Florio: Texans "New Look No GM" Grades an "F"

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

plenty of posts here about Clowney, Texans, Fins and Da Fuhrer O'Brien....Florio says "F".......welcome back Gaines from that joint.....

 

Texans “flatter” management structure falls flat on its face

Posted by Mike Florio on September 1, 2019, 12:23 PM EDT

 

Saturday’s whirlwind of transactions provided the first real test for Houston’s new-look, no-G.M. front office. The grade for the “flatter” management structure: A big, fat F.

 

Through not just one but two disastrous trades, the Texans not only botched their divorce from Jadeveon Clowney but also authored a mini-Herschel Walker fiasco that mortgages the future and complicates the process of hiring any G.M. who has real options in 2020.

 

The blame lands nowhere but on the desk of Cal McNair, who is now running the franchise following the passing of team founder of his father, Bob McNair. Cal McNair signed off on that clumsy plan to fire G.M. Brian Gaine and lure Nick Caserio from the Patriots, as if taking from the Patriots an employee they are intent on keeping ever works. Along the way, the Texans frustrating the Fritz Pollard Alliance by interviewing a pair of minority G.M. candidates for the job (Martin Mayhew and Ray Farmer) before deciding not to hire anyone.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/01/texans-flatter-management-structure-falls-flat-on-its-face/

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[klos63]

The Dolphins trade could be historically awful real soon.

[njbuff]

Right now it all looks really bad for Houston, but if by some miracle they wind up winning the SB within the next two years............

 

they will have the last laugh.

[BananaSquad]

They have a young franchise QB that’s very legit and not still proving himself.. trying to improve the team Oline and more weapons for him and just giving up draft picks is a huge win for me imo. 

1 minute ago, njbuff said:

Right now it all looks really bad for Houston, but if by some miracle they wind up winning the SB within the next two years............

 

they will have the last laugh.

How? Like they aren’t looking for a QB at all for a very long time. Improving the that Oline for Watson is a massive win imo. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Don't forget about the Ditka trade in New Orleans... that one was for Ricky Williams of all players!!! I think that was the worst of all time.

Edited September 1, 2019 by EasternOHBillsFan

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, BananaSquad said:

They have a young franchise QB that’s very legit and not still proving himself.. trying to improve the team Oline and more weapons for him and just giving up draft picks is a huge win for me imo. 

How? Like they aren’t looking for a QB at all for a very long time. Improving the that Oline for Watson is a massive win imo. 

 

Let’s see how it plays out.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Articale is spot on.

 

Bob McNair was a weak owner, way too loyal to "nice huys" and coaches, kept David Carr waaayyy too long because he was a nice family man and devout Chritian, Carr was such a good family man he was usually one of the last in and first out the door everyday.

 

To make matters worse, the Texans select a project LT in rd #1 from Alabama State.  And THEN turn around 4 months later and mortgage their future for a medicore run om the mill NFL starting LT in Tunsil.  Beyond bizarre,

 

Cal McNair was very luck with one investment, Cogen, made a furtoune flipped it for too much money to greedy Enron.  As lucky as he was and rich , wasn't too smart.  Cal on the other hand has never accomplished much of anything without Daddy's help.

 

Going to be a very dysfunctional franchise.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

18 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Don't forget about the Ditka trade in New Orleans... that one was for Ricky Williams of all players!!! I think that was the worst of all time.

 

 

...honorable mention to the Vikes for Herschel.......

[Doc Brown]

Clowney trade was a disaster as they let an all pro at a premium position leave in his prime and getting very little in return for what they gave up (a 3rd round pick, a former 1st round bust, and a bubble LB/DE).  They should've made up their mind on Clowney long ago when there were more teams in the market as they continued to lose leverage.

 

The only way the Tunsil trade works out is if he develops into a consistent elite player for at least the length of his contract and they compete for the Super Bowl.  Sills contributing at the same time would make the deal look like a good one in hindsight (I doubt it though).  Giving up more for Tunsil than Mack is crazy to me and BOB only chance at his job is winning now.

[Doc]

That's some major league analysis there, Mikey.

[Chicken Boo]

I'm in the minority in thinking the Miami trade was a good trade for Houston.  They gave up Clowney for peanuts, however.

 

Houston will be picking in the mid 20s.  2 first for a 25 year old, top 10 tackle in the league?  Sign me up.  They were in desperate need of speed and also acquired Stills to help fill that role.  A great compliment to Hopkins.

[Doc]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

I'm in the minority in thinking the Miami trade was a good trade for Houston.  They gave up Clowney for peanuts, however.

 

Houston will be picking in the mid 20s.  2 first for a 25 year old, top 10 tackle in the league?  Sign me up.  They were in desperate need of speed and also acquired Stills to help fill that role.  A great compliment to Hopkins.

 

The vast minority.  The only other people who think it was a good trade work for the Texans.

[BillsVet]

59 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Let’s see how it plays out.

 

O'Brien's Belichick impression as combined GM and HC may not work out.  Still, with Luck gone, that division is wide-open and BOB probably figures he's got a window to go for the SB.  

 

It's a big gamble to deal first round picks, but given that Watson was hit as much as he was, QB protection was an impediment to the team moving beyond 9-7.  I also like that the team values WR and providing their young QB with more options in the passing game.  

 

There's more strategy behind these moves than what appears on the surface.  

[Chicken Boo]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The vast minority.  The only other people who think it was a good trade work for the Texans.

 

I'm waiting for someone to explain how the trade doesn't work for them?  They desperately needed o-line help, they got it.  Kenny Stills is arguably better than any WR we currently have on the roster.

[Pete]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/texans-offensive-line-shows-signs-of-struggle/ar-AAGnEac

 Watson and DeAndre are the franchise.  It behooves the Texans to protect Watson(62 sacks last year).  Tunsil is one of the top LT in the business.  As the article link demonstrates, their projected starting LT gave up 2 sacks and some pressures.  

As I see it, Seattle went all in on D with Clowney, replacing Frank Clark.  And Houston went all in on offense.  The Texans used a 2019 1st on OT Tytus Howard and a 3rd OT Max Sharping.  Perhaps one can start RT, and the other can slide inside.  It allows much flexibility to try different combinations(like the Bills), and see what works. 

Sure they probably overpaid.  But sometimes just like you have to overpay for a QB, you have to overpay for a LT.  Protect Watson would be #1 priority if I were Texans GM

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BananaSquad said:

They have a young franchise QB that’s very legit and not still proving himself.. trying to improve the team Oline and more weapons for him and just giving up draft picks is a huge win for me imo. 

How? Like they aren’t looking for a QB at all for a very long time. Improving the that Oline for Watson is a massive win imo. 

 

 

It's a massive error.  2 first round picks and a second for an LT (who will need to be resigned for far too much money) and a #2 WR (on a team loaded with receivers)??

 

The dumbest trade possible.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

I'm waiting for someone to explain how the trade doesn't work for them?  They desperately needed o-line help, they got it.  Kenny Stills is arguably better than any WR we currently have on the roster.

 

They gave up way too much.  And they need more than just a LT, especially one who is rated around 11th or 12th best.

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'm waiting for someone to explain how the trade doesn't work for them?  They desperately needed o-line help, they got it.  Kenny Stills is arguably better than any WR we currently have on the roster.

 

Pointless comparison.  

 

Houston has a load of guys who can catch the ball.

 

[Chicken Boo]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They gave up way too much.  And they need more than just a LT, especially one who is rated around 11th or 12th best.

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

 

LOL why do you keep justifying this trade by comparing these traded players to Bills players?  It's bizarre.

 

Anyway, Tunsil gets them no closer to the SB.  They got panted by the COLTS in the WC last season.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Chicken Boo]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Pointless comparison.  

 

Houston has a load of guys who can catch the ball.

 

 

How many of them can take the top off a defense like Stills can?  

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

You make some decent points but a lot of this is self inflicted.  They gave up what teams give up for a franchise qb for a guy who has never been an all pro.  

 

If Watson (who I love but is smaller) or Watt (gets hurt),  they could be really bad.  It’s great to have a LT but not at that price.  Fins made an amazing trade.  And this is the problem with giving a coach too much power.  O’Brien doesn’t care if the Texans suck in a few years but he will have been fired. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

How many of them can take the top off a defense like Stills can?  

 

Sills is a 50 or fewer catch per season WR.   Plenty of them in the league. 

[Chicken Boo]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

LOL why do you keep justifying this trade by comparing these traded players to Bills players?  It's bizarre.

 

Anyway, Tunsil gets them no closer to the SB.  

 

I'm pointing out that these trades are for players that are better than what the Bills currently have.  That means something.  Who cares about draft picks when you're acquiring young talent that can help your team now!

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Sills is a 50 or fewer catch per season WR.   Plenty of them in the league. 

 

While that may be, he's in a much better position to produce than he has been since his Saints days.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'm pointing out that these trades are for players that are better than what the Bills currently have.  That means something.  Who cares about draft picks when you're acquiring young talent that can help your team now!

 

 

No, it means absolutely nothing in this discussion.  

 

Who cares about draft picks?   Uhh...Ok.  Never mind.  

 

This was a good  trade for Houston because Tunsil is better than Dawkins and Stills is better than any WR on the Bills.

 

Did I say that right?

 

Yikes....

[Chicken Boo]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No, it means absolutely nothing in this discussion.  

 

Who cares about draft picks?   Uhh...Ok.  Never mind.  

 

This was a good  trade for Houston because Tunsil is better than Dawkins and Stills is better than any WR on the Bills.

 

Did I say that right?

 

Yikes....

 

The folks who are shitting on this trade are acting like the Texans traded for bums.  That's my point.  

 

And yes, when you're in "win now" mode, late round draft picks aren't as valuable.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The folks who are shitting on this trade are acting like the Texans traded for bums.  That's my point.  

 

And yes, when you're in "win now" mode, late round draft picks aren't as valuable.

 

 

No one is acting like that, actually.

 

Those who are mocking the trade are pointing out the paying 2 firsts and a second for an LT (without signing him to a long term contract?) and a second or 3rd option WR was way too much.

[BananaSquad]

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You make some decent points but a lot of this is self inflicted.  They gave up what teams give up for a franchise qb for a guy who has never been an all pro.  

 

If Watson (who I love but is smaller) or Watt (gets hurt),  they could be really bad.  It’s great to have a LT but not at that price.  Fins made an amazing trade.  And this is the problem with giving a coach too much power.  O’Brien doesn’t care if the Texans suck in a few years but he will have been fired. 

Watson and small? Oh my. 

[BarleyNY]

48 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

 

The two trades were terrible.  Honestly, the whole Clowney give away is literally the worst NFL trade I can think of.  The others in the running would all be ones where teams traded players and/or picks for a draft pick and then blew that pick.

 

The Miami trade is really bad, but it isn’t as bad as the Seattle trade.  This was a huge overpay by Houston - two firsts and a second  - for a very good, young LT and a middling WR.  (I know there are also some later round picks and JAGs involved, but I’m considering them a wash.)

 

These are moves made by a desperate HC who is trying to win now at all costs.  BoB is screwing that franchise long term to try to save his job.  A decent owner wouldn’t have allowed this to happen.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

SB contender ?! I just don't see it at all. They're below average on D, offense isn't great enough to carry them to a SB . 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

The folks who are shitting on this trade are acting like the Texans traded for bums.  That's my point.  

 

And yes, when you're in "win now" mode, late round draft picks aren't as valuable.

 

They're not bums but they're not worth near what they gave up.  A real GM wouldn't have offered more than a 1st and maybe a 4th for them.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

SB contender ?! I just don't see it at all. They're below average on D, offense isn't great enough to carry them to a SB . 

 

I’d wager that the Miami trade has a lot to do with Luck’s retirement.  Indy was definitely the favorite to win that division prior to that.  Now it’s the Texicans to lose unless I’m grossly underestimating what Foles can do in Jax or Tanny can do in Ten.

 

Edited to add: None of that changes how bad of a trade it was from a value standpoint.  

Edited September 1, 2019 by BarleyNY

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Pointless comparison.  

 

Houston has a load of guys who can catch the ball.

 

 

Who cannot stay healthy. Fantasy football players know this VERY well... Fuller is a walking injury like Roscoe Parrish and Coutee also got injured and also inconsistent.

 

They need consistency, but the price for that is WAAAAAAAAY too damn high. Insane.

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The two trades were terrible.  Honestly, the whole Clowney give away is literally the worst NFL trade I can think of. 

 

I believe they could have gotten more for Clowney, but Clowney isn't that good.  People are still looking at him as this dynamite prospect, when in reality he's a 5 year vet who has never posted double digit sacks.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

They're not bums but they're not worth near what they gave up.  A real GM wouldn't have offered more than a 1st and maybe a 4th for them.

 

You have to take into account that these are not top 10 picks.  

[Buffalophil1948]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Clowney trade was a disaster as they let an all pro at a premium position leave in his prime and getting very little in return for what they gave up (a 3rd round pick, a former 1st round bust, and a bubble LB/DE).  They should've made up their mind on Clowney long ago when there were more teams in the market as they continued to lose leverage.

 

The only way the Tunsil trade works out is if he develops into a consistent elite player for at least the length of his contract and they compete for the Super Bowl.  Sills contributing at the same time would make the deal look like a good one in hindsight (I doubt it though).  Giving up more for Tunsil than Mack is crazy to me and BOB only chance at his job is winning now.

I agree whole heartedly, plus the didn't work out a contact right away. Tunsil could only be there 1 yr.

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I believe they could have gotten more for Clowney, but Clowney isn't that good.  People are still looking at him as this dynamite prospect, when in reality he's a 5 year vet who has never posted double digit sacks.

 

You have to take into account that these are not top 10 picks.  

 

I disagree.  You are selling Clowney short.  He has been borderline elite.  In the last 3 seasons Aaron Donald has the most tackles for loss in the NFL.  Second on that it’s is Clowney.  And he did that primarily as a 3-4 OLB.  And they got next to nothing for him. A (probably) late 3rd, a bust and a JAG.  That is in no way defensible. Heck, they could’ve gotten a third round comp pick just for letting him walk.

 

Now to the Miami trade.  Even considering that those picks are LIKELY TO BE in the 20s, it’s still a poor trade value-wise for the talent received.  2 firsts and a second for a very good, young LT and a middling WR is not great return.  Also consider this: What if Watson gets hurt again?  How many wins will AJ McCarron get them?  Those picks can't going to be a whole lot worse than the 20s, but there’s a chance that they’ll be a lot better. 

[Bray Wyatt]

Texans already have will fuller and keke coutee to compliment deandre, the stills part of the trade makes little sense to me

[Chicken Boo]

13 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I disagree.  You are selling Clowney short.  He has been borderline elite.  In the last 3 seasons Aaron Donald has the most tackles for loss in the NFL.  Second on that it’s is Clowney.  And he did that primarily as a 3-4 OLB.  And they got next to nothing for him. A (probably) late 3rd, a bust and a JAG.  That is in no way defensible. Heck, they could’ve gotten a third round comp pick just for letting him walk.

 

Now to the Miami trade.  Even considering that those picks are LIKELY TO BE in the 20s, it’s still a poor trade value-wise for the talent received.  2 firsts and a second for a very good, young LT and a middling WR is not great return.  Also consider this: What if Watson gets hurt again?  How many wins will AJ McCarron get them?  Those picks can't going to be a whole lot worse than the 20s, but there’s a chance that they’ll be a lot better. 

 

They gave up a lot.  No doubting that, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  Where would they be without Tunsil?

[C.Biscuit97]

11 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

Texans already have will fuller and keke coutee to compliment deandre, the stills part of the trade makes little sense to me

Fuller is made of glass and Stills is way better than Coutee.  I think Stills was a throw in anyways but he is a solid player. 

9 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up a lot.  No doubting that, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  Where would they be without Tunsil?

Weren’t they 11-5 last year?

[BarleyNY]

10 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up a lot.  No doubting that, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  Where would they be without Tunsil?

 

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Weren’t they 11-5 last year?

 

So I guess they’d be playing with the same LT that they had when they went 11-5.  And we haven’t even gotten into the fact that, if it was indeed such a big problem, why they didn’t do anything about it before that panic move.