Florio: Texans "New Look No GM" Grades an "F"

[Chicken Boo]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Pointless comparison.  

 

Houston has a load of guys who can catch the ball.

 

 

How many of them can take the top off a defense like Stills can?  

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

You make some decent points but a lot of this is self inflicted.  They gave up what teams give up for a franchise qb for a guy who has never been an all pro.  

 

If Watson (who I love but is smaller) or Watt (gets hurt),  they could be really bad.  It’s great to have a LT but not at that price.  Fins made an amazing trade.  And this is the problem with giving a coach too much power.  O’Brien doesn’t care if the Texans suck in a few years but he will have been fired. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

How many of them can take the top off a defense like Stills can?  

 

Sills is a 50 or fewer catch per season WR.   Plenty of them in the league. 

[Chicken Boo]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

LOL why do you keep justifying this trade by comparing these traded players to Bills players?  It's bizarre.

 

Anyway, Tunsil gets them no closer to the SB.  

 

I'm pointing out that these trades are for players that are better than what the Bills currently have.  That means something.  Who cares about draft picks when you're acquiring young talent that can help your team now!

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Sills is a 50 or fewer catch per season WR.   Plenty of them in the league. 

 

While that may be, he's in a much better position to produce than he has been since his Saints days.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'm pointing out that these trades are for players that are better than what the Bills currently have.  That means something.  Who cares about draft picks when you're acquiring young talent that can help your team now!

 

 

No, it means absolutely nothing in this discussion.  

 

Who cares about draft picks?   Uhh...Ok.  Never mind.  

 

This was a good  trade for Houston because Tunsil is better than Dawkins and Stills is better than any WR on the Bills.

 

Did I say that right?

 

Yikes....

[Chicken Boo]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No, it means absolutely nothing in this discussion.  

 

Who cares about draft picks?   Uhh...Ok.  Never mind.  

 

This was a good  trade for Houston because Tunsil is better than Dawkins and Stills is better than any WR on the Bills.

 

Did I say that right?

 

Yikes....

 

The folks who are shitting on this trade are acting like the Texans traded for bums.  That's my point.  

 

And yes, when you're in "win now" mode, late round draft picks aren't as valuable.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The folks who are shitting on this trade are acting like the Texans traded for bums.  That's my point.  

 

And yes, when you're in "win now" mode, late round draft picks aren't as valuable.

 

 

No one is acting like that, actually.

 

Those who are mocking the trade are pointing out the paying 2 firsts and a second for an LT (without signing him to a long term contract?) and a second or 3rd option WR was way too much.

[BananaSquad]

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You make some decent points but a lot of this is self inflicted.  They gave up what teams give up for a franchise qb for a guy who has never been an all pro.  

 

If Watson (who I love but is smaller) or Watt (gets hurt),  they could be really bad.  It’s great to have a LT but not at that price.  Fins made an amazing trade.  And this is the problem with giving a coach too much power.  O’Brien doesn’t care if the Texans suck in a few years but he will have been fired. 

Watson and small? Oh my. 

[BarleyNY]

48 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

 

The two trades were terrible.  Honestly, the whole Clowney give away is literally the worst NFL trade I can think of.  The others in the running would all be ones where teams traded players and/or picks for a draft pick and then blew that pick.

 

The Miami trade is really bad, but it isn’t as bad as the Seattle trade.  This was a huge overpay by Houston - two firsts and a second  - for a very good, young LT and a middling WR.  (I know there are also some later round picks and JAGs involved, but I’m considering them a wash.)

 

These are moves made by a desperate HC who is trying to win now at all costs.  BoB is screwing that franchise long term to try to save his job.  A decent owner wouldn’t have allowed this to happen.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up 2 picks in the 25-32 range and a late 2nd rounder for young developing left tackle who grades out better than Dion Dawkins and a speedy WR, that I would guess, they intend to use.

 

Houston is a Super Bowl contender.  They're trying to win now.  They don't have time to hang their hopes on draft picks that might pan out.

SB contender ?! I just don't see it at all. They're below average on D, offense isn't great enough to carry them to a SB . 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

The folks who are shitting on this trade are acting like the Texans traded for bums.  That's my point.  

 

And yes, when you're in "win now" mode, late round draft picks aren't as valuable.

 

They're not bums but they're not worth near what they gave up.  A real GM wouldn't have offered more than a 1st and maybe a 4th for them.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

SB contender ?! I just don't see it at all. They're below average on D, offense isn't great enough to carry them to a SB . 

 

I’d wager that the Miami trade has a lot to do with Luck’s retirement.  Indy was definitely the favorite to win that division prior to that.  Now it’s the Texicans to lose unless I’m grossly underestimating what Foles can do in Jax or Tanny can do in Ten.

 

Edited to add: None of that changes how bad of a trade it was from a value standpoint.  

Edited September 1, 2019 by BarleyNY

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Pointless comparison.  

 

Houston has a load of guys who can catch the ball.

 

 

Who cannot stay healthy. Fantasy football players know this VERY well... Fuller is a walking injury like Roscoe Parrish and Coutee also got injured and also inconsistent.

 

They need consistency, but the price for that is WAAAAAAAAY too damn high. Insane.

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The two trades were terrible.  Honestly, the whole Clowney give away is literally the worst NFL trade I can think of. 

 

I believe they could have gotten more for Clowney, but Clowney isn't that good.  People are still looking at him as this dynamite prospect, when in reality he's a 5 year vet who has never posted double digit sacks.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

They're not bums but they're not worth near what they gave up.  A real GM wouldn't have offered more than a 1st and maybe a 4th for them.

 

You have to take into account that these are not top 10 picks.  

[Buffalophil1948]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Clowney trade was a disaster as they let an all pro at a premium position leave in his prime and getting very little in return for what they gave up (a 3rd round pick, a former 1st round bust, and a bubble LB/DE).  They should've made up their mind on Clowney long ago when there were more teams in the market as they continued to lose leverage.

 

The only way the Tunsil trade works out is if he develops into a consistent elite player for at least the length of his contract and they compete for the Super Bowl.  Sills contributing at the same time would make the deal look like a good one in hindsight (I doubt it though).  Giving up more for Tunsil than Mack is crazy to me and BOB only chance at his job is winning now.

I agree whole heartedly, plus the didn't work out a contact right away. Tunsil could only be there 1 yr.

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I believe they could have gotten more for Clowney, but Clowney isn't that good.  People are still looking at him as this dynamite prospect, when in reality he's a 5 year vet who has never posted double digit sacks.

 

You have to take into account that these are not top 10 picks.  

 

I disagree.  You are selling Clowney short.  He has been borderline elite.  In the last 3 seasons Aaron Donald has the most tackles for loss in the NFL.  Second on that it’s is Clowney.  And he did that primarily as a 3-4 OLB.  And they got next to nothing for him. A (probably) late 3rd, a bust and a JAG.  That is in no way defensible. Heck, they could’ve gotten a third round comp pick just for letting him walk.

 

Now to the Miami trade.  Even considering that those picks are LIKELY TO BE in the 20s, it’s still a poor trade value-wise for the talent received.  2 firsts and a second for a very good, young LT and a middling WR is not great return.  Also consider this: What if Watson gets hurt again?  How many wins will AJ McCarron get them?  Those picks can't going to be a whole lot worse than the 20s, but there’s a chance that they’ll be a lot better. 

[Bray Wyatt]

Texans already have will fuller and keke coutee to compliment deandre, the stills part of the trade makes little sense to me

[Chicken Boo]

13 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I disagree.  You are selling Clowney short.  He has been borderline elite.  In the last 3 seasons Aaron Donald has the most tackles for loss in the NFL.  Second on that it’s is Clowney.  And he did that primarily as a 3-4 OLB.  And they got next to nothing for him. A (probably) late 3rd, a bust and a JAG.  That is in no way defensible. Heck, they could’ve gotten a third round comp pick just for letting him walk.

 

Now to the Miami trade.  Even considering that those picks are LIKELY TO BE in the 20s, it’s still a poor trade value-wise for the talent received.  2 firsts and a second for a very good, young LT and a middling WR is not great return.  Also consider this: What if Watson gets hurt again?  How many wins will AJ McCarron get them?  Those picks can't going to be a whole lot worse than the 20s, but there’s a chance that they’ll be a lot better. 

 

They gave up a lot.  No doubting that, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  Where would they be without Tunsil?

[C.Biscuit97]

11 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

Texans already have will fuller and keke coutee to compliment deandre, the stills part of the trade makes little sense to me

Fuller is made of glass and Stills is way better than Coutee.  I think Stills was a throw in anyways but he is a solid player. 

9 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up a lot.  No doubting that, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  Where would they be without Tunsil?

Weren’t they 11-5 last year?

[BarleyNY]

10 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

They gave up a lot.  No doubting that, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  Where would they be without Tunsil?

 

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Weren’t they 11-5 last year?

 

So I guess they’d be playing with the same LT that they had when they went 11-5.  And we haven’t even gotten into the fact that, if it was indeed such a big problem, why they didn’t do anything about it before that panic move.