The Dean Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Foster is the next one that you wonder about. Duke didn’t just go from PS to roster. He got the second most targets of the WRs. He leapt over McKenzie, Foster and Roberts albeit Foster is hurt. Still open question whether Foster has stuck with the process or if he is the next target to be upgraded. Good question re: Foster. From what I understand he hasn't been healthy yet this season, but perhaps that's just smoke (not that Smoke). Even though he isn't a complete WR, Josh and he did seem to establish a connection last year. Hard to believe he fell that dramatically if he is healthy, and working to get better. But anything is possible, I guess. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 hours ago, eball said: You must be pissed a lot. Draft picks are a crap shoot -- even first rounders. McD/Beane have done an excellent job of drafting since arriving in Buffalo. No team hits on all picks. Zay Jones isn't "awful" -- he just didn't develop into the reliable option they envisioned. Getting a 5th back after two and a half seasons isn't I think there is a chance Jones is out of the league by the start of next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: I think there is a chance Jones is out of the league by the start of next season. If that's true I think there's more to it than just his play (i.e., mental). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, eball said: If that's true I think there's more to it than just his play (i.e., mental). No I think just based on play. I think the Raiders can use him now, their depth is thin, but they will want to upgrade in the offseason so unless Zay can put something more impressive on tape he will be on the bubble again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, The Dean said: Well you were wrong about your called shot. You knew you might be. So just admit you were wrong about that. That's all I'm saying. Some of the content in your post was quite good (though nothing that revelatory). Like I said, a little humble/modest post about how you had so much right, but were WRONG with your prediction might have served you better. Just sayin. Like the guy who calls nothing but net in a game of HORSE and then after he banks it in he expects you to know he meant just make it. "Look bro. Obviously that shot still counts cus it went in." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Without reading 18 pages, are the posters like @JoPar_v2 @LSHMEAB & @LOVEMESOMEBILLS hiding right now or are they owning up to Zay not being the "established NFL WR" some on here believe he was? I can't believe we got a 5th for him! Even if it's for 2021. Great job Beane! Gruden also traded a 5th for AJ Mccarron who he then cut. Not sure he values those later picks like the Bills do. Edited October 8, 2019 by YoloinOhio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, JMF2006 said: He can't even catch the ball when he is wide open :( Perhaps, but he sure as f*** needs to try to keep the defensive back from making the interception. Lousy decision making on Jones’ part. Pretend the defender is a sheet of PPG’s finest shatter resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Zay is a west coast wr. Imo he will do well in Oak. Carr has one of the lowest air yards. Zay does his best work over the middle/intermediate. Regardless, no matter what happens in Oak the fit isnt there with Buffalo. When he was drafted Buffalo was running a West Coast offense so his skill set matched the offense. Having a big body wr like Williams is a nice change up. The Whaley term, when hes covered hes open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, eball said: If that's true I think there's more to it than just his play (i.e., mental). 26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No I think just based on play. I think the Raiders can use him now, their depth is thin, but they will want to upgrade in the offseason so unless Zay can put something more impressive on tape he will be on the bubble again. There must be some correlation from his head to his play. The guy dropped six out of 164 passes his last year of college. Something has changed. Unless eball means mental in, like, an AB way. He was never going to be a top guy, but he was supposed to be a guy that could find the hole in a zone and move the chains, make contested catches, etc. His scouting profiles all said "strong hands catcher," "physical," "can get YAC," "large catch radius" and so on. We haven't seen any of that. His first two years he wasn't surrounded with good talent, sure, but when given the opportunity he still hasn't proven himself trustworthy at his main job which is to catch the ball. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFreeman22 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 16 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: A 5th for Zay is pretty good but in retrospect, the 5th is a terrible return on a player that the team traded up to get, bypassing JuJu Shuster Smith. If McDermott made that call then damn....terrible waste of a draft pick you can say that about almost any pick on most team every year, if you always play the woulda, coulda should of game, then you're never, ever going to be happy. I get it, you can look back at every draft and say, man,they should have took so and so. go back in just bills history, you win some, you lose some, Thurman was the 40th pick! and they didn't give up anything to sign duke and if he turns out to be better than zay, who cares about a wasted pick, they're still a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think there is a chance Jones is out of the league by the start of next season. 41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No I think just based on play. I think the Raiders can use him now, their depth is thin, but they will want to upgrade in the offseason so unless Zay can put something more impressive on tape he will be on the bubble again. Yeah I totally agree. I honestly think he doesn't have the mental toughness to sustain a long career in the NFL. If he cant change that, he won't be getting many more chances. Hopefully the change of scenery helps Zay in that department. Maybe the drop as a rookie in week 2 got in his head just enough to linger which led to some other drops and mental lapses that just steam rolled into such a bad rookie season. Which then was followed by the embarrassing off field incident...and that all just set a tone of him just being in his head so much worried about messing up again that it just kept impacting his game day performances. End of day, his best chance at an NFL is a change of scenery to see if he can get that part of his game right. If not, I think he will be looking at being buried on a roster or like you said, out of the league soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 16 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: A 5th for Zay is pretty good but in retrospect, the 5th is a terrible return on a player that the team traded up to get, bypassing JuJu Shuster Smith. If McDermott made that call then damn....terrible waste of a draft pick Sure. But take comfort in this, McDermott is the kind of guy that will file away the This event and all supporting details. And then in the off-season go back and re-examine how this happened and how to draft better in the future. What things they saw right, what they saw wrong. Input that they should have considered more and what they should have considered less. I’m positive they will try to understand how they missed on a second rounder and make real effort to improve the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Gruden also traded a 5th for AJ Mccarron who he then cut. Not sure he values those later picks like the Bills do. “AJ wasn’t who we thought he was.” That’s as damning a statement by a GM about a player as I’ve ever heard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, Mat68 said: Zay is a west coast wr. He is now! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reader Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, Big C said: There must be some correlation from his head to his play. The guy dropped six out of 164 passes his last year of college. Something has changed. Unless eball means mental in, like, an AB way. He was never going to be a top guy, but he was supposed to be a guy that could find the hole in a zone and move the chains, make contested catches, etc. His scouting profiles all said "strong hands catcher," "physical," "can get YAC," "large catch radius" and so on. We haven't seen any of that. His first two years he wasn't surrounded with good talent, sure, but when given the opportunity he still hasn't proven himself trustworthy at his main job which is to catch the ball. I think this is possibly what is most frustrating with Zay and other players like him. The potential is there and it has been seen previously. Yet, despite this it has yet to translate. I hope it works out for Zay, he seems like he has been nothing short of a great teammate and likeable kid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 well, at least if the Bills thought they missed on a pick, they got something for him other than cutting him. I think he will do well in Oakland. He's not bad. He's a serviceable WR2 in a different offensive scheme. He had 7 TD's last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, K-9 said: “AJ wasn’t who we thought he was.” That’s as damning a statement by a GM about a player as I’ve ever heard. More damning against the GM than the player in question. What were you doing, reading the back of McCaron’s football cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Question: Why are people still complaining about missing on Zay over some other prospects that were drafted after? In not only the history of the NFL, but in the history of ALL sports, no GM has even been 100% on their picks. No GM has hit on all their first and 2nd round picks. No GM is even close to being 100%. In the draft we missed on Zay, we also landed Tre, Dawkins, and Milano. To land 3 critical starters playing at high levels is a massive homerun for any GM. The last 2 years since then they have also had pretty excellent drafts too. Yet all I see is people whining about missing on Zay using convenient things they know today that they didnt know then. There were no threads where people were screaming for guys like Kupp, Godwin, Kamara, etc. Most posters complaining now didnt even know who some of those guys were on draft night. Sure there were a few that liked a couple of those people, but on draft night the only other WR people were really talking about was JuJu and even he didn't have an overwhelming amount of supporters. End of the day, our regime has done a great job in the draft, and our team is literally 4-1 right now because of how well they have drafted. In fact, someone could make an argument that in the 2 years Beane has been running our draft, we have overall drafted better than any other team in the league and at the very least top 3. People need to let it go about Zay being a whiff...it happens to every single GM in history. Bill Walsh trade up for JJ Stokes calling him the next Jerry Rice. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Question: Why are people still complaining about missing on Zay over some other prospects that were drafted after? In not only the history of the NFL, but in the history of ALL sports, no GM has even been 100% on their picks. No GM has hit on all their first and 2nd round picks. No GM is even close to being 100%. In the draft we missed on Zay, we also landed Tre, Dawkins, and Milano. To land 3 critical starters playing at high levels is a massive homerun for any GM. The last 2 years since then they have also had pretty excellent drafts too. Yet all I see is people whining about missing on Zay using convenient things they know today that they didnt know then. There were no threads where people were screaming for guys like Kupp, Godwin, Kamara, etc. Most posters complaining now didnt even know who some of those guys were on draft night. Sure there were a few that liked a couple of those people, but on draft night the only other WR people were really talking about was JuJu and even he didn't have an overwhelming amount of supporters. End of the day, our regime has done a great job in the draft, and our team is literally 4-1 right now because of how well they have drafted. In fact, someone could make an argument that in the 2 years Beane has been running our draft, we have overall drafted better than any other team in the league and at the very least top 3. People need to let it go about Zay being a whiff...it happens to every single GM in history. Bill Walsh trade up for JJ Stokes calling him the next Jerry Rice. I forgot which GM it was (retired now) but he said in a radio interview that if you find 3 starters in a draft then you had a successful draft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: More damning against the GM than the player in question. What were you doing, reading the back of McCaron’s football cards? Nope. Beane wasn’t referring to his playing ability, he was referring to McCarron’s phoniness as a team first kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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