on avoiding behaviors which could get them (and the team) into trouble. High LSS scores mean that the players not only cover for each other, they also hold each other accountable. They’ve got each other’s back and they watch their backs at the same time. A qualified sports psychologist can assess the coaches and players, detect areas of strength and need, and help develop coaching and team leaders which will bring about higher levels of team cohesiveness. The concept of sporting organizations utilizing psychologists is not new but the application has been very limited. The NFL has employed them mainly to analyze prospective draft picks, drilling down to very personal information found on social networking web sites. Canada has implemented them at the national level through the Canada Games Sports Science program. The initiative is intended to help amateur athletes mentally prepare for national and international games events and develop their mental skill sets. Virginia Tech Institute has employed a sports psychologist since the year 2000. He is available to student athletes on a voluntary basis. Although other examples exist, the concept is still in its infancy. Hard-nosed old schoolers may scoff at the idea of a team shrink to patch up so called professional athletes. The other view illustrates that teams are dealing with more player issues of greater severity and with unprecedented public knowledge of these issues. It would be difficult to argue with the idea of considering practical, effective measures to prevent or minimize team off-field distractions when players seem to be accumulating more arrest records than breaking records on the playing field. Although it’s true that a team’s talent is usually the best indicator of success, playing as a true team and having them perform at their highest level is also important. While the day when teams are scouting the nation’s top sports psychologists for a supplemental draft may never arrive, it is a fair bet that their numbers as well as their level of involvement will increase. The stakes are high and rising. Employing one could be considered an investment. How much is it worth to accelerate a top draft pick’s career by advancing his mental adjustment to the rigors of NFL football? How much is it worth to gain additional victories in a season through enhancing team leadership capabilities and cohesiveness? How much is it worth to prevent top performers from being suspended for legal troubles? Considering it as money in the bank will make it an easier pill to swallow. Sounds good but this is pry the best solution before a game to calm the nerves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Augie said: I used to play in a tennis league with a sports psychologist. He could be counted on to double fault in tight situations late in a set. I don’t think he was at the top of his field. ? ‘Physician, heal thyself.’ * Then again, perhaps the league was really a test bed for some study he was running. You were all the equivalents of lab mice. ‘Tennis whites’ a coincidence? I think not! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 18 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Play Barkley for the first quarter? Interesting premise! ? I never should have suggested this, since the brainstorm just realized itself that the metrics sorts will be advocating platoon rotation based strictly on ‘per down’ performance. Your second string QB showed better stats on third and long? In he goes in similar situations! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 13 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Really? I would have thought he would be able to express himself in confidence to his coaches in private without fear of retribution. Oh well, guess I’m wrong, Go Bills!!! I'm sure he is. However, he doesn't strike me as the sort of personality that would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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