Steelers Browns: who should get suspended and how long?

[buffaloboyinATL]

28 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Less than 50% of people think Garrett should be suspended. 

 

Holy crap. 

At this time, 113 people voted, 111 said Garrett should be suspended.  I think you're reading it wrong.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by buffaloboyinATL

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Rob's House said:

 

If the helmet swing was an immediate response to a good hit in the nuts I'll be a bit more understanding of it.

 

Just posted a nice clear picture of the two Junk assualts and the Rudolph attack the head on the ground.  All before the helmet swing

[Roger Goodell]

The league has invested the incident that occurred at the conclusion of the Thursday Night Football game between the Steelers and Browns, and have determined the appropriate discipline for the parties involved.

 

Miles Garrett will receive a sharp strike, with an open hand, on the joint between his hand and forearm.  I trust the severity of this punishment will send a message that player safety remains the league’s top priority.

Maurkice Pouncey and  Larry Ogunjobi have been fined undisclosed amounts for their participation in the unfortunate event.

 

[row_33]

MIles Garrett will dress up and play the first quarter in two weeks at PIttsburgh

 

he is not allowed to wear a titanium cup

 

 

 

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Better Pics.  Notice the Heal of Rudolphs Cleat, not tell me again he didnt kick him in the junk.

 

 

Maybe. Still pics leave a lot to be desired. In the first one I can't tell if it's an intentional kick to the groin or inadvertantly. The second pic with the hand is far from dispositive. But like I said, if he really was responding to a good shot to the nuts I'll be more understanding.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I'm sorry if I missed this in this huge thread.

 

My guess is that the Browns will suspend Garrett for the rest of the season, no the NFL. Most teams will step in ahead of something like this. 

[Tenhigh]

I gotta tell you, if some guy grabs my junk I'm gonna hit him with whatever is in my hand. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

2 minutes ago, hemma said:

I think I'd go the rest of the season for Garrett and Pouncey.

 

Be it helmet to the head or cleat to the head, the minimum intent is serious injury.

 

 

I have no idea how Pouncey's act deserves the same punishment as Garrett's. If Pouncey gets the rest of the year, Garrett would get all of next year also. Public opinion plays a part in this and the opinions of Pouncey's actions are far different than the opinions of Garrett's actions. He should be arrested for his actions, just like what happened in the NHL when a player used a piece of his equipment as a weapon and hit another player in the head with his stick. He got 18 months probation.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Rob's House said:

Maybe. Still pics leave a lot to be desired. In the first one I can't tell if it's an intentional kick to the groin or inadvertantly. The second pic with the hand is far from dispositive. But like I said, if he really was responding to a good shot to the nuts I'll be more understanding.

 

You have the pics the video is also clear, the First you can clearly see intent in the kick on the Video.  The second contradicts the Steelers and announcers saying Rudolph was holding grabbing his helmet and that is why his arm was like that, clearly not even close

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I bring back the baseball analogy, when a pitcher beans a batter.  Do hockey players press charges when someone swings their stick at players head in frustration?  

 

A lot of you need to find a new sport to watch.  Football is violent and skirmishes happen from time to time.  Sometimes it goes overboard, but it all stays on the field.

 

I've seen more potentially deadly hits on defenseless receivers than what transpired last night.

 

You guys are ridiculous!  

 

I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's pretty telling that expert opinion seems to vary on how much Rudolph is at fault, but no one seems to exculpate Garrett.

 

Even in hockey swinging a stick at a helmetless player seems considered beyond the pale.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

I have no idea how Pouncey's act deserves the same punishment as Garrett's. If Pouncey gets the rest of the year, Garrett would get all of next year also. Public opinion plays a part in this and the opinions of Pouncey's actions are far different than the opinions of Garrett's actions. He should be arrested for his actions, just like what happened in the NHL when a player used a piece of his equipment as a weapon and hit another player in the head with his stick. He got 18 months probation.

Should Mason Rudolph then be arrested for assault Also?

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Should Mason Rudolph then be arrested for assault Also?

The larger issue is the Browns culture. Why Garrett is taking a QB down HARD with 8 seconds left on a meaningless play is the real issue given the broader context of the Browns' constant cheap shots. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/15/source-thursday-nights-game-was-like-a-bounty-game/

 

A high-level source with another team, who spoke on condition of anonymity given the sensitivity of the subject and league rules that prohibit the public criticism of other teams, had this to say about the situation: “If the league is serious, they should fine Browns $5 million and fine [coach Freddie Kitchens] $500,000.  That was like a bounty game.  There were so many unnecessary flagrant hits, and then the cherry on top.”

While Myles Garrett‘s misbehavior will receive most of the attention, other illegal hits happened. Defensive back Damarious Randall applied an illegal hit to Steelers receiver Diontae Johnson, resulting in an ejection — and images of Johnson having blood running from his ear. Steelers receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster also suffered a concussion during the game, courtesy of a pair of helmet-to-helmet hits at a time when he was in a defenseless posture. (No flag was thrown.)

The Browns have played an undisciplined brand of football all year long. During training camp, the Browns engaged in joint practice with the Colts. Cleveland coach Freddie Kitchens said after a session that featured multiple fights that “we’re not going to back down to anybody.” Kitchens grew angry at having those words read back to him after Thursday night’s game, insisting that he doesn’t coach penalties.

Maybe he doesn’t coach penalties, but it would be interesting to know what the coaching staff did to get Cleveland’s players sufficiently cranked up for Thursday night’s game to result in an ejection for an illegal hit, another illegal hit that wasn’t called, and ultimately the Myles Garrett incident. While Kitchens surely never told Garrett or anyone else to remove a player’s helmet and hit him with it, it’s Kitchens’ team. He lays down the law. He says what is and isn’t acceptable. And whatever messages he and his staff communicated prior to Thursday night’s game helped set the stage for what unfolded.

Consider this, from Jeremy Fowler of ESPN: “Myles Garrett completely lost it, connected the helmet square on Mason Rudolph’s head. And the Browns were celebrating the whole thing from the sideline.” (Emphasis added.)

Edited November 15, 2019 by dave mcbride

[peterpan]

Full season is a minimum for Garrett.  I also think number 65 from Cleveland should suspended 2 games for pushing Rudolph to the ground after he was helmet chomped. 

 

I see no reason to suspend anyone else.  Pouncy punched and kicked Garrett, but he totally deserved it.  Having punched Garrett in the helmet, brusied knuckles is punishment enough. 

[badassgixxer05]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Should Mason Rudolph then be arrested for assault Also?

Are you serious? The scrum that took place in beginning is something we have seen a million times in nfl games. What we saw at the end is something we have never seen before in sports. Lets come back to reality would you....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Maybe. Still pics leave a lot to be desired. In the first one I can't tell if it's an intentional kick to the groin or inadvertantly. The second pic with the hand is far from dispositive. But like I said, if he really was responding to a good shot to the nuts I'll be more understanding.

 

Maybe football players have a different physiology but if it really was a "good shot to the nuts" how is Garrett up there running around?

 

Not to give y'all TMI on ol' Hap's past life here, but a good shot to the nuts is pragmatically how we were taught to take people out in extreme need, to protect ourselves and colleagues.  If it didn't take 'em out, it wasn't good.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

The larger issue is the Browns culture. Why Garrett is taking a QB down HARD with 8 seconds left on a meaningless play is the real issue given the context of Browns' cheap shots. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/15/source-thursday-nights-game-was-like-a-bounty-game/

 

A high-level source with another team, who spoke on condition of anonymity given the sensitivity of the subject and league rules that prohibit the public criticism of other teams, had this to say about the situation: “If the league is serious, they should fine Browns $5 million and fine [coach Freddie Kitchens] $500,000.  That was like a bounty game.  There were so many unnecessary flagrant hits, and then the cherry on top.”

While Myles Garrett‘s misbehavior will receive most of the attention, other illegal hits happened. Defensive back Damarious Randall applied an illegal hit to Steelers receiver Diontae Johnson, resulting in an ejection — and images of Johnson having blood running from his ear. Steelers receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster also suffered a concussion during the game, courtesy of a pair of helmet-to-helmet hits at a time when he was in a defenseless posture. (No flag was thrown.)

The Browns have played an undisciplined brand of football all year long. During training camp, the Browns engaged in joint practice with the Colts. Cleveland coach Freddie Kitchens said after a session that featured multiple fights that “we’re not going to back down to anybody.” Kitchens grew angry at having those words read back to him after Thursday night’s game, insisting that he doesn’t coach penalties.

Maybe he doesn’t coach penalties, but it would be interesting to know what the coaching staff did to get Cleveland’s players sufficiently cranked up for Thursday night’s game to result in an ejection for an illegal hit, another illegal hit that wasn’t called, and ultimately the Myles Garrett incident. While Kitchens surely never told Garrett or anyone else to remove a player’s helmet and hit him with it, it’s Kitchens’ team. He lays down the law. He says what is and isn’t acceptable. And whatever messages he and his staff communicated prior to Thursday night’s game helped set the stage for what unfolded.

Consider this, from Jeremy Fowler of ESPN: “Myles Garrett completely lost it, connected the helmet square on Mason Rudolph’s head. And the Browns were celebrating the whole thing from the sideline.” (Emphasis added.)

 

Why are the Steeler's putting their QB that has been Concussed a couple weeks ago in a position to get hit when down 14 with 8 seconds left?

[row_33]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Why are the Steeler's putting their QB that has been Concussed a couple weeks ago in a position to get hit when down 14 with 8 seconds left?

 

teams aren't generally paralyzed by fear of injury

 

it's good question for 20/20 hindsight though

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

31 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

It's not # of people. It's a percentage. About 200 people have voted. 

 

53% of voters don't think Garrett deserves a suspension at all. 

Look again. Upper right corner tells you how many voted.  Currently 120 and 118 said he should be suspended.

 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, badassgixxer05 said:

Are you serious? The scrum that took place in beginning is something we have seen a million times in nfl games. What we saw at the end is something we have never seen before in sports. Lets come back to reality would you....

 

Really?  So grabbing Junk, Kicking Junk, trying to rip off Helmet is OK.  

 

See I am NOT saying what Garrett did is OK, but I am also not taking it out of the context that he was Surrounded by Steelers and getting assaulted himself.

Just now, row_33 said:

 

teams aren't generally paralyzed by fear of injury

 

it's good question for 20/20 hindsight though

 

Then they shouldnt be all butt hurt about Mason Rudolph being HIT then should they

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Really?  So grabbing Junk, Kicking Junk, trying to rip off Helmet is OK.  

 

See I am NOT saying what Garrett did is OK, but I am also not taking it out of the context that he was Surrounded by Steelers and getting assaulted himself.

 

None of those things are OK and no one is saying so.  

 

Garrett elevated it to another level.

 

Unless the NFL wants to see that level spread, they have got to clamp down hard.

 

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Why are the Steeler's putting their QB that has been Concussed a couple weeks ago in a position to get hit when down 14 with 8 seconds left?

 

That's an entirely different question and not relevant to the question of what Garrett did and what punishment it merits.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Should Mason Rudolph then be arrested for assault Also?

A.)Much harder to prove. The pictures you posted prove nothing.

B.) Grabbing someone's nuts in a pile when there's a fumble has happened since the start of the NFL, players have talked about it forever. It's nothing new. Picking someone up off the ground by their facemask, ripping off their helmet and then striking them in the head with their helmet has never been done and my guess is after the long suspension is handed down, it will never happen again. The game footage on the other hand proves everything in an assault trial against Garrett. Don't even need to call a witness.

C.) The first nut shot(If that's what it was) would be because Garrett was lifting him off the ground by his facemask, what would you do...sit there and do nothing?

 

[msw2112]

Rudolph should be suspended 1-2 games for his attempts to hit Garrett in the balls and to rip his helmet off.  No place for that in the game.

 

Pouncey and Ogunjobi should be suspended 3-4 games for kicking and punching Garrett after the helmet swing.

 

Garrett should be suspended, at a minimum, the remainder of this season and at a maximum, a full year (16 games) for the helmet rip and swing.  From what I have heard and read, Garrett is not a cheap shot artist like Burfict and doesn't have a history of bad behavior.  He's a decent guy.  He just lost his cool (apparently because Rudolph went for his nuts - twice) and committed a terrible infraction.  I disagree with those who say he should be banned for life.  If he were suspended for 8-16 games and came back and did something similar again then yes, a lifetime ban would be appropriate.

 

The bigger picture is that sometimes it just makes sense to run out the clock.  Take a knee, or hand it off to your backup RB and get off the field.  Dropping back to pass on 4th and 29 in the shadow of your own goal line with less than 10 seconds left and down 2 scores just isn't necessary.  People get hurt and tempers can flare (as they did last night).  I have't read all 18 pages of this post, but from what I have seen and read elsewhere, not much has been said about this angle.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

None of those things are OK and no one is saying so.  

 

Garrett elevated it to another level.

 

Unless the NFL wants to see that level spread, they have got to clamp down hard.

 

 

That's an entirely different question and not relevant to the question of what Garrett did and what punishment it merits.

 

I get it.  Garrett will get suspended, however Rudolph isnt clean here like others want to make it out

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

I get it.  Garrett will get suspended, however Rudolph isnt clean here like others want to make it out

 

I don't see anyone claiming Rudolph is "clean". 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

A.)Much harder to prove. The pictures you posted prove nothing.

B.) Grabbing someone's nuts in a pile when there's a fumble has happened since the start of the NFL, players have talked about it forever. It's nothing new. Picking someone up off the ground by their facemask, ripping off their helmet and then striking them in the head with their helmet has never been done and my guess is after the long suspension is handed down, it will never happen again. The game footage on the other hand proves everything in an assault trial against Garrett. Don't even need to call a witness.

C.) The first nut shot(If that's what it was) would be because Garrett was lifting him off the ground by his facemask, what would you do...sit there and do nothing?

 

 

Who went after the Helmet initially?  Just checking

[yungmack]

Hitting Rudolph in the head with his own helmet is beyond even NHL brawls. That's assault and battery. He should be arrested, indicted and tried in the criminal court.

[row_33]

Just now, yungmack said:

Hitting Rudolph in the head with his own helmet is beyond even NHL brawls. That's assault and battery. He should be arrested, indicted and tried in the criminal court.

 

show'd the QB there....  that settles it...

 

[IDBillzFan]

13 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Maybe. Still pics leave a lot to be desired. In the first one I can't tell if it's an intentional kick to the groin or inadvertantly. The second pic with the hand is far from dispositive. But like I said, if he really was responding to a good shot to the nuts I'll be more understanding.

 

And again, I'm not sure why people are ignoring what set Rudolph off in the first place.

 

Garrett ragdolls him to the ground on the initial hit and you see Rudolph's head hit the ground BECAUSE of that tackle...long after Rudolph got rid of the ball. 

 

But hey...it's just like baseball, so does it really matter what Garrett did?

 

 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

And again, I'm not sure why people are ignoring what set Rudolph off in the first place.

 

Garrett ragdolls him to the ground on the initial hit and you see Rudolph's head hit the ground BECAUSE of that tackle...long after Rudolph got rid of the ball. 

 

But hey...it's just like baseball, so does it really matter what Garrett did?

 

 

 

Happens every week  So not point to me other QBs reactions like the Ball Grabber

[ROCBillsBeliever]

11 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

This was one of the most awful things I have saw on a field.  He seriously could have killed him

 

I was in the market for a lumberjack to take down some hardwoods on my property, but you, sir, seem to have a saw on the field already. What's your hourly rate? 

 

???

[Tenhigh]

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Really?  So grabbing Junk, Kicking Junk, trying to rip off Helmet is OK.  

 

See I am NOT saying what Garrett did is OK, but I am also not taking it out of the context that he was Surrounded by Steelers and getting assaulted himself.

Then they shouldnt be all butt hurt about Mason Rudolph being HIT then should they

For once I agree with you, but I HATE how you deliver the message. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

And again, I'm not sure why people are ignoring what set Rudolph off in the first place.

 

Garrett ragdolls him to the ground on the initial hit and you see Rudolph's head hit the ground BECAUSE of that tackle...long after Rudolph got rid of the ball. 

 

But hey...it's just like baseball, so does it really matter what Garrett did?

 

 

Really??  HMMM That ISNT LATE

[Nelius]

48 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

And now this will happen more and more because guess what there is assault in EVERY football game.  If this thing does get filed

 

 

It will happen more often if an assault charge gets filed? Like players will assault each other more often out of protest? Take a break, man, you're clogging the thread.

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Why are the Steeler's putting their QB that has been Concussed a couple weeks ago in a position to get hit when down 14 with 8 seconds left?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/15/nfl-is-sanctioned-violence-myles-garrett-still-violated-its-codes/

 

Please, please, don't engage in whataboutism. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Nelius said:

 

It will happen more often if an assault charge gets filed? Like players will assault each other more often out of protest? Take a break, man, you're clogging the thread.

More assault charges will be filed if the Steelers actually file these.  that is what I am saying

Just now, dave mcbride said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/15/nfl-is-sanctioned-violence-myles-garrett-still-violated-its-codes/

 

Please, please, don't engage in whataboutism. 

I am not, but people want to talk about the HIT like is was something egregious, IT wasnt  Steelers dont want that to happen DONT put your QB in that position when down by 14 with 8 seconds left

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Who went after the Helmet initially?  Just checking

And? If you walk by and give me a shove and then I knock you down, pick you up by your head and hit you in the head with a baseball bat are people going to stand around going, well he did push him?

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

More assault charges will be filed if the Steelers actually file these.  that is what I am saying

I am not, but people want to talk about the HIT like is was something egregious, IT wasnt  Steelers dont want that to happen DONT put your QB in that position when down by 14 with 8 seconds left

You and I both know that pretty much every team in the league runs little dump offs at the end of out-of-hand games. Their occurrence is so frequent as to be banal. Please don't engage in whataboutism. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Yeah, you're right, typical football, happens every week. ?

 

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous take. Hitting an unprotected player over the head with a helmet is NOT part of football.  I am all for violence within the confines of the rules, but this is way outside of those lines.

I agree, he should be suspended.

[Rob's House]

8 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

And again, I'm not sure why people are ignoring what set Rudolph off in the first place.

 

Garrett ragdolls him to the ground on the initial hit and you see Rudolph's head hit the ground BECAUSE of that tackle...long after Rudolph got rid of the ball. 

 

But hey...it's just like baseball, so does it really matter what Garrett did?

 

 

 

That's a great point. 

 

I know the law doesn't necessarily apply on the football field like it does in reality, but you can't provoke an attack and then claim self-defense.

[buffaloboyinATL]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Really??  HMMM That ISNT LATE

Not true. The HIT wasn't late but he threw him to the ground well after the play was over. That is almost always called as roughing the passer these days.